dlm my comment was not directed to you at all - was simply seconding Jen's statement. I've honestly not read all the comments on this thread (and remembering some tattoo threads here in the past).

I think I mentioned that they are not for me. Really, my point was that I have learned long ago not to worry what others think, and that applies to more than tattoos.

You were quite honest in your thoughts and that means more to me than whether or not you like tattoos. I don't feel you were being judgmental - that is my point, not whether or not you like tattoos, but how you look at others. Hope I am making sense!!

tina

Having one, not having one, liking them or not liking them is such a small part of who we are it would be a shame if it became an us versus them issue.

Exactly! Dlm, I like you. Have always enjoyed your contributions here and have always felt you come across as very kind, compassionate, and sensitive. I'm sorry you feel perhaps a bit "overly" sensitive right now; I know all too well how that goes myself, and it's not necessarily pleasant. In what you expressed upthread, you were direct, but I don't believe you intended to insult - you were just being honest, as you said. My comments about having "run out of steam" and just not caring what others think is really just me being honest too. Not too terribly long ago, it really did bother me when someone seemed to form a negative opinion of me because of something that I wear on my skin. I wrestled with how I felt about that for long enough that I finally got tired of even fighting it. Others are always going to have their own opinions, and I know that some people do judge the character of others based upon something that to me is as innocent as ink on the skin (not saying dlm does that, but I know people who do), and I realize it's not up to me to sway opinion one way or another. Besides, I think I now know as many people with tattoos than without ... in fact, I think I may even know more people with than without - so I certainly don't feel that being a tattooed woman makes me a unique or groundbreaking individual. I'm just one of many who views it as an expressive artform and appreciates it. I'm done explaining why to others, and I'm done trying to understand or sway differing beliefs. Life is damned short. It just doesn't matter.
:-)

I wasn't directing my comment at you. I haven't been around here for several years like you have and I'm still learning to be careful because it's so easy to unintentionally hurt someone's feelings.

Happy New Year to you tomorrow!

Thanks Tina & Jen - you both put my mind at ease and seem to understand what I was saying. Given that I'm actually teary reading your responses tells me that there's a lot more going on with me right now than this thread! Thought I was passed this hormonal stuff!

We all form opinions about others based on appearance and that's just the way it is. Hopefully our lives include all sorts of people different than us and we love and accept them the way they are and are grateful for them.
We have opinions about people who "don't wash their hair, wear dowdy clothes (don't they ever get a catalog?), have dirty fingernails or bad breath (hello, are they unaware or clueless?), acne ( don't they know about good nutrition?)
the list goes on. But they may equally find us shallow and equally clueless.
Sunday, dh and I were in Panerra having lunch and it was very crowded. We sat next to a 35-40 ish couple who were on a first date. I heard everything, however, the only thing I could think of, and I told dh, "I would never date a man who wore a polo shirt with a 6" polo emblem on the front". He understood.
But he may have been a very nice man.

No tats here. Never will. Unless, tomorrow when I get my pathology report they tell me I need radiation. Then, I'll have no choice. I wonder if I get to pick out a design.

Pesky, I love your line about "a body covered with scars from a life well lived". It really hit home for me. Thank you.

Ttodd, you are a marine?!

DeeDee, so funny you posted a picture of the luna moth. I had never even heard of them until we found one flying at our door a few nights ago. It was so big I thought it was a bat at first. They are pretty if you like moths but very large. I have to admit it freaked me out a bit.

I don't have a tatoo and have never had the desire for one, but my father had several. While in the Navy and on tour in Japan, he had a picture of my mother copied onto his right bicep in color. That was back in the late fifties when colored tatoos were less common. The tatoo was the spitting image of my Mom and both the artistry and picture were gorgeous.

lukk, I was just reading Lunas only live one week. Maybe I should consider a temporary (one week) tat?

So sweet about your df's tattoo of your mom!

paintergirl, I'll be sending positive thoughts to you tomorrow.

ohh that's weird too...cause the next morning my husband found it dead outside. I thought that maybe it got burned by the night light, but maybe it just died naturally.

Yeah, he adored my mother. :c)

thanks deedee!!!

No tats. A permanent reminder of a temporary feeling - can't get my dad's voice out of my head...

However, no judgments or negative feelings about friends who have them. Never occurred to me to care.

On the subject of tattoos, I have just never understood how they work. Since our skin cells are constantly turning over, indeed all of our cells are constantly dying and being replaced, how does the ink stay in cells that are rapidly turning over.
Just something that I've always wondered about.

The ink goes in at the deeper dermis, where the cells don't shed as rapidly as the cells in the epidermis. The ink goes down past the forth or fifth layer of skin. They DO hurt, and the pain is likened to a burn more than a puncture. I know that the worst part for me was days later when it felt like a bad sunburn.

I realize it's different strokes, but I hope that people don't make judgements if they run across someone with tats.

Oh, and Paintergirl...good luck. I often joke that my family will be able to identify my body by the scars. Not a day goes by that I'm not bleeding at some point! Tonight I got my knuckle nicked by one of the dogs teeth while we were playing tug, and yesterday I got scratched by one of the cats...tomorrow I'll probably drop a brick on my toe.

Yes, paintergirl, will be thinking of you today. I hope you get good news!!!

Bumble, I agree it is human nature to make assumptions based on someone's looks, but I really try hard (not that I always succeed!) NOT to do this. My thinking is rather like Stinky mentioned on another post. I don't look at someone "with dirty fingernails or bad breath" and wonder if they don't have a clue - I wonder about their circumstances. Especially in today's society (the homeless, the unemployed, etc.). Sometimes there is so much going on in a person's life that looks (and sadly even hygiene) is of low priority. Sometimes this is a symptom of certain mental illnesses. And of course there are some people that just don't care how they look. And even though I personally have a hard time understanding that (perhaps I'm vain), it's okay. It's their choice.

Not befriending the woman who has a mustache or the man with the polo emblem, well you may be hurting yourself. You miss alot of good people just by going on their appearance.

No. Paintergirl- heres hoping that you get good news today.

Me too Paintergirl! My mom goes today for the tattoo for radiation.

DD has many tattos, a beautiful half leg that's a work of art; and the saying

"L'amour est l'enfant de la liberte" with an accent aigu on the last e ( it doesn't show up here) just below her navel . She's 32 and very fit and slim. Oh yes, I forgot , she also has an emblem of some kind on her lower back. She does get looks, specially at the golf club where it's very traditional. DS has a tatoo on his bicep. DIL has a full back tree of life, something on both front of her feet.

All I have is my eyebrows permanently done and eyeliner; it hurt a lot to have those done so I can just imagine the tatoos. I always said I'd get one before I was 50, I'm turning 60 in february so I'm already late to the party.
I would consider something small on the inside of my wrist, the skin is so thin there, I wonder if it's doable?

I never said I wouldn't befriend them Tina, just that I don't relate to them. None of us bond with every person we meet.

The list above was rhetorical, I have dirty fingernails, bad breath and unwashed hair sometimes! That's the whole point.

Mitch, all 3 of my kids have an inner wrist tat. Apparently those hurt more than others, I've heard that top of the foot is also more painful than others.

paintergirl, good luck to you today.

I guess if I have to take offense in a tattoo conversation, it would be at the comparison (however tenuous) of someone with tattoos and a physically "dirty" person. Since the idea of someone with unwashed hair, acne, bad breath, dowdy clothing (etc.) came up in the same thread as tattoos, I have to believe that at least on some level, an equation is being drawn. And I object. I'm a professional in business clothing most days. I'm washed and perfumed and professionally coiffed and manicured and I think I present myself pretty darn well. I also decorate my "deeper dermis" (thanks for the explanation, Pesky!) with designs that hold special personal meaning. There's nothing "dirty" about it. It's my own artistic expression, nothing more.

Pesky's also right about the pain. It's not a puncture that one feels, but an almost overwhelming sensation of having a sunburned area repeatedly scratched - deeply - with a needle. For those of us who are partial to the entire process, however, there is just something about the pain that is cathartic. It's difficult to explain, but if you know what I mean, you know what I mean.

I'm not a fan of the "tat's" thing either.
I'd never get one.

Some do look pretty cool, but as some mentioned here, may look like hell later in life. Also, when one retires or whatever, some may look really inappropriate/ridiculous.

I think I mentioned here some time ago that I kinda like the "Warrior"-style armband kinda look. Sorta like barbed-wire around the arm/bicep thing.
If I had pipes like some NFL linemen, I'd be more tempted LOL!
(DW would shoot me however....;-))

Although.....the KISS, AC/DC, or Hairball logos would be stud! As a nod to my farming past....the old "IH" emblem maybe!!!!

Faron

Sorry - forgot to mention that I too hope all goes very well for you today, Paintergirl!

I don't have tats, and don't judge those who do.

I am surprised that acne is being equated with bad personal hygiene habits. Acne is a disease and studies have shown that it doesn't have anything to do with diet or with personal hygiene beyond perhaps a very mild case brought on by heat and sweat. In fact, too much or too rigorous scrubbing can make acne worse.

To get good treatment for severe acne requires the means to access medical care at the subspecialty level, as primary care medical providers won't treat with meds like Accutane.

I don't mean to scold or put anyone on the defensive here. But as someone who suffered miserably from severe acne, and who will always have the scars, I just wanted to set the facts straight. I once read something a dermatologist said on why he went into the field. "When you treat the skin, you treat the heart."

Paintergirl, praying your path report brings good news.

Paintergirl,
If you do indeed end up getting a tattoo for radiation purposes, then you will indeed have a tattoo of a true Warrior.

Good luck!
Jean

I was referring to another post Bumble, where you said you couldn't be friends with a woman with a mustache (or something to that effect, I did not look up the old thread). Then your words on this post. Sorry if I interpreted them wrong, but they hit a nerve, as I think they may have with others.

tina

You're absolutely right Barb5! At 49, I'm still dealing with periodic outbreaks. Right now my chin is a mess, due to some work-related stress I'm dealing with. For years before menopause set in, it was my hormones that routinely caused flare-ups. I understand and relate to your feelings about having acne scars. I have them too, and they are not a welcome reminder, although I can't bring myself to go through a procedure to erase them (if that's even truly possible).

The acne comment bothered me too, but I was already rolling my eyes at someone else's foolish comment on another thread. BB, I said it before and I'll say it again ... I'd hate to be on your critical radar.

I certainly never meant to imply anything judgmental in my post or to hurt anyone's feelings.
For most of my youth, I went to the same schools with the same people until high school graduation and in fifth grade, for some reason, I was singled out and bullied. Probably because other kids realized they could easily make me cry, I had the first braces, I was tall, and had very white skin and was a terrible athlete. Always picked last. They made fun of my arm hair. Sigh.

All incredibly insignificant elements as adults, but it made a profound impact on my life. My mother bought me nice clothes- the year I wore knee socks with a skirt to sixth grade and all the girls laughed at me and made fun because I wasn't wearing Hose. I went home crying, again.

So, the whole point is that we are always being judged by people over things we think shouldn't ever matter, tattoos, for instance, but we can't change the way they think. We can only change our response and our attitudes and accept ourselves for who we are and not worry about them at all.

I am sorry you had acne Barb. I had adult acne in my twenties and thirties but never took Accutane. It certainly made me withdrawn and often embarrassed and was very painful.
But I still think a lot of acne can be controlled a great deal through diet, not all acne of course, but some of it.
It took me ten years to discover aspartame in any form gave me cysts. I still miss diet coke- but it rots the bones....

I'll be praying for you paintergirl

Let's clarify this right now.

Here is a link that might be useful: Acne causes ... Mayo Clinic

Why are some people so judgmental, anyway? (not talking about any GW's) When I had an illness a while back some people would look at me in such a snarky way, like they knew anything about it. It still bothers me. Same thing as people looking at my daughter's tattoos, or at a very overweight family member, anything they might not like.

I'm sorry Bumble. I probably sounded snarky in response to your remarks. It didn't sit right with me, but after hearing your childhood experiences, I can see how you might see things differently than I do. Guess I didn't practice what I preach towards you.

I've mentioned my lymphedema before, and because I was born with a gene that turned on the switch around age 30 that changed my life, I know what it's like to be the object of stares & judgement. You've seen the picture I posted that was taken in my late 20's...I was very attractive then. A few years later I developed the disfiguring and limiting condition that totally changed how my body looked. I am stared at and judged everywhere I go so I guess it really hits home to me when judgements are made about little things.

I once told a doctor that given the choice between winning the lottery or not having lymphedema, it'd be no choice. You either learn to grow a thick skin or you act the victim. Does it hurt when people laugh and stare at me? Yes it does, but I don't let them get to me. I realize they've got their own weaknesses and liabilities too. And I honestly tend to have a feeling of superiority because I'm not so small minded as to judge or intentionally cause hurt even tho I AM hurt by their actions.

I'm certainly not comparing anyone here to the cretins I speak of! Just venting my frustration. In a perfect world there would be no judgments based on any physical attributes.

Ttodd, I'm sorry that I am going to hijack your thread for a minute....but I want to thank everyone who wished me well today. I will, for now, hold my record of no tattoos. No radiation needed!
I wouldn't wish cancer on my enemies.
OK, back to the regularly scheduled conversation.

Wonderful news!!!

So happy for you paintergirl!

None here (@ age 48). My 14 yr old seems fascinated by them. I just keep telling her that is a decision to be made when she is self sufficient and an adult.

No judging here. My bestie has a couple.

Good for you, Paintergirl!

Technically part of what happens to tattoos is that the ink is considered a foreign body of sorts and is slowly "digested" by polymorphonucleosites and Macrophages, which are part of our immune system on the cellular level. Some inks are more resistant to fading and blurring than others.

I don't have any but if I were 20 years younger and felt like spending the money I would have at least a half-sleeve, all or nothing. One also has to be willing to undergo tattoo maintenance to keep them looking good.

On the other hand having pristine skin and trying to maintain a prison pallor is not so bad either.

Palimpsest-

LOL & snorting here!!

Your deadpan "Prison Pallor" zinger is tooo funny!
Being of Norwegian/Uffda descent, I'm mainly in that category!!!

Faron

No tattoos here and no desire.

Doing the happy dance for you paintergirl!

Bumblebeez - I am still curious, as I feel that harsh treatment as a teen would make one MORE sympathetic to those whose appearance could be viewed as substandard.

I wear "dowdy clothes" and really don't care what others think. I will sleep well tonight even if someone out there would not care to be my friend.

But I DO worry about the judgmental attitudes my teenage sons may face. On has acne (vegetables don't make it go away) and a giant abdominal scar that is awkward at the pool (I have not yet seen a catalog that will make THAT go away).

No, no tattoos. I've seen some cool ones but I can't even decide on fabric.

Maureen, I have tremendous sympathy, empathy, an understanding for those who are not of the beautiful set. I don't know exactly why I am coming across as someone who dislikes the non beautiful!

One of the finest and most popular people I have ever known, a very good friend at one point in my life, had the worst skin I have ever seen. The worst. But he is a great guy and his tremendous personality overcame any physical defects. He had no trouble getting dates, he is just a wonderful, funny, caring, outgoing person.

Of course not all acne is related to diet but I know my skin cleared up when I avoided certain foods and I do most certainly believe that what you eat will show up in the way you look.
Most people want to eat all the processed food and white flour, bad fats, bgh dairy, insecticidal laced vegetables they want and not think it will effect how they feel and look. Personally, I'm trying to follow a modified paleo diet. Only with some success! I am craving scallion pancakes....

So, as someone whose been through the trenches of mean girls (Never Been Kissed, seen that?) I have no sympathy at all for someone who doesn't try and better themselves if they would indeed like to be more than what they are.
Not so the cool people will accept them but so they can themselves be empowered. It's a place of influence.
Everyone needs to come to a place where they are secure in their choices and why they make them.

If you are happy with the clothes you wear, I'm happy too! But if you are choosing dowdy clothes because you have a bad body image or don't want to call attention to yourself or think it's shallow to care about clothes, then I would encourage you to make a change for something better.

One person I admire is Joni Erickson Tada. She is a quadriplegic and has been since a swimming accident as a teenager. She is so personable and influential to so many who are needy, yet, she always is gracious and, I might add, perhaps trivially, well groomed. She hasn't chosen to give up in that area although she certainly could.

None for me. No desire there. My only negative thought re. tats is seeing a large expanse of ink on smooth, young skin. My reaction is one of sadness. A butterfly here, a little something(nice) there....no problem. I just feel sad seeing a beautiful young back, whole arm, chest, etc, permanently marred ( to MY eye) with ink. On a mature adult, I may not find it attractive but doesn't bother me a bit.
If my daughter or grands were tempted, I'd find a very alluring incentive to make them wait until turning 30.
Hip hip hurray PGirl! Big Whew for you!

yes paintergirl, that's amazing news, not needing the treatment, so happy for you ! I just found out the same news about a friend of mine yesterday !

How timely a question! YES! In fact, I DO have a tattoo and it's brand new! It's Winnie the Pooh, flying away with a big blue balloon carrying him up up and away. My son gave it to me. Oh, he's 5 years old. And it's a temporary tattoo, but I love love love it. A temporary reminder of a permanent feeling, Work In Progress, ;0) LOL!

Paintergirl - YAAAAYYYYY! for you! Responses and situations such as yours are far more important than letting someone's comment get under my skin (not on this thread).

Yes I was in the Marines - that's how I met my husband. He was my Commanding Officers little brother!

I was the only one in the family that had tatoo's. My mother who is deathly afraid of needles would never consider a tatoo. Then one day a few yrs ago my Dad decided to get a fishing tatoo. Then for some reason my mom decided to get one and she hasn't stopped. She has a massive crazy tatoo. Totally not for me but she loves it so bravo for her!

Well, ttodd, thank you both for serving! And your bro-in-law, too.
My nephew is a marine. Went to Afghanistan, Iraq, Jhibuti and many other places. He is now a NJ state policeman. And, yes, he has tats!

I have a few (ankle, foot, upper back) and the majority of my friends have sleeves or very prominent tatoos. I think it's regional in how prevalent they are. I live near Austin where tatoos are considered the norm but when I visit my sister in NJ people look at me like I have poo in my hair.

My tatoo artist and I are designing an epic tatoo that will probably take up my entire back. It is a take on Rubens "The Last Judgement" with a demon carrying off a rubenesque woman. This will be a gift to myself when I finally reach my goal weight - 50 more pounds to go!