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dandylandy

How much to spend on furniture as percentage of home price?

dandylandy
12 years ago

Hi decorators,

Just wondering if anyone had seen guidelines on how much to spend to furnish a home in line with its value?

In other words, we read a lot about not "over improving" a home, but I am wondering about "over furnishing" - we spent a lot of money (for us) renovating and moved from a 1 bedroom apt to a 3 bedroom apt, and it is time to get rid of our old post-college furniture, which really looks terrible in our lovely new apt.

Not to mention, there are a lot of pieces we just don't own (e.g. old apt - no dining room; new apt. has a dining room.)

We've been discussing this as a couple, and wondering what a "reasonable" budget would be to furnish this place.

We have savings set aside for furniture, but also want to be realistic about use - e.g. we'll def. spend more on the DR set as it will be a keeper for the next 30 years, and less on the sofa as kids will beat it up.

So, has anyone ever seen a guideline? Like if you spent X on your home, to furnish it medium and medium-high end will cost you 10%, 20% or whatever of X.

By medium and medium-high, I mean companies like Bernhardt, Baker, Drexel, John Richard, etc. - not European antiques or bespoke craftsmen creating fine custom furniture.

Thanks in advance...

Comments (83)

  • kswl2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Most designers will not work without a budget, and it is unfair to expect them to. If one doesnt give them some idea of the total cost of the project they won't be able to allocate funds for various parts of the job. ... It's like asking them to guess how much I'll spend on a sofa--- they might waste eferyone's time proposing things that are way out of budget.

  • lazy_gardens
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dandylandy -
    I saw that you have a collection of things you like already ... find a decorator who works hourly, book a couple of hours as a consult, show them your stuff and ask for a plan that makes it work. Tell them that you will do major shopping through them.

    I've never understood the practice of getting a percentage of the sale as the fee. It automatically shoves the decision bias towards gold-plated loos and Scalamandre silk sofas.

  • andreadeg
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I've never understood keeping a budget secret..."

    Because a budget isn't necessarily a static thing. I might be able to afford $100,00 on furnishings but what if I could spend $50,000 and be just as satisfied? I'll completely miss spending $50,000 though if I tell my designer that I can spend $100,000. Also, what if my budget is $20,000 but that means I'll be giving up quality in soft furnishings? You might want to wait a year until you can spend $30,000 and get quality. It's hard for the average person to know what a reasonable amount of money is to set aside to furnish a room, or house, and a decorator/designer isn't necessarily going to bring it in on the low side. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

  • kswl2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I'll completely miss spending $50,000 though if I tell my designer that I can spend $100,000."

    The secret budget approach may work for people who don't trust their designer as a professional--- if you can find someone who will work on that basis. I personally would not work with a designer I thought was trying to overcharge $50k or (more likely ) overcharged because of poor communication on my part. The design process includes time to talk about quality, to be given pictures and prices of good, better, best, and to go shopping to see in person what those levels mean to the designer.

  • PRO
    acdesignsky
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Let's you only afford or want to spend $10,000 but the designer thinks you can spend $50,000. How is it benefitting either of you? How can the designer even source products or contractors if they don't know your budget? You could get a vague idea (colors, basic furniture and fixture placement), but not a detailed plan of any kind. Let's say you love that vague plan and decided to move forward, then the pro presents you with specific products and all of a sudden you are presented with a figure 2-3x your budget or lower priced items of lesser quality. Then what? A designer who normally shops at ABC Home is not going to now shop at Ashley or Bassett Furniture to meet your budget. And the homeowner is most likely not going to be willing or able to stretch a $10,000 budget into a $50,000 one.
    Conversely, let's say the homeowner has a 50k budget, but the designer thinks it's 10k. The homeowner is then presented with products that are not up to par with their expectations.
    An informed homeowner can certainly get a basic idea of cost of furniture on the Internet. Same with rugs and accessories. I may not put all my cards on the table during the initial meet, maybe I would lowball 10%, but I would give them a ballpark figure.
    OP, sorry to hijack the thread. You have gotten some good advice and good luck with your dream home!

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In what fantasy world would a designer have any interest in working with somebody who won't even say what the budget is? The only interior object you'll be shown is the door.

  • weedyacres
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's always a challenge to specify a budget when you can afford much more than you probably really want to spend. I ran into that when house shopping. Realtors always ask your price range, and I'd say "I need 4 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths with at least 2000 square feet and such-and-such amenties. What will that cost me?" They don't think--or search the MLS--that way. So I browse around on realtor.com, come up with the low end of the price range that looks like it'll get me the house I want, and we start looking. If I don't find what I want, we bump up the price range $30K and go another round. And so on.

    For me, furniture is much the same. I'm a "I don't know what I want to spend, I just look for something I love and get the best bargain I can" kind of girl. So I want a sofa and chairs for my living room, a certain color, a certain kind of cushion. I look all over and none exactly fit the bill. I finally find a set at a discounty-type place for $500 for a sofa and 2 chairs. Bingo!

    Then I shop for bedroom furniture. I'm wanting a certain look, and finally find it at Ethan Allen, and I spend $3500 on 2 nice pieces. I skip the nightstands because they're $500 each, which seems way too high, and pick up a couple at Overstock.com 6 months later for $100 each that match beautifully.

    I probably would have paid $1000 for the living room set if that's what the "right" set cost. I would have loved to get the bedroom furniture for $2000, but couldn't find something I loved for that.

    And I don't think I could ever pay $5000 for a couch. I don't think most furniture is timeless, and when I got tired of it I'd delay getting rid of it because it was so expensive. No $40,000 rugs for this kid. I don't even do $40,000 cars because they depreciate.

    So I don't know if my rambling is actually leading to anything resembling useful advice. :-) I rambled because your brain seems to work a bit like mine on the issue. I guess if I were in your shoes, with no energy for design, I'd tell the designer what I was looking for in a room (feel, style, color, whatever), and ask them what I could get for $1000, $5000, and $10,000 (or whatever your price points are). Have them come up with plans and then you can see what you get for the money. You should have some built-in sense for "that's worth it (or not) to me" and settle on something. Once you've done that with a couple rooms, you might be able to extrapolate for the rest of the house.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am sorry, I disagree that you need to specify a budget. I have used decorators several times (NYC and environs) and I have never given them a budget. I am struggling with the nicest possible way to say this, but if it is clear that you are ready willing and able to spend a significant amount to furnish a room, I do not think that step one needs to be a budget. If you are starting out or have other reasons to keep costs down, then you do need to mention it up front as you may be specifying quite a challenge. (Like the ridiculous shows that make over 4br homes with 1000 and a weekend)

    Especially if it is just furnishings, a budget makes sense to me only if you, the client, needs one or want one. Most of the time what I would say to a designer is, if i really like something I am pretty open to spending considerable money on it. But by the same token if I want to a slip covered headboard, I've no qualms about buying it at Pottery Barn, even if it sits on a $20,000 area rug. So my view is, show me what you thinks works and show me a few price points. If you are talented, I might spend a lot more than I expected. But if you are really talented, you will show me a room the way you would do it for yourself --- a room that offers good value and includes luxuries only when they have no substitute and really make a room.

  • jenny_from_the_block
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also am one that would never tell my exact budget up front. To be honest, I never have an exact one. I like to tell people (just an example) I want to price out my dream kitchen and am very specific about what I want, and see what it all costs. Then I will decide on what elements to splurge and save. I also like to haggle - if I find something I love and am sure about, its easier then to say... Will you sell your X to me for x? IME a lot of businesses have wiggle room in their prices.

  • kswl2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Perhaps we're not all talking about the same thing :) if a person is moving and has a house that needs completing within a specific time frame, say six months or so, I think that person will have to be willing to be honest about the budget. One budget may be more open ended than another, but the homeowner will be giving the designer guidelines even in the absense of "a number" just by which furnishings are selected from the ones proposed. And, as the OP has noted, the quality, location and value of the home will help the designer predict (or assume) what one will want or need to spend. Mixing price points is really not the issue, as i see it. The budget can be large or small, but in most cases people do have something in mind when they embark upon a project. If they don't, they should-- from a purely financial point of view. I can understand not having a set budget if the rooms will be furnished over years. I'll wait for something just right, but in the meantime I will have to have an interim placeholder that can later be moved to another room, given to a child in a condo, or sold, and that placeholder has to be found and purchased....time and money, part of the budget.....we are numbers people.

  • pps7
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think you need to disclose an exact budget, but certainly a ballpark. One can send 700 or 2500 or 20,000 on a sofa. When I met with a designer, I said I wanted to send approx 2500 for a sofa. If I had found one we loved for 3500, then I would have done it. But I would have been irritated if she picked out 20k sofas. She directed me to furnitures lines in my price point: Mitchell gold, Lee industries, Oly, etc.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mtnrdredux, I seriously doubt any designer you've worked with has wondered about the adequacy of your budget.

    But many people truly have no idea what furnishings of a certain quality cost. I always remember various news stories about the cost of curtains, such as that CEO (I forget which) with the $6K shower curtain. At the time I thought, well, if it's custom drapery panels with a valance over the liner, plus trim, that sounds about right. But of course all the news anchors feigned shock.

    The point is not about having an "exact" budget: it really doesn't matter if you plan to spend $35K or $300K. But it certainly does matter if you expect to spend $3500. Because at that level most of the to-the-trade items a designer deals with will not be available.

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Since I am not actively working in the field, and I only do design work for people I know already, I have an idea of what their budgets are (generally miniscule) before we begin. However, they may not consider it low, so having someone tell me they are willing to spend a small, medium or large amount of money in a vague sense is not particularly informative.

    I had a client who had never bought a piece of furniture that hadn't fallen off the back of a truck or wasn't from a discount place, so she thought $1000 for a sofa was a lot. She thought it cost $100 to have something professionally upholstered...in other words she was clueless, so her valuation of a lot or a little made no sense in reality. She still thinks her $6000 near gut remodel of a bathroom was expensive. (Compared to the plastic tub liners and slap up some paint favored by the rest of her family)

    I really don't understand the guardedness and secrecy of setting even a ballpark budget if you work with a designer. You don't walk into a Honda dealership looking to spend $90K and you don't walk into a Mercedes dealership and walk out with a car for $10K. You don't ask to see houses in a $1M neighborhood if that's not your budget.

    I think it goes back to this old prejudice that someone should be able to design something completely for themselves, so using a designer is frivolous, or worse, that the designer is a rip off artist that would make you spend $100K if they knew that's how much money you have. There are certainly designers out there like that, but I think most of them work with people who have budgets, and may try to come in Under...because it may lead to return business.

  • andreadeg
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's so interesting to read different perspectives on this topic! I'm sure dandylandy didn't think she'd start such an active conversation with her innocent post:-)

    This is one of the things I like about this forum; well educated and passiontate folks discussing home decorating! It's so fun.

    I'm reminded that reasonable people can disagree. Too, I do think there is a huge difference between someone who wants to furnish their entire home in 6 months and is working with a designer. Yes, you absolutely must share your budget range in that scenario. Since I've never had and never will have the luxury of that situation my brain doesn't work like that. I just assume that folks furnish their homes over time and they check craigslist for that perfect mirror, or, chair.

    Anyhoo...another great topic on the home dec forum

    Pal- it's too bad you don't design professionally anymore. You are so good! I always read your posts with great interest.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You don't walk into a Honda dealership looking to spend $90K and you don't walk into a Mercedes dealership and walk out with a car for $10K.

    That was the point of my comment to mtnrdredux. Everyone knew she could afford a Mercedes and wasn't completely wasting their time, regardless of whether she actually chose to purchase something.

    As long as you're in a designer's ballpark, budgets can be set iteratively. You can shop over time, your designer can show you a few different etageres or sofas, and then your choice will affect the price of things your designer brings you in the future. If you buy two Baker pieces, you may see more stuff in that price range. If you don't, a decent designer won't keep pushing them. What's the point?

    Going back before the budget secrecy discussion started, I think the question of how much to spend on furniture really is hard. That's because a lot of things have changed that affect our choices--mostly due to globalization.

    First, furniture quality has collapsed. As I've said, I recovered two couches I had planned to replace because I bought them in the mid '90s and they were Frederick Edwards. A salesman in a trade showroom stopped me from looking at couches when he heard that--he told me straight out to recover them, because to get the exact same quality today would cost over $10K per piece plus fabric. So if you want furniture that's as sturdy as what your parents had, you have to spend much more than they did (inflation adjusted) to get the same thing. At the same time, if you choose more affordable pieces, you have to realize that they are, yes, junk and will not last you a lifetime.

    Second, styles keep changing very rapidly because globalization creates a market of old crap that wears out and new trendy products that can quickly replace them on the cheap. The whole industry is now geared toward that model, so you're much more likely to tire of your purchases than your parents did.

    So what do you do? Buy trendy garbage and throw it out, or buy higher quality and pay through your teeth? The answer just isn't simple.

  • pps7
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I guess the issue is that what if your sofa budget is 20k, but there might be a 2500 one that you would like. Will the designer even show it to you?

    I mean, there is a clear difference between a Mercedes and Honda, but sometimes the differences in furniture is not quite as obvious to me. And there are people who could spend 50K on a car but decide to buy a Hnda instead.

    I do wish, that designers would just charge by the hour and not upcharge on furntiture bought. I would rather they charged a higher hourly rate. It clearly affects their judgement if they are getting 30% of the cost of the furniture.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The issue is the same with every commission-based business, including designers and real estate agents. People say they want to pay by the hour, but they don't.

    It can take an enormous amount of time to wade through a vast design center looking for a couch at showroom after showroom--not just what's on the floor, but also what's in catalogues--then spend twice that amount of time looking at fabric swatches. Would most people really pay the bill for that at the end of the month without complaint, even if (as is likely) they haven't even found a couch yet?

    There are some conflicts that come with the marked-up pricing model. Designers often aren't as strong advocates with manufacturers as a retail store might be, because they don't have the leverage and can't afford to just replace your couch if you don't like it.

    However, I really think the notion of "hiding" cheaper alternatives is just speculation, and it isn't something that happens in real life. Designers don't make that much more taking you from a $10K to a $14K couch; and failing to show you a $7K couch isn't going to get them a bigger commission if you don't want to spend that much anyway. And if you want a $2500 couch, you're not getting it through a designer anyway.

  • pps7
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo, I respectfully disagree. I did buy a couch from a designer for $2250 to be exact. I don't think designer services are only for those people that want to spend 10K on a sofa.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What line? I can't think of a single to-the-trade line off the top of my head offering a sofa at that price.

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think there are more designers that do work by the hour. That's how I do it. The problem with that is that it seems higher priced to people because it's an up front cost. After all people get "Free" design services at places like Ethan Allen or cabinet-affiliated kitchen design places.

    And think it is free, because they are paying for services but the price is tacked on to the goods, and people understand paying for an object rather than for an idea.

    My parents always said that working with designers Saved them money. But as I have said over and over, they like what they liked and will always like it, and don't need to totally redecorate. So the very expensive $1100 sofa they bought in 1969 they still have, and the $97 a yard trim (I) picked out for the LR drapes in 1987 is still there. It becomes a lot cheaper if it has a long life cycle, and people mostly don't believe in long life cycle anymore, for all the talk of sustainability. And that $1100 sofa they bought in 1969 started out at almost $2000( a car, then) but the designer watched it for them, bought it on sale and with an employee's discount and passed it on to them. I still have the various hangtags and receipts that tell the whole story of how that designer saved them money right at the beginning, and over time as well by urging them to buy quality where it counted, and cheaply where it made sense.(my sisters' bedroom furniture...they would only live in the house a few years)

  • sas95
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What line? I can't think of a single to-the-trade line off the top of my head offering a sofa at that price.

    In my search for a designer I learned that not all designers deal solely in to-the-trade furniture. I spoke with one who seemed to source mostly from C&B, Williams-Sonoma Home, Mitchell Gold, etc. Which made no sense for me because one of the main reasons I wanted to use a designer was to access what I could not ordinarily access. Plus, the idea of paying a markup from retail for a Crate & Barrel sofa that I could just walk into a mall and buy strikes a bad note with me.

    I wish that I could have found a designer that I could pay by the hour for a layout and a preliminary sense of direction. And maybe some help selecting a major piece or two for each room, after which I could collect the rest over time. I probably didn't look hard enough, but I was not too successful. For the two rooms I was working on I ended up going to Stickley and using one of their designers for that purpose. I only bought a few items from each of his room plans, but enough to "pay for" the design service. I do think using this service saved me for making a bunch of mistakes, as apparently my initial thoughts were way off as to scale.

  • pps7
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I wish that I could have found a designer that I could pay by the hour for a layout and a preliminary sense of direction. And maybe some help selecting a major piece or two for each room, after which I could collect the rest over time."

    That is exactly how we worked with her. We needed help with the family room and she helped us purchase a sofa, loveseat, wing chair, Gave some advice on piant color, accent colors, layout, scale. None of the pieces were to the trade only. We did end up COM with a designer fabric that was to the trade only on one of the pieces. She did not upcharge on all of the pieces- just the COM chair. The rest she billed hourly. I was happy to pay her the $500 for her expertise. I ended up getting the smaller pieces on my own. I found a few vintage end tables, old apple picking ladder. I'm sure we will work with her again for window treatments and a few other fnishing touches. Those have been put on hold b/c DH decided to do a home theatre :)

    I don't like to use "free" design services b/c then you are limited to that brand.

  • sas95
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree about not wanting to be limited to the brand when you use "free" design services. That's why I went to a place that I knew I'd want to buy at least a few things from. The furniture store designers-- at least the one I worked with from Stickley-- didn't expect me to buy all the items he suggested. Though I'm sure he would have been happy if I did. I bought a couch, a sectional and a chair from him, and that's probably all he'll get from me. But I did end up with a layout that gave me some good ideas, and I'm tweaking as I go along.

    It's nice you found someone that worked well for you, pps7. I may try again to find an independent designer when I get around to some of my other rooms.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Free" design services are not necessarily provided by an actual designer. A lot of stores give their salespeople fancy titles.

    One way to find design services on a limited, affordable basis is to contact your local design center. The Boston Design Center, for example, has a Designer On Call program where you can get somebody to do a room plan and limited shopping for you. There is markup on the to-the-trade goods, but they are at a steep discount off "list" (whatever that means) and hourly rates are an option on certain things.

    As far as prices goes, on some categories--accent tables, for instance--you can actually find better deals through designers than at retail.

    As far as quality goes, the retail brands have fallen down the hole. I have Mitchell Gold chairs in my kitchen from 1995 that I could easily reupholster and keep using forever, even though they weren't terribly expensive to begin with. Last time I was in a MG showroom, however, all the floor samples looked like they had done time in a crack house. Veneer was literally peeling straight off the cases pieces even though they had never been used. And C&B--I'm writing on a C&B desk now, in my office. It split, and the drawers racked, three weeks after I bought it.

    The quality of to-the-trade merchandise has been much higher; however many of those products have also had problems I would not consider acceptable at those price points. Some issues were rectified, and some not. So while designer goods are better, they are not perfect either.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Poor Dandy probably thinks we are all nuts.

    Back to the original question.

    1. I do not think you need to give the interior designer a budget. Such professionals can and do handicap clients' wherewithal. A 3br 3ba in Manhattan lets her know you don't want Ikea and that she should want you as a client.

    2. I'd describe what you need, mention a few things you like, and few things you really don't like, and ask her to give you a range of what you should expect to spend per room, with appropriate caveats.

    3. I would not buy junk, but I would accept that decor is fashion and, when you purchase something, do not fool yourself that you will have it and love it forever. I bought a lot of needlessly expensive things because I believed that. Some I would still buy, some not. My 2cents.

    4 Oh and have fun with it!

    PS You will find yourself redefine "silly wasteful" after a day in the D and D building!

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Eh, I have seen some of the worst junk in expensive apartments and houses because people can't afford anything but the mortgage and/or the carrying costs. Owning a pricey apartment in a pricey location doesn't inform me much at all. It could be the definition of house poor.

    I wouldn't work with someone who wouldn't ballpark me a budget. To me it would mean they didn't trust me, and so I wouldn't trust them.

  • jenny_from_the_block
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    About the budget thing, I think a lot of that goes without saying. Most people don't go to store x, designer x, car showroom x, without both parties knowing inuitively the ballpark budget estimate. And from my standpoint, yes I have been completely soured by (contractors especially) trying to give random astronomical quotes thinking they can get it out of you with no basis on what you know of what materials cost and what you approximate labor hours plus hourly wage to be ( and yes I always factor in that contractors should enjoy vacation and sick leave, medical insurance
    etc). Maybe I feel I have a better grasp than most since we have done so many DIY projects. I think if a designer or contractor is truly not sure about someone's
    budget (and I find that hard to believe) by asking some really simple questions like "what stores or brands have you found chairs etc that you
    like and might buy" and how many of them do you need really sums up
    the ballpark budget estimate in my eyes. I love when designers will be up front with their hourly rate, and say... If you want me to measure and pick out all the pieces for your LR, it will be approx this many hours of my time. Then you know if you should bother following up with them or not. If the client says I want a cream colored sofa with this look.. then a designer could tactfully show them three, high middle low price, and be up front about approximate price. Then most people I think "get" what features they really want and what they will have to give up to be at the price they need.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mtnrdredux, I think it would be helpful if you would spill the beans on whatever incident put you off telling designers your budget.

    Asking a designer for help finding one or two pieces is one thing. This is different. The OP has a three BR apartment in Manhattan; it sounds like she wants to furnish the whole thing in a relatively short period of time. Without a budget, a designer would not even know where to start.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't tell if you are serious or teasing me? : )

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You keep humming that somebody done somebody wrong song. Sing it, sister!

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Where I grew up there are no furniture stores except one "price point" furniture store, so you either had to travel to see any decent furniture, or travel And work with a designer. (Very small niche market for that there)

    My parents' interior designer was 3 hours away, for example.

    The interior designer in town, who was a friend of the family was approached by a (wealthy) woman in town who would only say about the budget "large enough to do what I want to do".

    The interior designer came up with a comprehensive furniture plan for the entire house, and since the client "did not have the time to travel" the interior designer showed her lots of pictures and details of furniture, and the woman took notes "to keep track of the budget".

    She then told the interior designer she was going to delay the project until the kids were back in school. She hopped on a plane with her notes, went to High Point and bought all the furniture herself. The interior designer made $0.00 on a 4000 square foot project.

    The two people I worked with who were coy about budget did the same thing, in essence, used the basis of a conversation or two to get information and then do it themselves.

    This is why I now charge by the hour, and won't work with someone who is vague about the project or won't tell me a budget.

  • andreadeg
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, that really is a stinky underhanded thing to do to somebody. Those are the kinds of stories that make me feel so horrible for designers, or for anyone who sells "ideas". That's not the kind of arrangement I was thinking of when I said I wouldn't necessarily specify a budget upfront.

    Of course the designer in that situation could have been a little more savvy and said, under these circumstances I'll do one room at a time and limit her losses.

  • pps7
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Alot of design services (kitchen, landscaping) offer free services if you buy the products through them. If not then you pay x dollars design fee. That seems fair. That poor designer!

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo,

    On the topic of budget, I've worked with 4 designers over the years. I never recall specifying a budget. And I don't recall any pressure to do so. I understand all the well argued opposing views, but that was just my experience.

    The reasons I didn't specify a budget included
    1. Lack of experience and knowledge, especially about what to the trade and custom items would cost
    2 Cost-consciousness ... I think all of us would rather spend as little as possible, so one fears that if you give a high number your designer will be sure to achieve it.
    3 A willingness to splurge on high end and unique items that would normally be far above what Id expect to spend on an item
    4 Like many posters, I did not have an actual budget constraint as a practical matter. For people at a time of their life with limited resources, competing demands, etc, there may be a very real concrete budget ( eg the amount you have in the bank or amount available on a credit line, etc). I didn't use a professional for my first apartment, so by the time I hired one I was able to allocate a fair amount toward furnishings. I do not recall any specific conversations about that with designers, except for the last one I used, to whom I said something like "It is important to me not to waste money, and I am not a snob about using things that are inexpensive, but I am also willing to splurge on things that I really think are special".

    Money is as personal and shame-ridden and individual as sex. Like the poster who said they did not want to be "silly and wasteful" and your point about the faux horror of professional newscasters acting as if they were unaware how you can spend $6,000 on a shower curtain.

    But my experience with designers is they have a bit of a skewed view of the world. I feel as though most of them instinctively go for the best and most expensive. When I was newer to the process, I would trust their judgment too much about what was appropriate and reasonable. But, truly, to whom can you delegate that judgment?

    My favorite (and most humbling example) are the curtain rods in my old dining room. There were three of them. One was oversized, over a pair of French doors. They were carved wood, gold leaf I suppose. They cost $10,000. I hesitated, but I went ahead. I learned that my personal "silly and wasteful" definition is $10,000 on three curtain rods. I bet many would agree.

    Ten years later, my latest "designer" is part of the GC team. I did not end up using her for selecting anything for the home, because the GC was so behind schedule I didn't want to take her time away from project mgmt. Anyway, my DH came with an idea for the vanity in the mudroom powder room of our rustic ct farmhouse. We already owned an antique crackled white vessel sink, He wanted to mount it in a potting bench. You can get those for about $500. The designer propped a (lovely) custom made version for ... $18,000.

    That galled me. The whole idea of the creativity of the potting bench was how to make something nice and interesting and get good value. FFS anyone can make an interesting vanity for $18,000 with no creativity at all. She didn't get the idea of "value". Quality, yes, but at what price?

    By the same token, in my family room, I fell in love with a unique piece on 1st dibs for $6800. Wildly overpriced, but when I first tried to buy it it was "sold", then a week later they called back and the person decided against because of shipping and other costs to Canada. Is it silly and wasteful? Probably. Is it what I would ever have "budgeted" for a TV console? No. I am happy with it? Yes.

    So that is what I mean about budgets, and maybe also explains my fundamental wariness of designers.

    Sorry for the hijack, guys!

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, but if the designer knew there was no way in h377 you would spend $18,000 on a vanity, they never would have suggested it. Since it was open ended, they did--you essentially presented that "possibility" yourself, so in essence you and the designer fed into each other in this regard.

    When I went house shopping, my budget was $400K, based upon a certain type of property. This is actually slim pickin's in my neck of the woods, especially for what I wanted. That said, for a year, I looked at properties all the way up to $650K with my Realtor, because that is where I could stretch, but my "budget" Target was in the $400s and my Realtor knew it. And the house that I eventually bought was not under $400, but it was within my target budget.

    If I had give her my "up to", we really would have wasted a lot of time, because that's not really what I Wanted to spend, even though I Could.

    If someone only knows what you Could spend, that sends quite a different message from what you Want to spend. Telling someone clearly what you Want to spend, sends a pretty clear message, especially when what you want to spend is Reasonable. This is a defining point. It means that you can entertain spending more because it is not your cut off point but to spend more there must be a good reason. --I would never spend $7000 on some random coffee table, for example, but IF i had the $7000 and IF the right Nakashima piece was available at this reasonable price, I would strongly consider it. But other than that I would Want to spend $1000 or less.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Going back to the OP's predicament: A designer needs to have some idea of what she wants to spend especially if she's furnishing the entire apartment at once. Otherwise no one has any idea what to look for. I can go to the Boston Design Center and find a coffee table for 7K and one for 700 on the same floor.

    There is always a budget number in a designer's head. It's either the one you specified, or it's the one they imagine you want to spend, because you haven't specified.

  • kswl2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I will weigh in as a person who always, ALWAYS has a budget, not because of "limited resources" ---but because that is how we live our lives. And in truth, everyone has a budget, even if they don't choose to call it that. Mtnredux, I doubt you would have paid $68,000 for a tv cabinet, or if you would splash out to that extent, you wouldn't pay $168,000 for one, and both those would be price points for someone. So, in my view everyone has a budget, if not for the aggregate then at least for individual pieces, which amounts to the same thing in the end.

    Of course, I have never been led down the garden path by a designer as some of you seem to have been. The story about the curtain rods is awful, and ironically, I also have a story about a designer and curtain rods with a very different outcome. Before we moved to our current house and were discussing window treatments, the designer told me to expect a cost of about $2500 for a fluted, gold leafed rod with nice finials for the MBR. I was amazed and very dismayed. Later, as i was exploring in the basement, i found a curtain rod that had obviously been taken down from that bedroom and propped up in a corner when the second owners took it down to put plantation shutters throughout the house. It was a bit more coppery than the gold the designer wanted, but he gladly used it. We couldn't find the brackets but he told me that he always has them painted the wall color anyway, so they just recede into the background and don't become a feature. So the brackets for this rod ended up costing about $20, and this is a designer whose job previous to mine was a master bathroom gut remodel with a $100,000 budget. The right person can use whatever budget and materials are appropriate to the jobs they take on.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pal,
    I think, if the designer was listening to me when I said "It is important to me not to waste money, and I am not a snob about using things that are inexpensive, but I am also willing to splurge on things that I really think are special", she would never have suggested a $18,000 substitute for something I showed her that cost $500. I feel the undercurrent with a lot of designers (and many high end retailers) is to make clients feel like they should always go for the most expensive thing, and if they don't it's either because they are not discerning enough or cheap or plain old just couldn't pony up the cash. It's done very subtly, but I think it is an attitude with many designers (or maybe just NYC!)

    Kswl,
    I can comfortably say i would not have spent $68,000 for a TV console. But I would not rule out 10, or 20, maybe even 25. Would it be helpful to say I don't want to spend more than 25K, but I'd like to spend 3k? I don't think that would rule out much. To make matters worse, in a true budget I would have allocated zero; until I came across the piece I liked I planned to hang the TV on the wall!

    Maybe my curtain rod story isn't really that awful. You were at 2500 for one, without decorative brackets. So compare 7500 plus pretty elaborate brackets to the 10k i spent. I guess we should all go into the curtain rod business!

    Marcolo,
    If you were shopping for yourself in that showroom wouldnt you at least look at everything, from the $700 to the $7000? And haven't you once or twice ended up buying a piece that was a multiple of what you looked to spend?
    kwim?

    Again, sorry for hijacking this piece but Marcolo asked me to sing! And I understand all of your points but my advice to this poster is to ask the designer to recommend a budget and then make it an iterative process.

  • kswl2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I thought the same thing, that I should go into the curtain rod business! But people are funny and will splash out on different things. My husband, who thinks nothing of resurfacing our tennis court every year for the perfect bounce, was honestly appalled at the price of a rod that at least would have functioned for decades without needing maintenance :)

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think NYC is a part of it. My friend at Chanel has clients who buy every basic Chanel quilted bag in each new color every year. He has a client who spends about $50K with him every year. But I still think that is awfully vague. "Willing to splurge" could mean $18K for a vanity, especially in NYC. Doesn't matter if you saw one for $500, because for some people that is how much elasticity they have.

    And in NYC I have been treated, since I was about 21, that I could afford to buy whatever I was looking at, including $25K paintings in galleries, because they Just Never Know.
    Compare that to Philadelphia, where you get completely ignored in certain stores unless you have a certain "look".

    And, no, I wouldn't even Look at a $7000 sofa if that wasn't in my budget, except maybe out of the vaguest curiosity--and I don't think most people would either. If I had a client who suggested that they wanted to really look at it, sure, I would assume that that's maybe what they wanted, and the $700 one would never be good enough for them.

    A local car dealer here carries Rolls-Royce, Aston Martin, and Buick at the same location. I don't think most people comparison shop on that level just because they are in the same building.

  • dandylandy
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, this has turned out to be a fascinating read! I am the OP and thank everyone for posting about their experiences and ideas and philosophies of furniture acquisition. :-) Sorry I disappeared for several days but work gets a bit hectic at times, and I'm just now resurfacing.

    So, using the amazing powers of the internet, plus speaking to some friends and family members who have decorated in a taste and style that I like, I came up with a preliminary budget.

    After interviewing several people, we picked one, and so far we are very happy with her. She has been very communicative - looked at the photos of the things we said we liked, and the room photos (from magazines) that project the "feel" we want, and she has been suggesting appropriate lines and pieces.

    And yes, I did want to discuss budget with her, so we would be on the same page. I do NOT want to even look at a $7000 coffee table - the one we currently have has a constant parade of tiny fingerprints on it and bits of goo, and I just can't imagine worrying about a piece like that, which is SOOO perfect in size for kids to put their coloring books and sippy cups on. It would be terrible to be a child in a house and not be able to use the coffee table because your parents spent a ridiculous amount on it and don't want it to be used!

    She actually did say that she was appreciative of the budget guidelines during the interview. After we hired her, she suggested I look at the websites of a few companies (that I'd never heard of) and I've seen some pieces that look nice, so we will plan some shopping trips together to a design bldg (I think she said Lexington near 34th St, need to check my notes) when work slows down, and maybe the same day or another one, we'll go to the Decorator's bldg near Bloomies (on 3rd Ave) as well.

    For you NYers or frequent visitors to NYC out there, you might already know these places and it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on "can't miss" showrooms... Even if a place is astronomically priced, I don't mind walking in and looking around as you can glean some inspiration from it. The one place I told her I'd been to several times already during our reno is the A&D bldg, b/c there were a lot of kitchen/tile/plumbing type stuff there, and just a few furniture places which I'm already familiar with, so no need to visit that one together.

    She did not give me the impression that she will waste our time (yes, we are paying by the hour, with a small commission on the furniture) - she seems very organized and efficient. I do think this is fair, b/c her hourly rate is quite reasonable, and in total, the hours this will take are not huge. She also lives in NYC, and honestly, to make enough to live here, I do think the commission to the decorator is necessary, so we have no problems paying that.

  • kswl2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your approach sounds very sensible. It's been many years since we lived in NYC and our trips there now are to see friends and plays so I am way out of the loop and have no showroom suggestions. I did want to recommend houzz.com to you though. You can set up an account that both you and the designer have access to by sharing the password, and save pictures you like to it . She can then access it to see what you've saved in your "chair" photo collection, for example. Houzz is a fabulous site and has a great iPad app... my friend and I call it house porn :)

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There is a designer's area on Lex near Bloomingdales, I believe...

    I think Room and Board (Soho, Broome I think) has some decent sturdy US made furniture, a lot of which is scaled to get into NY apts, but it's retail, she may be able to do better pricing overall.

  • sushipup1
    8 years ago

    Nonsense. The same 3/2 ranch-style house can cost $1M in the least expensive part of Pebble Beach, $500K less than 20 miles away in Salinas. And where we are looking in PA, about $350K.

  • Vertise
    8 years ago

    I can't imagine it has anything to do with anything. Furnish as you please!! Well, within reason, of course.

  • Olychick
    8 years ago

    a "pro" reviving a 4 year old thread kinda smells like spam.

  • IdaClaire
    8 years ago

    I flagged it as spam last night.

  • Jean Fairchild
    7 years ago

    I have a new angle for all of you to chew over for me, i am retired, moved and starting with a clean slate. My place is small but so are my resources, yet i have no clue how much of them to allocate to furnishings since the "nut" has to last as long as i do, more or less, while also taking care of possible roof replacement, plumbing disaster, appliance replacement, etc. i bought a new sofa impulsively but hate it as it is not good quality and that shows, (the store would not allow returns) and a used dining table for which I had the chair seats recovered. I need bathroom upgrades, some kitchen work, lanai furniture, bedroom furniture, window coverings, carpets or area rugs, lighting and fans throughout-- quite a bit, actually. I have some art. I have no sense of direction on how to proceed, it is all in a jumble since I moved here and I feel overwhelmed most days as While I left all the big pieces behind, I brought all the small things with me and am boxed in with loads of too much stuff and no one to help get rid of it, or figure out a plan. Please advise on all of the above.

  • Jean Fairchild
    7 years ago

    In re the previous poster in NYC, you must have somewhere in that city what we had in Chicago which were outlets for hotel furniture and office furniture, where such furniture is sold to the public at very low price when the hotels redecorate their rooms, lobbies, and offices the same. It is usually very well made, strong, the fabrics wear like iron ( good when there are kids or pets in the house or you are furnishing a rental apartment), there are draperies, huge rolls of carpet and more. Maybe not for everybody (bring your blacklight), but a real buy for the money spent .

  • jn3344
    7 years ago

    Start a new topic, Jean. Dont resurrect someone else's 2 years old topic.