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neetsiepie

Is this a new reality?

neetsiepie
11 years ago

I've been talking with so many women in their late 40's/early-mid 50's who are just fed up. Women who have been working all their adult lives, have empty nests and are still vibrant and want more out of life. But they have husbands who are either un-employed or underemployed and not contributing their fair share. Some of the husbands do work, and contribute, but are just stuck in a rut.

These women dream of being free, but realize that if they divorced, they'd lose half of all they've worked for all their lives. Retirement is in sight, but they're afraid they can't, because they'll have to continue supporting their husbands. So they go on, miserable and cranky.

Is this a reversal of years ago, when husbands had their mid-life crisis' and left the wife and went on with their lives? Usually they always left to take on another woman, but the women I know are just wanting OUT, not an affair or to move to another man. Why did the men do it so much easier? Even after taking the financial hit, they still managed to get out and do ok.

Women at 50 today are still vibrant and active, but our husbands seem to be winding down. I know that there are a lot of times I want to be rid of my husband, and if it weren't for the fact that I know I'd lose half of my pension and money if I left him, I'd divorce him. I do love him, but I feel a lot of resentment, and don't want to care for him anymore. ALL the women I've talked to feel this way.

Is it just a menopausal phase? Or is this the new reality?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Comments (56)

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I spent 10 years working while DH was at home...he's older than I buy quite a bit, we have no children, and he retired early. However, during that time, he did the laundry, the grocery shopping, the housekeeping, he made my breakfast and lunch and did all the dishes. So it actually worked out pretty well. Of course, there were issues like his idea of a clean house and mine were different.....I used to write "dust me" in the dust on the coffee table, or grab his index finger and walk him over to the cobwebs and point at them with his finger to encourage him that it was time to clean up. 2 years ago, I retired early too and now we are both at home and enjoying life.

    I think anyone would feel resentful if they feel they are supposed to be in a partnership of any sort, but where one partner wasn't pulling his/her weight. I think this requires some serious communication to express one's unhappiness, but not in a nagging way, but in a productive way. Perhaps counseling is in order to ensure the old communication patterns are broken so it becomes effective for both partners....

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have heard very few men complain that their wives go out and do things with other women.

    I hear a fair number of complaints from women because their husbands like to hang out with the boys.

    I think the hanging out that women do with other women is often more mature and constructive: book clubs, committees, etc. (but not always)...but the same women consider it juvenile that their husbands want to do things with other men, like "they never grew up".

    Of course sports and drinking are often involved, so the activity May be more juvenile, but I have women acquaintances who will do things with other women 4-5 times a week who completely resent the fact that their husbands want to hang out with other men, even once every week.

  • blfenton
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our generation of women, the baby boomers, are also the bra-burning, women-libbers generation. We decided in the 60's and 70's that we wanted it all and could see no reason why that shouldn't be so. We've worked and strived for that, we're healthy in both body and mind, and we want to keep going. We realize that there is more out there than just our homes and we've been there and we've liked it. Our DH's haven't gone through those changes, they have been on the side lines doing what their fathers did, most of us are not doing what our mothers did.

    I'm not surprised that there is a certain restlessness amongst us. I see it with my own friends. The husband of one of my running buddies is retiring in March, he's only 55 and plans on sitting on the couch to watch sports and to take holidays. She runs her own company and has no plans to slow down. It will be interesting to watch this unfold. On the other hand, one of my friends *allows* her DH to play hockey with his friends once a week and all of his other time has to be spent with her even though she has book club, wine time with friends, etc.

    My DH was laid off 2 years ago and decided to take a 2 year sabbatical. I made it perfectly clear that I was not his playmate and that he could not come for coffee with my friends and me. I suggested two things - volunteer work which he never had time for while working and reconnecting with old friends. (and yes sports and drinking have been involved and as long as there is a cab at the end of the evening I'm ok with that). He has had a great time but it's now time to get back to work.

    The two of us have always believed in having a together life but also having a separate life with our own friends. It has worked for us and so far no life in a rut has crept in. However, I do get tired of cooking dinner every night of the D#@% week!

  • neetsiepie
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Interesting insights. I think Blfenton is right, the feminist uprising in us has led us to believe we can be everything we want. Nearly all my girlfriends are professional women, so I guess I see this more because they've been in the work force for years, competed as men as equals in the work place, raised their kids and so on and now have more money than before, more free time than before, and want to have FUN. The women I know want to go on adventures and play sports and go out and drink & dance.

    I do go out and do things with out my husband, and I spend a lot of time with girlfriends, but sometimes I DO want him to come along. I'm going to Las Vegas in April, and I've asked him repeatedly to go with me. We both love to hike and love geology; I know that there are amazing places to go other than the strip. I am going to a concert, and I would love nothing more than for him to go with me, but he has absolutely no desire to do that. He won't commit to taking the trip with me. I'm going with or without him, not letting him hold me back, but I want him to come have fun with me.

    Our relationship will hobble along-I've told him I want to go to counselling because we're just not on the same page, but I have this fantasy about living in a little cottage with a couple of cats, no TV, lots of books and a forest to walk thru.

    I just marvel at the women I know who are in their 60's now, widows for the most part, who are just as youthful and energetic as ever. And none of them want to remarry. That is so fascinating to me. It's almost like once the child-rearing is over with, women would rather gather with other women. A youthful lover once in a while, perhaps, but no more raising children, or husbands!

  • bestyears
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This reminds me a little bit of the interview I heard on NPR the other day with Judd Apatow, who has a new movie out, "This is 40." A big part of the story line is the comedic difficulty in married/family life. Judd was talking about discussing some of the lines with some of the writers and actors, who were all about 40, and drawing on personal experience. At one point one of them somewhat sheepishly mentioned that he fantasized about his wife dying, and the freedom he would then have (to have sex of course, LOL, but other things too, like sitting around in his underwear, etc.). Judd said there was this immediate resonance -nobody realized that other people fantasized about that! So the good thing about sharing things, to me, is that you realize, "Oh well, crap, everyone's bored with their husband" -and again, to me, that immediately makes it so much less ominous. I guess because it then becomes obvious that it's just a part of normal married life, just as backtalk is a normal part of raising kids, but you don't leave them when it happens. Men and women ARE different -I'm so much more aware of that now than I was when I was in my 20s and 30s. We can't make men into our girlfriends. We go out to lunch and places with our girlfriends and we laugh and share and feel a real connection. And then we come home to grunts and a running commentary about the weather. All I can say is, God knew what He was doing when He allowed us to talk inside our heads without the words flying past our lips! I have spent many hours silently grousing about my husband -there are days I can't stand the way he chews....

    I think there is something biological that causes us to examine our lives when we hit our fifties. We're feeling the pinch of time and starting to feel unwilling to compromise on what we see as our true self. I have felt it and do feel it.. And yet, the idea of my husband walking around in the world without me just feels wrong. I just feel that we are each other's to care for. So I feel annoyed with him frequently, but I feel so caring toward him. Sorry, having a hard time really putting it into words.

    So for me, I look at this as a phase of life, that will ebb and flow just like the other phases I can now look back upon and see clearly. I think we have to work hard to keep a connection with our husbands, and most of the work will be ours, because they just, most of them, don't seem to be able to manage it. And we have to look to our girlfriends, sisters and others to keep our emotional lives going.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are you sure you would lose half of your pension and money? If I were in that situation, my DH wouldn't get any of my pension. Even if he were entitled to it, he wouldn't accept it and I know that would be included in any divorce agreement. Even if you would lose some of it, if that is all that is keeping you there, you may want to check with a lawyer. One conference to ask where you stand would be money well spent.

    Personally, I think decisions like that should not be made based on money. Being content would be more important to me than staying in a situation that was causing me stress and unhappiness. Life is way too short and I wouldn't want to cheat myself of a tranquil life (on my own if necessary) lived with joy and laughter.

  • leafy02
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think there are two parts to the issue: 1) are there a lot of women supporting underemployed/unemployed men these days and 2) what to do about a husband who is no fun.

    I don't know the statistics are on the first part. I have one or two friends whose husbands are underemployed but their underemployment is the result of decisions made long ago and that their wives were fine with at the time. If you marry a guy who works in a bike shop and plays guitar on the side, I am not sure you get to be mad about it 30 years later when he does the same thing....

    Regarding the second part: to me it seems like one thing if someone doesn't want to go see chick flicks with me, or hit up the fabric store, and another if they don't want to go on a trip that would involve mutually enjoyable activities like hiking. That would hurt my feelings. I could very easily tolerate someone who didn't come along with me when I am planning activities they don't like, but I would be fantasizing about living alone, too, if DH said no to vacation fun.

    All of my friends have husbands who are 99% less social than they are. I have two male friends who are very social and do things like book club, take classes for fun, professional associations, etc. and neither of them are married.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are a number of things societally and latter-evolutionarily that contribute to marital problems.

    Until the 20th century, people got married about the time they were biologically prepared. Puberty was later, marriage age was younger. Now, with 9 year old girls going through puberty (hormones in food and plastics) and boys starting to follow suit, we are biologically prepared to reproduce much sooner and not societally prepared to marry for 1.5 -2 decades hence.

    At the other end of things, people used to die of infection, disease, in childbirth. Both men and women often married multiple times. Plus marriages were based upon suitability rather than finding the perfect soulmate.

    There are other things that never the 'tween shall meet between the sexes.

    I have a friend who, in complete seriousness would still be married to X if X had understood that he "got really bored with myself having sex with the same person all the time." It had Nothing to do in his mind with his feelings about X in anyway, including his sexual feelings about X.

    I think more marriages would work out if one partner could understand that sexual curiosity outside the relationship is NOT necessarily a complete betrayal. Do I think this is every going to be something worked out between the sexes? No. I don't think the men are wrong for being able to separate it, I don't think they women are wrong Either, for Not being able to separate it...I just don't see common ground on this in a typical marriage.

    (The one thing I Do think is wrong is men who basically cheat and then buy off their wives with a car or jewelry or whatever...if it's expensive enough the women "forgive" the husband. I think this is a form of being a john and a hooker and both parties in this type of thing are wrong. Either you accept the infidelity or you don't but accepting payment for it is a bit wrong at least on my moral scale.)

    It would be much easier if the sex partner and companion didn't Have to be the same person in some relationships. One is very lucky to find someone who meets all the criteria.

    As far as interaction, one of the great comforts of my relationship is being able to have companionable silence, and time spent simply in proximity, without having to DO something or SAY something. But it sounds like women don't like this much.

  • blfenton
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bestyears; You make some good points and I love this "All I can say is, God knew what He was doing when He allowed us to talk inside our heads without the words flying past our lips!" You are soo very right.

  • beaglesdoitbetter1
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I find this topic really interesting. I am younger than most in this thread (29) and I just got married this summer after 4 years together. However, we definitely have a "non-traditional" marriage. For one thing, I don't do any of the typical wife stuff, I never ever wanted to cook or do laundry and I don't do those things ever. We both work and we have someone come in to do the cooking/cleaning and laundry a few times per week although DH does his own laundry. When we do cook things, he is the one who does the majority of the work although I'm in the kitchen w/ him. We are also NOT having kids.

    The more unusual thing, though, is that my DH lives in our house in PA year round and I spend the winters in FL for 6 months and he visits. We both like this because we are together almost all the time during the time when we are living in the same state and we do everything together (get pedicures together; go shopping together; go for tea, go to sports stuff, etc. etc). I have girlfriends I still spend time w/ from college, etc. but I do not go anywhere ever w/o my DH when we are in the same state (I don't really drive, so I literally don't go anywhere w/o him). So we have our together time, but also our time completely to ourselves. I would also never ever tell my DH that he couldn't go hang out w/ his friends and he wouldn't try to tell me how to spend my time either.

    Our situation is very specific to us but a lot of my friends also have less-than-traditional setups as well, in many cases w/ the wife as the primary source of income for the family and the husband staying home and filling the traditional housewife role (if either party does). In addition, almost every single one of my friends did not get married until age 28 or 29, after finishing grad school and getting established in professional positions.

    I wonder how much marriage has changed, if at all, for people getting married now, as opposed to for those who got married 20 or 30 years ago, and I wonder if people will redefine marriage to work for a generation of women who are the kids of feminists and for a generation of men who were raised by feminists mothers.

  • patty_cakes
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I chose 'to walk', giving up a life of not having to work.

    It *is* a choice~you sometimes have to give up something to get something or lose yourself in order to find yourself. I've never been sorry.

  • yayagal
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When I got married at age 18 (and not pregnant) it was 1959 and, prior to our marriage, we discussed all aspects of our potential life together. I was determined that I would not spend my life "not doing" what someone else doesn't want to do and he agreed. If either of us didn't want to go or do then it was okay but the other would still do it. That's been our marriage for 53 years. Yes, there are days I can't stand him, no marriage is without those feelings and sure he must feel the same. We have two homes so either of us can take a vaca with friends or together or alone. He hates traveling and I love it. I've been all over the world while he stays home and does his hobbies. Neither of us are ever bored. I feel it's a person's own responsibility to make themselve's happy and so I do. He does the same. Actually I think our marriage is much more exciting than most people that I know. So the answer is, if you love the guy Pesky, then there's nothing stopping you from doing all the things you'd like to do, just go with friends and you'll notice that you won't feel resentful or hurt because you've taken away the need to have him with you. There's no harm in it and you'll feel fulfilled. After all we're only human, you can't expect a mate to have to comply, that wouldn't be fair. We all have our ways to find joy. A person who prefers to stay home may be just as happy or even more happy than someone enjoying Venice. We do have a less conventional marriage than couples who do everything together but ours is perfect for us. Think about it, you can stay and still have it all.

  • judithn
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Was reading a report just this week from an academic research group (nonpartisan, made up of scholars/urban planners) about how we are moving into what they call a "post-familial" era, which means more and more people are making decisions to skip marriage, children, etc. The report examines the reasons for this change. It's based on statistical analysis of public marriage and birth records in various countries around the world. The report is intended for use by policy experts and urban planners, in the end it says families are very import for social stability and suggests various approaches to policy and urban planning that will support familial well being. So, maybe being unhappy in your marriage and/or never getting married IS a new reality (to address the original poster's question). Not the part of being weary in a relationship where the distribution of labor feels uneven and one feels they are being held back, but the part where people are deciding to be single and actually living that lifestyle. According to the report, it IS a new reality and it's happening everywhere. Planners are interested in what it means for investment in schools/education because some other research has shown that people with children tend to be more interested in those things, and also what it means for long term issues like the environment, their word showed that people with children were more concerned about what kind of world their descendents inherit than those without and this has policy and planning implications. Just thought it was interesting in light of this discussion.

  • judithn
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Was reading a report just this week from an academic research group (nonpartisan, made up of scholars/urban planners) about how we are moving into what they call a "post-familial" era, which means more and more people are making decisions to skip marriage, children, etc. The report examines the reasons for this change. It's based on statistical analysis of public marriage and birth records in various countries around the world. The report is intended for use by policy experts and urban planners, in the end it says families are very import for social stability and suggests various approaches to policy and urban planning that will support familial well being. So, maybe being unhappy in your marriage and/or never getting married IS a new reality (to address the original poster's question). Not the part of being weary in a relationship where the distribution of labor feels uneven and one feels they are being held back, but the part where people are deciding to be single and actually living that lifestyle. According to the report, it IS a new reality and it's happening everywhere. Planners are interested in what it means for investment in schools/education because some other research has shown that people with children tend to be more interested in those things, and also what it means for long term issues like the environment, their word showed that people with children were more concerned about what kind of world their descendents inherit than those without and this has policy and planning implications. Just thought it was interesting in light of this discussion.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow...this conversation has triggered so many thoughts...I'll just jot them down here.

    Is "the shift" because of the "the change" in hormonal and other influences? I certainly went through a huge emotional change as well as a physical one and it's ongoing in terms of redefining my life and what's important to me. Dr. Dyer has a video and a book called "The Shift" where he talks about how, as we age, the need to satisfy our ego (career, success, wealth accumulation) diminishes and our need to live with purpose increases (add value, serve others, leave a legacy). I don't have it but I remember he had a list of the 10 most important things in life to men and women when they were younger and when they were older and very few appeared on both lists...as we age, our priorities change. It's a question of whether our spouses change with us or whether there's enough flexibility in the relationship for one to change while the other doesn't.

    Re divorce, all men are alike....so you might as well stick with the one you have.
    ;)

    Re sex outside of marriage, Pal, that may work for some, but for very few. (I suspect Bill and HIllary agreed to an open marriage decades ago.) Esp in this age of disease. And in fact I wonder how many women don't like their men to go out drinking with their buds precisely because of their fear that it may include other women... I also think there is a personality type that drives certain people to live large in all aspects of their life including their sex lives...it's why so often we find politicians, CEOs, generals, etc. fooling around...the challenge, the forbidden fruit is all very attractive. I always suspected one very successful but unfaithful person I know, was married for decades, finally divorced, then remarried shortly thereafter...I think he missed the intrigue and the forbiddeness...when you're single, no one cares how many people you fool around with....after all, he ended up cheating on the 2nd spouse too. Don't know if he's cheated on the 3rd spouse or not.

    I think women have a very strong need to commune with other women. I cherish the relationship I have with my GFs whom I've known since kindergarten. The time we spend together is literally a therapy session for us and I think our husband's are much happier after we've been together as we spend much of our visits venting and screwing each other's heads back on so we can bravely face what the world throws at us until the next visit.

    Companionable silence...yeah, we have that...he reads the paper, I gardenweb!

    I think it is important to recognize that no one person can completely fulfill another's needs, and that's what friends are for...I try to encourage DH to spend more time with his friends...buddies he had when he was working and such, and for some reason, he is really reluctant to. Instead he spends 2 hrs a day at the gym and has created his social network there which keeps him happy. I'm delighted as, I think social isolation is not good and men who are retired may be more subject to it than women...at least in my experience.

    I'm also delighted as that gives me a couple of hours a day to have the house to myself...something which is really important to me...when I do my projects or go shopping or spend time with GFs, that's DH's time to have the house to himself. Definitely critical, at least to us. Having the freedom to spend time together or not is really important in a marriage. Friends of ours work together, play together, go to the gym together, do everything together....it would drive me nuts! And life it too short not to spend time doing what you love...if your spouse doesn't love it, then don't force him/her to do it with you...so long as there is also together time that allows the marriage to grow as well.

  • stinky-gardener
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Like fish in water, we often don't see or examine certain programmed assumptions we have as human beings. One of the deepest & most unconscious assumptions we have is that what we think is true. We live by the unquestioned assumption that if we think it, it must be true. Since everyone has different beliefs (conditioning), this conviction causes a lot of problems in relationships. A great deal of energy is expended trying to convince others of what we believe, or defending our ideas.

    Ideas are just ideas. They are not that important, but we are programmed to think they are-that they create our identity. (I have a bumper sticker on my car that reads-Don't Believe Everything You Think-to remind myself of this daily!).

    Conditioning takes a toll time & time again on relationships. We assume the problem is a lack of love. Often what causes a breakdown of the relationship isn't a lack of love, but valuing ideas over love. Being "right" becomes more important than loving. Whenever we find ourselves struggling with someone or with life, we are identified with the ego. Being aligned with our Essence, (Our True self, the Divine, the Holy, Love) is the experience of letting go-allowing. We allow things, our partners, & others, to be the way they are.

    It's our thinking that gets us in trouble.

    Thinking is the ego's domain, for the most part. It conjures up scary stories, wastes our time & energy. The egoic mind has lots of ideas about what it likes & how things should be done, & it offers them nearly constantly: "You should sit up straight. Don't slouch." "This is how you make a bed properly" (Or clean a kitchen, or mow the lawn, or conduct yourself in public, etc.!).

    This is all head stuff. The key place in our being is not located in the head, but in our Heart. When we drop out of the head & into the Heart, we are dropping out of ideas & conditioning. The Heart advocates unity over separation, love over being right. It is willing to allow the other to be as he or she is. When you are *in* your Heart, not your head, conditioning (shoulds, oughts, rules, ideas) won't feel compelling. You see your ideas as *just* ideas, & not necessarily good ones. They no longer feel like absolute Truths. Conditioning isn't right or wrong, it just is.

    Having said all this about accepting, conditioning, & allowing- remember our Essence is Pro-Love. We are here to learn love, & relationships are our teachers. If your relationship is not helping you to learn love, but instead is fostering enmity, then maybe it is best to leave it. When interactions are overwhelmingly abusive or negative, & you are unable to turn that around, then it's likely you & your partner are not meant to be together. If you have tried everything to transform the negativity within you & your relationship & have not succeeded, then staying may not be the loving thing to do for anyone.

  • tinam61
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I so agree with Yaya in that you must be happy with yourself first - no one else is responsible for your happiness. I also think it's very important for each spouse to have their own friends and interests. Hubby and I have things we love doing together and then there are things that are our own seperate interests. We both enjoy getting together with our own friends and together with couple friends.

    Oh! I will say something else that I think is important - each spouse should have money of their own. Credit in your own name, etc. IMHO, I don't think one should feel they must completely rely on someone else for financial support.

    Interesting topic and views!

    tina

  • gsciencechick
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am in a slightly different position in that I am the same age (turning 50 in 6 months) but I have only been married 6 years. We still like each other, LOL. I met DH when I turned 40. I figured I would just live my life, and given that 90% of people marry at some point in their lives, if it happened it happened. I was unattached for a long time, and it is NOT easy to try to meet a decent guy. If you think your DH is boring/unproductive, you should see what's out there! Boring is maybe not so bad if he is otherwise a good man. DH and I match up well, except that he is introverted while I am extroverted. He is rather shy socially despite that his job requires public speaking on a regular basis. I wish he was more social and maybe join some sort of club or sport group, but that is just not who he is. He has one close friend, and we will go out with them to concerts, etc.

    My oldest brother just got married for the third time at age 65 (he had been divorced nearly 20 years). They had a traditional wedding with tuxes, white gown, and 75-guest reception. He retired, too, from a factory job. My SIL just turned 60 and is a VP in an IT-related field. So, yes, she has the "better" career, but they have made it work. He likes yardwork, etc. She will also probably retire in the next couple of years because her work is consolidating locations. They both have grown children. My niece is having her first baby in Feb, and my SIL has 3 grandchildren.

  • yayagal
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All of these posts are so interesting and stinky-gardner, I love everything you wrote and you did it so well. Tinam6 I also agree about the finances. I owned my own business and never ever needed money from anyone and I do think money issues can cause havoc in a relationship. When I was in my 40s we had a group of 20 couples who went on vacations for many many years together. By the time I was 50 only three couples were still married. So it's been going on for some time.

  • Olychick
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, as one of my friends says, "Heterosexuality is a miracle."

  • SunnyCottage
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have this fantasy about living in a little cottage with a couple of cats, no TV, lots of books and a forest to walk thru.

    Well, I'm happily married for the third (and final time), and really wouldn't want to imagine life without my DH ... but I will admit to harboring this fantasy too. I think it's probably a very common one for many women, regardless of their relationship status. I think that as we grow older, we become so much more in tune with who we truly are, and just genuinely savor our time spent alone, delving into the things that bring us the most joy. I used to feel a bit guilty for my fantasy, but no more. To me, it just signifies that I'm happy and confident just being who and what I am, and I don't need a man to validate me.

  • SunnyCottage
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As far as interaction, one of the great comforts of my relationship is being able to have companionable silence, and time spent simply in proximity, without having to DO something or SAY something. But it sounds like women don't like this much.

    Oh my God ... are you kidding? I crave companionable silence, and have at long last found it with my DH. My last two long-term relationships were with men who loved the sound of their own voices. My second husband practically never shut up. (I have a vivid memory of being on vacation with extended family, and we all looked at him at the same time and told him to "shut his stinkin' trap.") How I love the fact that my DH and I can sit together without feeling the need to speak and fill the empty space.

    I'm glad you said this. It just occurred to me that this is a big part of why I'm so happy with my DH.

  • neetsiepie
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love this thread! Really, it is interesting to hear that this is a common (more or less) theme, and it's also something that is more of reality.

    In my own relationship, it's a work in progress. I have a mental pro/con list going on, and it's more weighted to the pro, primarily as a dear friend pointed out to me that DH would literally drop everything if I called him to tell him I had a flat tire and needed help. I tend to major on the minor in my own relationship, and lose sight of the bigger picture. This past couple years, I've finally found ME and like who I've become. My complaint is that my DH has changed for the worse...become an old man and no longer that fun guy he used to be.

    It's not just mine, it's so many other women that I know, and this is so very different from when we were all still raising kids. Most of the women, also, are on their second marriages. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. Too many of us had that first, naive marriage and found a much better man later on...just find that the change is in US,not them.

    I have stepped out of my shell and made this past year be all about me, doing new and adventurous things, and this is where my malaise about my DH has come in. I DO love him, but I think that HE'S changed, too...he's just winding down, acting like an old man, not the fun guy he used to be.

    This seems to be a common thing with the women I speak with. He's just given up and become OLD.

    I often joke with my friends that our retirement plan will be to have a bunch of little cottages with a central dining area (seperate kitchens, because you know...women NEED their own!). We all live kind of communally-and look out for one anther, yet all still have our space. I suspect that that might be more common in the future.

  • stinky-gardener
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Yaya! I so appreciate the thoughts you shared! Particularly: "...it's a person's own responsibility to make themselve's happy and so I do....there's nothing stopping you from doing all the things you'd like to do..."
    I think you challenged a big myth that guides our culture: the mistaken message that the *purpose* of relationship, & the best way to express love, is need fufillment!

    True, when we love someone, we often gladly give to them, but the driving purpose of our relationships should not about fufilling the needs of another, or seeking to have our own needs met.

    Love & deep connection is not about needs, but is expressed through a deep joy found in simply *being* with the other. A Loving relationship brings deep contentment through the experience of sharing life as it unfolds...however that looks or takes shape.

    "He/she doesn't meet my needs!" is the voice of something other than love.

  • kswl2
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know if it is a new trend or not, but I personally do not know any couple who fit the description in the OP. I'm thankful I don't have that particular problem; DH is active and adventurous and still quite willing to go to Paris for a long weekend

  • msrose
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I'm happy to hear that good marriages exist. I got divorced after 22 looong years of marriage. I believe someone used the phrase "young and naive" and I feel like that's what I was. Actually, I also believe my husband put on a very good front until the day we said "I do". I tried for years to make it work, because I thought I loved him, but he never put the effort in. I guess I'm a little (okay alot) jaded because of my marriage and I do see alot of divorce and cheating in marriages around me.

    I've been single for 3 years now and don't have any desire to date. I'm enjoying doing what I want to do when I want to do it and I enjoy doing things with my friends more than I ever did with my husband. I guess if some super wonderful guy was handed to me on a platter, I would take note, but I don't believe he exist enough to go looking for it.

    I was a stay-at-home mom for years, so I had to go back to school to get started in a career where I could support myself. It was hard work, but I'm so glad I did it.

    I really don't think this generation is any more unhappy than in the past. I think we just have the guts to do something about it.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    removed :)

    This post was edited by palimpsest on Fri, Dec 14, 12 at 21:23

  • 3katz4me
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well the unemployed 50 something DH might be the new reality as I have that situation as do a couple friends. May just be an age/economy situation though. Fortunately I have a good job unlike one friend who has pretty much not worked since she started having babies.

    Aside from the unemployment situation, I don't fit the picture OP describes. I've been married 34 years and DH is my best friend. He makes my life fun and interesting and without his support and encouragement I would not be where I am today. With his latest bout of unemployment I told him he should maybe just consider himself retired (age 55). He's not an ideal house husband but he makes great dinners for me and generally takes care of errands and things in his own good time. Overall it does make my life a lot easier to have him around (vs traveling all the time as he did when he was working).

    None of my friends are divorced. Most seem pretty happy though you never know. A couple don't seem very happy but I think the women are willing to put up with it in order to maintain the lifestyle they enjoy with a husband to support them. I would hate to feel trapped with a jerk husband because I couldn't support myself.

    We too don't have any kids so never had to go through the empty nest adjustment. I see some people really struggle with that. It seems like once all their time is no longer focused on the kids, they realize they don't really enjoy each other's company much. Overall I think I'm pretty lucky as we were very young and naive when we got married at age 21.

  • Elraes Miller
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I lost my husband at 55. He was the love of my life, our marriage was friends, lovers and special pieces that all fit together for a wonderful marriage. At 47 he lost his job and bought a business which failed. There was never a day he didn't "work", we had a farm which also kept him busy, plus a passion for restoring cars.

    But I was the income and began to hate my work even though it was a significant position. During the last year he began to change and I thought it was depression due to not being the bread winner which at one time was high income, an an upper level, highly respected job. The loss of what once was. THis period of our life was so difficult and I wasn't capable of working with it knowledge wise.

    Do not underestimate what is going on with your husband, regardless of the circumstances. My husband was very ill and what I believe is the norm for men, he never told me. I will always have regret not paying more attention to what was really going on.

    No, will not get married again. Even dating is an effort and can be expensive in it's own way. I shy away from it. Enough work to keep my life going and thankfully have grown children that share their love with me. This isn't the same as being married to your best friend, something I feel comes along once in a lifetime and am grateful it was part of my life.

  • porkandham
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know any men who are unemployed or underemployed. In my circle the men are the main bread winners, and the women's salaries, if they work at all, are secondary. I also don't know many people who are empty nesters at 50, so maybe this "new reality" just isn't a possibility for us. Maybe still having school age children at 50 keeps the men I know working and vibrant.

  • ellendi
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Along the lines of porkandham, I once was standing in a line with a couple in front of me. They had what looked to be a seven year old daughter with them. I over heard her saying that seven years ago she and her husband were sitting on the couch with not much going on. They had grown children. This daughter (whether planned or not) brought them back to life. They were now going and doing.
    My husband has visions of spending months in Florida. I am not ready to give up my part time job yet and still want to be close to my DD's. Women like to be socially active with friends, kids etc. Luckily my husband enjoys working out and this takes up lots of time. And, he still manages our real estate.
    Pesky is sounds like you are not on the same page with your husband. I would think about some ways to spend time with your DH. My husband and I both like to take long walks. We try to make this a daily thing. I try to say yes when we are invited out to dinner. Weeks could go by and my husband would never think to say that we should go out. If you like cooking, make it a point to have friends over. If you don't like to cook, make something super easy so this is fun not stressful.
    I think it is rare for the DH to take on the role of social director in a marriage. This seems to usually fall on us.
    Pesky, I know you have talked about your marriage before and this time around doesn't sound as serious, so it looks like you have improved somewhat in your relationship.
    Marriage can be difficult, no matter what stage you are in. Donna Hanover once talked about why her second marriage to her high school sweetheart works, even though they are bicoastal. She said, "Our marriage works, because we WANT it to work." Sounds so simple and yet that is what it takes. The decision
    to stay together and make the best out of whatever is thrown your way.

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Technicolor- I am so sorry for your loss.

    My husband got really sick last year and I thought I was going to lose him. Thank God he is recovering and should be his old self again, in the next six to eight months. I have been so fortunate, because I met the perfect man for me, when I was 19. We didn't figure it out for a few years (LOL) but when we did, we have had very few arguments, work together and have a farm.

    We don't have kids (maybe that does make a difference?) but we have lots of nieces and nephews that we love to have visit.

    I hope you all find a happier place in the future (if not already) but please don't blame someone else, if you're not happy. Bite the bullet, give up the money and take back your life. Security sounds good, but prisons are secure. Life is about risk and if you're not willing to take one, you really aren't living. Just my two cents :)

  • arcy_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I find it very interesting we are acknowledging we are the ones who reaped the reward of our mother's "burning their bras", yet I hear a lot of unhappiness!! Most here, it sounds, believed the lie of "sexual freedom". We were told we could have it ALL. We didn't have to choose. I wonder if that was true? I chose and have never looked back. I was successfully professionally employed when I met my future husband at close to 30. We chose to have kids. Going back to a professional job meant a time commitment I wasn't prepared to make at my kids' expense, so he is quick to tell EVERYONE I am the one underemployed. That has worked for us. Are "we" as a generation more or less happy than our mom's who liberated us? I hear a lot of them were on "happy pills". Possibly all we need is Valium and we could be as happy as they were? Oh but they weren't happy either!! We are women whose minds and emotions are GREATLY affected by hormones. To focus the issue elsewhere should be done very gingerly. One could make a choice without full understanding of the root of the unhappiness.
    On the flip side, I can't help but wonder if our mom's had spent more time and concern on making their marriages better, if we had learned that we should not compromise on choosing a mate with similar interests, desires,needs for communication, entertainment, financial plans if we wouldn't all be happier? Society does little to encourage young people to keep their space, self autonomy until they have all the information!! We are doing our daughters and sons a GREAT disservice. Once young people jump to "pretend" unions they become unable to seriously evaluate the relationship. Their psyches PUSH them to "make it legal" it is the way we are hard wired!! Denying that has messed up so many!! Before I committed myself physically and legally DH and I sought counseling to be sure these important factors were in place. LOVE is BLIND and what I hear is there are a lot of people who did not do the hard work before marriage, who chose too quickly. Love does not concur all. Marriage is not a Cinderella fairy tale. My marriage has not been "HARD WORK". We did that BEFORE. To serial marry and divorce without stopping to figure out who you are tie-ing yourself to is just insane. Our mom's were wrong ladies. The sexual revolution has screwed a lot of women. It wasn't about the division of labor or sexual freedom. It was about choosing a mate before they knew who he was and what they wanted from life!! I am grieved to read so many repeated that cycle.

  • graywings123
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    And to that I respond: horsepucky. Some people who chose a life's path - and it works out for them - go on to believe that it is the only good path in life to take. There are simply too many variables in people and in lives to think that you know the problem with society and you have answer.

    There are lots of people who met and married quickly and lived happily ever after. And lots of people who stay married unhappily. And lots of people who married wisely and then it didn't work out.

    Women's equality - or at least the movement towards it - was and is a good thing, IMO.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have to disagree strongly, arcy. I grew up in the 50s, came of age in the 60s, and don't think we were wrong in most of what we worked to achieve. The choices you (guessing you are much younger than I since you speak of "our mothers burning their bras") have are the result of women standing up and demanding respect and opportunities and the right to decide the path their lives would take. The Cinderella fairy tale has been around longer than you or I and it is doubtful that anyone since the 60s would recommend that thinking. Still, while our emotions tend to keep telling us it would be nice, now at least we understand that all relationships take work and time. The best advice along those lines that I was ever given was that it is not 50/50 in a marriage; each person needs to give 100%.

    You are mistaken when you say that the sexual revolution was about "choosing a mate before they knew who he was..." That is simply a ridiculous conclusion. Perhaps if you go back to some of the sources from that time and read their words you will have a better understanding of what women like Steinem, Friedan, etc. were saying.

    It was the generation of my mother (born in the 20s, married in the 40s, raising children in the 50s) who were the ones taking those "mother's little helper" pills, not us. They were the ones feeling trapped.

    Brava for having your wonderful marriage and life, but please do not be so quick to judge others who may be facing struggles. You cannot possibly judge them fairly or accurately. They have probably worked just as hard at their marriages as you have. The young people I know (son is 33), do seriously evaluate their relationships.

    Not going to go point by point to refute most of what you say, but do try to get your facts straight and hold off on making broad judgments based on your own emotions rather than facts.

  • jterrilynn
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very well said Cyn! This is sort of related, I wonder if some of the problems today are due to all the changes over the years and how that reflects on men’s views on their roles in the world today. Much was just a given for them back in the day. I do not see much written on this. My boys are in their twenties and I have tried to bring them up to realize that when they find mates their mates will most likely have a career as well; they have to share in chores and other. Even as a stay at home mom I made them do their own laundry, clean their own bathroom, bedroom ect. I worried that I could indirectly set them up for failure in modern day relationships. I taught them that they would have to work extra hard to succeed as the workforce is now open to many talented women and minorities. I see many young men today sort of lost on where they fit. I think this is an unexpected backlash (lack of better word) on how far women and minorities have come. I remember writing a paper in high school (1977) on possible “role” problems and it does seem to be a very real problem in many relationships today.

  • debrak2008
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There is so much here but I just will add a few thoughts.

    My DH is my soul mate. Can't imagine life without him. Does not fall into that stereo typical male description (which I hate). Is cleaner and neater than I. More likely I'm watching the football game as he would rather be outside. etc. I am late 40's, he is early 50's. Married over 25 years.

    I don't understand is how people stay in a relationship were there are issues. I have a need to solve things immediately. And I mean that day. It seems that women tend to just let things ride and then explode. When a friend was going through a divorce the husband called me for advise. He said that when she had asked for them to go for counseling (years before) he said no as he didn't think they had any problems. Eventually they did end up in counseling, that's when the issues finally came to light. At that point it was too late. I'm not blaming the wife but she should have addressed the issues immediately. Just saying you want to go for counseling is not enough. Speak your mind! I have seen this happen many times as the woman stays silent and the husband doesn't know anything is wrong. The husband at first doesn't want counseling because they don't have a clue what the problem is. The wife thinks its hopeless and leaves.

    DH and I have always thought it was bizarre that people can live together and "pretend" everything is OK. DH specifically said he could not "cheat" with someone and yet being having sex with his wife (me or anyone). He can't understand how anyone does that. I don't know either. I also can't understand how people marry (or stay married) if you are not wildly and passionately in love with the person.

    When I was 21 and married 1 year, Better Homes & gardens magazine had a survey on marriage. I answered and added comments. In the results issue I was quoted. They referred to me as a "young New Yorker" but quoted me word for word. Basically I said everyone has to be responsible for their own happiness. Not depend on their spouse to make them happy. While my DH is the love of my life, I always remember the words I wrote back then. Happiness is a choice. Also, love is a verb. Not feeling "in" love, just start "loving" the person who you at one was "in" love with. Often the old flame with reignite.

  • kswl2
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Whoa, some reactionaries are crawling out from the bomb shelters where they have hidden since the big bad sixties. Or Seventies. I can only respond to the "stay at home and be grateful and happy and realize your hormones are speaking when you contradict your husband" school of thought by repeating the adage that it is better to keep quiet and let people suspect you don't understand what they're talking about than to speak up and remove all doubt.

  • CLBlakey
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I married at 23 still happliy married. I only worked outside the home for 7 years thankfully (hubby went to school not job related). I hated it!!! (working outside the home that is) We are a team and work well together at most things give us 5 min to get our rhythm and we are good to go. I don't have my own money it is but it is not "His" either it is "Our" money. We have been empty nesters for 2 years and it is like we are dating again.

    My mom worked full time outside the home and was never happy. For those of you who do I don't know how you do it, honestly. I tell all my full time working friends "GET A Housekeeper" even for a few hours a week some look so frazzled from trying to do it all.

  • neetsiepie
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Being a working woman vs a SAH is not necessarily economically relayed. In some cases, its preference.

    I would never be happy being a SAH wife, ever. I LIKE my job, I like making a difference in the world, and I like making my own money. I am not a caretaker type of person, so its appalling to me that some would judge me negatively for not wanting to be equal to the men of the world. Id never negatively judge a woman for not wanting to work outside the home...especially if she can afford to do it. I just dont see the appeal.

    What i meant in the OP was if this phenomenon I`m seeing with my friends (and myself) is something new, is it just the womens version of a mid-life crisis, or is this something that professional career women experience? I have no one to ask personally, because mine is just about the first generation post-lib, to reach middle age after working outside the home for 30 years. My friends are in this boat-I have no SAH friends-all my friends and relations work.

    Some of my friends are single (divorces, widowed and never married) and all say thesame thing about the men out there. Most of the married feel as I do, those who make significantly less than their spouses arent feeling quite the same way, however.

    Does the financial iindependencemake a difference? Im very interested in this topic.

  • CLBlakey
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hope you don't think I was judging. I just know my mom was unhappy working and I am totally happy not working. Working nearly killed me it took me three years to recover after I was able to quit. I see women working so hard they deserve the treat of a housekeeper especially if significant other does not help out.

  • kellyeng
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I bet it's not a new phenomenon but that woman are more willing to talk openly about it and are more financially able to be "free" of an unhappy or unfulfilling marriage.

    I have a DH who makes considerably less money than I and is the exact opposite of a household management aficionado!

    I won't lie - it's been a bone of contention with us in the past. I often thought about how I could manage just fine on my own with a lot less grief.

    However, I've adjusted my thinking. DH isn't able to pay half the bills but the thing is - he doesn't demand or expect anything from me except my love and friendship. So every time I start feeling resentful about cooking dinner or doing the laundry or paying the mortgage - I have to pull back and remember that all these things are what I want. He couldn't care less if I made him dinner, washed his clothes, live in a nice house. All of these things are my choices and he's just along for the ride. Luckily, his respect, appreciation, love and friendship are limitless.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't do everything. He's our entertainment coordinator, safety expert and really good at fixing stuff. :-)

  • seagrass_gw Cape Cod
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmmmm, kellyeng....I think I live with your husband's twin. Now that we're both retired and living 24/7 with each other, these are my issues. I often feel bad about myself. As if he thinks I'm his mother, his maid, his cook, laundress, servant.

    I need to verbalize my resentments, because internalizing them is wearing on my health.

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think people should stay in a relationship that makes them miserable. That's no way to live. If you can't (or they won't) fix it, then move on. But don't stay trapped in a situation that you could leave...even if it cost you a bit of your financial security. If there are women out there, who are unhappy, think about the fact that YOU are the one making the money and YOU are the one, who can choose to leave.

    It just seems wrong that there is so much resentment and (seemingly) no real attempt to change the situation.

    I will say, there are some wonderful men out there, but you have to find the right one.

  • Bumblebeez SC Zone 7
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I recently read an older book that was wildly enlightening and helpful to me. To anyone who feels frustrated in a relationship it might help. It's not remotely as basic as it sounds.
    The Pleasers: Women Who Can't Say No-And the Men Who Control Them

    Here is a link that might be useful: Kevin Leman

  • neetsiepie
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tonight I had a long conversation with a woman who was widowed a couple years ago. She's nearing retirement and she told me that she loved her husband very much, but she's happier today in that she can do whatever it is she wants, without having to consult with her husband. She has no desire to remarry-and summed it all up in that she's comfortable with herself and doesn't want to have to change or take care of someone else again.

    It was an interesting conversation, because earlier I also heard from another friend who was widowed less than two years after finally marrying the man of her dreams. She desperately wants to meet someone (she's my age) and be taken care of. But there is a definite difference in life positions, financially and socially with the two women. The first is financially independent, the second makes less than $30K. So could finances have a play in the matter?

    Also, I don't mean resentment in a relationship, I mean the husbands just not wanting to embrace life-they are ready to settle down-not live it up. Women are done raising the family, and want to have fun, do things to enrich their lives-they've worked hard and deserve this time, but their mates are content to stay home and watch the tube!


  • runninginplace
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Going back to a professional job meant a time commitment I wasn't prepared to make at my kids' expense,"

    And here is one of the prime ways that I think women undercut others' choices, probably in an attempt to justify their own. Because the reality, backed by data, says that working mothers aren't shortchanging their children, they shortchange THEMSELVES in order to do everything that needs to be done. It certainly is not easy balancing a career and family. But it doesn't mean children suffer. Kids grow up in loving, healthy families with many types of working/care arrangements. They become happy and healthy adults whether mom is home 24/7 or not. I believe that one of the unforeseen consequences of the women's movement is the need for those who are not working for pay to justify it by engaging in today's hyper-parenting model. Our mothers who were at home with the family back in the day were NOT ferrying kids hither and yon for hours to sports programs and tutoring and lessons etc. They were not so deeply involved in their kids lives that they talked about how 'we' are applying to X college, or interceded in every possible aspect of their kids' lives. Because today there are options, it seems to me we've become a culture in which people really need to criticize others' differing paths to make themselves feel better. And perhaps I just read with a jaundiced eye, but I seem to read a lot more SAH bashing of working mothers than the other way around. Maybe us working moms are just too busy to be snarky (she said snarkily:).

    Choice is just that: choice. If you want to be out of the workforce, great. Do it and enjoy your life. But why be nasty to those chose another path?

    "I don't have my own money it is but it is not "His" either it is "Our" money"

    And just see how fast 'our' money becomes 'his' money if the marriage ends. Being financially dependent means that you are truly living on the sufferance of someone else. Sugar coat it all one likes, the reality is that the paycheck is NOT issued to Mr. *and Mrs* employee. The dynamic of one person earning money gives rise to that person being the one who actually controls the financial decisions from a position of power. How many times have we read and discussed on this forum about the scenario in which a woman isn't being 'allowed' to spend, buy, decorate etc by her husband because he is the one who earns the money?

    "He said that when she had asked for them to go for counseling (years before) he said no as he didn't think they had any problems. Eventually they did end up in counseling, that's when the issues finally came to light. At that point it was too late. I'm not blaming the wife but she should have addressed the issues immediately. "

    Okay, let's blame the woman! Because how else can this be interpreted: she sees a problem, she asks partner to go get help, he refuses, problems get worse, marriage ends...and it's her fault!?!? Sheesh. What kind of choice exactly did this woman have? Should she have tried to force her partner to go get help? Exactly how would that have worked?

    In my own life I am not financially dependent on my husband. We worked together as partners to raise two young adult offspring who have turned out just fine. Frankly, I think our marriage is much stronger given that we BOTH are in it because we want to be. I don't need to stay with him because if he left I'd be destitute. I don't need his money to retire-I've got that covered. I don't need his approval to buy anything-I earn my own money. Do I want to be with him? Do I eagerly anticipate years of retirement together? Do I consult with him about spending our joint funds (an account to which we both contribute to run our household) money? Yes, yes and yes. But the self confidence and security I feel in knowing that I can take care of myself is truly priceless.

    And last in this entirely too long screed-do I think those of you who choose to stay home and give up your own financial independence are worse off than me? No, although *for me* that is a path that is too risky for my own taste. What I wish is for everyone to have the freedom to make informed choices, and to live a life of happiness in following those choices with positive outcomes. To me that is feminism in its entirety: the right to choose for yourself how to live your best life.

    Ann

  • hhireno
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well done Ann.

    Pesky,
    Maybe many of the mid-life males are mildly depressed? Isn't a lack of interest in life a symptom of depression? I think many adults, not just men certainly, suffer from a low level, insidious depression. Careers are often winding down, the kids don't need you as much any more, a spouse might be starting to grow in a new or different direction. It seems there are many people who are vaguely depressed but don't recognize it as depression. We get older and a little more tired, we worry about what the future will bring and how much future we have remaining. Those thoughts could easily led to a weariness and depression without being recognized as such.

    The problem is, you can't make someone else change or seek help, especially if they don't recognize a need. You can suggest and encourage and, maybe, lead by example but they have to want more for themselves.

  • lavender_lass
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ann- Like the 'she said snarkily' :)

    Very true about depending on 'our' money and having it become 'his' money. My mom found that out the hard way. Even with a community property state, all future earning potential is much better for the one, who has been working the last 20 years.

    Stay at home moms, working moms, as long as they're moms first and love their kids, who cares? And I feel just the same way about dads, too. Kids can't always have their everyday wants come first (and often shouldn't) but to know they're the reason you work or stay home can be the security they need. And whatever choice you make, write up some kind of legal agreement about finances...just in case.

  • golddust
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our family is filled with capable, working women. I was blessed to be able to stay home with all three kids until they were school-aged. Aimee's first day of Kindergarten was my first day of work. I worked for 16 years at a job I loved.

    The Adoption agency REQUIRED one person be a stay at home parent. That is when we both quit our jobs and started a business in our home. Best decision ever.

    Women do judge other women harshly. I remember women being nasty about the fact that Max was bottle fed verses breast fed. Hello! He was adopted and after researching breast feeding in this situation, I decided as long as I held him for every single feeding, he would be fine. AND he is perfectly imperfect in spite of being bottle fed.

    It was no one else's business what our families choices have been. My Grandaughter is working full time as the other available family members have stepped up to care for the son she is raising as a single parent.

    As a family, we work around everyone's schedules. He is very much loved and extremely social and confident. He has the best sense of humor ever, for a 21 month old.

    Haley says he wakes up in the mornings, making a verbal list of all of his special people. "Mommy, Grammy, Grandma, Grandmoo, Uncle Bean, Grandpa, Papa..." He often does that in the car too. He has a healthy Village surrounding him.

    There are so many ways to have a career and parent. Just because one family makes a different choice than another family, does not mean its wrong.

    And even when we try our best; do everything right, some things are still out of our control (addiction, etc). We need to learn how to support each other more. I'm sure I can make some self improvements in this area.

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