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Posted by avidinternet
Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 18:38
|These are inverted pleat drapes that are lined with blackout lining. When I went to hang these they were a mess at the top, they seem to have been sewn wrong after I started looking at other examples of inverted pleat draperies online. |
All the drapes I see don't show any seams as mine have (3 of them you can see horizontally at the top) and 1 large seam placed on the outside of the pleat panel vertically (It was not hidden in the inside pleat like it should have been.)
What has this person done wrong when sewing these drapes to make them look this way as opposed to all the correct panels I see online??
Thanks for any help you can give me as I have to speak to the person who made these soon and I really need some input on this subject.
|Here is an example of what they should look like at the top...How do I know what has gone wrong in the making of these so that I can better explain to the person who made them? They are in India btw... :( Help|
|Do you have them backwards? Probably not, but it kinda looks like it.|
|Try ironing out the wrinkles.|
|Hi, I did iron out the wrinkles but the buckram is super stiff and it was all stitched the front and back side of the pleats, to the buckram, so it has no give... No matter how much you iron it still looks like the picture. Now what?|
|Would steaming help at all maybe help loosen up the stiffness? Sometimes I have found that ironing does nothing on certain fabrics.|
|Hi SaraKat, These are silk, so I ironed and steamed both. The heading is so thick nothing seems to work...|
|There seem to be 3 problems. I can see a double row of stitching clearly visible on the front side of your curtains and no stitching shows on the example of what you expected. Second there may be a problem with the tension - some of the puckering may be related to that. It may also be that the buckram used was too stiff. |
I hope you are able to find a solution.
|Geez, with that style drape it should have been easy to hide those vertical seams in the folds. I don't think you need to tell her what she did wrong. You just need to tell her they are nothing like what you ordered and they are not acceptable. Let her figure out how to fix it! I hope you don't get burned by this person.|
|I hope you can work something out. That's a shame for silk to come out looking like that but I believe the tension is the problem and the sewing person may have used an upholstery sewing machine instead of a drapery one.|
|Avid: Can you take a picture from the back side? Also, I can't see what the drape is hanging from? Rings? Are these ready-made drapes? The horizontal line is looking like a casing to me.|
|I don't know how one makes these without showing the horizontal stitching...it's probably done the way I would've, except I'd have only 2 rows of stitching, not 3. The vertical seam showing should've been buried in the pleating. |
It does look as if the tension was too tight or something as there is puckering in the fabric that shouldn't be there. Perhaps the buckram that was used was too stiff for the fabric.
There is definitely a pressing issue as even below the buckram the fabric is rumpled which shouldn't be.
It also looks like it is hung incorrectly...that last piece should turn the corner and be in a hole in an eyelet in the wall so that the corner is returned properly.
IAC, they are not acceptable and should be returned.
|I'm wondering if the dble row of horizontal stitching could be removed and redone blindly on the other side. That might eliminate some of the puckering. I agree with Annie, that they don't look like they are hung correctly either. Could just be the picture.|
|Professionally done draperies will never have topstitching. There is no need and you picture is the reason why. Apparently she thought it would be faster? I'm not sure, but if you have the stitching taken out, there's a good chance you will be able to see the holes left behind from the needle. When we do inverted pleats the only machine stitching on the header is to the backside to stitch in the pleat, then they are usually tacked on the back to hold the pleats in place. It also looks like she has a seam on the front of a pleat, which should have been placed inside the pleat so it would not be so obvious. |
Silk is withe blackout lining may not look as nice if you don't have a layer of interlining---it just doesn't lay as nice against the "harder" lining (if that makes any sense). The layer of flannel helps smooth out the wrinkles.
Did your seamstress see your photo of what you expected?
|I'm no seamstress but am planning on making curtains as per the link attached. They used pleater tape.|
Here is a link that might be useful: Drop Coth Curtains Using Pleater Tape
|Thank you for all of your replies. Here is a picture of the back side of the drapes with the buckram. |
The seamstress has sewed the entire pleated panel to the buckram instead of leaving a relief pleat going inwards towards the back. I will enclose some pictures of what I believe the backside should look like in the next post...I cannot see that I can add more than one picture per post?
Also to sallymo, I did have her put a layer of interlining in with the blackout lining as well so that the material would lay nicer...You can see how that turned out :(
|Here is a picture of the seam placement that runs down the front 12 feet of every panel...|
|Here is a picture of how I am guessing the panels should have been sewn instead of all the pleats being sewn onto one thick piece of buckram ???|
|What a mess. |
I would reject them completely, send them back, stop the payment, and deal with someone else.
|Agree that these are not inverted pleats as we define them here. Yes, the last pix shows how I've typically seen the back of these types of drapes although the hook section is sometimes reinforced. Removing the bottom stitching from the buckram might help with reducing the tension puckering on the front, but you will likely see the holes left behind. Unless you have access to additional material that could be used and thus eliminate the last two pleats so that the splice can be hidden within a pleat, I can't suggest a way to correct the 12' vertical seam. |
If this is a relative or friend and not a business relationship, then you may have to proceed a bit more gingerly and just perhaps try to salvage the drapes by adding some type of trim covering up the two horizontal rows that to my eye are more offensive than the top row. Then, once the buckram has been freed, you can have them professionally steamed/ironed. If this is a simple business transaction, don't hesitate to address the problem and provide more explicit examples of how you want the drapes corrected or get a full refund. Hopefully you've paid by credit card so have the institution to stand behind you.
|Here's how they look closed and below I will post pics of how they look while opening. The problem is these are 12 ft high so I cannot mess with the tops to get them to look nice each time I open them. As you will see in the next few pictures, because of some thickness? in the top they don't stack back well at all. The seller is telling me I have the pins in wrong...However I have them correctly placed as you can see when they are closed.|
|Here is them starting to be opened...|
|Here is how they are stacking back when opening :( Why are they so bulky and messy?|
|The double row of stitching leads me to believe she thought you would be sheering them on a rod, not adding drapery hooks. Did you tell her you would be using drapery hooks? With my purchase drapes, not custom, there is an either or option, hooks or tabs. which are hidden on the backside~this would have been the correct thing to do. |
As for the stitching in general, she should have used what is called a blind stitch~ask if she has the attachment. She also needs to lesson the tension on the stitch. I definitely would not find them acceptable and would have her re-do them or refund the money. As for re-doing, with the fabric being silk, as well as a solid color, it might be very difficult to iron out the stitch marks. I sincerely hope you can get this worked out.
|sallymo, can you either explain to me or show me a link or something....how does one attach buckram to a drape without topstitching it? I've made a lot of drapes and I always had some top stitching to hold the header on.... |
|PattyCakes, Thanks for your reply...Yes I told her probably at least 4 times I was using a decorative traverse rod to hang them on.|
|Even if she could get them to lay flat, the vertical seams are unacceptable. There is no way I'd keep them.|
|These were not made properly. I have not made inverted pleat draperies, but have made pinch pleats. That appears to be some kind of drapery pleating tape, but not buckram. Buckram should be completely enclosed at the top of the drapery and the pleats stitched vertically without those horizontal lines of stitching. This is the way I have done them:|
Here is a link that might be useful: Buckram heading for pleated draperies
|clt3 has linked to the book I use. I've made many pairs of pleated drapes and the buckram is completely encased and invisible. There shouldn't be any stitching visible along the top. These look very amateurish. |
My fabric store offers custom sewing and has samples of different styles of drapes hanging in the store. Do you have something similar near you where you could go in and take a picture of what they're supposed to look like? I'd be showing that to your seamstress and asking for a refund.
|Believe me, it doesn't have to be a 'custom' drapery store to see what the problem is. I ordered drapes from Penney's and the stitching is a machine done blind stitch.|
|Honestly, these look like photos of snow pants not silk drapes. You should not have to accept them like this. Were they done locally or ordered online? Have you contacted the seamstress yet?|
|Annie, see the link given above by clt3, it has a great series of instructions. When the pleats are actually sewn in there is no reason to topstitch the buckram. The panels from the OP were simply made by someone who has no clue on how to construct window treatments. Just being able to sew does not make one automatically know the ins and outs of making these, anymore than a drapery workroom would know how to construct a suit.|
|The other issue is the bulkiness, which could have to do with the blackout lining as well~was it used in the heading also? |
Not all black out linings are created equal. Read on.....
Here is a link that might be useful: linings
|I would forward all those photos to the company where they're made and then stop payment on the credit card until you hear what they plan to do. I certainly wouldn't accept them.|
|Snookums, Yes I have contacted them and sent pictures but they are in India so with the time difference I haven't gotten their answer today yet. Yesterday they said I had the pins in the wrong places and I should move them and they will be ok... |
What about the seams running all down the middle of the panels...they overlooked that part.
I didn't have the hooks in the wrong places. So I started this thread to see what the problem might be and then started researching how to make drapes so I would know where they went wrong.
|Pattycakes, how would I know if the blackout lining was used in the heading also? I read your thread and understand about the blackout lining. Hoe do I know where they stopped it?|
|Oh, Dear. I hope you are able to recoup your money.|
|Do you have a photo of their ad for the drapes? |
I would think they could understand this:
|Here is the photo of their ad...How did you post those pictures side by side?|
|I would tell them you want to return them. If they insist there is nothing wrong with them, file a claim with eBay to get your refund. Hope the shipping wasn't a lot. Unless they have superior customer service and cover their own error, you will be responsible for the return shipping charges, unfortunately. I would ask for them to cover return charges if they don't offer first, since the error is fully their own. If they go the extra mile there, be sure to give + feedback.|
|It costs $370.00 just for the shipping to return these I just checked :( I'm seriously bummed out...|
|This kind of thing just makes me furious. |
I would stop payment, keep the curtains if they refuse to pay to take them back, and contact every conceivable agency and online post (like this one) to rat them out publicly.
It's a sad lesson to have to learn, about the dangers of dealing with people with whom you have no meaningful point of contact, and no real recourse.
|Well, then, they should refund the drapes without return. That's ridiculous.|
|What did they charge for the drapes? Sometimes if a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is ...|
|Please listen to me. You may be dealing with some very ethical people or some real scoundrels. It matters not at this point. Your money is gone. If you have an attorney friend or someone who will work for you for little, or no money, just the pleasure of helping you, ask them to get the attorney general in your state involved. Do it and don't be mousy, just get it done. Like I said, these may be salt-of-the-earth people, but they may be scoundrels. Look out for self. Charity begins at home and remember: Bought wit is the best you will ever have.|
|I'm in the drapery business (like sallymo) and the drapes should not have any top stitching. As said previously, the buckram is supposed to be encased in the header and is held in place when your pleats are stitched in, and should not have any straight stitching showing. It also appears that yours have machine straight stitched side hems, instead of blind stitched hems. Also where your widths are sewn together, that seam line is placed near a pleat so it less noticeable when the draperies are hung and dressed. |
I hate to tell you this but inverted pleated draperies are not great to use as functional draperies. It can be done. But it's not ideal due to the bulk of fabric in the header. They really look best as stationary drapes.
Your header is very bulky due to all the layers of fabric, interlining, lining and buckram. A more knowledgeable drapery workroom would hav e given you advise about using them as functional draperies, and then would have proceeded to make the header as low bulk as possible in order to make them operational without a messy look when they are open.
I'm so sorry you got such a sloppy job. If there's any way to return them at their cost, I would try to do that.
I'm attaching a photo of a header of inverted box pleat drapes with interlinked silk i made a while back. These were stationary.
Once again, I think a different pleat style would be better for functioning draperies.
| Thanks for your thougthful post and picture downsy :) |
See these inverted pleats below? They are being drawn back and stack really nicely. They are blackout lined too as you can tell because they are in front of a large sliding glass window and they are mostly white.
How were these drapes made to be so sleek and usable?
|Sallymo - btw - I network with your business partner on the CHF forum and Facebook!|
|It can be done as the photo shows but the header has to be done right for it to work. |
I am curious, in the photos you posted of the back of your drapes, I don't see any drapery pins. Where do you have the pins? Are they lined up with the place where the pleats butt together? I hope that makes sense.
Notice the photo you posted of the back of the correctly done inverted pleat panels - see where the drapery pins are? Yours should be in the same place.
In looking at the photo of your drape in the closed position it looks like you should have 5 pins on the back lining up with where your pleats butt together and the leading edge should have a pin to fit in the overlap carrier, so a total of 6 pins. Is that what you have on them?
|Hi downsy, Yes I have my pins in the exact same place. I have 6 total pins on my panel and they are placed (when looking at them from the front side) right where the front seams are located, but of course on the back side :) |
The picture I show of the back had no pins in it as I have 6 panels and that panel had not been hung.
|Oh golly! I was hoping the pins were in the wrong place! That wouldn't take care of the stitching you're seeing on the front, but maybe you could live with them if they functioned better. They just aren't well made. The photo you showed of the back with the pins in, is how they should look. Sometimes there's a stitch made in "the ditch" through front to back where the pleats meet up too. That's another way of holding the header together. |
Sorry - it seems like you've done everything possible to get them to look right. I hope you'll have luck in returning them and getting the shipping covered, but that may be a long shot.
|Here is the response he just sent me! |
To cut it short I would like to highlight few things :
You Have purchased curtains with Interlining & Blackout Lining, So the Top Will be thick as Silk + Interlining + Blackout have to be stitched together.
Regarding the vertical lines, we have clearly mentioned Each curtain will be made using 1&1/2 width of fabric, As the 1&1/2 panel need to be stitched, there will be a stitch mark when we join panels, this cannot be avoided or hidden by any one in the world.
If you wanted these could be hand hemmed & the Stitch mark on Top could have been hidden, but this is a different product & costs much more, as it is fully hand made.
I have clearly mentioned on massage Sent Date: 29-Dec-2012 12:51:15 IST Hello.
Thanks for the update.
Please note Box Pleat, Inverted Pleat, Pencil Pleat & Diamond Pleat, cannot be gathered to one side, these are only to be tied using Tie Backs if you want to open, Even if gathered a little, it look almost same when gathered.
Like I already said every one has there own different ways of making curtains, we have our own standards set & we have been following the same same for decades, If you wanted or had any particular thing done, you should have Informed us & we would have made it the same way for you, PLEASE check ALL our massages you have ONLY questioned us & NEVER sent details or proper pictures of what exactly you want, all this your doing now if you would have done before it would have been better for bot of us.
Coming to the conclusion, like I said we are NOT find Fault's or blaming ANY one for any thing, there is a problem & we need a solution to this problem that should be suitable to both of us, I REQUEST you to PLEASE send a short & sweet reply what you feel would be BEST. 100% satisfactions is our motto but this will only be possible customers are Cooperative, sportive & understanding.
|Ok he is right you can't hide the vertical seam where the widths are stitched together, however they will be less noticeable when placed next to a pleat as they are more concealed when drapes are hanging. |
As far as the hand stitch comment - yes they could hand blind hem
All the hems and they would be barely noticeable. However, in America we also use blindstitch machines that do blind hems and they are barely noticeable. I don't charge extra for a machine blind stitched hem. I do charge extra if I hand blind stitch.
As for all that horizontal stitching they did in the header - in America professional drapery makers would NEVER do that unless it was a rod pocket drape. Now when I say professional, I mean someone who is in the business and takes the business seriously.
I don't charge extra for headers that don't have horizontal stitch lines showing all across the top of the drapery. That is a custom drapery standard!
I don't know what you paid for your drapes or what he would charge for the product made correctly, but even if he does it right it sounds like he's not suggesting using them as functional drapes.
You'll have to decide if you want him to remake them properly and take a chance they will function better when you get the new ones. At least he sounds like he wants to make you satisfied. If they remake them send him the photos you found, especially the back one with the pins in it. That's a low bulk header and that's how it needs to be made. Hopefully they will know what a low bulk header is.
|OK a new message from him...What would you all do under these circumstances??? |
Thanks for the update.
As you want these with Interlining & Blackout lining, I request you to reconsider your decision & buy curtains with French (Triple Pinch Pleat) Top as this is BEST suitable for your curtains track, you can spend some time & do some research, before concluding.
Still if you want Inverted pleat, We can make these EXACTLY as per pictures you have sent, but then these will be **hand hemmed (** Hand hemmed only on front, so that no stitch mark is visible, but it will be machine stitched form behind so that all linings are tightly secured) & will be made using 2 width of fabric, so that the joint of the fabric comes in center, these things will cost you extra are you ready to pay the extra amount?
We can give you FREE replacement also with the changes ONLY with the tape not being stitched the rest will remain same.
But in any chase you will also have to pay for return shipping, the other expenses of customs & re shipping I can manage.
This is not the end, I welcome any suggestion by you.
For any further assistance please mail me.
|I would not be sending them any more money. What guarantee do you have that the new drapes they make will be done correctly and look good? Maybe just order one new drape to confirm they can actually deliver the product you want.|
|It looks like at one point before they were made he advised you would only be able to gather them to the side to open, not stack? |
Nevertheless, the construction is poor and a professional workroom would not ship a product like that to the customer (and at $400 shipping!).
Nor would they expect the customer to know how to construct draperies! On his web page there were drop downs to make the selections for pleat type etc. I don't like the way he is putting it on you to have advised him how to make them properly at the outset. If this were the outcome, he should have refused to make them knowing full well they would not be acceptable.
I don't know why you would continue forward with this. I would file a claim with eBay to resolve the issue. I don't know what the policy would be re the shipping under these circumstances (poor product, $400 to return to seller in India) but you need to ask them that at the Resolution Center. If you paid by CC maybe that would be another option for buyer protection.
|Hi Avid - sorry I NEVER stay up as late as I did last night and I had to go to sleep! LOL Anyway - now that I'm on my main computer (not my ipad) I can see that white tape on the header of your panels better - the thing we've been calling buckram. It doesn't look like buckram to me - at least not what I've ever seen. It looks more like those heading/pleater tapes home sewers buy at stores like Joannes to use to insert pins to form pleats. I'm thinking they apply that to insert your pins??? Do you also have buckram inside the drapes??? You may but you can't see because its all stitched closed in the header. That could also be part of the bulk. |
That tape is NOT necessary when making custom drapes. You don't need pleater tape! Pins go right into the fabric as in the correctly made drapery you showed earlier.
Here's my suggestion to you - I don't understand what in the world he's talking about that your stuff will be hand hemmed on front and not the back "so that all linings can be tightly secured." Certainly he's not going to hand stitch your widths together? That should be machined.
I don't think they make their drapes the same way that workrooms here in the states make them and I would be so afraid to throw more money at them and get back new panels that have some other problem. I honestly don't think they can make an inverted box pleat header that will be a nice looking functional drape. You need a pro that has done it before and knows how to do it!
If you want to salvage your money, either decide to go with a french pleat (standard triple pleat) but ask for it to be blindhemmed so you don't wind up with the same issue at the top of your drapes and down the sides and across the bottom (all hems). Then at least you will know that you're getting a drapery that will function and as long as the stitch marks aren't all over the fabric (like what they did for you before), you should get a nicer looking drape than what you have now. If you want to salvage with them - find out why they use that tape at the header of the lining side. That shouldn't be on a custom drapery header. The pins are inserted into the fabric - no pleater tape needed. Now maybe that is the kind of buckram you buy in India! I don't know???!!!
Or - cut your losses and buy from a local drapery designer or workroom to get what you want. Try to sell your old drapes on Ebay!
Sorry - what a dilemma! If they weren't in another country the shipping charges wouldn't be so darned high.
|I have seen many India curtains at market sold as "semi custom" work and the prices are great! However, they all have the workmanship you are showing, but not quite as bad! Their standards are different than ours---as downsy has pointed out. I'm sure they can do handwork, but I would still not trust their judgement on this. I hope you can at least get some partial credit, shipping back wouldn't guarantee that it was still done correctly. You might find someone locally who could salvage your fabric, but be prepared to pay for the ripping out and redo---it's a lot of work. More than starting from scratch. |
On a sidetrack note: downsy you are not talking to my biz partner. Send me an email.
|Ah I see. I don't typically make pinch pleat type drapes anymore, but when I did, I made them with the pleater tape....so it can't be encased or else you can't get the pins in. I didn't realize that the stitches to make the pleating would be sufficient to hold the buckram in place and stiffen the drapes sufficiently. Good to know. Thanks! |
avidinternet, I think you have to take your loss and move on. For what it's going to cost you to fix this, shipping alone will eat up any recovery you might get. I'd take the drapes to the fabric store and find a coordinating fabric that can be used to make a wide border, either at the top or the bottom. Or if you can find the same fabric, you might be able to have it attached at the bottom with a seam and a piece of trim to cover the seam. Then take it to a reputable local shop and ask them to fix it.
When I find myself in a similar situation, I chalk up the costs to "tuition".
|There is no way I would spend the money to return these drapes, and I certainly would not let them try again. |
If they were mine, I could live with the top stitching. I could live with the seams. But I could not live with how the drapes fold when opened. I would take a panel to a local seamstress who does drapes and see if the inside top could be redone - remove the blackout lining from the header and replace the pleater tape with something that is going to give the curves you want as you pull them open.
|hi Avid, |
I do a lot of home sewing and at least from the photos you show here, this is just not a professional job -- I'm an amateur and even I wouldn't do those ugly (and slightly crooked) double horizontal seams along the top.
I do a fair amount of business with eBay both as buyer and seller, and as a buyer, you do have some pretty solid recourse available to you to protect your purchase.
IF the seller ultimately won't work with you, file a 'Significantly Not As Described' (SNAD) report via the listing on your My Ebay Purchases page. You can include the photo of the drapes as advertised on the auction page and one of the drapes you actually received. What this will do is put your payment on hold until the issue is resolved, and if the item is found to be not as described, eBay will refund you the full purchase price plus shipping. They can also choose to refund you the cost of return shipping. This isn't airtight, but eBay overwhelmingly supports buyers over sellers, and it's good to have your issue on record if everything goes south with the seller.
Also important: look at all the old feedback for this seller. What have other buyers said? Are there a lot of complaints or negative feedback? Or positive reports about the seller working to fix problems?
Good luck, hope you can get this resolved!
|I suspect the additional cost to redo these drapes to your specification by the eBay seller will be close to the cost of your original purchase. I would not give them any more money. I looked at their eBay listing, and they have a picture of finished inverted pleat drapes, and those also have the stitching exactly like yours, making it more difficult to win against them. |
I have inverted pleats in my MBR and DR, but they're used as decorative, not functional, panels. I always purchase from Village Workroom in Pa, who are incredibly professional and, I think, reasonable.
I don't understand why it's so much to send the drapes back. Wouldn't the seller have had to pay that much to send them to you? How do they make money?
Bottom line for me would be to do as Annie says and chalk it up to life's tuition (love that perspective!).
|Ditto what Dee in Ohio said! I went to their ebay website too and saw the horizontal stitching in their photos on nearly every header style, not just the inverted pleat header. Apparently that is their standard and I doubt they rarely do anything with blind stitching, so who knows what you'll get back from them when they try to "do it right."|
|Avid, I hope all of your conversations with the seller are being done within the eBay email system so all is intact and on record.|
|See how these inverted pleats stack back. Why do those look so neat? I have a couple more I will post as well...|
|These stack back well too, what makes those look so good? |
As for someones question about how their feedback is on Ebay, They have no negative feedback at all, that's what made me trust them to begin with...lesson learned here. Apparently most people have no idea what nice drapes are supposed to look like?
So here's the latest update...
He will redo them all for $400.00 more plus I ship the ones I have now to his US business partner. He will make me a
completely different set of drapes he says, "without any visible stitching anywhere". Making them 2x width so that no seams show vertically in the front of a panel but will be inset inside the pleat.
He says that he will only do them with the blackout lining and no interlining like is in the ones I have now. He says he can make them to look like the ones I have pictured here...
However now I am afraid of having him make this style and wonder if I should just have him do the triple french pleat or euro pleat? My room that I am using these in Has a modern transitional feel to it so I don't want anything too stuffy or old fashioned looking. Suggestions???
|If you go that route, take it through the eBay Resolution Center so any outcome can still be resolved to your satisfaction and you can get all of your money back. Any additional money might have to go through their system as sales so they can get their percentage. Sellers are not permitted to sell outside the system and you might not have their Buyer Protection coverage as a result. |
How much did you pay for the drapes, if that is not too personal? How much is the shipping to his partner in the States?
He does have one negative (1000+ entries) but it seemed to be related to yarn or something. I thought his response was unprofessional.
This post was edited by snookums2 on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 12:25
|I would honestly be afraid to have him do the inverted box pleats because of the stacking issue. If they aren't done right (by someone who knows how to do them and done them before) you may wind up having a mess again. |
Euro pleats are a little more transitional/modern in style than the triple (french) pleat and I noticed he sold those on his ebay website. He calls them something else, and I can't remember now what it was. They are triple pleats but tacked at the top instead of 4 to 5" below the top like a french pleat. Or go with the French pleat.
So it shouldn't cost you a ton of money to ship to his US business partner, and hopefully the business partner makes draperies more in standards you'd expect from custom.
Can you ask for photos of their work? It wouldn't hurt to see some close ups - especially of the header they produce that doesn't have straight stitching all over the place!
Interlining looks so much better with silk drapes. Will he still do interlining if you go with the french pleat? If you can't get them the way you want them - don't spend anymore money with them.
|Hi snookums, Not to personal I paid $1475.00 so now if I agree to have him make another pair it will be total $1875.00 plus shipping of a 54 pound box back to his US affiliate for " 3 Pairs of Inverted Pleated Top (To match Picture attached) Hand Hemmed Dupioni Silk Curtains each in width 36.75" X 130.50" Drop length X 6 Panels,(Each curtain will be made using 2 width of fabric, for joint to come in middle, The un gathered width or width at bottom will be 74" for each Panel), backed with ONLY Blackout lining in color 269"|
|I just glanced at this thread... |
I'm not at all experienced in drapery making - but I would absolutely, positively take it up with Ebay resolutions.
Paying $300+ for shipping is not solving the problem.
I have dealt with companies such as blinds.com - and we ordered wood blinds AND duet shades that did not fit properly. They sent us replacements for free and did not require us to send the originals back.
Did you pay by CC? If so, I would to that route as well. Take out all the stops and spend your time on trying to get a full refund. Then take your business stateside; perhaps to someone local who you can talk to in person.
|Downsy, He's going to be making them(they guy from India) not his US associate, I am just shipping them to the US associate. |
I think he was saying the interlining along with the blackout lining was making them too thick to stack back like the picture I have of the white and blue ones above???Any thoughts on that...
|Also - |
If you look at the sellers feedback, there are very few purchases over $100. Most are for silk cords, tassels, that sort of thing.
So, although the seller has received over 1000 positive reviews, only a handful are for custom draperies.
|Make sure you ship with tracking and signature required. Your purchase amount is over the just tracking requirement so be sure to get a signature in case you need to file a claim through ebay. |
Hope the new curtains are made correctly.
|I don't know how that price compares but that is an enormous amount of money in my world that I would not be taking any chances with. |
Here's Calico Corner's statement on the inverted pleats (mentions stacking issues, stationary panels best) and using silk (should always be interlined).
An awful lot of this money is being tied up in shipping but I guess the wages over there might not be much.
Here is a link that might be useful: Inverted Pleats
|I'm sorry you had to go through this, but I would not expect this person to correct or re-make your draperies to your satisfaction. He simply doesn't know what he's doing. To send that mess off to a customer is outrageous! He has stitched the stiffener OVER the formed pleats, rather than properly encasing the buckram (or whatever it is) to form the pleats. There is absolutely no way these draperies will ever stack correctly. Rather than deal with him any further I would have had the buckram removed by a competent person and tried a professional steaming to see if that alleviates the wrinkles, and steaming will sometimes close up stitching holes. If your pins are properly placed the draperies should stack without the need of the buckram, especially with all the weight of the linings. If that failed, I guess I would consider my options, but doing any further business with this work shop would be out of the question --He's going to need someone to tell him how to properly construct your draperies. |
You might need to chalk this one up as a bad deal all the way around and find someone closer to home that has a reputation for quality construction. Hope you find satisfaction somewhere in this sorry situation.
|If you want any recourse with eBay, you must not mess with the drapes.|
|I think the Indians do beautiful work; it's a language barrier. I deal with it every single day. They mean well but...even the interpreters ....|
|So patricia43, How do you get your idea across when dealing with them?|
|I'm leaning towards going with the parisian pleat because of what everyone has said above I think it will be able to stack back nicely and may be easier for them to execute. |
To get the look in this picture here with my silk drapes, should I be using the blackout lining WITH the interlining? Or will the interlining make it look too bulky?
Is just the blackout lining enough to give the silk drapes the body they need?
|One thing I noticed....the curtains that hang well and fold well, are hanging on rings on a pole curtain hanger. You did say that you wanted your drapes on a traverse rod which is what you want but the other pictures show rings on a pole curtain. I feel your pain....ordering something and it not turning out like you want. I would talk to a local seamstress, discuss and show her/him your problem and see what they say before spending money to send them back. As I see it, there is no guarantee that they will be correct next time.|
|I notice on the Village Workroom link that they don't do an interlining when doing the blackout.|
|I certainly would not trust him to make them correctly...|
|Avid - that parisian pleat is what I call a euro pleat. Its a 3 finger pleat tacked at the top. It would stack tighter and better than the inverted pleat. It is possible to do that with interlining and blackout lining if done the right way and they will stack and function fine. (Low bulk header.) I just don't know what this guy's capabilities are, based on the work he did for you on your drapes. |
My thoughts on interlining - I don't always use it on silks and faux silks when I'm working with blackout lining. It really depends on the client's budget and wants. It does give the drape a nice, full rounded appearance when used.
Honestly you are taking a chance having him rework the drapes. I don't know what to tell you. To have a professional rework the drapes will cost you ALOT. Can you imagine picking out all those straight stiched seams EVERYWHERE on your drapes! Sometimes it costs less for a drapery workroom to make something from new rather than taking apart the old and reworking.
I read your comment about the panels you will get from him if you allow him to rework them and his finished width measurements at the top and bottom. He must be working with 44" width goods because if he is going to use 2 full widths of 54" goods - the width after hemming is around 92" to 93", before pleating, not 79"
So really you just have to make a decision - Try to fight the charges through Ebay and get your money back and start over with a reputable company in the US or take your chances and give him a shot at fixing them and giving him more money to do it.
|Woa! Ebay???!!! |
Sorry, I've not followed this for the past day. Make use of the EBAY account resolution and open a case if too much time has not elapsed. Ebay tracks all your communication and will stand behind their customers in a valid dispute. You can copy a summary of this GW advice to help support your case perhaps. You should be able to get your $$ back directly via a credit from Ebay to your account after a few dilly dally attempts to communicate with the vendor. Your credit card company will also be another source, so call them and put this transaction on notice of a pending problem. Good luck!
|The first step in the process is for them to let the buyer and seller work things out, so you're not obligated to return at the outset. You can still be doing all this information gathering.|
This post was edited by snookums2 on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 21:38
|Avid, I am in a totally different situation. I can talk with them as frequently as I wish and have several interpreters and I can have virtual classrooms with them in which to discuss things and sooner or later, somebody gets it. I once had a sweet young man who told me they conference and then decide which one is closer to the meaning of what I am saying . . . .|
|Downsy, He is going to make a new set not remake these. |
I am hoping just using the blackout lining will look all right. I mean with the interlining and the blackout lining they did look like snow pants so maybe all that lining was too much?
aside from the bad stitching...
Patricia43, I can see how one would need the setup you have to communicate because the language barrier is truly a problem.
|Wondering why you want to continue and keep trying after seeing the workmanship. What if the second set looks better but not that good. Will he accept another return or say you are being too picky?|
|snookuns2, Because I have been working on the exact color of the silk I want and with him for almost a month now. The silk is beautiful. And he now has my pictures and we have quite the agreement written up about the stitching this time as well. |
All going through Ebay so if something goes awry again (which I hope it won't) I will do a charge back.
Since he's willing to fix it for the price of shipping I feel it's worth the second chance. I hope I'm right...
|I see! Thought it might be a specific fabric. Glad you are going through eBay to work things out! Hopefully he will put his best seamstress on it this time.|
This post was edited by snookums2 on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 23:39
|Avid - I know you want to salvage your investment and I can 't blame you for that. Now that you've given him photos and construction info, I am hopeful that you will get better drapes this time! |
Did you decide to stay with the inverted header or go with the Parisian?
Good luck! Keep us posted. ;)
|Why do you want blackout lining when you have interlining? |
Blackout lining is nothing like ordinary drapery lining.His workmanship is awful but think the blackout lining is what is responsible for the bulky look. And someone correct me if I am wrong but if you are using two widths of fabric isn't one width cut in half and added on either side of full width? I would not trust him to make decent draperies and if he is making new draperies why does he want you to return the mess he sent you originally?
Not like you would use these....
|Hi Downsy :) I decided to go with the Parisian. I figured it was a much safer bet. |
For the money I am spending on shipping these back I could actually keep them for $100.00 more. These panels are 38 wide and 130 1/2 tall x 6 of them interlined and blackout lined. Do you think I should pay the extra $100.00 and just keep this pair as well and see if someone wants to buy them?
They are so tall I'm wondering if someone would be able to cut these down and use them to remake with a different header? If I could get 4 or 500 for them I would be breaking even and saving money in the long run. Thoughts on this????
|He's remaking them new. The old ones are his. He might be able to use the fabric to cut some of his losses. Isn't the $400 for hand stitching on the new ones?|
|i'm sorry you're going through this. but i don't understand all the effort to try and communicate your wishes to these people. there is no excuse for professionally made draperies to go out to a customer looking like that. if there were any issues with the lining or header you requested, they should have told you that making them to your specs was simply not possible. given the fact they've already botched one set of drapes, why proceed any further? i understand you want to know why other drapes using the same header may traverse, but really what is the point? the fact of the matter is, a more experienced person can make this happen, but clearly you're not getting this from them so end it. go through ebay and do what you can to be reimbursed. looking at the drapes they sent i see no reason you would be the one to pay to ship them back. cut your ties with these people and be done with them. they aren't going to get it right the second time, either. good luck. i hope it all works out for you.|
|$400 for the new ones. $400 to ship the ones I have now back to India. |
He will be making the new ones out of completely new material, taking pictures as he makes the 1st panel and emailing them to me for my approval as well.
If I want to keep the ones I have now too it would bee $500.00 to keep these along with the 400 for the new ones. So instead of sending these back i can keep them for 100.00 more.
Now would that make any sense or not? This is a lot of fabric lined and interlined so maybe I could sell them to someone who wanted to cut down and remake the tops for 400 or 500 dollars and that would save me that much money...Does this make sense?
|You're spending another $800? I thought you were sending these to his partner in the States and paying $400 for the extra handwork on new drapes. I would never ever pay $400 to ship his mistake back to him. That's ridiculous. Move away from this company. |
Do not go the pictures and approval route. Photos are not clear enough and he will hold you to that approval in the end.
No, I don't think your latest plan makes sense. If you keep them, then you have bought them. Receiving new ones is another $1500+ product. I can't imagine he would agree to that, you receiving two sets of expensive drapes. He can use the old ones for something which is why he wants them back.
|He already said and agreed that if I wanted to keep them Instead of paying $400.00 for the new set and $400.00 to ship these back($800.00 total) I could pay an extra $100.00 So ($900.00 total)and just keep these as well as get the brand new ones. |
So for the extra 100 bucks should I keep these and try to sell them to recoup some of my loss too?
|I'm sorry but he is working you, imo. He sends you awful drapes and then has you paying him another $1000 to correct his errors. He is no fool.|
This post was edited by snookums2 on Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 0:20
|Not on your life would I give this person another chance! Chalk it up as an expensive learning experience.|
|"does this make sense?" |
no. not at ALL.
|"So for the extra 100 bucks should I keep these and try to sell them to recoup some of my loss too? " |
I wouldnt keep them, anyone you sell these to is likely to be just as unhappy with them so there's no point. Why can't you send them back to his US associate (cheaper than sending back to the seller) and just get a refund? Honestly that is what I would do and then have them made locally.
|sallymo and downsy, a question for you....if you made the standard pinch pleat and then hung the drapes backward, wouldn't that essentially give the same look as inverted pleats, so shouldn't they stack in the same way? I mean, the way I'm thinking (which could be whacky as usual) is it's just a matter of what to do with the excess fabric once you make the pleat...you could make it a box or a pinch or whatever, no?|
|You could do it that way! You'd have an issue with stacking even with that! Consider the drape is stacking together the thickness of triple pleat in the back (probably 3/4" thick even tacked tight). |
If you look up to a photo Avid posted earlier is the back of a properly done inverted box pleat with a low bulk header - which should operate much better than what Avid has paid for.
All the photos Avid linked to were done by interior designers or professionals - at least to my eye. She posted lovely, well done drapes that were a good investment made by the homeowners. (Not to say that a home sewer couldn't do the same thing. With knowledge and the proper tools - anything can be done!)
|Who do you think would want to buy this horrible mess. And deconstructing all that drapery material and stitching would not be cost effective, even if you gave them away. No matter which pleat style, with or without the blackout lining, if his "STANDARD" is to sew buckram across the pleats, it's never going to work! He might as well pleat your drapes and sew a piece of cardboard across the top -- it makes no sense. I can't fathom that he doesn't get that. If you're sold on working with this man, stay on top of his every move with dialogue and pictures. Good luck. I'll be interested to see how this turns out.|
|I am not a seamstress, but the product you've received is one hot mess. There is absolutely no way that I would pay another ten cents to this outfit for any custom drapery construction. |
Also, I have no idea how Ebay works, but I would definitely be getting my money back. Hopefully you paid with a credit card for your own protection in a transaction of this amount.
I find it very hard to imagine that there's not a seamstress closer to where you live who could make you a more professional looking drapery product.
What's the saying, fool me once? So sorry to see what you are going throught, but IMO, if you send him more money and expect a different result, you will probably be very disappointed.
|This is not as bad as it seems in terms of financial loss. You can get a full sales refund through eBay. You might even find another fabric you like better. As far as returning the drapes to him, he has someone in the States to send to which should be a far more reasonable cost than back to India. Since this is completely his error for faulty workmanship (that should never have made its way out of his company), he should send you a prepaid label for that to be done. The losses should be fully absorbed by him, his own lesson learned. I would hope eBay would take one look at the situation and require him to prepay the return shipping (usually return shipping is not covered). A good honest seller would not think twice about doing that. And if he doesn't, ding his stars. |
P.S. Oh, and by the way, he has wasted far too much of your time and energy. Even subtracting what's been spent trying to work out a solution.
This post was edited by snookums2 on Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 12:27
|Is the only reason you are working with this person is because he has the fabric that you like? Maybe he would sell you the fabric only and you could have the drapes made locally?|
|Please don't keep these wreck of a drapery set nor give him any more money, even though he seems to be trying to work with you on the problems, he clearly does not know how to make drapery and all of his solutions benefit his pocketbook, not yours.|
|Doesn't the top of this look awful from outside the windows? I've never seen curtains exposing the workings like this. I would consider this if having them remade. |
Nevermind, I see it will not show outside in your case. Still a good design point though! Sometimes that area shows outside.
This post was edited by snookums2 on Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 13:31
|Time to cut your losses, dear. The tone of your posts seems to indicate that you think this is somehow your responsibility, and this vendor is taking full advantage of that. His fear is not that you won't be happy, but that you will spoil his reputation on eBay, and impact the sales of his shoddy work. |
Through eBay, your only loss will likely be your time and energy, but in this case those are considerable. The world is awash in fabric, and that nearer than India. Let it go and start over.
I think your real responsibility is to the rest of the eBay community. That's the only way it works for good buyers and sellers.
|How do we not know if these are some that he messed up for another customer and decided to pawn off on you and did he force the other customer to buy another pair as he is trying to do to you? Just some things you need to think about. This seems like you are dealing with a con man.|
|I haven't followed this entire thread, but wanted to share an experience I had about 3 years ago ordering a set of Bergere chairs off of eBay arrived not as advertized, broken, glued back together etc. I spent many hours trying to reason with seller who also agreed to refund money if I would return ship (at significant cost to me), then I resorted to trying to resolve thru PayPal and was given same song and dance that I had to return ship the product to get a refund. Finally I contacted my credit card company explained the situation to them and they said since the product was not as advertised I was not required to return ship and I could contest the charges, which I did successfully. I just had to document with pictures the problems (which were obvious as yours are), and my attempts to seek a resolution with the seller. |
I agree with others' suggestion to cut your losses and move on, not sink any more time and money into this mess. BTW, I had good friend who had many custom window treatments made for her home in India and they are stunning. Difference is, she is from there, went there on a trip to pick out fabrics and work with a reliable drapery company. This place seems very ameteurish, not sure you'd get a different result with anything else they construct.
|From looking at the pictures of their other Ebay listings, it doesn't look like they are very good at pleats of any sort. I wouldn't invest any additional money with that seller, but would just try and your money refunded, even if you have to pay the postage to ship them to his US associate. |
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Here is a link that might be useful: see what I mean?
|What a mess! I would not give the vendor another penny. Pursuing a full refund, however, will be tricky and a bit self serving on your part since the example photos on the eBay site clearly show the stitching you object to. The workmanship is terrible, and for all you know the curtains were made by children being paid $5 a day. Personally I would settle through eBay and start over.|
|Hi everyone! Here's the latest update. I'm not paying him anything until he makes one new pair to my specs. I have given him aver a dozen pictures of what I want from all angles opened and closed. |
He is going to make a new panel and send me pictures of everything of the new panel on Tuesday. If I like how everything is constructed then I will OK it and he will make the other 5 panels, I pay basically for the shipping and he will then send the total 6 panels to me.
So that's where it stands as of today. I'll update everyone on Tuesday after I get those pictures and hopefully I have good news to share :) If not I'll cut my losses then.
Thanks again for all the help and advice, you ladies are the BEST!!!! <3
|if you get anything close to what you're looking for, i'll eat my feet. good luck, but i wouldn't get my hopes up.|
|Hi everyone! Here are the pictures of the new set he made and took pictures of for my approval before he finishes the other 5 panels. |
I'll post the other 4 pictures below. I think he did pretty good this time.
|This is a picture where they are holding them up...|
|Here's a closeup of the top and side.|
|And the back he wants to know if I wanted the eyehooks to put the pins in or leave it plain??? I was thinking the eyelits but then he asked how many inches from the top do I want the eye ?|
|I changed the style to the euro pleat and this is one of the example pictures I gave him.|
|Avid - that's much better. I sew in my euro (parisian) pleats differently though. He has his pleats sewn in a longgggg wayyyyy. I stop at the buckram or header area. So 4" - 5" is plenty. |
Notice how your panels don't start opening up till about 7 to 8" down because it looks like he's sewn the pleats in to about 7 to 8" down from the top. In your 2nd photo - It looks tightly pulled starting just below where the header area is. Note on the photo you showed as an example (the ones he didn't do) - the pleats are sewn in about 4 to 5" and then stop. That allows the pleats to start to fan out sooner and give fullness to the drape. I know your panels are very long, but in the case of a euro/parisian pleat - they shouldn't be sewn in as long as he has them.
As far as the blindhemming - what he's shown you is a GREAT improvement!
I don't use eyelets for my pins. The drapery pins get inserted right into that seam. If you are using a decorative pole - the top of the pins need to be 1/2" below the top of the drape.
This post was edited by downsy on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 17:53
|I agree the pleats are unusually long. It reminds me of a pintuck or smock top. What is the 3 inch band that starts around the 4-5 inch mark? |
The fabric looks so different! Amazing how colors get distorted.
|You don't want the pleats that long, do you? Is it a different pleating style? |
Why is the original picture eggplant, but the new one blue? Is it the same fabric but you changed your mind re:color? The hem looks to be pulled a bit too tight. Ask him to loosen the tension on the bobbin.
|OK so from all your feedback I will tell him to make sure the sewing of the pleats is only 4 to 5 inches down and then stop them. |
The color of the silk is actually a steel gray color. The 1st pictures I posted I took with my cell phone so the color isn't that accurate but the color is gray not purple or blue :)
|Another reason to only buy locally, made in the USA. Good luck.|
|I think you're still taking a big chance and setting yourself up for another disappointment. He may have the right idea, but his techniques need improving. That blind hem is never going to press out and I can't understand why that portion across the top is so doggone tight. For that matter, he should have pressed that panel to give it its finished look before showing it to you. I can't envision them hanging nicely. But I wish you well in this endeavor.|
|I'm mostly a lurker, but wanted to share my experience with a vendor in India. About ten years ago, I was admirinig my neighbor's new curtains. She said she got them custom-made from some guy in India. Got his number from her and talked to him. After seeing some samples, selected the fabrics I wanted (silk for the LR and bed covers, faux-silk for the DR and BRs, and drapery fabric for the kitchen cafe curtains and valances). Gave him as accurate measurements of every window as I could, chose the pleats and length, etc. in about thre weeks, they were all shipped to us. Not a thing I didn't want or expect. We had someone come hang everything up and it was simply beautiful. Every single item. It's been 9 years and I still have them up and they look just as beautiful. Ad the prices were relatively low. Have given his name to others who've seen my curtains and asked where I got them. |
I have been a member for over ten years and I'm not pulling for any vendor. Just wanted to share. I'd post pictures if I knew how, but will try when I have some time.
|more money and still not right.|
Having lived in India for two years, I can attest to the fact that in general they are absolutely excellent at this type of thing, and create the most beautiful curtains, pillows, bedspreads etc. So this has nothing to do with it coming from India.
This guy either doesn't know what he's doing, or doesn't care. Hopefully it's the latter, and he'll care more now that the OP has expressed her concerns.
|kateskouros, I haven't paid him a dime more. He is making me some example panels and taking pictures of them so I can change whatever I don't like :)|
|I think the "tightness" is from someone standing behind holding them up. They look really nice now, to me. |
In the "reading for comprehension" category, when I first read your OP, I thought YOU were in India, and THEY were in the US!!
|How did the draperies turn out, avidinternet?|
|Hi snookums, Funny you should ask as we just had them hung up today and they turned out very well. |
He remade all of them in the euro pleat style. No visible seams anywhere. Ended up making them exactly like the example pictures I gave him.
Thanks for everyone's help, I really appreciate it and when I get a few minutes in the next couple of days I will take some pics and post a follow up thread so everyone can see how hey turned out :)
|Glad for everyone that they turned out so well!|
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