Last option.

edited to clarify...I think workers in this country are being shafted by the "system" - more and more $$ for the top, less and less for the lower levels, yet workers still want to play "fair" and view ethical as something that really seldom benefits themselves. That's my cynical analysis.

I believe that she should look out for her and the worst that will happen to the non-dream job company is that they will need to do another hire. Would it be more ethical if she worked for them for a longer period of time (a year or two) and THEN took her dream job (because she is still going to be looking for it)? I don't think so. And because the company is kind of jerking her around..."We might hire you unless we find someone better," I'd have not one whit of guilt about taking it and quitting when the better job comes along...this one or the next one.

Some people will say that having a short employment history at a company will be a red flag for other future hirers, but I'd take my chances, especially if her dream job pans out and she stays there a reasonable amount of time before moving on again.

This post was edited by olychick on Mon, Aug 5, 13 at 21:28

Job hopping is pretty common. I don't know that if she took the iffy job and pursued the good one, and quit if an offer came in that it would look bad for her.

Today it seems an ace in the hand is better than one in the hole-so she should probably take the iffy job and continue to look. At a minimum she'd be paying into unemployment and getting an income while waiting.

Personally in this job market, I would accept the job that was a definite.
If the dream job materializes, then she can go there. Maybe not the ideal answer, but should she stay in a mediocre job because it was offered first?
With so many people applying for jobs, the first company will find someone quickly.

Just what I thought !! I sent her the cut and pasted comments you all made ! I think that it is a hard world and that the employer especially was not thinking of her feelings at all as he knew the headhunter would tell her...I personally would tell him to go stick it...but she is only 30 and this is hard for her. has had a fantastic job for 3 yrs and was in the top 10 sales for them for all 3 yrs...left for a better offer from some folks that had pursued her for months and that a best friend had moved over to also. Sigh...it was a mistake from day one...she put up with it for 4 months...they fired her so she is going with "last hired first fired " on her resume. Which is true as their sales are all low now and they are blaming the staff and not the product. Her bestie is likely to lose her job and she is expecting #2 and she and her DH just put down money on a house !! It is so tough out there.

Thank you ...thank you....I knew I could count on my GW friends ! c

It's a tricky issue, and one whose answer may rely on answers to questions that you didn't mention. Here are the things I wonder after reading your message:

1. How fast is the typical resume-interview-offer process in your daughter's industry and at the sizes of the companies she's looking at? My first job out of college was with a very large company that took 3 months between resume and offer, and there was another month after that before the start date.

2. How relationship-driven is the dream job company? And how established is the friend at the company? Some places, a friend-submitted resume just gets added to the pile, no special consideration. Others, it makes a big difference if the friend is well-regarded.

3. Does your daughter have an assertive personality for this sort of situation? Is she the sort of person who would be comfortable with asking for a week before accepting the offer? Could she handle the conversations she'd have to have at the mediocre job if she accepted their offer and then wanted to quit?

One other thing--if she gets an offer at the mediocre place and doesn't have a lot of time to hear back from the dream job place, I would strongly recommend that she carefully review all of her offer paperwork before she accepts the job. I know of one person whose job offer included a 3-year noncompete within a set radius of her new company's offices. If your daughter thinks she has a good shot at the dream job, she wouldn't want to lock herself into the mediocre one.

Sovra, thank you for posting those concerns. The resume/interview/offer for her previous job 3 yrs ago was about 2 weeks at most as I remember. The most recent job that lasted 4 months was really quick as they had been pursuing her for months and months. Once she said OK I will officially interview it was less than a week. So typically it is 2 weeks or so. She is in IT and sells the equipment as well as software. Has done both.

Can't answer #2 for sure but .......the woman is actually the friend of a very very good friend of DD's. In the city that DD lives in it is a LOT of who you know and a lot of networking...Good Ole Girl is a big deal in her city.

#3 would be the sticking point...nope she is uncomfortable with the idea....she is way to "nice" LOL...the conversation at the new job if she wanted to leave in a very short time would be discomfiting for her...but that said she has a spine of iron when she really wants something so you just never know.

Didn't know about that last noncompete so will definitely make a point of telling her that. She will know more hopefully tomorrow before she goes to see Wed Guy. The "dream " company is growing like crazy and has amazing reviews about their business everywhere you look and employee satisfaction is huge. They are very rapidly hiring to meet the demand for their software...so we shall see. It is right up her alley....fingers XX..thank you for your well thought out points . c

I have been on both sides of this fence,, the hiring manager communicating to a headhunter and as the interviewee who has a number of possibilities. A few scattered thoughts..

1. Please encourage your daughter to not take any feedback from her interview personally. It is absolutely expected that the interviewer provide feedback and that generally includes concerns, big or small. I'd have expected a good headhunter to push a little to get more info on what he meant by "polished". Did she stumble on a question due to nerves? Is she weak in an area they expect expertise? Is she more familiar or friendly than their other staff? It's hard to say.. but given that she may accept a job with them, I'd consider it *constructive* rather than hurtful.

2. In this market, you can't consider any job in the bag until you've signed a contract-- and even then, it very well could be a short duration (I too experienced the last in, first out disappointment).

3. IF she is given an offer, she should absolutely request time to consider it.. but know that some companies will take the request as disinterest. I would simply say that she has other offers pending and would like a day or two to consider. A week is likely much too long.

4. If she is totally pumped with the new, growing company, then I encourage her to proactively approach them. I have interviewed and expect an offer in the next week-- but I am really impressed with your company and would love the opportunity to join your team. Can we schedule a time to talk about your how I could fit into your organization sometime this week?

5. She can likely buy a little time by being conveniently unavailable when the call/email comes in.. but at most, this will buy a day.

This is a tough market-- I have NEVER had a hard time finding a job. 10 yr ago, when I sent out 5 resumes, I'd receive 4 call backs within 24 hr. Now I send 10 resumes and may receive 1 return call. This doesn't mean she shouldnt be selective-- but before taking any chances, she should consider how much long she is willing and able to look for the perfect job. When I was first laid off, I was told that at my level, I should expect at least a month of job search for every 10K in salary.

Just a few things to consider.. I wish your daughter great success!!

Chiming in here to say: NEVER accept an offer then renege or bail out for something better immediately afterward! That is considered the worst possible employee sin. I know, I know the 'system' is cold/unfair/unkind. However, being a person of integrity is in the end the absolutely right and best way to proceed. That's the meta...the bottom line practical is that the world can be a small place and believe me, any manager or headhunter to whom this is done will not forget and will definitely blackball the person who behaves in that fashion.

Practical issue #2-if she is already coming in with one 3-year position and then leaving another one after So if your daughter takes the job, presuming it's offered, then ditches it if she gets a better offer she is doing herself a huge disservice.

What I do recommend is to play this as what it is: a business negotiation. To start, if she is offered the position she interviewed for she shouldn't accept immediately. You should never do that even if it is your dream job. She needs to request the formal (written) offer first which should take a couple of days at least. There will be a deadline on the formal, and if it's too quick she can and should ask for a brief extension if she needs it. No need to say anything about another offer but rest assured the phrasing 'this is a great opportunity and I need to review all the information before making a decision' will not be taken as an insult.

And then if the job she really wants seems to be a possibility, she should contact her recruiter or the company contact and let them know: I am now in a situation in which I need to decide by DATE (and date should be a couple of days prior to deadline for company 1) so is it possible to get a decision by then? This tells dream company that the candidate is in demand, that she has another offer and if they want her they better make it happen. And I guarantee if she is good and dream company does want her....they will. If it doesn't come through she can accept back up offer and then STAY FOR AT LEAST A YEAR. Yes, she needs to get something solid timewise on the resume. Say what you will, a 4-month job is not a plus and another OK, off my career counseling soapbox. As always, worth what you paid for the advice :). And good luck to your daughter, job hunting is the most frustrating and demoralizing process in the world!

Ann

I REALLY appreciate the responses. Very well thought out and indeed the fear of reprisal from her recruiter is what DD said this AM. She has a lot of integrity and she wouldn't be able to start and then quit...just not part of her makeup. So that is out.

She isn't hiding the fact that she was fired. It is true that the 4 month job was a disaster. The company is struggling and she didn't realize that as she was started at 90k + commission...her ballpark salary in the 3 yr job also. At that rate she was raring to go with this company. She was led to believe one thing and also relied strongly on her gf that has been with the company over a year. So it was a lot of misunderstanding. She was definitely let go. As to who's fault..well the person that was responsible for assisting her wasn't doing their job and when DD tried to get her direct boss to help her with that DD was let go...it was a nightmare of misunderstanding and misleading and a lot of regret on DD's part that she left her 3 yr job...which she has been asked to come back to but she has decided that she really does want to try a new place ...she can go back but would like to go forward :)

It has been an eye opening experience to read the suggestions and comments here. I am humbled by the time you all took to respond so quickly and thoroughly . Thank you. I will post back as to what happens. I have forwarded all comments to DD. The ones the Ann made are exactly what DD said to me this AM ....I am glad that she has such solid integrity . I understand where each of you is coming from and there is a part of me that agrees with part of what each of you has said and I can see how it would play out in several ways. THANK YOU ! C

I would second all suggestions to be upfront with the second more exciting company on the timelines. I have been on both a hiring manager shoes and as a job candidate in similar situations. If there is a real position and the hiring manager feels that you may the a great fit based on phone interviews, he or she will expedite rest of the process to get to a verbal offer fast. For the other company, they may take a bit of time to put together a written offer as well. Nothing is committed until you sign on the dotted line. I would let them know that you considering other offers as well so that they make a competitive offer.

Also . . .not sure if mentioned here, but if she bails, it will reflect poorly on the recruiter, and then she will have burned that bridge!

DH was in a similar situation during the last job hunt and was loyal instead of leaving. Had he gone with the better job, that would have been the end of the relationship with the recruiters . . .and guess what? Now DH is looking for a job again, and TG he is still on great terms with the recruiters, because they are the top company here.

BEST of luck to your DD. It is tough out there! (Though I think a wee bit easier these days!)

I have nothing to add since you have already been given a bunch of sound advice. No matter what, DD needs to be true to herself and it sounds like she is.

Sending her the best of luck!

Here is the letter that she just received from the " dream job" contact that she has...all I can say is WOW...DD is going to let the recruiters she is dealing with handle all requests for delay in decision making so that she can pursue this place...I have deleted the name of the company .

." As for your resume, I personally think it looks great! You have sales experience and more importantly, you have sales experience in Technology. Also, reading that you have sold into healthcare and financial services accounts is a huge plus because thus are 2 areas that "we" are beginning to focus more attention on in terms of trying to figure out how to best approach those types of opportunities.

As for what steps to take next, I am going to personally refer you through our internal system because "we" are a huge proponent of recruiting from within, through employees referrals and lastly, through their website and outside recruiters. I will send you a copy of what I submitted and will also go talk to our recruiters personally."