One other variation on #4 that you may already have discarded would be to do the closets flanking the entrance to the bedroom and then move the bath and bedroom over. This would give you more space for windows in the bedroom and also a wider wall for the bed to go on.

Just a thought...

As you move the design around, you might want to consider that you can place your interior walls at a 45 degree angle. This might solve some of your problems, and would enhance the lines of your ceiling.

This occurs to me especially in version 5, where your bedroom space is very cut up. You will have three sharp 90-degree corner walls protruding into the space. Not very restful.

Just a thought.... Although a sitting room is a great idea on paper, in reality it often goes unused -- especially when it's right next to a living room.

In version 4, the little hallway to the larger closet seems like a waste of space. I see why you did it -- the windows. What if you used three windows instead of two? You would have a window in the closet area, but you'd gain a lot of closet space. You could move the HVAC closet to the interior corner of the closet. Also, there is no reason to have two doors in that closet. You're just wasting storage space. You could certainly put windows in both those closets.

I know what people think... windows in closets? But how nice to have natural light when you're in a walk-in closet!

As you design, consider what the outside of the house will look like. In version 4, you will only have one small window, and it will be off-center.

In Version 4, if you switch the bidet and the shower, you can put a window in the bidet. Don't worry about people looking in.... that's what blinds are for.

Then you can put another window (for balance) in the other closet.

Are you having fun yet?

MClarke - I just tried the whole 45 degree thing and got something very interesting. DH really likes it, but I'm not sure. Part of me loves it, but part says Hmmm... And if we 'peak' the ceiling, that means each wall will basically be a 'house shape' - which could be really cool or kind of 'wrong' -- what do you think? And the central sleeping area would be 'cornerless' -- Is that relaxing? Or would it make you feel 'exposed' or 'on stage'?

As to the exterior views, the bottom is the front of the house, so that's important. Windowless or symetrical both work for that wall. The top of the floorplan is the back yard, which also needs to be nice from the outside. The right side of the floor plan is over the garage close to the property line and will almost never be viewed by us or our guests, so IMO, that's much less important.

Since a few people mentioned it, this BR is on the second floor, and the Living Room is below on the ground floor. Of course, the sitting area is likely to be low-use anyway... Any better uses for the space?
Now I'm getting dizzy!

How about a general vote? Do you'all prefer the plans with the sleeping area in the southeast corner? Or the plans with the sleeping area in the center of the larger space?

Version #6

Version #7

Wow, Version 6 is really interesting. I think I like it... I know what you mean about the "house shaped walls". I think it could be kinda cool.

Do you have access to a CAD program that will show you a 3D "walkthrough"?

I keep meaning to ask you. What is that little rectangle marked "coffee"? Is it a coffee table?

In Version 6, the sitting room and office don't have actual doors that close. Is this deliberate?

The wall where the armoire and the sitting room loveseat are back-to-back... what if you made that a half-wall? This would make the sitting room more a part of the bedroom, and would allow the light from the sitting room window to come into the bedroom, which would be nice.

I think version 7 is the best thus far - but it's still not quite 'there' for me, but getting better!

So far #7 is my favorite.

- The 'Coffee' bar would be an undercounter beverage fridge (mainly for wine), a bar sink, and a small coffee machine.

- I will need doors for the office - It's where I work and I'm not neat with my papers... Not sure what type to go with on Version #6, but sure I can find something.

- Don't really care about a sitting room door in that plan because the traffic flow would alert us to visitors in time ;-). Love the half-wall suggestion there.

- And sorry - no CAD to explore how the space might feel...

- On the Version #7 school -- I agree that the Sitting Room would be low-use space, and that the main bedroom area is large enough to have a sitting area inside. What else would be a good use for the space?

- Also, for some reason, I really like the bathroom in that center section. Probably the tub placement under a sloped wooden slat ceiling and a great storage armoire dirrectly opposite the door. But if I go with the corner bedroom and center bath, that leaves the bottom section for my office - so entering through the bedroom.

Well, I have to say the thing that I don't like about any of the plans is the closet placement. I really like having my closet open up to my bath. It really makes a lot of sense to me to have all of my clothing right in the area where I am bathing and showering. It just doesn't make sense to me to have to go out into the bedroom to access the closet. You have so much room I don't think that humidity would be a problem.

I liked 1 and I like 7. I hate the bathroom right off of the entry hall...because it will become a guest bath if you have it there. I also don't think it's terribly romantic to enter your bedroom through the lou.

Igloochic - There's no door to the bathroom from the hallway - only from the bedroom. Does that change your opinion at all?

And Terriks - Where we live, humidity is a huge issue and closets that open directly off the bath tend to be frowned upon. Proximity is good though.

The hot water heater should be as close to the bathroom as possible, IMO. The farther away it is means much more water line $$, but also you will need to run water a longer time to get hot water for the shower.

Actually I think #6 is very cool in that it is different, but I think it doesn't have enough windows for a master bedroom. If you did as somebody suggested a halfwall to the sitting area or no wall at all there it would work.

I still wouldn't want the office in the bedroom though. I guess I look at our bedroom as our place to relax and for romance and not work, which an office there implies to me, so from that viewpoint I would still have to pick #7 as the office takes away the retreat feeling that I think otherwise your bedroom wing will have.

Any chance you could keep the cool bedroom by shifting things over some and have a corner bath where the office is and move the office out? Or put a closet in the corner where the office is and put the office length wise in the walk through and use part of that and the lower left closet for the bath?

Okay... in number 6 ...

What if you shifted the bed one quarter turn counter clockwise, so that the head of bed is against the wall of your office. Then the TV armoire can go opposite.

THEN the dresser can go up against the loveseat in the sitting area... and you can remove the wall completely and have the sitting room become part of the bedroom. Then you can have one big window to your lovely back yard, and lots of light.

I agree, put the HVAC in the closet nearest the bathroom; that would be your husband's closet, right? LOL... and you'll have a larger office. Or a larger window seat.

I love this.

One thing I like with #6 is the relation of the coffeebar to the sitting area and the bed. Maybe something to keep in mind as you are shifting things around.

Also I wouldn't worry so much about humidity and accessing a closet from the bath. With the great new and quiet exhaust fans (which you'd need anyways in the bath) this has not been an issue at all for us. I stuck our weather thing that we take with us to the track to check humidity in there when we moved in as I was worried about it and it has not been any different than the one we have in the living room.

Oh, wait... In number 6 --

If you shift the bed clockwise instead of counter-clockwise, you can put the armoire against the wall of your office. The dresser would still back up to the loveseat -- and you would get a better view of the window to the backyard from your bed. So nice to wake up in the morning to a pretty view.

This also works better because the foot of the bed should always be closer to the door than the head of the bed.

Is the coffee bar a unit that you already own?

Looks so easy on paper!

One of the difficulties with #6 is that the headboard wall needs to be a minimum of 11 feet long to accommodate our king-sized bed and night tables. I can 'pinch' the corners of the closets to get that longer wall, but can't push back the diagonals between the Sitting Area and Office without squeezing out the walkway between the two, eliminating the door to the office, or making the south (top) window too narrow. What I *can* do on #6 is rotate the bed and armoire 90 degrees clockwise, then perhaps have the coffee bar with a pair of columns be a built-in separater between the sitting area and sleeping area.

Moving the water/HVAC closet sounds great (and IS, for hot water purposes), except that code requires that gas-fired units need an exterior wall for ventilation, and an access door with 30" of clear work space. Moving it to Hubby's closet would take out too much useful space (he's got more clothes than I do!) plus require vents on the front of the house. I could move it to the center of the south wall, but that eliminates the center window there...

What do you all think about having the sleeping area in the center of the space? Do you think that would feel weird?

What do you all think about having the sleeping area in the center of the space? Do you think that would feel weird?

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean having the bed in the center of the room? With space behind the headboard?

sweeby - I don't know about your area but code last I checked in Austin (late last year) and in our new locale they just required exterior venting and through the roof is fine. Doesn't need to vent at the wall. Although it may be different where you are at.

Not sure about the sleeping area in the center of the space? Do you mean floating? If so I wouldn't like it.

Don't mean 'floating' with space all around -- I mean like shown in layout #6, #2 or #5. I guess they're not really 'floating' -- But somehow, it seems the bed in not on a 'real wall' in those layouts -- more like a partition.

My main concern is light. Would it be too dark?

If you have a window in a seating area where no one sits, you are wasting the view and wasting the light.

Oh, and something I've been meaning to mention. You say this would be over the garage...?

Does it get cold where you live?

If it does, and if the bathroom is over the garage, you might want to consider splurging on heated floor tiles. Our bathroom is over the garage, and the floor gets sooooo cold in the winter. We bought the house in August, and this never occurred to us.

Carry on...

I wouldn't care about the bed agains what you consider not a real wall as long as it is not the bathroom wall. Ie quiet walls are OK. However I don't like the cave like feel of the bed in #2 and #5 and I would prefer to have a bedroom to the backyard vs. the street and something nice to look at which your backyard is awesome and with windows from the bedroom would give it a treehouse feel. My first house in Austin was that way. It was built on sloped lot and the main floor was the 2nd floor. Backyard full of pecans and full windows along the back wall. Felt like living in a tree house.

Here's the one Hubby's crazy about. In fact, he likes it so much he's willing to give up some closet space and move the units into the garage below. To answer your question about climate -- it's pretty warm here, and we'd insulate the heck out of the garage ceiling. (Spray foam)

Version #8

Advantages:
Interesting plan - 'Wow' appeal,
Ceilings follow roofline, so intuitive 'fit'
Nice nooks and window alcoves - cozy spots,
Wonderful play of light throughout suite with windows on all four sides,
Nice office and sitting with good use of space,
Good TV sight lines (in armoire)
Nice setting for Beverage Center,
Bed is well-sited relative to views & natural light

Disadvantages:
Would diagonal room with 'house-shaped' walls and no corners feel weird?
Closets doors far from bath
Small entryways to closets - (but need wall for bed)
Have to walk through bedroom to get to office (but never have clients in office)

So what do you'all think about #8?
Too far out there? Brilliant? Weird?

I really like it, but then, I would, wouldn't I? LOL....

The reason I originally mentioned 45 degree angles is because I have several in my house, and I love them. Not just for aesthetics and "wow" appeal, but because they add grace and they do improve the flow.

Ninety degree angles are artificial and counterintuitive; we like to walk in curves. But don't get me started on THAT...

You could have larger closet doors if you dispensed with that window seat. You already have two window seats.

What kind of tub will you have? Could you create a door from the tub area directly into the closet? That might be weird, but if you need the closet accessible to the bathroom, this would be convenient. The door would have to open into the closet.

I think it will be spectacular.

Oh, and my son wants me to ask what kind of design software you're using.

I like it, BUT I don't like having to walk around the bed to get to the closets. It is one thing to not have direct access to the closet from the bath, but another to have to walk around too much to get to them. I can't think of a good solution to it right now for both. You could provide access for one if you could move the HVAC and maybe a door closer to the right window seat and move the dresser down. Maybe pull the two closets into a point so you get one corner in the room. The front windows could still be made to work.

I don't think you need all the window seats either. The one on the right side is probably the only one I would keep. The top one is sort of redundant with the seating area. The bottom one I could see the use for as for getting ready, but not sure you'd want to do that in front of the window.

And again I wouldn't want an office in the bedroom - not sure about that for re-sale, but it is just a room that could be used for anything so not detrimental imo.

One more try incorporating your great suggestions...

Lyfia - your point about walking around the bed to get to the closets was right on target, and rotating the bed back improved it greatly. It's still not that close, but not that annoyingly inconvenient either.

We kept MClarke's previous suggestion for a half-height divider from the sitting room, and switched out the coffee bar to a built-in cabinet with a 'TV Lift' for a flat-screen TV (I like to watch TV in bed...) keeping the open aspect and positioning the foot of the bed at the room entry, which is very psychologically comforting for me. Somehow just rotating the bed really increases my comfort level with the whole plan --

And I have to admit that you're both right about the excessive window seats - though I've been 'fighting' for one in this house for years - still with no success! So we dropped the one at the top of the plan and put the coffee bar there instead, which seems just right. Handy to the sitting area, bedroom and office.

And my "design software"? LOL! It's just MicroSoft Excel! I just build a square grid and draw in my shapes, then copy and paste into Paint for printing. Talk about primitive...

Version #9

Ok I like 9 :) But I'd like to play with the bathroom alone please?

Can we move the toilets to an outside wall so you have a flusher buffer? I don't like the toilet to be on the bedroom wall personally, I don't like a shower on that wall either because I don't want to hear the noise, but in my bedroom I had to put the shower on that wall...so I spent some good money on soundproofing, which I'd advise in any new walls anyhoo around a bathroom.

I feel like you've given yourself a fabulous room...and I love the sitting room being open, and the office closed, but the bathroom leaves you little space to work in, including at the counters.

Looks good and I like the flow of several things better now. I hear you on watching TV in bed. We do that everyday.

I like several things of this better now. The flow works good in the bedroom. I do agree the bath might need a little more work in terms of vanity space. Especially for your price point, A luxury would be more than the standard 3'.

Things I like about the flow. Bed angled for view of backyard and further away from the bathroom, coffebar access from all areas is good and a nice space to look out when fixing it. Also the new bed placement allow full access to the HVAC and away from the noise it makes.

Microsoft Excel!!!? Brilliant. Where did you get the little sofas and chairs and sinks and stuff?

Dumb question here. Now that you have a TV lift, what is the armoire for? Not for clothes, since you have those two wonderfully huge closets...

I would still (sorry to beat a dead horse) omit the window seat between the closet doors, so that you can have larger doors to the closets.

I doubt that you will ever actually sit in that window seat; sitting between two doors is psychologically unsettling. You will probably want to stand in front of that window, since it's your "window to the street" and you'll want to see the street from time to time. But for sitting and contemplating? Probably not.

What is your next step? Are you hiring a contractor?

Oh as for the toilet and shower I think no matter what you'd want to soundproof those since one is to the open area below and one to the bedroom.

Oh and if you or DH will build the TV console see if you can do it so it swivels so you can watch from the sitting area too. They also make great wall mount arms for LCD and plasmas that you can swing out if you rather put one on the wall where the armoire is. I saw lots of it when I went to the Consumer Electronics show in Vegas a few months ago. I like to lay on the side so the TV at a bit of an angle wouldn't bother me. We placed ours in a corner just for that reason as DH is the same way.

mclarke - she is married to the contractor - Aren't you jealous - I know I am.

The toilet and shower are 20 feet away from the bed and above a garage with plumbing on a wall that is only shared with a hallway. Do you really think noise will be a problem? The Living Room will be more for entertaining as we already have a fabulous great room at the heart of the house -- so it's doubtful the two rooms will really be used at the same time.

I'm curious what you'd do with the bathroom Igloo -- (Are you up for a design challenge?) The overall space is 12' x 16', give or take a few inches. The ceiling is 8' tall on the hallway side, beginning to slope at the line just before the sinks, down to about 5' at the window by the tub. I was planning to do the ceiling in stained beadboard or planks, and thought it might have kind of a 'cozy attic' vibe. The 'storage' piece I have in mind would be a gorgeous freestanding antique furniture piece - functional, but also a key design element. (I like the way it's straight-ahead when you walk in the bathroom door - a real 'room-like' vibe versus a 'bathroom' feel.) But your point about the counterspace is valid though... Could be the better solution would be to have traditional vanities with tall storage cabinets and larger counters. But I do have my heart set on a freestanding tub...

MClarke - The Airmoire is, I admit, pointless. (Linens?) But it exists and we've been schlepping it around this house for 7 years because we had no place to put it! I've got to at least include it in the plan.

I thought the seat would be good by the closets for putting on shoes, etc. The closet doors could still be 24" wide, which is adequate. Of course, we could sit on the bed - it's right there, and larger doors would feel more gracious.

And Lyfia's right -- The poor contractor has already been lined up. But he does wonderful work and the price is right ;-)

If you don't need the armoire in the bedroom you could use it in place of a built in cabinet in the bath.

It was kind of funny I just opened this thread right after being annoyed with hearing DH taking a shower and wonder what he was doing to make so much noise as I'm sitting here 30+ ft away and at least two walls in between that houses our closet. It is amazing how sound travels with hard floors and tall ceilings. I don't think you have to go to great lengths to sound proof, but maybe a double layer of sheet rock on the wall to the living and to the bedroom wouldn't hurt, or foam insulation, or that new sheetrock that is used for sound proofing. Costs about 4x normal sheet rock, but if you only used a few sheets ...

If our house hadn't already been sheetrocked when we bought it I would have done the sound proof sheetrock instead we are considering spraying in foam for our toilet room though ours is much closer. ~12 ft from head of the bed. I don't really hear anything, but flushing there, but I'm scared to wake DH as he is such a light sleeper if I need to go at night.

It's funny, but our shower is on the same wall as our headboard, and I can barely tell when it is on. My husband gets up earlier than me, and the shower has never woken me up. I can't remember if we put any insulation in there or not.

Sweeby-a word of warning about the coffee bar. If you and DH have different schedules one will be woken up every day by the sound of coffee. And if you have one of those grind and brew things the one in bed will somersault out of bed and trip over moving boxes spraining 2 toes. Ask me how I know. Though the handy access to the wine the nite before was nice.

Can you add a door from the bath into the closet adjoining for the earliest riser?

Somehow I can't picture the view coming down the hall into the bedroom. Seems like you would see part of a cabinet and a column? How about a fireplace with 2 cozy chairs-double sided for the bedroom too? Or is that too 80's?

Your MBR looks so great I'm reluctant to mention another thing that may or may not be a factor, but since bebetokids brought up the noise issue, I'll go with another--the thermastat. In our previous home (built as our dream), I'd always wanted a sitting area off the MBR, especially since we both love to read in the evenings and early AM. But for sleeping we always like to have it cool in the bedroom...which then makes the sitting room too cool to be cozy since it isn't a separate room with a door. So the early bird (me) who got up while DH was sleeping went to another room that was warmer. The light also shone into the bedroom area so if someone stayed up later (DH), that was an issue. Of course, there are other areas of the house that can be used for those things, but when you build a large master suite, you kind of hope it will be the perfect spot.

Now these may not be issues for your lifestyle, but something to consider. I know you're planning to work on the bathroom, and you might consider adding a sit-down vanity area in addition to the sink area. I never thought I'd use that until we had one, and love it, even though I only use it for 10 min at a time. Having said all this, I have found that you really can be happy with however it turns out and adjust to it.

I love this board! Every time I post a design puzzle, I get such useful comments, and the design gets so much better --

As far as schedules go, DH and I both work from home and have similar natural sleep-wake cycles, so the waking each other up issue won't be too bad. (The image of the 'grind and brew' alarm clock had me giggling though...) The closet next to the bath will be DH's, and I'm the earlier riser, so a door there wouldn't get used by us. If you all think it's important for resale, we could put one in and just 'closet over it' on the back side.

As for preferred thermostat settings, I've been on the short end of that stick for the entire length of our marriage! DH is very hot blooded, and his standard line is that he 'can only take off so much and I can always add a sweater' -- to which I can only reply with a wink that he could take off a little more... ;-) You're right that the sitting area will stay bedroom cool -- but my office can get a bit warmer, and that's my 'escape space' anyway.

Well - It sounds here like no one is loving the bathroom... Anyone want to take a stab at it? My design requirements are:

- Two separate vanity areas (his and hers)
- Shower room (prefer NOT all clear glass)
- Toilet room with separate toilet and bidet
- Focal-point tub (strongly prefer freestanding)
- Ample storage space, but not necessarily in vanity drawers.

Again, the bath space is 12 x 16, windows on the north wall starting about 3 1/2' off the ground, ceiling sloping down to about 5' at the wall. Design-wise, the house is a mix of rustic and elegant, very masculine overall, woodsy, with a touch of Arts & Crafts, Oriental and Victorian. I want beadboard ceilings in most of the master suite, and am a confirmed 'tile junkie' when it comes to bath design.

Have at it! --

Sweeby - I think the bath is fine, just that now that you have the master worked out, it just doesn't seem as wow.

terriks - I can only wish ours was that way. Our old house I couldn't hear it either. Of course the master there had only 8ft ceilings and the master bath was smaller so I wonder if it has something to do with open space to allow the sound to travel. I was sitting in our GR when I heard it. One other difference is whe have the glass shower on the sides instead of a tub/shower combo with shower curtain and I wonder if that makes a difference too.

Now onto the Bathroom Challenge! Here are a bunch of versions I've drawn up, including some that have been rejected and why.

The big challenge that I'm running into is the drop in ceiling height to about 5' on the bottom (window) wall, which to me means that's tub space, not vanity space.

Core question -- In a high-end luxury bath, how much vanity space should each person have? At a minimum? ideal? What about with a separate furniture storage piece?

Can the Fabulous Furniture Piece ("FFP") migrate elsewhere? Can the FFP take the place of the orphaned armoire in the main bedroom area?

If you can move the FFP out, then maybe you can leave the tub centered by the window (it really DOES need to be there, for both form and function's sake). And then the two sinks can be side by side along the left wall.

The sinks would have a common counter space and storage underneath.

I don't know your style preferences, but here's one example:

That's a pretty vanity MClarke - but we'de really prefer separate his & hers pieces to avoid my 'counter creep'... Plus, having one long vanity on the left wall puts one person using a vanity under a lower ceiling. That's why I had to X out two of the 'why don't you try' options on the bottom.

Do you think the two 5' vanities in the top left option are too small?

What about the 8' + 5' vanities in the top right plan? That doesn't give me my FFP (which doesn't exist - the armoire does, but wouldn't be right for the bath) but the sight lines from the bathroom door would still be attractive (the main reason for my longed-for FFP).

Sweeby asked: "Do you think the two 5' vanities in the top left option are too small?"

No, I think they're fine. I think that if you do need separate vanities, that this option is probably best.

Remember, though, that you will have two vanity mirrors exactly opposite each other, creating that "infinity" effect... which could be weird, or cool, depending on your preference.

Infinite mirrors? Yuck!
I'd rather have 'counter creep' on a single vanity. Even DH seems not to mind now that I've improved about keeping my stuff hidden...

I ended up adding another foot to the bathroom (isn't it nice to be able to do that?) to get the vanity length, but I'm liking this. Tell me you'all like it too!?

Just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone here who helped develop the final plan. It's SO much better than the originals, and like usual, it was your comments and suggestions that drove the improvements.

You folks rock!

Sweeby - intrigued by your angled design for your master suite. We are in the early stages of planning a garage/suite addition ourselves. Do you have any images of the finished project you'd be willing to share - as well as any feedback you would have done differently as you progressed through the project? Thanks!

I'd like to see finished pictures also - probably "again," since I bet you posted. I was going to suggest having outdoor access to the HVAC/water heater closet instead of through the bedroom or closet. Guess it's too late now!

Sadly, 'City Hall' killed it. Absolutely Dead... Very long story which I won't go into, but the net-net was that we couldn't add any square footage to the existing. We grieved for a while - OK, I grieved, Hubby sulked. Then came up with a new plan and are mid-way through. I'll post the new floor plans when I get some down time --

That's too bad, but glad you moved to Plan B.

Sorry to hear that! Looking forward to the alternative plans. Thanks for the response!

We are on the framing of the walls. So glad I read all of the input from your posts we were able to shift the closet against the bathroom wall abs square it slightly. This will give a direct lighting from the sitting area it lined up with the window going into the closet. Now we have two options for the bed. This room is an addition to a 50 year old home on our ranch and the sitting window faces the woods over a hardwood forest thank all of you for jump starting our thought process. It working out well. COACH