I think you are feeling a bit of "Bad World Syndrome". The media spins every story, event and trend as bad.

I am actually impressed by kids today. I think that our schools are far far better, more creative and more thoughtful places. I see an emphasis on community and on kindness, and an awareness of the world and mother earth, that there was none of when I was a kid.

I totally agree with you on the level of violence. Seems like each tv show has to top each other in violence and gore in order to get ratings. Watchers become desensitized to violence to some degree and as the saying goes, violence breeds violence.

I'm sick of seeing it on entertainment tv. Bring back shows like the Waltons. I find myself watching classic tv more than current tv.

I know you aren't just talking about tv. I see changes that I don't think are for the better in so many areas. And I wonder if I just never noticed the changes when I was younger or if they were changes that my age pushed forward.

I have also noticed that I am less tolerant of change and many other things now that I have entered the senior years. And yes, there are a lot of good changes too. And it's good to see that there are people like mtnrdredux who notice the good over the bad.

This post was edited by marti8a on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 11:23

I get what you're saying, mtnrd, and it's good to know that there are still good schools and good kids, but I suspect your kids and your schools are out in the 5 and 6 sigma tails...not where most kids live. For example your area and surrounding towns have 4-yr graduation rates in the 90% range, vs. Waterbury at 68% and...Bridgeport at 56% and can this be right...Norwich at 29%???

Are we becoming a Latin American country where we have a small class of wealthy and well-educated students and a large class of poorly educated and largely unemployable people?

I think there's always good and bad changes as time goes by. Sad that it's the bad things that make the headlines hence the reason I try and avoid watching the news, though not so easy when hubby is home. I do feel it is important to stay up to date on some current events, others just cause too much stress and for me stress causes pain. I've more than enough of both at the moment.
So I'm kind of in the middle on this one, though I totally understand where you're coming from Annie. There are times current events scare the heck out of me.
Oh and have you ever watched the TV show Elementary?

Here is a link that might be useful: Elementary

Annie,

I am comparing the public schools here (which my kids don't attend) to the public schools where I grew up (in a a similarly affluent area). So I think it is a fair comparison.
(Edited to add, by way of clarification. All of my kids went to public school thru 4th grade, and we were both very active volunteering for the school and working in the classrooms. Although none of our kids are in high school yet, public or otherwise, we also volunteered in writing programs in the high school, and continue to serve on the non-profit that provides funding for additional initiatives throughout the school system - so we feel we know the public schools pretty well.)

As to your second point, now we are talking Lorenz curve. And I think this is a huge problem, akin to the roaring 20s. Whether one is idealogically liberal or conservative, I think it is hard to argue that the income inequality we have is not sustainable in a democracy. And of course, that income inequality translates into all other inequalities. It concerns me.

We had this conversation at a dinner with friends recently. I remember the controversy over free trade and what it did to autoworkers jobs sent overseas. Since no one in my family or my circle had those kinds of jobs anyway,back then it was a theoretical, dispassionate discussion of the "guns and butter" sort. But today, a lot of the service industry jobs for new college grads are outsourced (eg junior analysts at investment banks now include people working remotely in Sri Lanka). Now, I am thinking long and hard about what jobs will be there for those kids who aren't college material, or even for those who are.

This post was edited by mtnrdredux on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 12:32

I agree with Martia,
I have never been fond of violence, but I find that as I get older, I am even less tolerant of violence on TV. There does seem to be more of it and very graphic. I always wonder what families do for TV in the evening. Even the comedies are sometimes gross or adult oriented. The families on TV are always dysfunctional.

I am sure many will disagree with me, but the arguments against violence in the media, always remind me of the arguments against rock n roll in the 50s. Notably the same movies, shows, and video games that we protest for being too violent here in the states are available in Canada and Europe. Yet the same appalling murder rates are not.

Do you believe one aspect of pop culture is a significant cause for murder rates? If do how are you controlling for the variations in gun laws, drug laws, cartel presence, mental health care, education inequalities, economic disparities, density of population, and the list continues. In short, I think the perceived increase in media violence is not a significant factor.

I was a little confused when you said "is it just an accident that the US ranks second only to Mexico in the OECD for murder rates and highest in the world for incarceration rates? While we rank 16th out of 23 in adult numeracy and 20th for literacy?"

If you were asking are literacy and numeracy rates linked to the murder rates, then I too agree. They are. We should be more worried about these issues in society than violence in the media. However if you were implying that violence in media is causing a decline in literacy rates, then I am having difficulty understanding your logical reasoning.

In regards to the incarceration rates we, the US, are a prison society. However, that has little if anything to do with your question and more to do with drug laws, economic inequality, the inability to rehabilitate offenders in our current system, and the privatization of our penal system.

Karenseb:

Answer ; we don't watch TV. And it is hard to find movies to watch, too.

And I think we are pretty liberal and openminded --- meaning to say that we are not religious "extremists" (whatever that means), and in fact are not even religious at all, but we do find that the vast majority of entertainment out there is violent, mean-spirited, unnecessarily adult, and portrays the non-norm as the norm. I agree that we should have a very generous definition of family, but why can't we ever portray happy and in tact ones?

The only thing we watch on TV is Chopped and Househunters. I know nothing untoward will be on those, and they are arguably educational. The only "gaming" we have is Wii sports. My kids use their (limited and structured) screentime for Minecraft, Campus Life and Fruit ninja. All pretty harmless IMHO.

We really have to work to find movies that don't contain at least a few cringeworthy nuggets. Next up on our list is West Side Story.

I think our kids are a little backward, esp our 14 yo son. But I can live with that. Better than Grand Theft Auto.

I am not a conspiracy theory kind of person, but I truly believe that this country is no longer a democracy - it's an oligarchy.

The powers-that-be have to maintain the illusion of a democracy and part of that illusion is to keep the public satiated with pablum & pulp. Luxury-looking products that can be purchased at Target; sophisticated gadgets and technology available to the general public; violent, lurid, mind-numbing entertainment; etc.

I think our culture is harsher and more violent than in years past. Not because I think the incidents of murder and mayhem are more common but because we should know better. In the past, people were ignorant about human behavior - why we do what we do - and therefore, less compassionate. Now, I think people are less compassionate because they are simply desensitized.

We are on the precipice of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four.

On the TV question above, TV is just not a big part of our lives as a family. Number one, the cost of cable is ridiculous. We watch the football that we can get with an antenna. DH watches SHIELD with the kids. Other TV is generally what they can get on PBS (they love Nature and one kid enjoys antiques roadshow). For gaming, we are pretty limited to Angry Birds and Minecraft. My 15-year-old son does have a war game that is a strategy type game, he is not allowed to play anything with bodies. My kids have seen some of the modern action flicks (like Iron Man) but it is in limited doses. Of course, the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are biggies for us. However, they also watch Pride and Prejudice, Shakespeare, etc. Dh was joking with our youngest (who is the) and asked him why he did not watch cartoons on Saturday mornings and he just asked his dad what on earth he was talking about. He is not even aware of cartoons on in the morning. We also have a no device rule on Sundays, no ipods, gaming or computer time. Much to their amazement, they have managed to live.

I think the point is yes, some of that is out there and there are those are eagerly taking it in and some are passively taking it in, but not everybody is.

Democracy never existed in the US. It was and is a republic. Sure a democratic republic, but a republic. The founders didn't trust the masses. Some would even argue that the most powerful positions in American politics are not elected positions but appointments (sc justices, cabinet positions etc) More people are noticing now that the middle class is shrinking and the middle class interests no longer align with the ruling class. Interesting point about the pablum and pulp, but again something that is not new. I think we are just becoming more aware of these tricks.

Technology has afforded instant access to anything. `News` is reported as it happens and on multitudes of outlets. Rarely is it vetted before being made viral, and seldom is there a retraction made that spreads as quickly.

Television competes with the internet to stay relevant so broadcasts become more and more insidious hoping to lure viewers. Years ago we didnt have hundreds of channels that broadcast 24/7. We didnt have insta-celebs from everyday people. We didn`t have factory outlets and internet shopping that brought you fake designer goods.

More young people today are tuned in to on-line technology (which is unregulated) than movies or TV. Even the music industry feels the impact. As a result, corporate media is scrambling to stay relevant and goes for the lowest common denominator- shock value.

Internet access has changed the world and the society needs to understand that, and understand the implication of unfettered information. Im afraid the cat is out of the bag on that one and we`re going to experience a whole new societal change. Just the other day a young man was murdered on a train, no one apparently noticed his killer waving a gun around as they were all wrapped up in their phones & tablets. Welcome to the Brave New World.

Technology has afforded instant access to anything. `News` is reported as it happens and on multitudes of outlets. Rarely is it vetted before being made viral, and seldom is there a retraction made that spreads as quickly.

Television competes with the internet to stay relevant so broadcasts become more and more insidious hoping to lure viewers. Years ago we didnt have hundreds of channels that broadcast 24/7. We didnt have insta-celebs from everyday people. We didn`t have factory outlets and internet shopping that brought you fake designer goods.

More young people today are tuned in to on-line technology (which is unregulated) than movies or TV. Even the music industry feels the impact. As a result, corporate media is scrambling to stay relevant and goes for the lowest common denominator- shock value.

Internet access has changed the world and the society needs to understand that, and understand the implication of unfettered information. Im afraid the cat is out of the bag on that one and we`re going to experience a whole new societal change. Just the other day a young man was murdered on a train, no one apparently noticed his killer waving a gun around as they were all wrapped up in their phones & tablets. Welcome to the Brave New World.

I guess i asked a multifold question.

Iheartschnauzer, I actually am not making an argument against media violence, though one certainly could. I'm asking a different question about brains vs brawn, and what we are reaping in terms of people and skills and ability to compete in a global market place when our culture, as evidenced by our tv and movies, seems to favor the latter over the former, at the same time technology and economic forces clearly favor the former over the latter.

I recognize that the influence is circular....the more we glorify brawn, the more money effort, and attention is given to the brawny, the more cultural interests focus on the brawny, the more the media serves those interests, and so on.

I'm reminded of what Mark Twain said over a century ago about education...that if you don't put money into schools, you won't save anything as you'll just need to build more jails instead.

And the larger question about if it is a natural part of the aging process to lament for the old and fear for the new, or if there aren't significant long term trends at work that, unless reversed, will lead us to negative consequences. Are we soon to be, as Jared Diamond asked, the man on Easter Island who cut down that last palm tree? Or am I just getting to be an old crank?

Annie, they are re-foresting Easter Island!

I haven't read the rest of the thread. I heartily agree with you about folks level of tolerance for violence. It takes more and more stimulation for people to be interested. Be it more pictures in text books because students get bored and won't read as much text or the need for more and more "action" in movies and books in the way of vivid depictions .

It isn't even enough to have food that is simply wonderful to eat...it must almost jump off of the plate and grab the diner in order to pique their interest.

The prevalence of over stimulation will not be getting less. We have twitter, Facebook, Instant messaging....I don't even know what all since I don't participate in any of it. We don't even have a TV and haven't had for years.

I didn't comment on the thread about the show Breaking Bad. I had never heard of it. I read Annie's comment and it was exactly what I would have said so I said nothing. What I did do was Google "is Breaking Bad violent?". What I read from that one inquiry convinced me that the issue Annie is addressing here is not unfounded at all. Anyone that would watch that TV show or others like it such as Boardwalk Empire and Sopranos to name two have a tolerance for violence and an ability to fill their heads with pictures that I would never ever pollute my mental space with. c

Mtnrd, I suppose that's a better late than never?

I often find myself asking "what is the world coming to". DH and I sometimes discuss whether or not things are really any worse than they ever were or does every generation go through this same thought process at our age. Can't really say.

I wonder if violence is any better or worse than it was when cowboys walked into the saloon and shot someone or had a shoot out in the street. Not that we don't want to become more civilized but bad behavior seems to be inherent in a certain percentage of the population.

I had guns and holsters and played shoot 'em up cowboy as a kid (cowgirl I guess). I'm about as far from violent as anyone could possibly be. Now kids get kicked out of school for holding up a piece of pizza they chewed into a gun shape. When I hear stuff like that I do ask myself what the world is coming to.....

I personally think we'd be better off if people of all ages and all types held themselves and/or were held more accountable for their actions. We seem to coddle people more and more in this country. Something or someone else is always to blame.

Annie, thanks for the clarification. It is my third chemo day this week and I'm certain that if I read this next week I wouldn't have been so obtuse. I will comment another day when I'm thinking more clearly.

I'm so sorry to hear you are going through chemo...may it go quickly for you, painlessly and be most successful!

iheartgiantschnauzer, I echo what Annie just posted to you ("I'm so sorry to hear you are going through chemo...may it go quickly for you, painlessly and be most successful!")

Our cable provider has starting running some programming that we watched growing up. In particular the 6 million dollar man.

DH and I remember watching that show and enjoying it as young teens. Now we truly realize how simplistic and even hoakey it is.

We were discussing this, and I mentioned that during the time that show was popular, the evening news, both national and local, was very popular, and often reported on some things that were shocking and violent. Wars, hostages, government espionage, and the like were reported in depth on the news and in the papers.

But due to the commercial television code, entertainment programs were censored for content and outcomes (good actions rewarded, no promiscuous behavior,etc.)

Now it seems our news is completely sensationalized and shallow (why can't a woman journalist wear sleeves or eyeglasses) , and we have "reality" TV -the new night-time soap operas since no one is home during the day to watch the old ones.

Let's also remember why there are TV shows. *To sell things.

The entertainment is not the purpose, it is the by-product. Ad revenue is the purpose.

So yes, I am afraid that as one ages out of the 18-34 demographic, one is "getting old" in this game.

Annie~
As for my part ,I just want to say that I am sorry you felt "bashed".
It was surly not my intent.

Annie & Marlene thank you for the kind thoughts.

Annie, I hope I didn't come off as bashing you in the melody thread. Just as forboystoo said it wasn't my intent. I like discussing opposing opinions.

This isn't a philosophical comment on our cultural morass - just an observation on this evening's TV.

Tonight I'm home alone and rather anxiously waiting for an important telephone call. To keep my mind occupied I turned on the TV and I'm watching Revolution. I can't believe this show is airing at 8 pm. I've never seen it before and I'm amazed at the amount of violence - torture, beatings, shootings, suicide, death by hatchet, sword and crossbow, ...not to mention that apparently this takes place after bombs have dropped on Atlanta, Washington and Philadelphia and there are various armed factions warring for control of the country.

Yet Modern Family which I find to be an enjoyable light comedy and suitable for most viewers is on at 9. I'm sure this is driven by advertising dollars - Modern Family has a number of awards and is considered a hit show and 9pm is the prime of prime time.

Shows like Revolution should be relegated to 10 pm.
What ever happened to Standards and Practices?

The 10 pm for violence time slot was always an east coast/west coast thing anyway as folks in central time saw the 10pm shows at 9 and at 8 in mountain time. Now that they give the warnings and the ratings, I guess they don't care any more... in fact I think the warnings are given to help boost viewership.

And when it comes to news, don't get me started! Now that we have 24 hr news channels, we actually have time for decent analysis as well as coverage, but we certainly don't get that. Instead we get a race to get "news" out regardless of how factual, and analysis that consists of 3 or 4 people all trying to talk over each other so it's impossible to hear any of them...or analysts who think that their POV is more correct if they say it loudly. Some how, some where, some way, there must be a way of getting to factual coverage and real analysis without going dull, biased or crazy.

But I would suggest that news used to be a public service and it wasn't expected to make money for the network. This is no longer the case, so they are now competing with prime time for eyeballs, and thus the "news" version of T&A and violence and action is readily apparent. And I would also suggest that, in order to appeal to the masses, they have to "dumb down" the coverage...more of the impact of low educational achievement and the shift in emphasis from brains to brawn.

Annie, it's not you getting old and grumpy, it's the lack of gentility that used to exist in most of our country years ago. The manners, the respect, the art of conversation rather than screaming talking heads, the industries that supply our entertainment stupidly believing that shock an awe in your face is a good thing. The constant stimulation, loudness, crassness, anger, negativity all around us. Just driving to Boston today and stuck in traffic I saw four incidents of road rage and giving the finger. What???? Luckily I like in a quiet town where people really care about each other. I avoid all "vexations to the spirit". I fear for our children and what they are expected to experience in their lives. Just look at the sexual norms today and the low standards. They have to deal with hiv, aids, sds and on and on. BUT then I think of all the wonderful young and old people who go and help out at food kitchens and pitch in when needed. I see it all around me and that gives me hope that one day it will level off and go back to a need for a simpler life when talking and listening was so much fun. We didn't need entertainment, we made each other laugh. Yes and laughing doesn't occur often enough on t.v. or in the movies. I could go on and on, heck I just don't watch the news or ever watch violence. I read an avoid visuals. I'm finishing out my life in my kind of reality and blocking out the rest. I'm not in denial but in a state of hope.

"Are we becoming a Latin American country where we have a small class of wealthy and well-educated students and a large class of poorly educated and largely unemployable people?"

Yes, a thousand times, YES! It has already happened.

Adding--- you are also getting old, old enough to have a backward perspective that is at once mature, compassionate and thoughtful. I never thought about these issues this way in my twenties. My parents were the old "country club Republicans" who by today's party standards would practically be considered liberal. I changed my party affiliation in my thirties in response to the fundamentalist takeover of the party by the old Moral majority movement, if anyone remembers that one.

This post was edited by kswl on Thu, Oct 10, 13 at 8:11

Annie, I surprise myself at times at what a stick in the mud I’m becoming as I age. My husband and I are often in disagreement over what movies to watch, it seems it must at least suggest violence for him to even consider. My pet peeve above the violence issue is the sex in practically everything on TV. While I never thought of myself as a prude, maybe I’m becoming one? The TV is often left on here at my son’s house with no one watching. Practically every time I walk into the living area there is a huffing, puffing and panting sex scene on. Why is it sooo necessary to have sex in nearly everything? I don’t get it! I like the old movies where that part was left to the imagination. I just don’t need all that heavy breathing to enjoy a movie or late night show.

I agree about the gratuitous sex and violence on t.v. I find most t.v. programming offensive, boring, and an insult to my intelligence. It does disturb me that apparently a majority of viewers find value in it. Even House Hunters is getting on my nerves; thank goodness for pre-recorded shows and the ability to fast forward!

Trail, I was thinking about the concept of over stimulation and I think that there are 2 possibilities with it. One situation is some people will require more and more to become sated. Whereas, there are others like me who hit a saturation point. I can enjoy junk food (fat, calories, sugar, salt) and I can enjoy an action flick (Iron Man, Sherlock Holmes) but I can only handle them on a limited basis, some of us hit a point of diminishing returns. I literally do not have the attention span for much of television or even movies. I am not so sure this is an age thing on my part because I am only 35 and was raised on movies with increasing amounts of action and junk food but now it does not satisfy in the way it once did.

What I am finding interesting now with television is my husband used to never watch it. He used to be more inclined to read in the evenings but he has a new job that leaves him drained mentally and he has begun to embrace the escape of television, if for a little while. It seems to be necessary for him at this point.

Agree on the saturation level .... and hereabouts we do love supernatural, sci-fi and thrillers on tv and books ...

((just finished Stephen King's Doctor Sleep ))

And I agree that We are far more used to seeing horrible violence on all levels of TV and in real life too ... so more and more is needed to turn heads to their show or channel ...and sell their sponsors' goods and services

Its All About the Money!

RE: "Latin American country" -- Yes, indeed we are becoming exactly that kind of place.

Yes, violence is an issue in modern society, and yes, with age you have acquired a level of wisdom that recognizes it.

I think what has evolved in the last few decades is a culture that is sedated thru pharmaceuticals, OTC drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, unhealthy foods (especially sugar), and easily accessible street drugs. This means that many people do not feel the same emotion to violence as those not so sedated. Violence is often portrayed as a positive and necessary reaction to the perceived unfairness of life.

IMO much of our culture's problems with violence stem from the entitlement so many seem to feel is their right. Drugs and lack of accountability as well as previously mentioned by another poster.

I watch little TV and usually only early in the evening. I'd rather read a book.

As far as movies are concerned I no longer ever go to theaters to watch first runs but wait til they are on TV and don't watch many of those. That leaves me completely out of the loop with conversations with my kids who see all the new ones. When they visit we sometimes rent movies but my criteria is no violence, only romance, mystery, fashion, and home decor! Greatly at odds with my DS who likes Sci-Fi, violence, and dark subjects. He usually defers to my criteria and finds something I like reasonably well. I even find some of the movies my young GC watch disturbing. My 5 year old GD often likes me to watch the scary ones with her so she feels safer. Sad commentary on Disney.

That's very interesting.

I know with food that if you get used to eating salt, you need to add more to taste it. If you go salt free for awhile, then you become more sensitive to it again and you can enjoy food with a far lower level of salt again.

I hadn't thought about a similar occurrence in entertainment, but I guess it may be so. I have gone back and watched some of the very old shows that are rerun on tv and have found them pretty white bread compared to the more modern stuff. Perhaps it's the same situation...since I haven't kept up with the growing violence in movies and such, I'm more sensitive to it than the folks who have.

And it may relate to our trend toward over indulgence in everything...food...violent entertainment...gratuitous sex...goods...instant gratification. The entire global marketing system has been driven to teach us to want more and to want more now, and to want it bigger and better...and apparently it's working, from waistlines to Mc Mansions.

"I think what has evolved in the last few decades is a culture that is sedated thru pharmaceuticals, OTC drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, unhealthy foods (especially sugar), and easily accessible street drugs. This means that many people do not feel the same emotion to violence as those not so sedated."

Disagree strongly.

I think that "well-educated" can be a relative term.

This is a rural area.
There are no private schools here.
Pretty much everyone goes to public school here together.
All races, religions, and income levels.

Regardless of their race, religion, or income:
Some parents will greatly involve themselves in making sure their child takes advantage of the educational opportunity.
And some won't.

Some parents will prohibit graphically violent video games and movies.
And some won't.

Some parents will prohibit sexually provocative clothing.
And some won't.

I've volunteered in the schools for many years.
I have four children and have attended hundreds of school events.

Sometimes we want to think that money is the answer, but money won't help anything unless it is accompanied by hard work. However, hard work can help immensely, even if there is little money.

So it's my opinion that it isn't family income nor school funding that means the most.
It's doing the hard work of being a parent.

P.S. Call your local public schools and ask about volunteering!

:)

have to agree with kelly and kwsl totally...

we are living in the last of days of 'empire'

empires do not last forever...a good 200 years if lucky

i personally think you would have to be blind not to see this...

1984 is here

bread and circuses to keep the proles sated while the cronys and 'elites' are the pigs at the trough....

'some animals are more equal than others'

can this be any more blatant as it is today?

to the poster who lamented breaking bad...

i suggest not criticizing that which you have not seen

breaking bad is a morality play of the highest order

yes, it may affect one's thin skinned sensibilities....

but if you watch the show with a discerning spirit as to just what happens to a person when 'good becomes evil'....it is a lesson that *should* cause deep introspection into the plight of the human spirit..shakespeare would be proud

This does not belong on this thread!

I look back at the past and remember how much worse things use to be - race riots every week (yes we have some now, but not nearly as many as in the 1960s), public lynchings, police forces even more corrupt than they are now, the Vietnam War (similar to the Gulf War we had recently, which fortunately did not last as long), etc.
I attribute your concern to the fact that there are twice as many people in the world now as there were 40 or 50 years ago. People have not gotten worse - there are just more of them.
When I was a child, interracial marriage was illegal (where I grew up in Texas), and even Sears had segregated restrooms. Being gay was considered a mental illness.

I am not nostalgic for that past.

I think that the media is a huge problem. You can count on the fact that they pretty much rule the country with all the info we get and it's not always accurate. They can actually now go and film wars and other violent acts live. That was not the case many years ago.

Technology has made many people less social. I watched two boys texting a couple of girls who were five apart on a boat. What?!!? No talking, just texting. That's just one of a bazillion various examples.

We have these violent games kids play and they are so realistic it is frightening.

One thing that has changed is school punishment. I used to get spanked with a large paddle for being tardy or talking during class etc. You would never hear of this today and it was a ridiculous act that was allowable in schools.