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mtnrdredux_gw

V. early stage q in re competitive college admissions

mtnrdredux_gw
9 years ago

I know many of you have recently completed college searches. Thankfully, that is still far off.

But...

We are looking at prep schools ... even that is 2 years away, but the middle school starts the process now.

To the uninitiated, it would seem pretty simple. Try to get into the best possible prep school where you think you'd be happy, subject to any logistical constraints or preferences.

However, to add another layer of complexity and push the process even further ahead, a lot of people believe you should strategize your choice of prep school to maximize desirability for college. For example, some people would posit that attending the most elite prep school and ranking in the top third of that class, is less "valuable" than, say, attending a less elite school and being in the top 5% of that class.

I understand some of the rationale, and the desire by universities to create balanced and diverse student bodies. I had a friend who moved from MS to NY and was really bummed because her son's chances of getting into his target school were better from MS since it had less high-powered students.

BUT, I also think they can do their own adjustments, and equate kids from different schools pretty efficiently.

I can't see gaming the system. I say go to the best place you can, and let the chips fall where they may. I know something really "out there", like a candidate who did all of their college prep on a yak farm in the Andes, might give one a leg up, but outside of that ...

Thoughts?

Comments (103)

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    AJ,
    Our public schools are excellent, but our area also has a lot of excellent private schools. This particular child (we have 3) asked to move from the private middle school we had them in, which is a very cool place but kind of hippie-ish and new age-y, to a very competitive. very patrician kind of school. We honored that because the kid is an outstanding student and the only real imposition was logistics.

    The graduating classes in the past go about 20% to NY/CT public high schools (quite strong), 40% to local private day schools and 40% to one of the top boarding schools.The acceptance rates at any given elite boarding school is so low, you really can't plan on going somewhere with friends. Any one of them is lucky to get in.

    " ... there is something to be said for someone who graduates at the top of the class from a public school or parochial/private school rather than the middle of the pack in an elite prep school."
    Yes, yes! Again, the point of my post was this very observation, which is totally true and not lost on admissions people at top ranked colleges. In fact, your point is so on target that some parents "avoid" the very very best schools in order to make their child a "better" candidate for the next level, ie college. I do not think my child will be valedictorian at an Andover or and Exeter. But maybe they could be at a school one tier down. So which is better?

    "But I believe that as long as the school has a decent ranking, and offers honors and AP courses, then let the child decide what school he/she wants to go to and what courses to take."

    I agree, and we are. But our child is still quite young, and their view is, literally "Mom, what is the best school there is? That's where I want to go." To me it's almost like asking a 6yo who tells you they want to be President, kwim? A lot of people on this post automatically assume a parent considering these options is some crazed Svengali subjecting their tender child to impossible standards. But, as your son's accomplishments show, this is the kind of drive that can only come from the kid themselves. The parent is almost in the position of throttling back ... or at least making sure the kid has thought through all of the implications.

    KSWL, Yes, I've heard that term. One wonders how you can pick the best school in K!

    Robo, I'm so jealous you went to McGill. I always thought it would be a cool place to go, just exotic enough, and of course so highly regarded. A lot of people do get a little disoriented when they are no longer at the top of their class, if they have always identified themselves that way. Some get a good dose of humility and some inspiration, some become insecure. Of course we aren't self aware back then, that's only what happens after we've grown up, no?
    Glad you found your niche, and at least you can help the young people in your life if they ever face the same challenge!

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ratherbe,

    LOL, a lot of people do have a bad impression of boarding school. Even those who don't understand it's remedial, still think either the kid or the parent don't want to live together. Selfishly, I hate the idea of my kid going away 4 years earlier than i was planning....

  • robo (z6a)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mtnredux - McGill was awesome and if your kids ever want to go somewhere exotic, but close to you, I'd highly recommend it. The standards are high (a lot of American kids dropped out at Christmas to go back home to easier (more "client oriented") schools) and the international contacts are great. Plus it's dirt cheap compared to ivies, cost of living in Montreal is still reasonable and the city is quite safe. That said, University of Toronto has overtaken McGill both in Canada and internationally in terms of reputation. But...Toronto.

    I think part of my issue was also cultural. Here we have old fashioned presbyterian humility and catholic guilt mixed together - end result people are encouraged to appear self-effacing (almost to the point of self-abnegation). Going to McGill, I was entranced with kids from different areas who weren't afraid to ask for what they wanted. I think that's part of why Nova Scotians have a reputation for disliking people who "come from away." They can't understand "brash, aggressive" outsiders (which to people elsewhere would be reasonably appear to be "confident, assertive").

    This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Oct 9, 14 at 12:39

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    DD is almost 11, in 5th grade (DS is youngest in class, she wasn't as precocious so we waited to start her, she's the oldest in class now, it's hard with winter birthdays). I wouldn't go with what she wants right now either, she's just not mature enough. DS always was "a little old man."

    It really depends on your child. If (s)he wants to go to the "elite" school b/c the atmosphere is more like the MS (s)he is in and enjoys, and you don't have anything against it (can afford it, etc.) then let him/her try it. It's not forever, (s)he can always transfer later. There must be some people transferring out as well as in, otherwise there wouldn't be room for the ones coming in the last year. Your obligation as parent is to make sure your child is getting a suitable (for them) education, one that prepares him/her for independent living. Obviously there's a wide range of abilities and disabilities to consider and success is defined by and for the individual.

    Being a valedictorian at a small school is no more a guarantee of success than being in the top (picking a number out of the air) 25% graduating from an elite school. Though it may ease college admissions, I'm going to make the assumption that if you can afford private/prep schools now, your child isn't going to qualify for financial aid. I don't think that valedictorians automatically receive merit-based aid.

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ajsmama, I'm going to stay out of the bulk of this conversation, but I will tell you I know a number of kids who have gone to A&M and I can't think of one who isn't loving it.

    Mtn, all I'm going to say is try to ignore all that pressure about picking the right school and the right program to get to the right school and the right program (rinse and repeat). If I had done that for my son, he wouldn't be where he is today. I have no doubt he would be successful, but I don't know if he would be happy because he wouldn't have found his passion. The "right" school back then didn't have what proved to be his passion even if they were considered the best. I believe he will find a way to do what he loves and he won't spend the rest of his life wondering "what if?" If your child has the aptitude, work ethic and passion for something, they will find their way (if you let them -- too many parents don't, in the name of "success") -- and it may not be where you think it will be when they are young.

    Following what you want for them or what you think you "should" do according to some outside pressure is a great way to do the "right" things for all the wrong reasons. In my working years, I saw way too many "successful" people who were unhappy, unfulfilled, a slave to a paycheck, divorced with affairs and substance abuse trying to fill the emptiness. I've known people living paycheck to paycheck on a quarter or half a million a year because that was the lifestyle (in the most expensive cities) that was expected of them in their "success".

    Twenty years from now, your daughters have to wake up each morning and want to get out of bed and face the day, then find rewards in what they do so they can do it all again day after day. To do that, they have to follow their heart - a heart that will grow and change, but will beat stronger and stronger as they find their passion.

    If your daughter has expressed an interest in BS, then talk to her about why and what she wants to gain form it. Don't take this is what I want at face value. Ask why. Listen to what she isn't saying too. Kids pick up on ideas from adults and other kids, things they hear, and they get notions about what they are "supposed to do" just like adults -- but it can be harder to recognize. I can't tell you what is right for your daughter. I can only tell you why I am so glad my son didn't go to that private school and how successful he has been thus far -- but that isn't your question.

    You know your daughter better than any one. Talk to her. In the end, you have to talk to her and find the right answer for you and her and make it for the right reasons. Trust the process. When it comes time for college admissions, what will help her find the right school will be what she can show them about finding herself and how she wants to continue to grow. If she knows that, it will show and they will find each other -- even if that college is no where near your radar screen now. And that's a good thing.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I had edited my post above for brevity, but upon reading your last post again, here's my story. Make what you will of it. Though I wouldn't force my child to go to a public school or private day school just so that (s)he had a better chance of placing higher in the class ranking.

    I was valedictorian of me small (semi-private, our town didn't have a HS so paid tuition to this school or trade school, whichever the family picked) school. I was actively recruited by a top school in DC, but lost my scholarship after freshman year when I found I actually had to *study* not just do the HW, to do well on tests. It was my first time away from home and I was also very much the "fish out of water" in the big city, was so stressed I kept losing things (calculator, keys, etc.), started having test anxiety, lost weight, etc. So maybe a BS would help prepare your child for that, if (s)he's never been to summer camp or anything.

    I went on to work my way through college, took 5 years (major in Electrical Engineering, minor in Spanish) but I did it, paid off my loans within a couple of years, got married and put DH through college (he had 1 year at a community college in TX, then joined the Army and went to small state school here in CT on the GI Bill). Uncle Sam paid for my Master's from top engineering school in NY - and less than 10 years later I quit to raise my kids, being so stressed out from the rat race). DH never went for his Master's, and worked for the Navy as a co-op like I did, then got a job in private industry, back to the Navy, back to private industry but got a professional certificate at my urging, has kept up with his training and now earns a good living despite growing up in rural TX and not attending the best schools, or even distinguishing himself at the public schools he attended.

    My dad went to trade school, became a mechanic, owned a gas station in the 70's, never declared bankruptcy, we had to move, he bought a tractor-trailer and started driving cross-country. Later he sold that, bought a dump truck, and still works as an onwer-operator hired out to various construction companies (mostly road construction, some builders). I guess he's successful - his younger brother who started a construction company seems to be, he's retired now, goes on hunting trips to AK and Africa, and has handed off the business to his oldest son. My mom went to community college, then a private college, she graduated the same time my brother and I did, she went on to get her Master's and is now considered tops in her field, she loves it so much she's not ready to retire yet and she's in her early 70's.

    Sorry for the full family history, but really I don't think success is defined so much by your education (within limits, I'm talking first-world here) but by what you do with it. I may be a disappointment to my parents, maybe I didn't live up to my potential, but I'm a lot happier as a farmer than I was as an engineer. I don't know if it was the engineering or the military - DH isn't happy in his job either, though, I guess the rat race is the same everywhere.

    IMHO, making sure that your child receives an appropriate education within the constraints and considerations (money, time away from home, stress of being too competitive?) that you as an adult have to put on them is all you can do at this point. Trying to pick the "best" HS, planning for admission to the "right" college(s) to get a "good" job and have a "successful" career is premature. And you know what Burns said about "best-laid plans"...

    Do what works for your family NOW, you can always adjust the plan as college gets closer and your child matures. We still kid DS that when he was little he wanted to be a "Rescue Hero", he could try for the Coast Guard Academy LOL.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    While I was pasting and editing that whole long post, lascatx said it so much better and more succinctly!

    lascatx - thanks, DH is rooting for A&M (TAMU?), even tried to move the family to Amarillo last year but I said I wouldn't go, DS wanted to finish HS here too, though he'd like to go somewhere warmer for college. He could have gotten in-state tuition if we did move, but it wasn't worth leaving his friends (not that he's popular, the opposite, despite his love of country music he thought he'd be more out-of-place there as a geeky Yankee than he is here as a geeky farm kid). And I wasn't about to put the (unfinished) house on the family farm with street address in 1 town and house (schools) in another on the market and move 2 weeks before school started either!

    We'll probably be going through *that* discussion again next year...

    This post was edited by ajsmama on Thu, Oct 9, 14 at 13:22

  • lascatx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it would be awfully hard to move by choice for your senior year unless you knew someone or something to help you transition.

    There might be another option still open to him. Our youngest was offered a 4 year waiver of out of state tuition at one of the colleges he was seriously considering. It wasn't something he applied for (but you might want to ask in case it varies) -- just came with his acceptance! I don't know if TAMU does that, but it seems that many state schools have that option, including at least one other Texas state university, so that might be an option. It's a form of financial aid that isn't necessarily considered a scholarship or a grant. Paying in state tuition could be a great help. Hope that's a possibility for him.

    By the way, my dad went to a community college and was intentionally vague about it. I don't know if he got a degree before he went into the service, but he didn't have a 4 yr degree for sure and no impressive names. He climbed his way up the corporate ladder until my mom wouldn't move with the promotions and the company said move or.... He quit and started his own business. Both my parent's passed in the last year. In a lot of ways, they were ordinary people doing ordinary things, but they left such a legacy. They meant so much to so many people and their gifts will go one giving. In so many ways, it really mattered that they lived. They made people happier. They loved their family. They helped friends and strangers. They pitched in with their community. They made sure we had what we needed, gave to those who didn't and managed to keep money in the bank. They led us by example and gave us opportunities. They set my standards for success.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh no, I didn't mean that we'd move next year - DS was adamant about finishing here. But I left the door open to discuss moving before DD starts HS - though I'm not keen on it. We've got an unusual property that's going to take a while to sell (even after we finish the master bath and the rest of the woodwork - not to mention my dad will probably disinherit me if I do sell it out of the family).

    But may I email you to discuss TX colleges later? I'm sure I'm going to be posting here next year looking for help navigating the admissions process (He's taking the PSAT next week).

  • jojoco
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Boarding school is more than just a regional preference. In some areas, it just seems quite impossible for people to comprehend why you're doing it. I had a woman tell me that she would never send her children to boarding school, because she is "a hands-on mom." How insulting. I'm also a hands-on mom, But I trust there are great members of a boarding school community to stand in for me when I'm not there.

    The whole idea of tiers at boarding school can be misleading. If your child gets b's at Exeter versus an a at Kent, no college admission is going to think the Kent student is a better student. Exeter has an amazing reputation for college preparedness. An average Exeter student will still be thought of as a very good student.same with the other first tier boarding schools. They've got a hard earned reputation for a reason.

    Don't misunderstand, I think Kent is a great school. It's all about finding your niche. My daughter went to a very traditional, formal dinner boarding school. She adored it. My son on the other hand went to a more hippie style boarding school. And he adored his. But good luck convincing a widespread audience that boarding school is the right choice. It just will never be an acceptable choice too many.

    I would take a boarding school education over a day school any day of the week. Boarding schools have tremendous diversity based on the fact that students live there.. On my daughters floor, they were probably 13 nations represented. I'm not exaggerating. She came from a very homogenous small town and came back to what I call "color blind". And not everybody is wealthy that goes to boarding school. Some schools, like Exeter, I believe, are need blind. Kids are admitted on the basis of the strength of their application. If you can get in, they'll find a way to make it work for you financially.

    I wish I had gone to boarding school. Instead, I went to one of the typical, overachieving high schools in Connecticut. It worked for me, but still…
    Jo

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jojoco,

    You are right about mainstream perceptions. That's unwinnable.

    It's either Exeter or Andover that is needs blind, but all of the top 6-10 have really hefty percentages of FA. Because they can, right? Parent who can pay will pay a lot, and the return on their endowments already cover a lot of the costs. So it's smart in the long run to be needs-blind and keep culling the best kids there are; perpetuating the value of the school.

    I think the Exeter/Kent argument goes more like this. Elite U can only take so many Exeter kids, period. So they will take the best Exeter kids. If you are an average Exeter kid, no dice. So don't go anyplace where you think you would be "average".

    As I have said, that logic is just too cute for me. But many people subscribe to it!

  • alisande
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This thread is dizzying! :-)

    School choice and education in general is such an individual decision, and there are many variables.

    My husband went to Andover (Phillips Academy), and said he would never send a child of his to boarding school. Yes, he was a good student and went on to Yale, but being away from home during the high school years was hard on him. I readily agreed to keep our kids close to home because I spent 5th and 6th grades in boarding school after my mom died. It was a good school, and I have a few happy memories, but it's not something I ever wanted for my children.

    Our area has one prep school, highly regarded by many around here. But when my kids were that age, the school didn't teach art or music because it was so focused on academics/college acceptance. I don't know if that has changed or not. Probably not.

  • kswl2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I went to boarding school in Europe and saw my parents only once a year, when I went home for Christmas. Lots of the international student body went on school led skiing trips instead---- they didn't see their families for nine months at a time. And do you know, we didn't think a thing about it. I didn't think my parents loved me less than the kids who lived at home and went to school, and I don't think they did, it was just a different kind of parenting, that's all. Parenting has become a much more intense part of family life than it used to be. It's not necessarily bad----or necessarily good, either. At least nobody could accuse them of helicoptering :-)

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    alisande, was that a long time ago ? I simply can't imagine any good quality private school (let alone elite bs) being so narrow. My kids' middle schools, like all of the similar private schools in the area, require three things of all middle schoolers. One, you must play an instrument in a band or orchestra. Two, you must play a team sport each season. Three, you must do community service on a regular basis. It's also very common to have some quasi-religious meeting/service once a week to address ethics.

    The dirty little secret is these schools bundle together the things most of us want our kids to do or at least try ... But save parents a lot of the hassles.

    KSWL, I cant imagine the parental sacrifice of that, but I bet one of mine would love that idea. I get teary just thinking of them boarding away in-state!

  • alisande
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It was 25 years ago. I like your schools' requirements.

  • jmc01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Given that the majority of the top 25 colleges are not in the NE, I wouldn't fret over junior high, as long as it was a decent school.

    Many of the new hires at Apple graduated from San Jose State. Who'da thunk!

  • amysrq
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My daughter spent four years, as a day student, at one of the top boarding schools. Demographically, she was a dime a dozen when it came to college applications. White, upper-middle-class, theater, newspaper, overseas internships, blah blah blah. She did not get into her top choice Ivy (or her father's Ivy alma mater) but she did get an education that will probably be more meaningful than anything she's getting at her Little Ivy university. The relationships with the teachers were nothing short of extraordinary and will inform her for a lifetime. Her high school mentor has continued to be her champion and supporter, even three years after graduation. The intensity of the academic rigor has allowed her to easily sail through a three-year graduation track in college. Prep school was not a means to an end....it was the prize itself.

    One of my clients recently told me that she thought the really good future connections were made at boarding school, not the Ivy she attended. Not sure how that will play out for my kid since being a day student puts you in another class. Supposedly, as they get older and return for reunions and cross paths in NY, some of the social boundaries become a bit more permeable. Time will tell.

    Sometimes I wonder how things might have been different in the applications game had we not moved north, stayed in FL and either sent her as a boarder or kept her in the gifted magnet public school where she started in middle. But even in that nationally-top-ranked public school, she never had to work that hard. My guess is she would have continued to coast. Not coasting, and everything I mentioned above, was more than worth four years of prep school tuition. Three years of private liberal arts college tuition...not as sure about that ROI, actually.

  • arcy_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There was a thread here awhile back about boarding schools...many seemed to think kids having the influence of other "learned" adults was a huge asset to their development. Frankly I can't think of anything positive--in the areas that really matter to me and mine. I had children to raise, enjoy, share,be with them. I am very happy with the way my three turned out. I still say 99% of us are average joes living our life. All the worry and pressure for "the right" schools is lost on me. Raise people with values and good work ethics and the rest will fall into place.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amy,

    This is the post that won't die, but yet, I agree very much with this statement: "Prep school was not a means to an end....it was the prize itself." In other words, make the best of each stage and stop trying to figure things out 10 steps ahead.

    Arcy,
    Good values? Good work ethics? I can't imagine anyone would disagree. Rigorous schooling doesn't preclude these, in fact it is the non plus ultra in work ethics. And while I think values come primarily from parents, all schools (even public ones) have become more focussed on character-building too, which can only help. You are totally right though, as a a parent, you give up something in having less time with your child. It's a real sacrifice in my mind.

  • neetsiepie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Please help me to understand why the drive for a top school? I don't mean to be dense, I just don't 'get' it. What is the purpose? What fields do people who go to the elite schools go in to? Obviously it's a white collar profession, but is it politics? Working in a top tier law firm or banking?

    Honestly, it's completely out of my realm of understanding. I guess it's because I always wanted to be a big fish in a tiny pond, I wanted to be able to make a difference on a micro level. My kids all went to State schools and are in fields they love, also where they are on the micro level (Head Start school teacher; victims assistance social worker; chef; small town pharmacist; and small boutique business owner). I come from a long line of artists and artisans-West Coast, laid back folk. My peers are all environmentalists. I have a back of my mind idea of running for local office after I retire-but honestly, can't imagine desiring anything greater; being a cog in a machine at a global firm. I too went to State schools-nothing to write home about, but it got me into the field I love. It's afforded me and my family to be comfortable, certainly not wealthy-but I can't complain.

    So please, don't think I'm being classist-I'm truly trying to understand this subject of competitive advantage for college. Is it for prestige? Income? What? Thanks!

  • runninginplace
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "All the worry and pressure for "the right" schools is lost on me. Raise people with values and good work ethics and the rest will fall into place."

    and

    "So please, don't think I'm being classist-I'm truly trying to understand this subject of competitive advantage for college. Is it for prestige? Income? What? Thanks!"

    Not trying to be incendiary but mtnrdredux is discussing an environment that is quite particular: the extremely affluent world of the northeastern highly educated masters of the universe offspring planning brigade :). There are outposts in other areas like Silicon Valley but the nexus is exactly where mtn has the (mis?)fortune to be raising her family.

    And yes, it is baffling to the other 99.999%, and in truth other than investment banking and a few other extremely specific career niches (and even for them) one can certainly find great success even without being able to name drop an Ivy or a boarding school background. Granted, the networking upside of hanging out in those arenas is certainly real and valuable but despite what frantic helicopter parents may think, it's not a zero sum game even though it can seem that way when you are immersed in that parenting world.

    I suspect for the vast majority of the parents mtn knows, cost is an irrelevant issue so intense tutoring, tuition that costs the equivalent of a year's 'normal' salary-for kindergarten-and so on is just part of the routine and expected costs of raising a child. Kudos to you mtn for being someone who clearly doesn't just drink the privilege kool aid, who is asking serious questions and evaluating what is right for your child, not just what everybody in the PTA is chattering about.

    But for most of us no, it's not something familiar or relatable. It's a peculiar little socioeconomic subset with all its own nuances.

    Full disclosure: I don't live in the northeast but both my kids were lifers in a private prep school that's a feeder to both the NE boarding academies and the Ivies. They got a top notch education, however as life has moved forward it is interesting to observe that all the glittery promise of their top classmates hasn't necessarily resulted in amazing outcomes. The HYP (Harvard/Yale/Princeton) cohort are sometimes pursuing careers in investment banking...and sometimes back at home trying to find a job or working for dad as gofers. I will say few have absolutely bottomed out since the parents' resources will always preclude that. But in the end it's not where you go it's who you are and what you can do that makes the difference in how your life turns out.

    As for our family, my two both went on to get their college degrees, though not from bumper sticker schools, are employed in career track jobs that they love and are happy and productive young members of society. Their privileged education left them with a very good intellectual framework and maybe more importantly an excellent ability to cut through the BS that comes with wealth and privilege; my kids know quite well that lots of money doesn't make anyone a better person...or a jerk. That may turn out to be the best hidden secret of hanging out with rich kids actually and a pretty good life lesson in the end.

    Ann

  • kswl2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Is it for prestige? Income?"

    To be honest, it is all of that, and more--- satisfaction at a goal achieved, pursuit of a top education at one of the best regarded schools, etc. We told our kids to select a college for the program, not the name, but kids don't always stay in the major they start out with, and a top tier school has a variety of majors and programs with professors who are leaders in their fields. If they change majors they're still getting the best education available.

    Neither of my 2 BS kids applied to DH's Ivy because they did not want to be that far north. They both chose a school based on the program in which they were interested, one computer science and engineering and the other an audition program. As other parents have attested, their boarding experience helped them to be better college students than they would have been without it, so there is also a ROI outside just the college admissions per se.

    And another point--- every kid has a top choice school, whether it is a state university, a local community college, or an Ivy. Why is it great and exciting for a kid to set his sights on the best state uni, work hard to get in and be accepted, but not okay for a kid to have a top school as his or her goal, work hard and be accepted? The latter is often looked down upon as a shallow, too expensive goal by people who applaud the former. Let's be honest--- that's classism too. Not saying that's anyone's objection here, but the protestations So and so went to X college and that was fine for him, why isn't it for others? is either classist or extremely naive.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Pesky, Running, KSWL,

    "Please help me to understand why the drive for a top school? I don't mean to be dense, I just don't 'get' it. What is the purpose?

    Hmm, and I guess I feel dense too, because to me the value of a "top school" is absolutely obvious. If I said, for example, that I was moving from inner city Baltimore to the DC burbs for the school district, I cannot imagine post after post after post asking me why this was necessary etc etc. So it is all a question of "degree", right? ( lol pun intended)
    We can easily agree that DC suburban schools are probably better for our kids than inner city Baltimore. By the same token, Sidwell Friends is probably better than some of the suburban schools, and St Pauls boarding school is "better" than that. To say there is no such hierarchy is to say that you would be totally indifferent between going to community college and Oxford; that is silly, no?

    And by saying Oxford does not equal community college, I am not saying no one in the world ever had a happy, productive life without going to Oxford. I certainly have - DH and I both went to good but not great public schools and to state universities. Within our families, prep school and boarding school are total unknowns. We had always intended that our children would attend public schools, which we feel strongly about supporting (and do support as both volunteers and donors, even though we no longer have children in public school ourselves).

    I think all parents try to give their kid the best education possible, guided by what the child wants, what their advisors say they are capable of, and the time and resources the family is willing or able to devote to it.

    "What fields do people who go to the elite schools go in to? Obviously it's a white collar profession, but is it politics? Working in a top tier law firm or banking?"

    OMG, everything. If you look at the top boarding schools' websites, you would be amazed at the diversity of their alum (in every sense). Athletes, actors, artists, authors, engineers, entrepreneurs, scientists, academicians, philanthropists, and yes ... politicians, bankers, lawyers, business people.

    The downsides are: the risk that it is too much pressure for your kid, the time you as a family give up with them, the cost, and the risk that the student body are snobs and turn your kid into an arrogant, entitled jerk.

    The upside - the schools are amazing places. They have incredible facilities; theatres, sports arenas, libraries, campuses. They have incredible staff, many with PhDs. They offer a range of very interesting courses. They offer international study/travel/volunteer work. They are filled with very bright students from around the globe. One thing a speaker at our school said, that i had not considered, is the "academic immersion". She pointed out that a day student goes home with a few hours of homework, where everyone else in the family is living a life too. When they are in a boarding school, everyone is in the same boat. After dinner, the entire campus is quiet and everyone is studying together. It makes the workload a little less onerous when it is part of a way of life at the school. You also develop friendships and faculty relationships that are often quite deep. Cynically, they are "connections". But first and foremost, they are friends.

    As far as a stepping stone, yes. Personally, I think getting into an Ivy League school is a silly goal to fixate on. We have no legacy, we are not endowing a chair, we are not any minority that deserves a leg up. They only accepted about 8% of their candidates last year IIRC, and given how much trouble it is to apply, I assume many, many of the "rejects" were worthy. IMHO it is beyond one's control and hence an irrational goal. Nonetheless, yes, an elite prep school increases your chances. Trinity School in NYC sent 40% of its students to Ivy/Stamford/MIT. One data point noted that 7% of high schoolers graduate from private school, but that 47% of Ivy kids came from private schools.

    Again, the data that is broadly available focusses on the Ivys. I find those schools downright scary, myself. But if a school is successful at getting a large % of kids into the most selective places, they also get a lot of kids into wonderful schools that are not Ivy but still very competitive and great places for an education.

  • joaniepoanie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn......I think you hit the nail on the head with...

    "I think all parents try to give their kid the best education possible, guided by what the child wants, what their advisors say they are capable of, and the time and resources the family is willing or able to devote to it."

    I think the most important part of that sentence is " guided by what the child wants."

    If your child WANTS to go away to boarding school, let him/her go. Best case scenario, they love it, have the time of their life, and hopefully get into the college of their choice. Worst case scenario, they don't like the school or miss being home and transfer back to a local school (and still hopefully get into the college of their choice).

    Let your child lead the way (with of course some guidance and input from you) and he/she will end up where they are supposed/meant to be for both HS and college.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oops, sorry, that was really a Pesky reply!

    Running,
    Your descriptions are so funny and apt! I also thought this was an excellent point:
    "... an excellent ability to cut through the BS that comes with wealth and privilege; my kids know quite well that lots of money doesn't make anyone a better person...or a jerk."
    Popular culture always likes to make two groups jerks: bosses and wealthy people. One of the things I found so amazing when I grew up was that bosses are actually usually nice to you!

    KSWL,
    "We told our kids to select a college for the program, not the name, but kids don't always stay in the major they start out with, and a top tier school has a variety of majors and programs with professors who are leaders in their fields. If they change majors they're still getting the best education available."

    Some of my neighbors have kids who just started colleges, and one thing I thought was interesting was that some of the best schools have almost no flexibility in kids changing majors! One young man turned down an ivy for that reason, and chose an honors pgm at a state school, because he had some time to figure out what he wanted to focus on. I think that was a very smart decision. When I used to do a lot of hiring I would come across grads who would say "I have always wanted to be in investment banking", which made me think "really, not ever a rock star or ballerina or fireman or nurse? how boring and more than a little suspicious."

  • tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The different perspectives on the issue are definitely fascinating. I am homeschooling my 2 oldest children, which at the time was the right decision for us based on the resources available to us. I read quite a few books on educating children and how it does around the world, etc. and I cannot tell you how many times I have read about some schools and thought how I wish it is possible for them to attend a place like that. I would want that experience for them, for their enrichment. If the money was there to do it I absolutely would and I think many of us if we had the opportunities would pursue it for our children, even if afterwards that child decided to be a stay-at-home mom or stay-at-home dad, whatever. The only thing I would find questionable is the concept of trying to game the system but then again, I think that is part of life, trying to maximize whatever is available to you, we do it with sales, credit card reward points, etc., so doing it with schooling is perhaps not so far fetched.

  • neetsiepie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for your insights! We do all want what is best for our children. Only my eldest seemed driven for a particular school, which by the time she was college age, ended up choosing a rival school. Also, she decided to take some time off between HS & college to enter the work force. That turned out to be best for her as she realized then where her real passion lie, as opposed to that of what her academic path had laid out.

    I agree, Id be suspect of a young kid who told me he`d always wanted to be an investment banker, but there IS always that chance!

  • Joe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A relevant and interesting article in The New Yorker on this topic, from '05, written by Malcolm Gladwell.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Getting In

    This post was edited by billygoatjoe on Fri, Oct 10, 14 at 12:33

  • robo (z6a)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It depends on the kid. I loved my family but I think I would have loved boarding school as well, for I was an independent kid and totally loved academics (which happened to be very scarce in my education). My sister would never, ever have made that choice. I met a lot of boarding school grads at McGill and they seemed totally fine -- well adjusted and better prepared for living independently than the rest of us. I think particularly in the teenage years there is something to be said for a little distance from the family as children are striving to establish independence and identity.

  • kswl2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Most schools including Ivys, still don't require a major declaration until sophomore year. That is, unless the student has already been accepted by a particular "school of" at the same time they are accepted by the university. It's harder to get into some majors than others---you almost have to apply all over again, with recommendations and in some instances, essays. But I would say even the top state universities are the same in that respect. Most schools of business are far more selective with transfers, even major transfers within the same school, than they are with incoming freshmen. DS2 had a friend transfer schools because he could not get into the business school as an undergrad as a second semester sophomore. That happens everywhere, unfortunately.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    These moms were saying that, for the Ivys their kids looked at, they were accepted into a certain school going in, and changing was very very difficult

  • maire_cate
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Some Ivys make it quite difficult - DD changed her major and her Advisor was instrumental in easing the way. But it doesn't always work that way, I think a lot depends on how 'crowded' the major might be.

    DS would have been royally messed up - he was accepted into the School of Education and switched to Business before he even began his freshman year..........and then switched back to education after 2 semesters.... And all of this is after he had already taken a year off after high school because he wasn't sure what he wanted to do. He was considering the CIA (Culinary Institute of America). After graduating college he postponed teaching to work in a restaurant again and then ended up going to Law School. He attended a large state university for his undergraduate and switching majors was relatively easy - as long as your GPA met the requirements.

    I think this one took - he's been practicing for 4 years and hasn't mentioned switching careers lately.

    This post was edited by maire_cate on Fri, Oct 10, 14 at 18:42

  • hilltop_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've written and deleted this multiple times because I'm not sure how it will come across, but here's our experience.

    We have 3 adult children ages 24-32. One has an MBA from Harvard Business School, another a law degree from a top tier school in Chicago and another a degree from our local University. The MBA started his own medical data software start-up company, and just this week there was a public announcement that it was acquired by a nationally recognized company. The lawyer works for a top ranked law firm in NYC on billion dollar deals. The youngest is currently buying into our farm. All three are happy and successful.
    All three went to our local school in our small Nebraska town (population 500) with around 20 kids in their class. They were not valedictorian or salutatorian. They had average to above average ACT scores, but nothing spectacular. But they studied hard and were focused and were well rounded. They all chose their select path by talking to the guidance counselors and teachers at school. We pretty much stayed out of it. Since we're farmers, when they were kids they had to feed pigs, walk beanfields and other not-so-pleasant chores and they all knew they didn't want to do that for a living and they created the career they wanted. So they were motivated. But they learned to work hard and they knew about money because we'd discuss budgeting and profit & loss. We also have business interests outside farming and we'd discuss them around the dinner table so they broadened their scope of knowledge.
    We did not have cable TV. We did have a computer but would not buy computer games. We told them if they wanted a game they could create it......and so at the age of around 10 or 12 the oldest asked for a book on how to write C++ and he learned to write program and created a game. The lawyer always loved to read and the farmer loved to be physically active outdoors. We fed into their passions. Our vacations were usually to farm commodity meetings and they learned to network with the other kids there. We hosted an exchanged student and they attended different camps so they understood diversity. We played strategy games at home. So basically they learned from a multitude of methods on how to plan, set goals and make them happen.

    When it came time for them to write essays for college entrance applications, they had a multitude of experiences to draw upon and relate.
    We're about as far removed from boarding and prep school as can be, so I couldn't imagine sending my child to one; although two of their spouses grew up in that environment and they were extremely well rounded and bright individuals. When they started undergrad colleges 600 miles away it forced them to grow up, mature, make connections, learn from their mistakes, etc.

    Did the Harvard MBA have an edge because he was from a farm in a small town in Nebraska? Maybe, but he brought a lot more to the table. By that time he'd graduated w/ honors from a reputable college program (not ivy league), worked for MIcrosoft both in the US and abroad and shown leadership skills and entrepreneurial spirit.

    I guess what I'm saying is, discuss the options with your child, and guide them but let them take the lead and make the decisions because it affects their future. If they don't do it, then they're not ready.

    I will also say that the two with the high degrees work hard and long hours. The NY attorney once said she saw more sunrises leaving work than sunsets. Her husband was also an attorney working on long hours and it cost them their marriage. Neither has children as that's a "maybe later in life" event for them.

    And regarding our youngest, the farmer, he had strong academics, but a teacher once said he'd probably get more enjoyment out of life because he had more balance. There's such a variation among kids, that you just do your best and are happy when they become productive, self-sustaining adults.

    We never ever suggested the schools they chose and we never even suggested the careers they chose. Heavens we couldn't even relate to the paths they've chosen. They're self-motivating. We did highly encourage them to get to know their teachers and professors. And in all three cases the fraternities & sororities were beneficial to their social development and future networking. And we were probably anti-fraternity/sorority going into it. We encouraged all of them to follow their dreams and interests and we'd help them as we could. That's what seemed to work for us.

  • chispa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I attended boarding school in the UK. Kids have it easy at BS today with the technology available to stay in touch.

    I flew overseas, to where my my parents were working/living, three times per year, Christmas, Easter and Summer. I wrote letters to stay in touch and was allowed one phone call home per month. How different it is today and how easy to keep in touch, with cheaper long distance phone calls, cell phones, texts and emails.

    I also think this means that parents today are just as involved in making decisions for their kids, regardless of the fact that the kids are far away at BS. This wasn't the case when I went to BS, it took weeks for a coversation to take place over letters and sometimes there was no time and I just had to make a decision on my own. Technology today allows parents to micromanage their kids at BS, just as if they were sitting across the room at home.

  • kswl2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Chispa, did you see the article in the New York Times about parents buying or renting homes in the towns where their kids are attending boarding school? See the link below, it's very interesting.

    At my BS there were many international students, some of whom were sent to boarding school at age seven. My step-nephew in Scotland went away to school at age 11 as the next step in his schooling, and by that time all his friends were gone already. Otoh, when my children told their friends they were leaving for BS they were almost always asked what they did to be sent away!

    Here is a link that might be useful: NYT article about parents following their kids to boarding schools

  • ellendi
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't help but feel a bit sad when I read this post. I just can't imagine sending my daughters away for the middle/high school years. College came fast enough!

  • Sueb20
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ellen, I was just thinking the same thing as I am still stinging a bit from sending DS off to college almost two months ago! My 13 yo DD spends a LOT of time away from home between school and a demanding athletic schedule, but I couldn't imagine her living away at school at this age. And I mean NO judgment by this...just thinking in terms of my own family, I can't imagine it. Now, if I could have sent my oldest, most difficult child to BS for the middle and high school years? Yes. I would have sent him. LOL.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ellendi,
    I am less familiar with middle school BS, but even for HS, I am totally with you. It is a huge sacrifice for parents. Thank goodness two of the top choices are only about an hour away, none are more than 2.5-3hrs drive.

    KSWL, Age 7, ouch. My biggest issue with that is, while our preteen is fairly capable of guiding this process, I kind of wonder if a 7yr old was dying to go to a particular BS.

    As far as the NYTimes, article, i thought it was bizarre. This is a trend? This is newsworthy? I don't think so. I am more on the page with this person from Phillymag, who reacted to the article as follow:

    "Let me repeat: These rich people send their kids away to boarding schools and then buy or rent houses near those schools so they can stay close to their kids. This shows precisely how rich people are different from you and me: They’re batshit insane."

    I do understand that some families with the flexibility are choosing to live near the school they and their children have chosen, but they why board if your parents are in town? I do get the incremental social benefits of boarding, but still, seems quite bizarre to me!

    Chispa, I can imagine that experience really fosters maturity and character, but to those of us not used to it, is sounds almost Dickensian! You are right about technology "tether". There are even 5-day boarding schools, too, which is an idea we as parents would love if it were also the right school.

    Hilltop, Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope you know I didn't mean to in any way take away from students outside of the core applicant pool, and moreover the graduate school process at competitive schools is very different than undergrad anyway. How wonderful you have three happy successful kids, including one to carry on the tradition and stay close by!

    Maire, The sense I got was yes, some majors were harder to switch in to. Still a shame, forcing kids to decide so young!

    PS When I saw KSWL link a NYT article, I thought it was this newer one (linked). I will excerpt what I think is a great line from it:

    "Don’t just parent for the future, parent for this evening. Your child probably won’t get into the Ivy League or win a sports scholarship. At age 24, he might be back in his childhood bedroom, in debt, after a mediocre college career. Raise him so that, if that happens, it will still have been worth it. A Dutch father of three told me about his Buddhist-inspired approach: total commitment to the process, total equanimity about the outcome."

    Here is a link that might be useful: Modern Global Parenting

  • kswl2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I kind of wonder if a 7yr old was dying to go to a particular BS."

    Of course not. The parents were in the foreign service of one European country or another and this was how the children were educated. They usually saw their parents once a year in the summers, and spent holidays with grandparent or aunts and uncles. I was born in the 1950s and it was common for our English cousins to go off to boarding school very early. A South African friend of mine was sent to boarding school hundreds of miles from her family's ranch and farm when she was just five years old. It was the only way she would have got a real education.

    One thing about that NYT article I found interesting, mtn, is that none of the parents moving to be close to their child's school had attended BS themselves, so clearly they had no experience or frame of reference for the process. Our son's school had a number of five day boarders from within an hour's drive, but there were also seven day boarders whose parents lived in town. That is not at all uncommon, as far as I know. It also doesn't seem inexplicable to me.

    On a related note, I never could understand why our friends would leave their babies and children in the care of full time nannies who had poor English language skills, and/or had not taken any early childhood education classes or read books on the subject, etc. It seems many nannies' only qualification was having raised their own children. That seemed like madness to me. I was a SAHM who employed an "assistant mom," as we called her, because our kids were spread far apart in age and interests and attended different schools, so we needed another adult to help during the week. Since they spent those formative years with me I had no problem letting them go away at what some might consider an early age.

  • alisande
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hilltop, I loved your post. The atmosphere in which your children were raised sounds very much like the family life we had here. When my son wanted to play computer games, he wrote to a company that developed them, offering to review them from a 10-year-old's perspective. He got to play lots of games that way. ;-)

    My late DH, with his Yale Ph.D., held a fairly high-level executive position with a major corporation when I met him, and went on to work independently as a management consultant before owning his own chemical company. But he was happiest at the last job of his career: running a small food manufacturing company out of our barn. It gave him time to spend with the kids, grow a garden, and care for his horses.

  • MagdalenaLee
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wonder if BS is not only a regional thing but also a tradition for families in certain industries? My sister's in-laws live in the north east and are wealthy from the construction industry. No one in the family went to a BS. They did go to private schools. There are a couple of kids going to IL colleges but otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a lot of priority given to education.

    Regarding nannies: My sister was a nanny in NJ for over 10 years and knew many SAHM families who employed full-time nannies so mom could go play tennis, shop, dine and vacation without children. Even on family vacations, the nanny would go to care for the children daily while the parents frolicked. Now my sister can well afford a nanny for her son but refuses even a part-time nanny because the whole thing left such a bad taste in her mouth.

  • 2ajsmama
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My sister has a nanny to watch her 2 yr old so she can run her 9 yr old to school, violin, dance, etc. The 2 yr old is learning 3 languages - English, Japanese, and Spanish and is starting to form sentences (at least in English). The 9 yr old had started taking French lessons (dropped it), isn't fluent in Japanese (b/c my sister didn't want to speak it to her when she was a baby, thinking it would delay her English) and didn't have a nanny (or not for long stretches of time). It looks like they're moving to Japan next summer so she'll be forced to speak it.

    alisande - I don't spend much time with DS (DH does the running around for Scouts and sports) but I can't imagine how life would have been/be if I weren't home for DD these past 10 years. She's always been a much needier child (why I quit my job/career) and we're very close - though I don't know how close we'll be once she's a teen.

  • fourkids4us
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Alisande, don't fret the teen years with your dd. I may be jinxing myself, but I was preparing myself for hell with my dd as she hit puberty. We are both stubborn and emotional and I was a roaring @itch to my mom as a teen. I figured the old, "what comes around, goes around" would come back to bite me. She is now 15 y/o and we are still very close. We fight occasionally, but nothing like my mother and I did. I've been pleasantly surprised at our relationship. My 13 y/o ds is the one giving me a run for my money - moody, sullen, doesn't open up at all, etc. Though we have a good relationship, he has been harder to parent from a mental standpoint than my dd, which caught me off guard (he was always the sweet, quiet boy as a kid).

  • legomom23
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am very late to this thread but have really enjoyed reading all the replies. Education is such a personal thing and when it's partnered with parenting, well we can see how many opinions on that we get!
    I was a very unhappy middle schooler and begged my parents to send me away. It wasn't an option - neither of my parents went to college and certainly didn't consider boarding school.
    Everyone in DH's family -but him- went to boarding school. He flatly refused.
    Now? I have a gifted son, a terrible local school system and zero local options that would be better academically. We've discussed it. DS12 is so far not interested at all, and with him being our only child I doubt we as parents could do it. But when I hear about the programs and read about the schools, I really think he would thrive and love it. What a tremendous opportunity it can be.
    Right or wrong, for us it would be exposure and potential, being challenged to better yourself. Being exposed to something that you might not have otherwise and that being your passion. Learning your true capabilities in an environment that pushes you to reach them. I know I can do a lot to make that happen, but the "perfect" schooling situation could help. Or maybe I'm just glorifying it :)
    I am pretty sure if he were driven to go and it was a good fit, I would sacrifice and let him go. And then probably be one of those parents who rent nearby :)
    Thank you all for sharing your stories and insights.

  • kaboehm (zone 9a, TX USA)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am just ducking in from another forum, but I have taken several FREE on-line courses through Coursera.org. They are currently offering several classes on:
    Learning how to learn: powerful mental tools to help you master tough subjects

    Preparing for the AP calculus AB and BC exams

    Preparing for the AP statistics exam

    How to succeed in college

    ...and several other courses that could benefit students. Successful completion of the materials results in statement of accomplishment (printed certificate).

    Again, these are free courses and they are offered by high-level colleges throughout the US (and international universities as well).

    I have no relationship with Coursera, other than being a student. Check them out for your children and your own interests.

    Kristi

    Here is a link that might be useful: homepage for Coursera

  • zen4d
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For those who may not know, the Gold Coast of Connecticut has excellent public schools - and very close to Mt Rd. In our own family, we have an ivy league graduate, two service academy graduates, a little ivy, and a daughter just finishing her graduate degree from a very prestigious school in England (who graduated college from our state university). All went to public high schools; never pressured about getting into the "right" college. No machinations, no calculations, no hyper-analyzations.

    Re BS: Friends of ours, who analyzed college opportunities carefully, sent their daughter to one of the BSs mentioned. Things happened.... And she never told her parents about those experiences until her last year (and they have a very close and loving family). It's affected her life in a negative way.

    Mtn: I'm not saying BS is not the correct path for some. It can be the right fit for the right person, and from your posts, it seems like your child may love it, since that is something she desires. However, it is difficult to monitor your child when they're away. I always found the first fifteen minutes after the school day were the most important 15 minutes in the parent-child relationship, the time where you, the parent, can look at your child and get a feel for their day, their mood, their life - before they even say a word.


    Another friend went to an elite school not mentioned and she loved it; however, I can tell you she is not any more well-rounded or more successful than students from the public schools in our area. She is skinny and pretty and wears pearls with sweatshirts. She has the potential for success - which admittedly I'm not sure how to define in this context: precollege success, college success, career, future family, life fulfillment or right connections. But after her, let's say precollege, success at BS and getting into an ivy, she had problems adjusting, dropped out for a year (her parents made a deal with the school, saying she was basically doing NGO; she even visited poverty.) She is back at the ivy now. Her parents are funding her startup company that she plans to sell as soon as it really "gets off the ground," is what she says. She's educated, for sure, but...

    "sometimes the only thing that interferes with learning is education."

    kwim?

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lol, Zen, I know exactly what you mean!

    Again this post was about a very narrow q and I've gotten input on that and decided.

    On the broader q of rigorous boarding schools, I'm trying to find a balance between following my daughter's lead, listening to her school (which is biased toward being able to publish as many illustrious matriculations as possible) and our own common sense as parents.

    She remains intent on getting into one of the best, but I think until she has visited them that doesn't hold much weight. She (and we) have no real idea yet where she would be happy. I guess that is one good reason to start two years early,

    I've no doubt she will do well on whatever path she chooses, but if she chooses a boarding school and we think the experience is worth our sacrifice, of course we will do that for her.

  • patty_cakes
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Even if I could have afforded to send my kids(5)to BS, realistically I don't feel I could ever have had them 'out of my sight' for days on end. When I was younger and my desire was to have a large family, the single, *biggest* part, was having the day to day camaraderie of the family. Planning activities, helping out with homework, as well as being involved with the school and helping when needed were things I looked forward to. Not having evening meals together to discuss the days happenings, good or bad, would surely have been missed, as well as having the kids do their various household chores, familiarizing them to what it takes to run a home and be a part of a family. Being a parent is sometimes a selfless 'job' where time constraints also become an issue. If you're a working mom, you may want to take a few days off and just be with DH, or a few days vacation with friends, yet your kids have a project due, a play-off on those same days, or a school event they're looking forward to, and someone needs to take the back seat. With the kids being away at school, how do you stay involved in their lives, teach them life's lessons, and form a close bond? Are kids being raised to believe that success and money is all that matters, and everything else is insignificant?

    Over the last several years, it seems the word 'entitlement' is referenced when talking about young people, how they have expectations, yet believe they don't have to make a conscious effort to contribute anything of themselves. In this case, there is the expectation of good grades, but what is the 'learning experience' of it all, other than that of success and money? My gosh folks, has it come down to THAT? All the money in the world will not remove a life threatening illness, give you the ability to become pregnant/father a child, save a disastrous marriage, the possibility of losing every penny to bad investments, and God forbid, take you before you've had the chance to enjoy what you worked so hard to accumulate.

    I'm just wondering, what is the message we're giving our kids?

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Pattycakes,

    It wasn't really the gist of my post to argue for or against a BS education, especially since I did not attend one and we are only learning about them. But since I am the OP, I will give this one a go.

    I said it before, but the post has gotten unwieldy to go back and read, for sure, so I will say it again...Giving up some of the every-day-ness, from grades 9-12, would be a true sacrifice. Part of the reason DH and I retired so young was to allow us to be uber-involved in our kids's schools, activities and lives generally , and we are. We get a lot of enjoyment out of it and (most of the time) they do, too. But if you have a kid who is willing to work very, very hard at a worthwhile goal that they value, it is hard to say "no".

    You seem to assume that schools don't spend any time on morals, character, community service (or maybe that they don't mean it). Many if not most private schools (boarding and day) have ecclesiastical roots, and issues of honor and morals and service are very important to the culture. Character education is not mere lip service, and community service requirements are meaningful, from what I have observed. Personally, i find it quite different from my generation and quite heartening. Moreover, since neither DH nor I practice a formal religion, we appreciate that our children, via private school, have had to attend chapel services and Quaker meetings. Their academic environments enhance what we try to teach them.

    You are also assuming that all boarding school aspirants are interested solely or primarily in monetary success. Many are, of course. Such is true of any random group of Americans as well. But, I do not think that BS aspirants are unusually mercenary at all. First of all, a good chunk of them come from generational wealth that kind of leaves them free to pursue something more... interesting, if you will. I notice there is a heavy emphasis on the arts at these schools; drama, music. Film making, fine arts, writing. And a fair amount of people interested in public service, the environment, humanitarian work. I am certainly not saying it's all "kumbaya", but these schools are in real demand, and they can find more than enough smart hard working kids, so they look for interesting, smart, hard working kids. People who can make a difference, not just a living. (not matter how good a living)
    Frankly, without getting too political about it, these schools tend to be very liberal and rather socialist-leaning, and if anything I would say they would somewhat teach their kids to eschew the pursuit of filthy lucre! (all the while asking their parents for some more of it, please)

  • kswl2
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I would say they would somewhat teach their kids to eschew the pursuit of filthy lucre! (all the while asking their parents for some more of it, please)"

    You must have X-ray eyes to see what's in my mailbox mtn. Not only my kids' schools, BSs and colleges, but my nephews'. Word to the wise....train yourself to say "I hope you don't mind but we're new and would like to consider it for a year" when you hear the words "we need someone like you on our board of_______" (fill in the blanks with Governors, Trustees, Visitors, Council of, etc)

    Once they find out how organized you are you will be in hot demand for any board vacancy. They may actually push someone down a flight of stairs to create a vacancy for you, lol!

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