I have a counter-depth refrigerator which was necessary because of space issue. A regular-sized refrigerator would protrude into walkway too much. From my experience a counter-depth refrigerator with a family would be way too small. We are only two and manage because I also have a refrigerator drawer on the island. I would be totally lost without a refrigerator in the garage when entertaining.

I did a 10 cubic foot refrigerator as my only refrigerator with a family of three easily. I'm actually thinking of doing it again when we remodel this kitchen (different house) and we are a family of four now. Obviously everyone is different, but I find I just grow science experiments and waste food in bigger refrigerators.

I'd go counter depth. I really like how slightly smaller appliances make a space feel so much bigger. I have been happy every time I have shrunk an appliance's footprint.

Georgy - My current refrigerator is 21 cu ft and does work well for us. The cd one I'm considering is 20 cu ft. I have yet to see it IRL though.
I could purchase a larger counter depth (really like the Electrolux ones), but I'd have to replace the upper cabinet. I don't have a problem with that, but since I can't add panels (remember I'd have to drop to a 17 cu ft) I don't see the point of replacing the cabinet, you know?

Even the idea of someday flipping the cabinets (if we kept them when we replace counters) and putting them on the end, I'd need to replace the upper cabinet 'again' for a deeper one if I were going to pull it foward. Lovely can of worms. :)

Crl - Wow, 10 cu ft! I've seen some skinny look refrigerators and really do like the look! I sometimes wonder if we could go smallers, but will refrigerators ice if you pack it too full from the lack of air circulation? I can't see us needing too much bigger than what we currently have.

This post was edited by sheesharee on Sun, Mar 2, 14 at 2:49

Can you move the fridge to the end of that cabinet run? That would give you more flexibility in using panels or not and the size of the fridge and give you a nice length of counter rather than two little bits.

My general impression is that refrigerators and freezers are more efficient if they are fairly full. But I'm definitely not an expert. The appliance forum people are so on top of that kind of thing; I would ask over there.

Just for kicks, I'm linking the 10 cubic foot model we had. Loved it.

Here is a link that might be useful: LG 10 cubic foot refrigerator on Amazon

Lascatx - Since we won't be replacing the countertops we can't flip the cabinets. Someday, when we do a full remodel, I'd like to do that.

What is the width and height of the opening? What is the distance to the opposite counter?

As you probably know, there are a few refrigerators with nicer looking side panels (either stainless or at least nicer looking plastic) and some that come with stainless steel add-on panels.

Crl - I'll head to the appliance forum. Thanks for linking to the fridge. It's cute!

Gooster - It's 36" W and 69" H. Do you mean the distance to the island? It's 47" from countertop to countertop. The cabinets are 24" D and counters are 25" D.

What's this about not being able to add panels to a CD fridge above 17cu.ft.? Here's a 23.3 cu.ft.GE counter-depth fridge that accepts panels - the first brand I checked - that's bigger than what you have now and would fit in. I'm sure there's others as well (plus pricier true built-in units that leave no gaps whatsoever, but don't think that's what you want)

Here is a link that might be useful: GE PZS23KPEBV (black trim) or PZS23KPEWV (white trim)

I didn't want but ended up with a CD fridge and I find it is fine for normal activities, but tight for party situations so we bought a small supplemental fridge for the basement. We use it for beverages and such when necessary, but otherwise not. If you don't have a CD fridge then putting the side panels and no front panels looks fine.

Why not remove the cabinets to the left of the fridge to make room for a larger cd bridge, then put in narrower cabinets at the end? I like cd refrigerators and wish I could afford one myself.

I regret getting a stainless fridge, FYI. They hide nothing, require constant cleaning, scratch easily, and mine is only two years old and already has on drip stain I cannot remove and rust spots.

Definitely do panels. They're not that hard to make and you'll thank yourself later for keeping the extra space in the fridge.

We have CD bottom freezer refrigerator in our kitchen. We are 2. There is more than enough room in the frig section for daily use. When entertaining it does get tight. The issue we had was with the freezer being too small. I sometimes cook in bulk. We purchased a small frostless upright freezer which we keep in our basement.

We only needed a side panel on one side since the other side is a wall. Ours does stick out a little even though we went with deeper cabinets above it. It really does not bother me. To be perfectly honest, I was just happy to have a nice beautiful cabinets and a nice kitchen.

We've had SS for 7 years. I have no regrets with SS and would purchase SS again.

Lee - When I said panels I’m talking about wood panels along the sides to box it out; not cabinet panels for the front.
I was running into problems with the width. Between allowing room for the clearances and the panel width (isn’t typical width ½”?), I don’t have enough space. I would if I’d be willing to drop down to a 17 cu ft (the one I'm talking about is from Samsung), but that’s too small for our growing family. The width of the one in the link is 35 ¾”.

Annie - “If you don't have a CD fridge then putting the side panels and no front panels looks fine.”
Even though the fridge will stick out past the panels?

Tibbrix - That would create issue with the countertop and we need to keep the counters.
May I ask what brand of refrigerator you have? I’ve read some many reviews that are back and forth on the upkeep of stainless.

Oakley - I’ll keep that in mind. I really am hoping to find the cd one I’m looking at IRL.

Jerseygirl - We do have large freezer in the basement and are actually planning to purchase another upright so we’ll be good for freezer room.
“We only needed a side panel on one side since the other side is a wall”
Oh how I wish mine were like that. It wouldn't bother me if it stuck out past the cabinets if it were on the end. It just looks so much better being there than in the middle of the cabinet run if it’s not boxed out properly.

I honestly think both of my options aren’t going to look great and I’m just trying to figure out which one will bug me less.

Thanks everyone! I’ll be sure to post photos when this is all completed.

sheesharee: I was asking about the height and countertop to countertop distance to verify how much space you were working with. I have been grappling with a similar problem in a 2nd home

You have plenty of width to the island, so the standard depth is OK. However, as you know, the fridge will stick past any side panels. Normally, the top refrigerator cabinet is put on top of the fridge. However, with the 3/4 side panels, you now have a problem, as you realize. Were you just going to drop that section or order a new, narrower, top cabinet? In my situation, I'm worried about color matching as stains have a tendency to change over time.

You might check out a few of the 36 CD fridges that come with stainless side panels that attach onto the frame. The downside is the kit for both sides runs $800 to $1000 and when you have to replace the fridge, you have to do it all over again. There are a few models that come with stainless steel sides. Or, get a CD that comes in white or has nicer colored sides (the 22 cu ft Bosch B22CS30SNS has a nicer metallic looking finish on the sides and is under 69 inches).

S'ree, I have CD, and am still considering cabinet fronts~house is almost 7 yo. I thought about it 'back then' but liked the idea of the 'exposed' stainless appliances. Well after living with it for awhile, I've changed my tune. Having hard water when I first moved in did't help. Guests ignored water running down the front of the fridge when getting a glass of water, filling the animals bowls the same, I still have 'memories' on the door. The dishwasher is much better, but being a clean freak, and living alone, I have my eccentricities!

sheesharee, mine is a Maytag top mount (freezer on top). I won't get this refrigerator again, but it was the only one that would fit in my space, and I have a very tiny galley kitchen. Stuff is freezing on the bottom of the fridge, no matter how low I put the temp…not happy with this fridge.

Most of my clients have the LGs and GEs and such french-door ss fridges, and I've not noticed the same problems with them. must be a heavier SS. I have totally followed manufacturer's instructions about taking care of it. But I also live on Cape Cad where humidity is a huge factor. I suspect that's the problem. ONe client of mine had a brand new SS French-door fridge, and her cleaning people scoured something on one of the doors, probably using one of those green pads. It's so noticeable and not reparable. She has to just live with it. But they show every finger print….I don't know. They look good, but that's all, IMO.

Sheesharee, is there some place you could install a free-standing freezer and put a full-size CD refrigerator-only in that spot? I have a friend who has side-by-side Sub-Zero full-size freezer and refrigerator. They're great. Not suggesting a full-size freezer, but something smaller with shelves so it's easy to get stuff?

I'd go for the CD. I'm not sure about boxing in a fridge that is in the middle of cabinets.

If you have a freezer, you may be fine to go with a smaller fridge. Especially if (like someone else suggested), you got an extra (small) fridge to put elsewhere. What about your current fridge? Could you put it in a basement/garage?

tina

With your family, IMHO definitely go with a reg depth larger frig with whatever color sides you prefer--ck out your inspiration pictures above to see the difference between black and gray. You'll also get a better price for reg depth I think since they're more common.

I think the simplest way to accomplish what you want is:
1) remove the front crown molding on the section of cabinets from the frig to the end.
2) move the upper and lower end cabinets over a few inches toward your doorway to allow room for the cabinet paneling on each side of the frig--hopefully your existing flooring goes under that lower end cabinet so you don't have to patch in there.
3) add the panels to both sides of the frig location.
4) re-hang the above frig upper cabinet by bringing it forward (attach it with either mounting blocks to the sides of the other upper cabinets or spacer blocks that can attach to the back wall (or a combination of both).
5) install finish molding to cover any gaps between the upper cabinet and the paneling (if there are any).
6) re-install crown to the top, jogging out around the "above frig" cabinet.

I have SS appliances, but my frig is one of the ones with the no-show fingerprint finish. It always looks clean--other SS appliances on the other hand are a challenge, and the finish difference between them, while slightly noticeable, doesn't bother me and is worth the lack of cleaning needed on the frig.

Good luck! I'm sure whichever way you choose will look good.

Gooster - Is ¾” the standard for panel width?
“Were you just going to drop that section or order a new, narrower, top cabinet? In my situation, I'm worried about color matching as stains have a tendency to change over time.”
Yes, I was going to order a new deeper and smaller upper cabinet. I was a little concerned about the stain issue myself. I plan on gel staining these using the General Finishes brand. I was originally going to have the cabinets stripped but that’s out after checking out the cost. I’d have to do it myself, which I could but… The GF gel stain can be used over an existing cleaned and scuffed finish. Assuming I DON’T strip the cabinets, even if I stain and finish any new wood pieces to match my current cabinets BEFORE I gel stain (trying to get them all the same so they stain even), I’m not sure if the stain will take the same since they’re different products/finishes - one from the factory one that I did. You know? This is why I thought stripping everything and starting with bare wood would probably be the best way to go. I’m also considering replacing the crown with something a little more substantial.

Then there’s the issue of ordering the upper cabinet and panels. The local place I know of that sells my cabinets, I don’t know if I can buy them unfinished. ?? I haven’t contacted them yet. I suppose I should do that tomorrow to find out more.

I saw some refrigerators have a ss side panel. I honestly don’t think I like that anymore than an exposed side. It might just be extra to keep clean. I think I’d prefer wood side panels or a counter depth.

Patty - I don’t plan on purchasing front panels for the refrigerator. Thanks for the fb on the ss appliances. I think I’m more worried about the dishwasher being stainless than the rest.

Tibbrix - I’m glad to hear the LG didn’t seem to have those problems. The cd one I’m considering is by LG.
We have a full size freezer in the basement. Hmm.. I never thought about just a refrigerator for upstairs. I’m not sure if I’d like that. It would take some getting used to.

Tina - I mentioned to DH about keeping the old fridge and he wants to get rid of it since we won’t really be using it.

Sujafr - Ah, yes! I mentioned this on the kitchen forum but nobody really said anything about it. I kind of just scratched it. I wondered about the crown being too close to the edge. I don’t know that I’d be able to replace it with anything larger like I wanted - which is ok, but we’re planning on removing the wood valance over the sink and I’m not sure if there’s enough existing crown to make the cuts to return it back to the wall.
The floor runs under the cabinets.
“4) re-hang the above frig upper cabinet by bringing it forward (attach it with either mounting blocks to the sides of the other upper cabinets or spacer blocks that can attach to the back wall (or a combination of both).”
WAIT! Wouldn’t I need a deeper cabinet? ………. I wouldn’t, would I?! I was thinking I would have to order a new upper cabinet. Well, unless I wanted to raise the height to accomodate a larger refrigerator. If the cabinets were raised higher there, I'd have to do the same to the ones above the microwave on the other side and I just don't want to do that.

Would I even need to buy a panel from the same maker my cabinets are from?

shesharee, I meant a separate freezer in the kitchen. Is there a space for one somewhere? Something like this. See link.

Here is a link that might be useful: undercab freezer

I have a full depth refrigerator. It's at the end of a run, so I have a panel on only one side. The panel is the same depth as the refrigerator, and I have a 24" deep cabinet above the refrigerator, pulled out so that it is flush with the front of the refrigerator. You can do the same with your cabinets. Make two panels the height of the refrigerator plus cabinets, pull out the existing cabinets above the refrigerator so thatn they are flush with the front of the panels, and add crown molding arouns the top of the cabinets and panels.

Here's a quick and dirty mockup of what I mean:

Ah, I typed my last response fast. Correction - I remember the reason I would still need to replace the upper cabinet is because of the hinge. There wouldn't be enough height even with the cd fridge I was looking at.

Tibbrix - Oh ok. I don't know where I'd place it. The cabinet space we have is pretty valuable.

Thank you for the mock up Suero. Would you line the panels up with the countertop or with the refrigerator (if I purchased a regular one)? I've seen both, but I didn't know if one was considered the better way? I see in the mock up you had the panels line up with the sides of the refrigerator.
Here are two photos showing the panels past the countertop. However, both of these are on an end.
So like this with the panels pulled past the counter?
{{gwi:1653338}}

Or like this with the panels at the counter and fridge sticking out past?
{{gwi:1653336}}
If I bought a regular depth refrigerator (like the one I own in ss), and pulled the panels fw. so that they covered the sides, the panels and fridge would be sticking out 7" to the door.

This post was edited by sheesharee on Sun, Mar 2, 14 at 22:52

You said "I remember the reason I would still need to replace the upper cabinet is because of the hinge. There wouldn't be enough height even with the cd fridge I was looking at."

We had this problem in a previous home--the cabinet maker custom made the cabinets to fit our existing frig we had at the time and was a bit more snug with his fit than we were expecting. Well, of course, frig sizes have changed somewhat, so when we replaced that frig, it was quite the challenge because as you noticed, the frig hinge sticks up and can block the upper cabinet door from opening even if the frig fits into the opening. BUT, the good news is that frig measurements are not standard for certain cu ft interiors. We actually managed to find a 25 cu ft side by side (personal preference since I hate the big freezer box at the bottom where things get buried down in there)...that fit your approximate measurements. I believe we had 35 3/4 x 69 1/4 opening to have the door above clear the frig hinge.

We also discovered that you absolutely cannot go by the manufacturer's specs to know the height. Sometimes the correct height is listed and other times it's off by more than an inch. DH and I walked down the rows of frig's with a measuring tape in several appliance stores until we found the one that would fit. We were determined to get a 25 cf so only looked at that size. I believe we found ours at Lowes...and I think it was Whirlpool, but it's been about 2 yrs. I saw a couple 25 cf Whirlpool frig's that show 69.13" for the height if you can squeeze out that much...and if the specs are accurate.

My panels in our current house are about half way in between your first pic and the second one. The panel sticks out beyond the lower cupboards a couple inches or so, but not as much as the first pic. It all depends on how far forward the upper is hung. That second pic looks like they pieced the panel between the upper and lower...not the best IMHO. It would be nicer if it's one long piece. As to the panel's thickness--I think they're the same as the cabinet walls--about 3/4".

As far as your crown molding goes...that looks to be fairly standard so I bet you could match it if you need to patch in a piece.

BTW, my neighbor at our previous home bought a new frig, and then discovered she couldn't get it in and have the upper cabinet door open. They moved the hinges to the top so the cabinet door swung up to open rather than out because she really liked the new frig.

In our previous home, we took down the laundry room cabinets and raised them up to the ceiling and installed open shelving for basket storage down below them. That's when I found out that re-hanging cabinets is actually one of the simpler DIY things to do if they used screws to hang them. Here's a link that shows one way to use bracing to re-hang that above frig cabinet when it's brought forward.

Here is a link that might be useful: Younghouselove.com brings frig cabinet forward

I'm running late, so I didn't read all the responses, so apologies if you heard this and shot it down!

First, is there room behind the fridge to move it back? Either just into the wall cavity, which will give you about 6" or even further if there is nothing back there, and then have a little bump out in that space. (Obviously you would drywall around the fridge, not just have its backend in another room). Not sure what is back there.

OR,

What about a fridge only option that fits in there? You could add freezer drawers somewhere in place of a lower cabinet that you might be able to live without.

I agree with some others that a cd may just be too small for you. Have a friend who did it and regretted it. Luckily they are empty nesters but she has said that if she would have done this with the kids at home she would have had to switch it out.

Bee

I have the panels lined up with the fridge, not the cabinet. I like it much better that way. With the cabinet above the fridge pulled out to align with the panel, the fridge looks built in, as in your first picture, but with the advantage of greater depth than a counter depth fridge.

I haven't read all the responses, so apologize if it's already been mentioned, but you can get 30" panels and box out a full-depth refrigerator. This is what I did for my FD refrigerator. Another option is to recess your refrigerator into the wall which will buy you another 3", make sure to use a recess refrigerator plug. Put the refrigerator at the end of the cabinet run by swapping the refrigerator cabinet with the cabinet to the right. If you are not replacing counters, consider putting a butcher block counter top on just that section. Strongly suggest keeping your FD refrigerator for your family as long as you have the aisle space to support it. Another option would be to just get rid of the cabinets to the right entirely and replace them with a tall cabinet (30"W x 12"D) rotated 90 degrees with a panel on the front. This would be a great place for a broom closet, shallow pantry or a bookcase. There are many options. Did you not get many good ideas from the kitchen forum? If not, try again but change the subject line of your post in order to get the layout guru's to chime in.

Sujafr - “We also discovered that you absolutely cannot go by the manufacturer's specs to know the height.”
That is so terrible! What’s the point in giving specifications if they’re not accurate since that’s the whole point, you know? I think I remember seeing a small note on a set of specs saying they may not be accurate. *smacks head*. :)

“That second pic looks like they pieced the panel between the upper and lower...not the best IMHO”
I agree that looks a little strange.

Our crown, I believe, is 2 3/8”. It’s ok, I was just thinking something a little larger, would look nicer. I don’t want to crowd the ceiling crown though. I suppose I could just buy small replacement piece if needed. I’m still concerned about the stain matching. I’ll have to do some test runs for sure.
About your neighbor, I didn’t even realize they could do that with the hinges.
Thanks for the link!

Bee - DH did poo pooed that idea, but I think just because it sounds like a complicated pain. The laundry room is on the other side, and the wall behind the fridge is where the wall drying rack is. I could live with a bump out in there.

With recessing it into the wall, I would need someone for cutting/new drywall as well as a plumber and electrician for the water line and electrical outlet, right?

Unfortunately, I don’t thinking taking away the cabinet space would work well for us.

Hmm… as for the cd, my current fridge is 21 something cu ft. and works great. However, if my kids end up with an appetite like DH during the teen years we’re going to need another whole fridge somewhere. :) The cd one I was looking at that fits is 20.7 or .9. Is the size really going to be that different? I know it’ll be wider vs. deeper. I’m hoping to get out this weekend to see it IRL.

Suero - I agree with you. I think I’d rather see the side panels match the fridge even if it sticks out past the cabinets better than having it boxed and the fridge sticking out past the box. Since my fridge isn’t on the end I’m still trying to decide if I’m going to think it looks much better that what I have going on now (I’m referring to the cabinet set up - I know ss will look better). It’s the sticking out part that bothers me so that’s why I was thinking the counter depth fridge would take care of that.

Hi Val! Thanks for the panel info. I really know nothing about kitchen stuff and what’s available and I’m finding this whole process somewhat frustrating.

As for boxing the fridge, do you just go in as far as you needed to accommodate the fridge size or is there a standard depth for this? If we went this route, which I don’t really see me being able to convince DH at this time, I’d rather not have a bump out in the laundry room.

“Put the refrigerator at the end of the cabinet run by swapping the refrigerator cabinet with the cabinet to the right.”
At some point in life, this is going to happen but I was going to wait until we replaced the counters (& floors) or redo the kitchen. I’d like to have the fridge on the end with a wall beside it.

“If you are not replacing counters, consider putting a butcher block counter top on just that section.”
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen that done. I’m off to look for photos. We are keeping the counters at this point.

I only got a few responses from the kitchen forum. I suppose I know what my options are at this point I just am having a hard time making a decision. We don’t have a large budget for this mini makeover and have decided to spend more on appliances than originally planned. I’m trying to sort my options out. I like details and I'd much rather have someone present me with a plan of options, lists, and prices and us pick one. ...And this is why people hire designers & GCs.

And just because I feel like being chatty, my actual plans are to replace the appliances, stain the cabinets (GF Brown Mahogany), I like to replace the cabinet crown, add a 6" can above the sink and remove the wood valance, paint the walls BM Shaker Beige to coordinate much better with the counters and floor, paint the island a TBD color, change out valance fabric/considering making a cornice, replace fabric on chair cushions, and I’d like to replace the current art (main wall behind the table) with a set of botanical prints. I'm not sure what I'm doing with the backsplash area. I need to see some of these changes first.

This post was edited by sheesharee on Tue, Mar 4, 14 at 23:03

If I moved the fridge to the end, I'd need a plumber and electrican to move the water line and outlet, right?

Where is a good place to get butcher block?

Am using deeper than countertop depth panels, that will cover the entire side (except for the door) - to hide the ugly sides and avoid using a CD fridge.

No, it is not white and it will open the other direction. This is just a KD elevation drawing.

IKEA is a great place to get butcher block. You could also consider a marble slab, and create a baking center.

Mdln - Thanks for the photo!

Wma - I have yet to walk into an Ikea, but would enjoy spending a day checking the place out. I think the marble slab might look better to my eye, but as for actually using it as 'baking center', the island is my main work area. Would it really look that strange to just use the same countertop even though there would be a gap? - I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'm also not seeing many photos (found one kitchen) with a separate piece of countertop material that wasn't an island.

As for recessing the fridge into the wall, I was looking at the laundry room again and I believe the fridge would interfere with where the sink is.