Gold, just remember that alcohol is a neurotoxin that causes psychosis in chronic alcoholics. To say Derek is not himself right now, is a massive understatement. Still not an excuse for his violence but it is a reason.

Please do all you can to not communicate with him right now. It would be like talking to a stranger and your conversations will be pointless and just cause further hurt. He needs treatment and in his sobriety he will reach out to you.

It isn't just his alcoholism that is at play here. It's Attachment Disorder. Pre Cognitive abuse is the most difficult to fix. It forms your brain. The lack of trust; the inability to perceive what love looks like. It's not like dealing with just an alcoholic. It's dealing with a Psychopath.

I read that the closest feeling to love is adrinalin. He stalks us. He demands things. He is a disaster on wheels. He lost two iPhones in seven weeks. One he says was stolen. Another he lost and then found but while it was lost, he hyper-focused on me, NOT finding his phone. He thought i should buy him a new one. (Crazy thinking, if you know me.) He wasn't drunk. Just entitled, controlling and extremely manipulative.

Can't use just tough love on him or one might end up dead. It is more comparable to playing Chess with a crazy person and your life is the purse.

He made crazy demands like me buying him another phone and when I calmly refuse, he said, "Come on, Mom. Treat me like a son." I reply, "I am treating you like a son. I'm treating you like an adult son. You are not five years old."

He is huge. Big broad shoulders and he uses his physical mightbtonhis advantage. It's sad but I can't ever put myself at risk again.

Such a painful and difficult situation. My sister has dealt with a similar situation for so many years. She often fears for her life. Restraining orders, etc. Her adult son is schizophrenic and when he is not taking his meds he drinks and it is very scary.

There is only so much you can do. Even though you love your son, you have to reach a point where you say...this is enough. I hope his biological family is able to help him.

You have done more than most people would ever do. Remember that. Now, it may be time to protect yourselves and your own mental health.

I'm actually one of the most sane people I know. That is a bold statement but it's true. At least in my head.

Derek often says he gets his stubbornness from me but years ago, I decided to draw the line at normal and don't let him cross. When he is doing something right, I praise him. I have had him in counseling.

I've gone to counseling when I couldn't figure out what to do with him, thinking I needed more skills. The parenting books on my shelf could scare anyone. 'Children without a Conscience'. 'Do you know my Child?'. On and on. In his teen years, it was like living with a built in terrorist. I'd be gardening in my veggie garden, dodging rocks he was throwing at me. Not stones. Rocks that would surely kill me if they hit my head.

He spent his 18th birthday in Juvinail Hall for stealing my car, after breaking my ribs.

At least the family responsible for his condition is willing to try to fix him. I just can not.

I need to remind myself that I did an amazing job with Max and Aimee. I need to focus on that today.

How interesting because my brother is the same - entitled, controlling, manipulative, chip on his shoulder. My mom made him move out of her house when he was 40 after living with her for five years. He said she "abandoned" him.

I've often thought that my brother has a personality disorder beyond the alcoholism. Brother took the brunt of our father's abusive when he was little.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with all of this. Take care of yourself.

Gold, so many wonderful words of wisdom as well as compassion said already. I can only add that I too, am so sorry you are having to deal with this. I hope that he is able to rise up out of the depths of his darkness and get the help he needs.

I'm so sorry to hear about all this, golddust. You are in my thoughts, and I'm sending hugs your way.

Gold, I just want to say thank you for your post. I felt like a bad person for so long while my stepson was in our lives. I put up with so much judgement and blame from others for his behavior. Then when he turned against his dad, physically beating him up (and he is a BIG guy) people started to understand that we were living with a kid who was not `normal`.

Then when he went on to physically attack a girlfriend and his Grandmother, his mother and that part of his family got to experience the nightmare I`d put up with for 15 years. Until he attacked his dad he hadnot been physphysically violent, but he also did things to hurt people (like the rocks!) and would laugh when he hurt people. Also was (is) unaware of consequences, narcissistic, blames others for everything, paranoid, on and on.

DH was not the custodial parent, so we were limited to what we could do for him, ntil he turned 15 and his mother dumped him off on us. Immediately put him in counseling but hes like a psychopath-could fool them and make them think we were just being overreactive, vindictive parents (blaming the mother per the kid).

So he sid come back for a short time after aperiod of eestrangement- I didnt trust him but D did-until aftet a couple months the kid got back onto the drugs and starting getting creepy again. He left, no contact for a few months, came back for a week and freaked out D so bad that hes not communicated with him since.

D carries tremendous guilt-asd o I, but mine is from subjecting my kids to such trauma. Never before have I experienced someone with mental health issues. Its so frightening, and kept so quiet! Families dont speak about it.

Thank you for sharing. Peace to you all.

I too am so sorry for what your are going through. I watched my parents deal with problems with two of my brothers. It is so hard to know what to do and always second-guessing the decisions you make. He is violent and you need to do what you have to do to protect yourselves. Heartless as it may sound, I hope you have changed your locks. Perhaps you should cut off direct contact with him and just communicate with his bio father and brother to see how he is doing. I can only hope your son will get the professional help he needs.

My daughter's friend began showing signs of schizophrenia shortly after my daughter moved in with her. My daughter became frightened by her behavior and we live 400 miles away so we could not have been immediate help to her if she needed it. Her parents couldn't do much as she was legally an adult. It's really a shame that parents (who know their children best!) are not able to take control and commit their adult children to treatment facilities when necessary.

I hope you get some peace....you deserve it.

Broken ribs? Bruised chest and arms? I can only begin to imagine how bruised your hearts are, as well. My heart goes out to you and your husband. This has obviously been a long nightmare for you both.

Please know that over the years, you have become known to us here on this forum as a wonderful, extremely kind, thoughtful, patient and giving person, Goldie. There's no doubt in my mind that you've given Derek the kind of normal life every kid deserves. But sometimes things just go very badly inside someone's head who has mental and/ or alcoholic issues.

I feel for Derek and hope that he can someday ~soon~ count himself as a recovering alcoholic and stay with it. But, I can't help but be very worried for your continued safety and that of your family. Please do everything you can to stay safe from Derek. I'm going to keep you all in my prayers. And please know that we're all here whenever you need to vent and just talk.
Lynn

Prayers for you from here. ❤.

Beth P.

Has he ever been evaluated for bipolar or other similar conditions with irrational behavior? They often self-medicate with alcohol and drugs.

He has been under every care available to man. He has been diagnosed with Attachment Disorder, Personality Disorder, Narissistic, you name it. But by the time he was old enough to realize what the Professionals were saying, we decided we didn't want him labeled. So we started seeking help for us to help him. Maybe that was a wrong decision but at the time, we felt he was being singled out and they were creating 'the bad child'. Idealists? Yes, we were, in retrospect.

But that concept worked very well until he experimented with alcohol as a teen and lost all his childhood friends because he was violent with them when he drank. Then he went downhill fast and he wasn't open to getting help. He was too big to force to do anything and he became hyper focused on hurting me.

There is no perfect family but I thought we were doing well with him. He was Co-Captain of his soccer team, doing well in school. Then he tasted alcohol and all of his personality issues bloomed in full force.

I lost a post where I wrote about getting Trailrunners response via email today. Aimee and I were on our way to a play day with Spin. We were spending the day as Grandmas, taking him to play in water fountains.

I tried to read the most recent post, from Trail, in this thread but I couldn't get through it because I broke down mid-way. I intended to read her the whole thread as she drove and Spenser slept. I could not get though the most recent post.

Thank you for being my friends. Thank you all for the faith you have in me and the unending support I have received here. I've said it before and I am saying it again. I love you all.

Thank you.

Gold,

I don't know if you have ever considered attending Al-Anon meetings, but they saved my life. They are for you, not for the alcoholic. It somehow helped me to release a lot of the resentment toward my son while simultaneously protecting myself from him and not feeling like I was responsible for his illness, and to not feel so alone in the very difficult journey of having a family member who suffers from this disease. Lots of people in there with dual-diagnosis relatives, too (addiction and mental illness go hand in hand).

Thinking of you today and sending healing love and energy from Texas!

Jana

Funny you should mention that. I am going to my first meeting at 6:00 this evening.

Your last post brought tears to my eyes, golddust. I wanted to wish you "good luck" for your meeting tonight.

So glad you are going to a meeting tonight - you will be in the best possible place to get support. I find myself thinking about you as I go through my day and want you to know how much you are loved here.

That is fantastic! I hope you will find it a place of healing, transformation, and safety as I have.

Jana

(((golddust))) as you go through the Al-Anon door tonight. Take care of yourself through this process. For now, you have done all you can do for your son.

Well I was the first person to speak. I told them my story and they recommend I protect myself. Duh. I've done a great job at that and my very life attests to that...

Our community drug center ("State of The Art") has never dealt with my situation. They admitted it after my story. The other participants were pathetic people I truely felt sorry for their lack of life skills.

I don't know if it can help me. Please tell me different.

Maybe it was an off night. I'll keep trying Family Recovery but listening to everyones stories was depressing. I felt like so many people have narrowed their options down to the point where nothing can work. It was hard to keep my mouth shut.

One Lady was there for her mentally ill daughter who is in her 40's. She starts out with the fact that she doesn't like/trust the Medical Profession. She thinks all Drs are drug pushers...

Then proceeds to recount the saddest mental illness story ever and how her daughter won't get help because she is terrified of the Medical Profession. She will die on the spot if Mom suggests treatment. (Wonder who taught the daughter to be so afraid of the Medical Profession?) On and on, in circles we go.

"On and on, in circles we go." so true. And these circles become generational.

I've no personal experience with Al-Anon, gold, but don't bail out on it yet. Give it a good two months, see if it evolves, or if you can glean ideas from it. Perhaps once all involved become more familiar with you and your strengths, you'll get more appropriate responses.

I thought this was Al-Anon but it isn't. It's called Family Recovery. I don't know that I need that as much as I need help feeling good about the firm boundaries we have set.

I need to know how to form and maintain a healthy relationship with him. He continues to spam us with mean messages. Should I block his number? Practical advice. I need more guidance than them just saying we are in a hard situation and we need to file a restraining order. (We can't file a restraining order on someone who is out of state, as per Law.)

Any group is only as good as the people in it and the group leader(s) for the evening. It's quite possible this group is not a good fit for you but don't give up on Al Anon. Are there other options even if you have to drive some distance? My dad was in AA and attended various meetings for quite a while, seeing some of the same people at one meeting or another. Eventually they connected the dots and formed their own group of 10 men who met weekly in each other's homes for many years. You want a more practical approach rather than the hand wringing because that's your nature and there are certainly others like you. The work is in finding them. Some people never get out of the hand wringing and make a life out of needing comfort. You're more action oriented.

ETA - Yes, you should block his number. You don't need that negative energy assaulting you. If he texted with something urgent, you aren't in a position to run to his aid even if you wanted to. Just remember, nothing you are doing or not doing is creating the situation he's in - he's in total control of that.

This post was edited by dlm2000 on Sat, Sep 21, 13 at 15:31

Look up Al-Anon in your phone book or online. You should have many meetings to choose from if you are in a metropolitan area. If you don't like one meeting go to another; they all have different flavors depending on the people involved and their level of recovery. I think you will find support and validation in the program.

A good Al-Anon meeting doesn't function as you described (but then you said it wasn't really Al-Anon).

I'm going to an Al Anon meeting at 6:00. This is a real Al Anon. Hopefully it's better.

I received a message from Derek's big bio brother, asking on behalf of his Father, if I would resume cell service if they paid for it.

I wrote him back stating my original intention was to maintain Derek's phone service until he started using the phone to text me vile messages and leave mean messages on my telephone. Then I made the decision not to pay for my own harassment. I told him I have saved them all, including the text where he told me to "Suck C--k B--ch. I told him that I'm certain Derek's father would understand.

I found all the local Al Anon meeting schedules and showed up at 6:00. It was an AA meeting. They invited me to stay so I did. It was eye opening and I left there with a phone number. Going to an Al Anon meeting tomorrow.

Gold,

Hope you find an Al-Anon meeting where you feel comfortable. It is suggested you attend at least 6 different meetings before deciding if it is for you or not. I agree that attending open AA meetings is also helpful to see the perspective of the alcoholic.

Jana

I went to a "New Comers" meeting this AM. I heard there is an Al Anon meeting specifically for parents dealing with adult children but the schedule doesn't tell me which meeting is that meeting. Will call the number I have and ask. That may be where I belong.

I'm going to give Al Anon a six meeting try. I leave the meetings feeling like I am basically a happy person who has healthy relationships in all other aspects of my life. I'm exploring whether I can have a relationship with my son. When I hear how Al Anon has helped each person, I feel judgmental. is that denial?

I have not married an Alcholic, I wasn't raised by Alcoholics and while the past seven weeks were hell, I have never allowed him to ruin my life. I have taken a tough love stance and when he is violent, we call the Sheriff AND follow through with their advice. It seems like every single person in this Al Anon meeting has struggled in many aspects of their life and stated over and over how Al Anon has helped transform them in all aspects of their lives - from their jobs to their other (dysfunctional) relationships. (Serious Co- Dependents is all I can see.)

I still left feeling depressed for all of them after being asked if one person could jump start her car from my car. (I told her I didn't know if you could jump start another car with, a Prius and I didn't feel comfortable doing that without knowing for sure it would be OK.)

It's complicated because I'm dealing with a personality disorder combined with drinking. Al Anon agreed both had to be dealt with at the same time but they only deal with alcohol.

He is out of State. I'm fine and busy cleaning up all the disaster in his wake.
Plus I am not Christian. The God stuff bothers me. I could show up late, after all that is over but that feels rude.

Is it normal to feel like this at the start? I don't feel better than them, just a little bit more sound.

Talk me down!

Perhaps al anon isn't for you ... can you do private counseling?

Even at that, finding the right counselor takes time.

You will find your way to what you need, it just may take some time and some exposure. Further, whether you know it or not now, you are actually gaining something by each of these meetings...

Golddust, you are strong, wise and loving. That much we already know. Unfortunately, that doesn't give you the magical ability to fix broken people, and unfortunately, Derek came to you already 'broken' to some degree. You did about the best that could be done -- of that, I am certain. I say "about the best", because none of us can do "absolutely the best" and we will all make a few mistakes.

But you did a really good job of parenting -- you know that deep in your heart. And I think that may be why the meetings you've gone to so far have felt like a letdown. Perhaps deep down you thought maybe there was a better answer? And that these folks, after years of experience and sharing best practices -- that these folks would have a 'magic bullet' for you? And now you're realizing that their very best solutions aren't any better than the ones you've already tried?... Probably from the beginning?

The realization that there's no magic bullet is a long and depressing process. But at the end of that process comes something akin to the old serenity prayer -- the wisdom to know the difference between that which you can change and that which you cannot. And then, finally, the grace to forgive yourself for not being able to change the stuff that cannot be changed by anyone but him. You can get there without the God part -- and I'm sure you will.

I'm keeping you in my thoughts --

goldie:

Long-time lurker here. Each meeting is different each time it meets. Try to find a meeting you are comfortable with and that seems helpful to you. There are no professionals; everyone is just sharing what works for them. As they say - "take what you can and leave the rest." You might be more comfortable in a meeting that has more women in it - or maybe not. As for the religion thing, unless it is very religion-oriented and it really bothers you, just substitute humanity or the good inherent in people or the power of the group or whatever. You are under no obligation to pray - you can just hold hands if you want and keep silent - probably no one will even notice and no one should judge you. A lot of latitude is given to how and what is shared and people are usually tolerant of members who seem to stray far afield or might even seem not to belong there. Please remember that in certain circumstances this might be the only safe place where people can talk about their problems. You are very proactive and confident, so this might not be for you - but I would give it a chance. A counselor, social worker or other professional might be more helpful as was suggested above.

This sounds kind of preachy, but it isn't meant that way. Just someone who has gone to some meetings and read a little bit about it. .

Sending hopeful, healing thoughts your way.

I have an adopted child with RAD - reactive attachment disorder. One thing I've learned is that love cannot heal all wounds. We can be perfect parents and it still won't fix the damage done. Perhaps the time Dee will spend with his Bio family may help some of his subconscious wounds.

That is exactly what I am hoping and Derek was diagnosed with that too.

Nobody knows how difficult it is to raise a child with RAD until you have done it. good luck with your child. My heart goes out to you.

Gold, I'm sorry that your family has to deal with this. I don't think you should be paying phone service for a 29 year old. He might WANT an iphone with all the bells and whistles, but he doesn't NEED one to survive. He can pay for his own service or get a cheap pay as you go phone.

I think you need to find the meeting with parents, spouses, caregivers, etc.

His phone was cut off days ago.

Ironically, Domestic Violence recommended we pay for his cell phone as a safety precaution. We would know where he is... Still, I couldn't reconcile the notion of paying for my own harassment, so I suspended the account.

Golddust you are such a very special person! I’m sending positive thoughts to you, your family, Dee and Dee’s biological family…it affects so many. Feel free to vent here as you all travel down the bumpy lane on the way to the paved road.

Golddust, I'm so very sorry to have read about the problems with your son.

I agree with chispa, I also don't think you and your husband should be paying for his phone. Or anything else at this point. Nor take any calls or have any contact with him whatsoever, regardless of your hurting heart.

However, what really has me concerned is the safety of you and your husband and any other family members who he might take his uncontrollable anger out on. I may have missed it in reading other responses, but do you at least have a security system at home? Any other security and safety measures that you're taking, even with him presently living in another state?

Please take good care. I know that we're all concerned about you, your husband and the whole situation so please keep us up-to-date.

Jenna

With Al anon, I've found that the more I focus on my similarities to those of others there, the more i get out of the meetings. Sure, differences exist. But it's the similarities that have us all there looking for support. I also definitely agree with 'take what you need and leave the rest.

Re the god thing...I'm with you on not needing/wanting a church defined god. However, I definitely can relate to a higher power....that's what I see around me each time I'm in my garden.

I encourage you to keep going, speaking and hanging around for 15 min after the meeting has ended, just speaking with others there.

((((Goldie)))) . . . please always remember that we care very much about you and your continued happiness and well being.

Today's meeting was for beginners. There were two long time Al Anon people there who told their stories. both have remained married to Alcoholic spouses for decades, even though both are still drinking. (What kind of a program makes presenters out of people who are now "happy" in spite of living with an active Alcoholic?)

We were told that these meetings are for our own healing, growth and co-dependency issues. We are going to work on ourselves... I don't want to work on myself. Except for the impossible situation with our son, I like the rest of my life. Lol.

The 7:30 parents night thirty five minutes away is something I am very interested in but night time driving on one of the most dangerous HWYs in our State during Rutting season for deers, combined with night time eye issues, is not a fun thought. Day time? No problem.

I am going to call 'Linda' tomorrow to see what meeting she was talking about. She didn't mention it was in another town.

Security system? No but we live rural anyway. Security systems are a joke where we live. New doors and windows will help. Many of our old windows didnt even lock. All but one closet window is good now as the Company forgot to order it but it is coming too. Awaiting delivery of our new front door. Should be next week. Our currant door, while a nice looking door, has thin panels that could be broken with most anything. A boot, bat, whatever. Our new door will be solid. (So excited about my new windows and doors!!)

Derek started work today and is attending AA, according to his brother. His bio brother said he would alert us if Derek left his Fathers house so we can obtain a restraining order.. We have taken every step possible toward our safety.

We have deadbolts on doors inside our home where most people don't. We have safe havens that will keep him away from us until help arrives even if he does get inside. This is not our first pony ride with him.

Maybe I should consult a Psychiatrist about how dangerous his behaviors were...

I hope that at least the police are aware of your situation, esp in a rural area. We have a security system which we rarely use. But in your situation, where it can be triggered by a break in where they will contact the police directly for you, I think I would want it and use it.

As far as the higher power stuff, I remember that we are all part and parcel with the universe. Every atom of every cell in our body is made up of cosmic dust. So we are all one with the ever large and mysterious universe and subject to the laws of nature.

This post was edited by AnnieDeighnaugh on Tue, Sep 24, 13 at 10:44

I think we will be just fine. He is 9 1/2 hours away with not enough resources to make it back here. He will settle down. I know him well.

I wasn't raised by alcoholics or people with mental illness(none of either in my family) and did not marry an alcoholic or a mentally ill person either, but I married into a family with the alcoholic and the mental illness gene and now have a son who is an alcoholic, a son who is schizophrenic, and a daughter who is normal. All were raised in the same loving environment by two parents who are still married to each other. The luck (or unluck) of the genetic lottery. All 5 of my husband's siblings' kids are normal. That being said, we play the hand we are dealt even though we would never choose it.

Anyway, I didn't think I had any issues when I first went to Al-Anon either, but I discovered that I too had become ill from being a family member of an alcoholic. Detachment with love is the hardest lesson I have ever had to learn. Al-Anon is a spiritual program, not a religious one and religion is not supposed to be discussed. A Higher Power is whatever you want it to be. Many people use the group or nature as their higher power.

DH and I have also been through the NAMI Family to Family Program which is for family members of a mentally ill person. It is also taught by family members of mentally ill people. I learned so much there and felt very connected to the others in the group. NAMI also offers support groups, so that might be another option for you. You can find them online at www.nami.org. Lots of people who are mentally ill also are addicts. It's called dual-diagnosis. Sorry this is so long, but I feel compelled to share what I have learned and maybe help others.

Jana

Thank you Jana. I just looked up NAMI, phoned the number and learned there is a local meeting Thursday. I feel ok dealing with an Alcoholic. It's the Personality Disorders I am more concerned about. I will attend.

I haven't been keeping up with GW forums lately and just came across your thread. I feel so sorry for what you are going through. You are so strong. Just an outburst of "I hate you mom"
coming from one of my daughters when they were teenagers, put me into a fit of tears. I just can't imagine the pain you are feeling. I am so impressed with your strength. Thinking of you..

Thanks, Judie. Derek has made me strong. Perhaps that was his gift to me. LOL.

Things have settled down tremendously. We haven't heard from him in about a week. We hope he is doing well. We hope to re establish a relationship with him in the future but that will depend on the work he must do to get himself healthy.

We know he will never ever live on our property again and we won't be helping him out financially.

That said, I'd love to know what he thinks of his biological Father. Apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree but it isn't time to communicate with him right now. To be a fly on the wall...