From the New York Social Diary:

Inquiring minds also wanted to know if those girls on BRAVO, now known as "Real Housewives of New York City" are real socialites. Socialites, yes maybe; Society, no. But then, it could be argued successfully that there is no Society anymore. Socialites go out at night. Society stays home. One of the "Real" Housewives is a "real" countess LuAnn de Lesseps whose husbands great-grandfather Ferdinand de Lesseps, built the Suez Canal. (Tyrone Power played him in the American film version of his life.) The Countess de Lesseps, off-camera is a very nice woman, and is also a Native American.
Go to the link below to see what REAL NY Society is doing!

I can see why he was maybe not on best behavior completely due to Ramona being so late. I'm sure he was over tired.

HOWEVER. Screaming. Then pounding on someones $30.00 burger or even a burger that was a $1 who cares. Horrible manners.

I had to laugh when he did so badly at the evaluation. I agree. He's going to grow up to be a jerk. His parents are setting him up for major failure.

I watched this show for the first (and probably last) the other day at my sister's house. Oh my. When the show was over, I felt like I had just watched a National Geographic expose on a new species.

You could hear the gerbils on their wheels in these people's heads. I wonder if they ever experience a moment of peace and contentment.

How exhausting it must be to live those lives.

Joanna

So what exactly were these people "evaluated" on?

-From the posts, it doesn't seem to be manners, bank accounts, or taste.

Hmm. I want to laugh at France-waaa because it's funny, but he's 4 with kinda crappy parents, so I can't help feeling that we're calling the wrong people names.

It was LATE for a little guy, and even the best preschoolers have their bad days. I'm pretty sure there are definitely days when my sweet little girl is a total beast. In fact, I think it was yesterday...

LOL, the things you "miss" when you cancel cable TV... wow. $250K isn't a lot of money? I understand that it really comes down to BILLS; but I can't even feature an annual income of $250K. Our bills are considerably less (no cable TV! ;) ). the helpmeet has always maintained the only difference between Bill Gates and "people like us" are our bills. Clearly, he's the smaHtest man on the planet.

Our home isn't "finished" yet. We moved in when it was sheetrocked and we've done every single bit of the "finish" work ourselves, so I am TOTALLY cool with how hard it can be to make the place "look good" when you are dealing with major work... bear in mind that we didn't have to deal with plumbing/heating/electrical "upgrades". That sort of "infrastructure" is DEVASTATING when it comes to making things look nice. But it's the smaHt way to go about a rehab.. Sucks while you're doin' it, but in the big picture it's the system upgrade that will make or break your "renovation". (agree Kitch.?).

Cranky, bratty kids=cranky, bratty dogs. It's about ROUTINE and LIMITS. Set 'em and live by 'em, or DIE by 'em. Pretty simple.

I agree with chelone. I would never let my child act that way in a restaurant. I actually teach my children how to behave in a restaurant, and if they are too tired, they (and I) don't go. It's not really rocket science.

I can't really fathom their debt, if what has been speculated on this forum is true. I am very close to owning my home and being debt free...it's not easy, but at 30, I have to believe I will benefit from it in the future. Simon and Alex are going to be swimming in debt for years to come.

Just to be clear, I absolutely agree that the little guy should have been home in bed. At the very least, he should have been removed from the restaurant. Just don't think it was all his fault for acting that way. he's 4 and no one has taught him better.

On the one hand I feel like Luann should really spend more time with her kids - on the other hand, I think Alex and Simon should back off and not concentrate so ferociously on theirs!

I don't think that the person who said $250M said that it wasn't a lot of money...she (or he) said it wasn't a lot of money FOR THE LIFESTYLE THEY LEAD. We have a generous income, but trips to wherever to drop thousands on trendy cloths is not in the budget if we want to maintain our home and care for our child. They want to play with Paris Hilton. She makes millions annually, so in that little social world...$250M isn't much at all.

Now if you had no debt and didn't travel much, $250M would be a huge amount of money.

There is a huge difference between people like us and Bill Gates. Bill Gates had an idea. He risked his financial security time and time again to develop a product. Sometimes he won and sometimes he lost, but he didn't give up and in the end, he won big. I used to work with people like that all the time. My husband is like that. The ability to take the level of risk that they are comfortable with is pretty amazing. It's a unique talent and takes a very unique person. I personally didn't go into business myself because I'm not that type of person. I didn't feel comfortable taking that level of risk. That's the differnce between people like us and people like Bill. It's big!

If Luann's son were to elope with a housekeeper would he have to call his own mother mizzzzizzz DeLesepp???
And would her grandchildren have to sit up front with the driver???

My jaw drops when I hear people say things like, 'Bill Gates was just someone who was in the right place at the right time.' I have to say, he's also got far more going for him than being a risk taker : ) (As do the other amazing individuals (kids, at that) who founded those world-changing companies and amazing 'garage' startups : )

Those children should have been, nicely but firmly, taken in to the restroom and been informed on how they were to behave. I thought it was atrocious and that mom & dad stood by. I truly have never understood why some people think everyone wants to see their "darling children" control the crowd.

Lest you think am anti-children I am not. I have 11 children ( between 3 & 25) and frequently take them to dinner out. We go casual and very formal. I don't think there is ever been a time when some group or couple hasn't come to us and said "it has been a pleasure dining with your children tonight".

I would never allow my children to ruin someone else's evening out.

kmcg85,

I hadn't looked through the link you provided until today. Seems the Countess was photographed at the NOFA-NY (the Northeast Organic Farming Association of New York) benefit luncheon. Not surprised to see her there and expect Jill and Bethany are included somewhere in the website as well.

NO. Bill Gates is a really smart guy. But he isn't really any smarter than many of us. If I recall the case history corrrectly he (Microsoft) captitalized on a LEGAL loophole left open by IBM(?)? Good for him! but that does not a genious make, in my opinion.

Mr. Gates is no smarter than I am; his expertise is simply in a different field. If you stripped him and me naked and dropped us both into a remote location I'd bet dollars against doughnuts he'd fare not better that would I. He's successful and wealthy because he was shrewd and capitalized on a someone else's stupid oversight.

He ISN'T smarter than I am and there is no difference between our households, save the BILLS we pay monthly.

I'd bet you he would :) He'd take bigger risks, and has a mind that is geared to finding solutions quickly...so he'd have a better chance at making it longer than someone who is more routine oriented.

If you don't live with a guy like this...or know one well, you just won't understand. I clearly understand the difference because I have been around these types of people for a great deal of my career. I didn't say he was smarter, but his brain works differently, and he is wired differently which allows him to feel more comfortable taking risks than the average person.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

What makes you think I don't know "a guy like this", or "know one well"? I contend you presuppose too many facts not in evidence, Igloo.. And you underestimate the thoughtfulness behind calculated "risk taking" and how one may buttress one's self against future downturns with some circumspection before the deal is done.

Just something to chew on...

And I think I'm nuts!

I would guess you don't know anyone like BG because you aren't understanding the difference between him and you isn't the monthly bills ya'll pay.

There is a great deal of thoughtfulness behind risk taking, and I didn't say there wasn't, but it takes a special kind of person to make a Bill Gates...that's why there is only one of him. I have banked people like BG for years...and they're different, not always in a good way :) But different.

While BG may have his buttresses covered now, he didn't always. And if it was possible (it probably isn't) he's the type of guy to continue to "risk it all" for the reward of seeing his ideas come to fruition.

I've dealt with many high wealth personalities. Despite the fact that you want to say you and Bill are the same, the facts are...you're not :) If you spent a few days on the island together, you'd understand some of the differences. Something else to chew on.

And squirrel you are nuts dear :oP

And with all due respect Igloo, you have clearly underestimated the likes of me. If you think I don't understand the "big game"... think again. And think again after that.

As I said before, you are entitled to your opinion.

"...Amazing vocal rendition of Gilligans Island theme song in Latin"

That would be Insula Gilliganis. ;^)

The thing about "reality" shows is that the people featured on them are *suppsed* to MOL act like pretentious boors and leave themselves ridiculiouly open to criticism. The desired audience response as the theme song plays and they roll the credits at the end, is to sit back and think to yourself "Man, I am sooooo glad we're not like that."

Well, when you ladies get down into the guts of nitty gritty system programming, development, and engineering, alone, which involves a level of detail that most people don't even know exists, then I might consider that any assessment you make of Mr. Gates' smarts -- or comparison to your own -- has any validity.

At the very least, he is a genius in his own field. Honestly, do give some credit where due.

Put him down all you want, I'm sure he cares. And he's laughing all the way to the bank. While having a blast : )

I heard that Bill and his wife like to spend the evening doing puzzles.

I heard that too : ) Sounds like a lot of fun for them.

HW of NYC Reunion show is on right now. First question out of the box was about the state of Alex's home. She was shocked it was such a big deal. :-/

Just to be clear squirrel...I wasn't saying BG was a bad or good person (I think he seems relatively ok) but that he's different :) And I mean he's smarter, a bigger risk taker and a person who can deal with stresses the likes of which 99.9% of the world will never comprehend. And he does a nifty crossword in 17 seconds (that I probably couldn't finish LOL)

He may do what we like to say are "normal" things too :) Like puzzles with his wife, but he's a different kind of guy..in a world changing kind of way and there's nothing bad about that! I believe in a higher power...that does not make me Gahndi!

Any "bad" associated with the BG personality that I might have implied is just that while they're big risk takers, they're also incredibly intense people as well. DH risks millions at times. When all goes well it's great, when not so well...well he's grumpy times 20 LOL I'm not comparing him or his life to BG's...just that they have some similarities that I've seen in many business owners who are successful. It's all or nothing with these people, (men and women) and for those of us who like something in between...that's sometimes a challenge to work through! Add to that personality that everything you do is in the spotlight like BG...that's a lot to ask from a person and it takes a very strong person to deal with that type of life.

I (think I) totally agree, Igloo, different type of person to be able or willing to accomplish all he has. Not hearing anything about him being a good or a bad person, just slights on his 'real' intelligence, which one could assume is pretty out there, based on his life and technical abilities. Some people have trouble calling him a genius, for whatever reason. I believe what was being said above was more along those lines -- that he's not any smarter than some of the 'rest of us' or many of us (or yourselves!). It seemed you were saying that he simply has some unique personality traits that propelled him down that path. Certainly, he has, but many people are risk-takers. It takes a whole lot more than being a risk-taker or an ability to endure the hardships.

I just think it's silly for people to try to knock his intelligence down. Credit where due. And that is what I believe : )

Personality-wise, he's always been know to be one of the most polite people you could meet, from when he was a child. Looked like it, too, with that pie in his face!

Igloo- I didn't mention the puzzles in attempt to show commonality between his life and a "normal" one. I was only trying to lighten the conversation.

When conversations put an increased emphasis on a particular set of skills or achievements, I worry that other people may begin to buy into the bull that their skill sets are worth less because they are not as easily quantifiable.

I agree that some people are smarter, some are more talented, and some are just plain lucky. But each of us has amazing potential in our own area. -Which I think was Chelone's point. What an awesome world we live in! We can enjoy the talents and advances of others, and even contribute a bit of ourselves.

I don't value one talent, or even a combination of talents, over another. While I admire BG's strengths as a person, the contribution of a global technological advancement and hefty bank account don't compare to some truly amazing people I have had the privilege of knowing.

But seriously, the only way that I would think Bill was "normal" for doing puzzles would be if he had to climb under the table looking for the last piece while wondering if the dog ate it.

But maybe that means the dog is normal.

ok, Igloo, able to read your post better now : ) I see that you *do* appreciate his 'smarts' and that he is in a different realm, all his own, intelligence included. Whatever or however quantifiable that might be. They probably don't even have a test for the BGs of the world! That didn't come across previously.

And just to be clear, also, I'm not a BG groupie and am not placing more *value* on *his* own achievements, traits, skills, or know-how. But I do think being dismissive of, rather than being able to appreciate and acknowledge (like what PaintChips was saying) is in err. He is a truly amazing and interesting individual and life, in his own right, like him, what he does, or not.

And, hey, some of the finest individuals I know have four legs : )) And that's a fact, lol.

Very well said, paint_chips.

As an aside, and with all due respect to Bill Gates, he didn't create Microsoft all by his lonesome. It was an evolutionary process, composed of various talented and skilled contributors in their own right, including BG's partner Paul Allen, who convinced BG to drop out of Harvard and form the company now known as Microsoft. Gates and Allen had a contract with IBM, and in a time crunch purchased the rights to market an already functional operating system created by Seattle Computer Products called Q-DOS and then tweaked the Q-DOS code to suit IBM's needs. The SCP company that created Q-DOS included high school students. So there were multiple key players along that road, both before and after the company "Microsoft" was formed, and BG is no more solely Microsoft than Paul was the Beatles or Mick was the Stones. ;)

Saw most of the reunion episode last night Allison, it was a hoot ;D Missed the first part of the program that prompted this thread, will have to try to catch it again to see what I missed.

I agree that Francois is a bit annoying and his parents are beyond annoying but I think Ramona needs some serious meds. That eye rolling just sends me over the edge and her crass way of dealing with people makes me need meds.

How did we get on to Bill Gates? One funny note...I grew up just outside of Seattle and many years ago saw BG at a couple of clubs (if you can believe it). He seems like a great guy but his dancing moves could use some work. I don't think he needs to worry about it too much though...he was still quite the hit with the ladies (this is before his wife of course) :-)

I love it - on the Reunion show, the first thing they talked about was Alex's crappy house!

Whoa!

Bill is a smart guy. He was smart enough to capitalize on a really bonehead legal oversight, afterall!

The point I was trying to make is that, IN THE BIG PICTURE, the only thing that really differentiates workaday slobs (like me!) and Bill are the bills we pay. Stripped naked and forced to deal with having nothing... we'd be on equal ground and I'd fare just fine! why? because I, too, understand financial accounting and the importance of compounding interest. It's that simple.

Bill is a smart guy. I'm pretty smart, too! And for some banker to presume that because Bill is who he is, makes him "smarter" than I am is preposterous. Look at the banking industry carefully, my friends. NINJA loans? (no income, no job, no assets) but we'll loan you money for a HOUSE? What's up with that?

Bill and I live by the same "rules". Balance the checkbook to the penny and make smart choices, based on understanding COMPOUNDING interest and how it can work for you or destroy you.

Give me a break.

Not sure why this rant thread is on the discussions side -- and I've been fairly good about staying out of the fray (not my strongest suit by any means, LOL), but here I come barrelling in at the last minute. With my luck, I'll probably kill what has been a fairly amusing thread, LOL.

Anyhoo, Chelone I totally understand your point and generally agree, except for one thing. BG didn't start out rich. He worked at it (how he got there is a totally different topic -- some in my own household, ahem, DH, ahem, believe he stole his most successful computer programming ideas from Xerox and Apple and ran with it -- but then DH tends to be a fan of conspiracy theories). I think the point that others were trying to make is that his ability to launch and grow his business -- and amass an extreme fortune and even monopolize an industry that was already essentially monopolized when he arrived on the scene -- is not just about balancing the checkbook and understanding compounding interest. I understand compound interest and, when forced (LOL), can balance a checkbook. And I'm not too shabby on the career front, either. I have an artistic bent, am good with colors and enjoy music. But seriously, I'm no Mozart, no Lichtenstein, and certainly no Bill Gates. If I were in the same league as any of these individuals, you can bet I would not have spent the past year planning to reno a 1964 split level in the Orange County 'burbs piecemeal over the next 10 years. LOL.

daisy...I loved the reunion show too! Especially when Bethenny wanted the social climbers own up to what they're doing. My favorite line was from Luann who told them before you buy any more [insert deisnger name here] you should take that money and finish your house. That's what I've been waiting for people to say to them. Stop buying the "high 5 figure but less than 6" designer clothes and put it towards renovation. Just think what $8000 could have bought in a reno project that was wasted on a Pebbles Flinstone gown for opening night at the Met. And she can't even wear the dress again.

Ramona acts very nervous whenever the cameras are on her, that may be part of why she is so hyper. Doesn't help that her Botox injections are making her eyebrows rise up so high on her forehead she always has this surprised look on her face. The other "housewives" seem more at ease with the camera.

Can anyone tell me why Bethenny is even on this show? I'm glad she is, she's my favorite...but she's not a housewife. Are they hoping she'll marry on the show so they can film the wedding like they did with the OC housewife?

I am trying to bite my tongue!!!! LOL

Well, I still wanna know when Bill Gates is going to send me money. I mean, I forwarded the stupid email that told me he'd reward me for doing so.

(j/k -- just in case anyone can't tell!) ;-D

LOL Jen. Sorry I revived this thread last night - just thought some might not know the Reunion show was on and hour early than the regular season shows. :-/

They mentioned Season 2 several times - does anyone besides me think if Alex and Simon are on the show again, they won't talk about moving up quite so much? Honestly, if they watch the reunion show, I don't think they'll be back. They obviously do not have anything in common with the other ladies and got dissed by them all last night.

It was the first I had heard about Alex's nude photos.....I so do NOT want to see those. She scares me enough with clothes on! lol

the reunion show was a real laugh riot...

I fear Simon will be asked back for season 2 without Alex

--- JK

flying flower - I love the Flinstones comment!! Too funny.

decorpas - I think Simon truly is the housewife in that family.

Right on, twingirlsmom. I unwittingly picture Simon wearing a tiara and a sash across his chest that reads Diva in glittery gold letters. Oh, the horror.

I read on another board that Simon works for a hotel in NY that he actually wears a uniform for. They see him on the side alley constantly smoking cigarettes.

It sounds like they do really live beyond their means. CLASSIC.

I saw her photos when googling their names for the real estate deal. Cobble Hill Blog is where I found this quote (and where the nudie photos are linked and yes my hand went spastic and clicked on them. If nude photos can be art or tasteful or in 'celebration of her post birth body', these aren't even close, imho. Scary indeed and doesn't even look like a pro photographer's work. *shudder* )
OK, back to the real estate, this is on that neighborhood blog:

Comment from Hank
Time: April 16, 2008, 9:02 pm

Yes, they are that shallow and unsophisticated. He makes a living by torturing his employees and providing lousy service and dirty rooms in a semi-reputable hotel. He gets a lot of his travel perks for free. Theyre leeches. Their travels to St. Bartholomews is free to him, not his boss. That titanium credit card he flashes? Its corporate. The townhouse? two tenants, and has been under remodeling for the last two years. They are poseurs, and hardly in the same class as the others in the show. They make Donald Trump look like a poet laureate. At least his children are well-behaved at the dinner table.

If they're renting out to tenants, that's going to go a long way toward the mortgage. If they played their cards right it might come close to paying the entire mortgage payment. But then I don't see how they could have tenants there in the condition it's in. (Mine would be screaming, lol!) Someone else mentioned property records indicate deed is in his name and a female who shares his last name but not Alex - perhaps his mom?)

But real estate prices are all relative to the location. 2 million in Chicago will get you a new 3 br, 2 ba, 2500 sq ft condo in the elite Gold Coast area. That same amount of money in the 'burbs would get a really nice crib ;D In my hometown (small, remote and rural) it would buy thousands of acres easily. But then the income is relevant too. Higher in the city, less so in the 'burbs if employment is in the burbs and no commuting is done, much less so in the boonies.

flyingflower:"My favorite line was from Luann who told them before you buy any more [insert deisnger name here] you should take that money and finish your house."

Yes! I knew I liked her!

I totally missed the reunion show, as is the story of my life, and hope to catch a re-run STAT.

Okay, going back up to finish reading, lol.

What ever Simon/alex say or do, Ramona always upstages them with some temper tantrum and walking out. Yikes!

Twingirlsmom,

No doubt about it. And he makes a great one! He loves to shop. I hope he can at least play tennis, so next season we can have the Romona versus Simon match.

Now that's a show:-)

Not sure if this was mentioned yet (I still need to go back and read all the replies). But, they didn't actually pay $2m for that dump. The screen caption said something about the average price of a brooklyn brownstone being that much. According to public record, they paid around $1m for it. Also, their son goes to public school. Like Bethenny said last night, they are "all show and no go." In other words, they are posers.

I love this show and can't wait for next season.

auntjen - that visual made me feel a little bit sick! Poor Simon, he just wants to be one of the girls :-)

decorpas - if Simon and Alex are back next season, I have a feeling good ol' Simon will get lots of airtime. I loved how Jill asked him why he was at the reunion show since it was supposed to be the housewives. I love my husband but both of us would be ready to throttle the other one if we were that glued to each other. We have some differing interests (he=sports...me=this website).

Alex naked...yuck! There's an ugly idea to consider...bleh bleh bleh (I have to go wash out my brain now LOL)

Chelone...We will have to agree to disagree, but please, when debating, don't stoop to insults. I'm not "some banker" who invented NINJA loans. I was a highly skilled private and commercial banker, and then moved into supervising mortgage lending. To correct your description though, that's no income, no job, and assets. It's a loan program that should be used for people with high net worths, significant assets, and no need to verify income due to substantial liquid assets. It's not a program designed to get poor smucks into debt using the little equity they have left in their homes so that you can then take their property. That would actually be called a predatory loan, and Chelone, I made a significant name for myself FIGHTING predatory lending. I taught other banks how to review their lending portfolios to ensure that their lenders weren't doing predatory lending, and how to design loan programs to help the poor that didn't end up getting them into debt that would destroy them.

When debating, stick to the subject please, and don't insult my work. I'm very very proud of the work I have done. Many are in homes that they wouldn't ever have had a chance to own specifically because of me Chelone...I don't push people into a life of ruin. And would never have banked the Alex's of this world.

The BG's of the world :) Yes I would and did, and that's why I can say I have a good understanding of how they tick. But we won't worry about that again.

Now back to naked Alex....bleh!!!

"(he=sports...me=this website)"

LOL!