The best way to get ahead is to not focus on careers, but attributes and skills that will help in life and in your job.

1. Delayed gratification. Too many kids today scream for the toy at the checkout stand and get it. And their whole life is like that. I'm not saying make them into practicing ascetics, but it never hurts to have a goal that you are working towards.

2. Curiosity about your surroundings. That's different than "education" as a goal or a means to an end. A curious person has a motivation to learn that isn't external. From how to take apart an alarm clock to how to distinguish which night bird is making that call. Don't quash "stupid" questions. Encourage them. Questioning your surroundings leads to all types of learning situations.

3. Respect, but not reverence, for authority and position. It's not old fashioned to call people sir and ma'am. Too many employees show up on their first day, call the boss by his first name and wonder why their name isn't on the supervisor's door a month later. (Yeah, that goes back to delayed gratification a bit, but even if you're planning on taking your bosses job by outworking him, it pays to be respectful to him while you are doing it.)

4. The ability to change. Change is the only constant in life. People who are rigid in their thinking or don't have the ability to think outside the box won't survive the next technological breakthrough that makes their jobs obsolete. How can you take your assets and morph them into doing something else with what you know?

5. The ability to manage money. Already touched on above. But, all kids should get an allowance and should be forced to save half of that and to contribute some of it to those less fortunate before they use what's left for their own enjoyment. There's nothing wrong with them buying the latest $500 widget from their money if they save long enough to do that. In fact, it might just teach them that the $300 widget might be a better buy when their $500 model is superseded by the bright and shiny new $700 widget model.

If you combine those all together, a person will be able to navigate the rough waters of modern life. It's not about a degree in a specific field, or a career at a specific company. That's old school thinking, and this is not a Mad Men world anymore where loyalty and hard work in one field or one company will reward you with them taking care of you in your old age. It's DIY world, with everyone having to take responsibility for their own career paths and happiness within that. And, if "making money" becomes an important enough goal for them to focus on, all of these things will help with that. No entrepreneur ever was successful without the ability to manage money and delayed gratification keeping them focused on that goal.

As a university faculty member, I could write another dissertation on this!

Right now careers that look strong are anything health care related and economics. Like tish said, things could change dramatically by the time your kids are grown, and there may be careers that don't even exist yet.

Even perpetually "hot" careers like IT and engineering have their downsides and if you actually talk to people in those fields, not everything is rosy either.

What WILL get graduates hired and set them apart is that employers are always in need of students with strong communication skills and who don't need constant supervision. If you can write well, particularly what is required technically in your field, and you can present (teach, sell, etc.) you will never be out of work regardless of what is your field.

Cost of education is also something to consider. A pharmacy degree is wonderful, but back when I was in school (I graduated 1990 with B.S.) it was a 5-year B.S. Now it is 4 year postgraduate PharmD. Physical and occupational therapy were B.S., then PT and OT when to M.S. and now physical therapy is a 3-year DPT which costs on average $30K per year at most schools and that is just for tuition. I know this because 5 of my students were accepted to PT schools this year. OT is still a masters program.

Getting accepted into a program like PT takes about a 3.5 GPA and then excellent grades in two semesters chemistry, physics, anatomy, physiology, biology, zoology, statistics, and several psychology and sociology courses. Not everyone has the aptitude or interest for that much math and science. Same thing with engineering. Not too many people can manage physics with calculus!

I work in education, and that is certainly not a way to get wealthy, although Deans and upper administrators at very large universities can do quite well financially. OTOH, I have a true love of learning and have no regrets on pursuing my doctorate. Those were some of the best years of my life, and I made so many wonderful friends and colleagues.

Wholeheartedly agree with the Dalai Lama!

Haven't read everything but I agree to pay attention to and nurture their interests. Pursuit of money is not a value I would want to instill, but it is important to educate them on being resourceful and on financial awareness so they can survive.

I think the pursuit of big money can be a very bad way to make a career choice - one that could leave you miserable. And deciding what you're going to be as a kid - how often does that work out? I can't tell you how many people I know who may have made a career choice in high school or college only to later find out they didn't want to do that after all. People need to get exposed to a lot of things and find their passion and then pursue it. When you are passionate about what you do, it's not like work. As a result you go far above and beyond what's required in a job, you get noticed, and you advance.

I disagree with the idea that you do better if you start out ahead. I came from "nothing" and have done very well. I was highly motivated to make a better life for myself than my parents had. Some of those that start out ahead have more of an entitlement attitude and not so much of the work ethic.

We hire a lot of young people - what kind of degree they have isn't all that important. Those who communicate well, are quick studies, have a positive attitude and initiative, and are willing to work hard quickly advance. Unfortunately there aren't all that many who fit that description. We have a very hard time finding qualified people to hire. Too many expect to be spoon fed and coddled - perhaps they had the helicopter parents.

I work in healthcare IT - a very hot industry that I happened to fall into before it became so. Could fizzle out by the time your kids are ready for a job.

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This post was edited by gibby3000 on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 14:50

So sorry to learn about your recent challenges. Unless your children are very young, they are likely highly attuned to what is happening within the household. This event may inform their future plans.

IMO, there is another important aspect to job/career security.

The target employer: MegaCorp vs Small Company?
While a small company often provides the opportunity to 'make a difference' and enjoy entrepreneurial freedom, most often the total rewards package is significantly less than offered by MegaCorp.

MegaCorp generally guarantees layers of bureaucracy and process, with much better financial rewards. Yes, re-organizations can occur frequently, but if one is attuned to the business, the opportunity for lateral transfer to another department or division without loss of retirement vesting or health insurance is significant. IF the worst happens, MegaCorp typically provides generous severance packages.

Obviously, the value of competitive compensation, bonus opportunities, and stock option awards is a means to create wealth. However, also important is how much of the reward is kept, I.e., not taxed.

Employee benefits are generally not taxed, or in the case of retirement benefits are taxed at a time when income levels are significantly reduced. One should not ignore the financial security provided by company paid/provided health and life insurance and STD and LTD plans. Many MegaCorps continue to provide matching 401(k) plans PLUS pensions. and contribute toward retiree health insurance premiums.

OTOH, many GWers would argue that business owners have the greatest opportunity to create wealth.

~bgj

Great post above by LiveWireOak. I think advice on specific careers is hard as the economy and job opportunities change so fast. Those who were in college in the 80's early 90s were all surprised by the number of career opportunities that the internet revolution created. Someone I knew who was really into music more than anything else ended up with a fabulous career as a music category manager for Amazon.

The point is to get the work ethic internalized. A kid who does a great job in a school assignment and can say they did their best is more likely to succeed with similar attitude in any profession they choose. They should want to do a great job for personal satisfaction - not necessarily for kudos from the teacher or the boss.They should want to try and try again till they succeed and not give up too easily or look for an easy/ clever way out. Resilience is a learned skill. Persistance is just a habit. This will always get noticed and rewarded. What ever the job, you have to work hard to be successful and it is easier to work hard if (a) you really like what you are doing at a experience level such as working with people, working with numbers, managing projects, working outdoors etc., and (b) having a good work ethic.

The point about delayed gratification cannot be over emphasized. The famous marshmallow experiement done in stanford showed this as the single biggest predictor of future success.

Be Nice. At end of the day, we are a social race and given a choice, someone who is considered nice will always have an advantage over other qualifications.

Money smarts - I think this is a major missing piece in education. I really like the Warren Buffett series on Amazon for kids. Kids often do not have perspective of what things cost. Taxes and social security often shock kids when they see their first paycheck. 401K contributions seem like a waste of money.

Core skills - What ever the job, I believe that really good writing and speaking skills is important. Even the most successful engineers and doctors stand out when they are also good communicators. So any opportunity to improve communication skills like debates, writing contests, toastmasters is well work the investment. This can be a learned skill. Numbers --> Even a marketing major will need to work with numbers for budgets, statistical analysis etc. This is a non-negotiable skill in today's information economy.

Independence --> What ever your talent, career, or job, everyone needs to learn that the most helpful hand is at the end of their own arm. Normal life skills of being able to take care of yourself, cook, clean, do laundry, be responsible for your things will make it much easier. As a parent, I try not prop up my kid in these areas. So chores and responsibility is a good thing. This is just something that you have to do - not a special job that deserves special money :)

I'm going to toss in something that may seem a bit off track as we're talking about raising children and choosing careers and generational wealth, but it's actually a really big deal: getting and staying married.

It's simple math, really. You harness the earning power of two, or boost the earning power of one while the other becomes the main family manager. One can build a business while the other works to pay the bills. There's no duplication of effort or capacity. The assets stay together and grow. Family businesses can stay in the family.

GWlolo, that is a good point about data. When I would teach the research methods course, some students would say "this is not relevant to my life", to which I would respond there is NO profession where you are not going to have to collect/manage/interpret some kind of data and write reports. So many professions have to report on outcomes.

I supported my family and provided the benefits while my dh was trying to find his way in business for so many years. During those years things were very lean and we were raising our girls. They are adults now and have a strong work ethic and character. They can stretch a dime like you wouldn't believe.

By the time my dh finally found his way and I was able to relax and even quit work we had our boys. I worry that they will grow up to be adults unlike my girls.

Sometimes I wonder if we are better off with less.

Gibby, I never said coming from nothing precludes success. I said generally that "great financial success" is had by those who come from generational wealth families. To me making 300k a year is not great financial success. I remember a study of tax returns of 2006 from economists from berkeley that found: The top 10% in America earn an average of 3.9 million a year. This was only 133,000 returns or something like that. Then the top 1% was only 40,000 or maybe 45,000(admit memory is hazy on this number) returns. That group had a starting annual income of 11 million,but an average income of 31 million. In my opinion, (and I am sure I can find statistics to support it if I looked) most people in the top 10% are coming from families already within the top 10%. Of course there are exceptions such as athletes, super star entertainers and the self made entrepreneur. That is not the norm. Most on this forum I imagine live below that 10%.

I then pointed out that one could live comfortably and securely with far less than "great financial success". I still think it is naive to believe the ability to move up in classes is easy in America. It is easier to move from a middle class background to an upper middle class status or perhaps even lower upper class. However I don't think it is as easy to land the CEO position of a fortune 500 without starting ahead of the curve.

And I agree with everyone else that it is much more important to focus on personal integrity, strength of character, and general education than to try to groom a kid for a lucrative career. It is also why I stressed alternative education.I'd much rather my kid be happy and living his/her chosen life style than miserable and over stressed in a lucrative career that doesn't fit him or her. I hope I made that clear from earlier posts.

iheart, don't know if this is really relevant to your comments, but I've read somewhere that the bulk of those 10% incomes were from selling off businesses or from an inheritance or some other windfall -- iow, the numbers are a one-off.

I agree with building character and the rest will follow. My DH graduated from college with an Art Degree in Schulpture.

When we adopted our first child, we both quit our jobs and started a business in our laundry room with home made equipment. We became metal casters and founded our business on the idea that we could employ people who were generally low skilled, train them well, pay them well and they will stay forever.

Our business motto was simple. 'Do what you say you will do, no matter what.' We never advertised, since it is useless in this industry. We depended on word of mouth. Our customers must trust us with large quantities of precious metals so trust is essential in this industry. We meet deadlines and provide high quality work. At trade shows, other people notice the quality of our castings and ask who does their work.

Thirty years later, our plan worked out well for us. Our newest employee has worked with us for 17 years. Others have been with us 28 years. Unlike Walmart, we provide Health Insurance, 401K matching, vacation and sick leave. Two of our employees are on salary. We compete with over seas markets in manufacturing, one of the hardest industries to compete in.

Not many people would think an Art Degree is practical, but hey!

awm- Point taken. I think I remember something about that now. The numbers always stood out in my mind, but perhaps I need to drive that number downward. I apologize for the misleading statistic. I still think the larger point stands... It's difficult to land a job like Jamie Dimon making 23 million a year without a wealthy family that provided access to certain schools and a network of business/banking contacts. Secondly does anyone really believe that a 15 year old like Andrew Zucker would have been on an advisory board of a start up company if not for his father Jeff Zucker? If he had stayed on the board do we not really think that gives the kid an advantage when he is 24 and competing for jobs? The average American kid does not have the same access to experiences, internships etc. The students who attend Trinity, Horace Mann, Andover, and other similar prep schools have a very real advantage over a lower middle class kid in the Midwest. Just as the kid who attends the local collegiate or country day school usually has an advantage over a kid from a school with fewer resources. I firmly believe where we start is a significantly weighted influencing factor on where we end.

Sorry this has nothing to do with OP question. Other than my qualifying comment that i would be less concerned with "great financial success" as I think that is usually generational. Instead, I think we should foster a child's natural skill set and keep a wider view of what it means to have a good job. I was merely trying to point out that to be comfortable in today's economy, it is not always necessary to force a child into traditional lucrative fields if he or she is better suited for well paying blue collar jobs. In other words we can be comfortable and secure making far less than what is necessary to be considered a 10 to 1 %er

I will shut up now :)

This post was edited by iheartgiantschnauzer on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 20:07

I think one of the hardest parts of choosing a career is you simply don't know what you are getting into. Most children have a good idea of what teachers do as they are exposed to them so much. Maybe they know what pastors do or have an idea of what doctors or plumbers or other trades might do if they've had some exposure. But for the most part, they haven't a clue. And how would they? When I was entering college I had not a clue what an economist does and would never have guessed that that's where I'd spend my career.

I've linked the occupational outlook handbook below, because not only does it list estimates of demand and income by occupation, but it lists descriptions of what the job is like. For example, "Surgeons and anesthesiologists usually work in sterile environments while performing surgery and may stand for long periods."

Friend studied accounting and it wasn't until he graduated and started working that he realized he hated the office environment. He went back for graduate education and is now an award-winning landscape designer and spends much of his days outside.

Here is a link that might be useful: Occupational Outlook Handbook

An aside to iheartgiantschnauzer:

Your numbers overstate how high the income is for the top 10%...the break point is $135,000 as of 2010. Average income, especially when income is so skewed, is very misleading...it's why most refer to median income. 10 guys in a bar each making $35,000 a year, the average is $35,000. Bill Gates walks in and the average skyrockets, but the median is still $35,000.

So it is quite possible for people from non-monied backgrounds to break into the top 10%.

I apologize for the interruption.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chart showing breakdown of upper income

Did you see the recent reports on upward mobility, how geographic region is a factor. In certain parts of the country, it is much easier to rise from being in lower income bracket to higher.

Sorry, I didn't really mean to take us off track, but it is relevant to careers. I happen to now live and work in an area where it is more difficult to move up.

Here is a link that might be useful: NPR article with links on upward mobility and geography

This post was edited by gsciencechick on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 21:11

As Annie and awm pointed out The numbers I quoted were wrong. I have apologized for the misinformation. I would delete it, but then where would my shame be? I still think that the numbers still mean little if not put in context of location. Does 140k really equal 10 percent in certain cities? According to Annie's graph we are in top 4, but around here we are only considered upper middle class just as my parents were.

Lots of good advice already given.

I would add the advice to read the book "The Millionaire Next Door". It is an easy to read book describing the analysis of researchers about e behaviors and attributes of Americans with net worth over 1 million dollars.

#1 attribute?

Still married to their first wife!

Most are small business owners or those with some sales or technical positions. Sensible with spending. Savers. Active community networkers.

The book also discusses how to parent to help kids manage money, and discusses how not to make your kids financial charity cases always needing help as adults.

Duplicate

This post was edited by juliekcmo on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 22:23

"I will shut up now :) "

I hope not! Your posts are so interesting :)

Wow! Thank you for the responses! I did not expect so many. :)

A few points to clarify my OP:

A. My definition of financial success might be drastically different than yours. To me, it means having enough money to:
-Pay the bills (home and car repairs, groceries, utilities, and basic needs) without watching every last penny
-Afford "extras" like braces with only minor discomfort
-Save for general purposes (emergencies) and retirement
-Have a job that will likely exist in 10 years
-Take time off occasionally, even if it is just to stay home and TCB

B. I never said or implied that I am looking for info related to careers requiring a college degree. I am all ears regarding careers that pay with minimal formal education.

C. Working hard and making the most of one's strengths are givens in my family. We do pass this message onto our children, both in our actions and in discussions.

D. I agree that communication skills are key. I worked as an online instructor (making just a few $ an hour, given how much time I put into it!) and was astonished to see how difficult it was for many students to write at a professional level.

I think the problem is that I see (IRL) many people working hard, living frugally, but still struggling. Not to the point of destitution, but in not managing "financial success" as I've outlined above.

Thanks again, everyone!

I think a lot of financial success, as anele defines it, has to do with financial management. A buddy next door (at work, a well-paid exec) years ago complained to me that even though he makes so much more than his parents did, they seem to just make ends meet and don't have money left over for things like vacations and such. Well, he chose to sink massive money into a mc mansion that strapped them with a heavy mortgage. Had they chosen a still large but smaller home in not a brand new neighborhood, he would've had the cash left over.

So much of it has to do with the choices you make, including the invisible choices. I roughly estimated that, even tho the company cafeteria was subsidized, DH and I saved about $2,000 a year just by packing our own lunch. Same with people who stop out for breakfast...$10 lb of coffee grounds will buy you 30 cups vs maybe 4 or 6 at Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks.

I also think it's a curiosity that many "rich" folks (top 10%) think of themselves as middle class or upper middle class. I suspect it's partly because they don't realize how low the middle has sunk (median income is now $51,400, down from $55,000 in 2007), partly it's because of the neighborhoods they live in where they surround themselves with like-incomed people, part of it is that the ultra rich are so ultra rich that it makes almost everyone else feel poor by comparison, part of it is the Lake Wobegone syndrome where all the men are strong, all the women are good lookin' and all the children are above average.

"I also think it's a curiosity that many "rich" folks (top 10%) think of themselves as middle class or upper middle class. "

Some of that is because their high paying jobs are in high expense areas.

In 1996 we moved from inexpensive New Orleans to very expensive Fairfield County, CT. Our costs tripled for many things. Not only our mortgage and property & auto taxes, but things like the price for fall recreational soccer ($30 in NOLA, $90 here) or enrollment fees in religious ed class ($10 in NOLA, $30 here). Of course food, gas & utility prices were higher. Also we now had to pay a state income tax, in addition to being bumped to a higher federal tax level. We had money for extras in NOLA, but not in CT when we were raising 3 kids. We weren't middle class on paper, but definitely so in real life.

I love all the advice and info in this post! The only characteristic missing in the success equation here is taking risks. I believe inorder to become independantly successful one needs to be willing to try the unknown and risk discomfort and even failure. We raise our kids too safely and comfortably sometimes and our fears for them can stiffle their sense of adventure. You can not live up to your potential with out taking risks and trying things unknown. The most successful people, finacially and personally, have been known to be " dare devils". Teach your children to be unaffraid to try and reach beyond their comfort level.

My parents were dirt poor. .Some of my friends were shocked by our house and couldn't spend the night. My father built a boat, motorcycle, tractor and a car. All from scratch. He had no interest in our house, whatsoever. He was the Fire Chief, my mom served on school boards and ran Unions for decades.

My Mom bought the house we rented (for years), against my fathers desire. She was a strong woman who set a great example for her five daughters.We are all home owners now.

Three out of five of my mother's children, who went barefoot in summers out of necessity, have thrived and left poverty in the dirt. The other two are comfortable and much better off than our parents ever were.

I admire my Mother for the job she did with her children. I'm astounded by her success as a parent - in spite of all of her obstacles - and wish I could interview her today to obtain her secrets.

Today, I watch parents do so much for their children that it damages character. Children have everything. What are they going to expect? Privilege is over rated.

Golddust, you were lucky to have a mother who got the big picture. Mine didn't. My folks, like some in the lower socio-economic levels, looked upon ambition with suspicion. Big ambitions signaled you thought you were better than everyone else, that you would abandon the family, that material goods & status were too important to you. They had no concept of the pride of achievement, it was all about ego & material rewards, in their eyes.

I ran into this attitude of class betrayal when I applied to college. My parents, products of my small, rural midwestern town who never went to college and didn't know the ropes, planned on sending me to the local community college, then on to a small rural state college. It was more education than they got, and I deeply appreciated them having this goal for me, was aware of their sacrifices, etc.

But I secretly applied to a distant, elite university. When they found out I got accepted at the elite school, they were furious -- huge, bitter fighting. They accused me of being a snob because I thought the local community college wasn't good enough. Who did I think I was, etc. They were also scared to death of me moving away, of the big city, of the unknown vs. the predictable course of life they'd known (it all sounded so exciting to me!). Money won the argument for them, and I had to turn down the admission & scholarship I'd won.

Fortunately, a teacher of mine intervened. She convinced my parents to send me to the big flagship state university as a compromise. She told my parents that if I stayed in our small town to go to school, I would probably shrivel up & die (her exact words). So my parents begrudgingly let me apply to the state U. at the last minute, where I thrived (& self-financed some of the expenses), and then after moved far beyond my childhood world. It put a strain on my relationship with my folks for several years.

I often think what my life would be like if I hadn't dreamed big & rebelled when I was 17-18 years old. That one year has made all the difference in my life.
Roarah's point about taking risks really resonates with me.

I don't see this class bias in this forum. Seems like the parents here want the best for their kids and are supportive of their kids' achievements. But I still run into pockets of society that think this way (some of them my dear relatives, lol!), as does my friend in NOLA who works to pluck talented kids out of the crummy inner city schools & place them in the magnet high school for gifted kids.

p.s. Not that I have anything against community colleges. My youngest son attended a local community college. It was absolutely a perfect fit for him, and I'm grateful he found his adult footing there.

Anele says:
"D. I agree that communication skills are key. I worked as an online instructor (making just a few $ an hour, given how much time I put into it!) and was astonished to see how difficult it was for many students to write at a professional level.

I think the problem is that I see (IRL) many people working hard, living frugally, but still struggling. Not to the point of destitution, but in not managing "financial success" as I've outlined above.

"

Anele your comment summarizes my impressions of the world. I agree that you can work very hard, manage your money well, and still not have financial comfort and security. My brother works as a government contractor for the air force, and he is in that situation. He got a late start and he will probably never catch up. I was posting at the same time as Annie, and did not see her response until after I hit submit. I then composed a long edit to my post, but I lost it, and I figured you wouldn't go back up and read it anyway. But after your last comment about communication I couldn't resist.

Today communication has come to mean saying what you mean to say, but saying it in a way that inspires confidence in others.

I am a good, albeit impatient, communicator of technical information. I can do it with management, foreigners, novices, techies, you name it. I can make people understand stuff. I work really, really hard, and I get a whole lot done. But, and this is a big but, by nature I emphasize risk, danger, weakness, trouble, and shortcomings of technology. Now this is fine for the product -- I keep stuff from going down because of bugs -- but I don't come off as management material because I seem worried and do not inspire confidence. I do not make people feel good. If I were a personal banker (struggling income level), I'd never make it to branch manager(more comfortable). The people in charge don't want gloom; they don't want to feel unsuccessful or disappointed. They want you to spread confidence to them, the other employees, and the customers.

It has taken me a long time to realize that a good communicator manages to make his point in the nicest possible way. Those who are in the know and can understand the subtextual details will get the message. Those who are not that into the details will just feel good about you and want to promote you.

If you teach your kids how to really, really communicate, while at the same time making others feel really, really good about themselves, they won't go unpromoted.

I can't say how this is done. I have a wonderful sense of humor, but my neither my punning ability nor my sublime irony has gotten me "up the ladder". I think you can impart this ability to your children. I think it can be learned, but it has to be encouraged during the character formation phase.

Working in a company is great for people who aren't entrepreneurial/inventive or risk-taking. The triumvirate of those two skills, when combined with the...

Jamie's - very very good points. I agree with you on the tone being as important as the content of the message.

Gosh-- so much good info to read and re-read!

Jamies, what an amazing insight. I never, ever, ever thought of it that way, but I can see it applying to just about every job and relationships in general.

We want a doctor, for example, who makes us feel confident (in ourselves and the doctor), as well as positive. Ditto for a lawyer. Salesperson. Fire chief. Server. President. Friend! The list goes on and on.

However, CAN it be taught? Thinking about my own kids, one stands out as having this ability. I am not like this-- I am going to see if I can retrain myself to be with way . . .but it certainly won't come naturally to me. Hmm-- I think you've hit upon the key to success. Not sure I can get my kids to change, however.

Gold-- interesting and inspirational story! Now, here's the question . . .did your sisters have children? Are your sisters able to pass on the teachings of your mom to their children (if they have them) despite having more $ advantages?

Roarah, you are so right-- risk is that elusive element, isn't it? Sometimes it seems so obvious that it WAS the right (or wrong thing) to do, but of course, that is always in hindsight, otherwise it would not be risky!

Awm, thank goodness for that teacher. I'm reading a series of memoirs (for children), about a boy from a family of migrant workers. He had so many good teachers that made a difference, including one talking to his family about college, just as yours did.

Annie, I don't know-- I don't think it is so clearly about managing money correctly. One of the biggest changes recently is in healthcare. The costs are rising SO much and SO fast. Miz M commented that when her DH was facing a painful terminal illness, the medical care wiped them out financially. On a much smaller scale, my BIL passed out for only seconds and was rushed to the ER (no one really gave him a choice) and not admitted to the hospital. It was nothing (it's happened before and he's had extensive testing previously), but the bill is over $5K and that is WITH "insurance." That is on top of the expenses that just keep coming and coming . . .it's hard to keep up, and that is on a lawyer's salary. Several of my friends/family members have a yearly deductible of $10K. In the case of my BIL, it happened right as the ins. coverage was about to end, so will not apply to the new $10K deductible.

I am starting to feel like money is all a ridiculous game. For example, when my husband got laid off, we had exactly until midnight to use our insurance. I wanted to use our FSA, but was told that it ended the day BEFORE his last day (this is standard). Corporations know far more than I do, so they always win.

Three out of the five are very successful. Out of the two remaining, one is comfortable and her life is secure.

The other sister totally denounced our Mother's teachings in favor of her DH's dysfunctional family. She is a narcissist whose life is unraveling at age 66. She has no financial security and is a shopaholic. An angry warthog who blames her DH for not providing. He is still working hard at 69, though his body is giving out from physical labor. (She has always had issues larger than our family could handle.)

She never calls me, lives States away and I am very grateful. I hear of her situation (drama) through others she isn't isolating herself from at the moment. I've never done anything to her but she is jealous of me. People with that disease generally end up in complete isolation. She is quickly approaching the finish line. I give my other sisters advice on how to deal with her but have no desire to have contact.

When I brought in Hospice for our 96 year old Uncle, she tried to persue me for murder charges. She turned me into the State for hiding his money from them. I passed her charges with flying colors. LOL. I had no worries because I had done nothing wrong but care for him the best way I could.

Our kids are self supporting. "You make the bed you lay in" is a quote we know well. And passed down. Actions and decisions have consequences. Our money isn't your money and there are expectations.

That said, our Derek, who has lived in Texas for the past eleven years, had his company dissolve overnight. We asked him to come home and learn the family business. DH is 65. He has made no plans for the business in his retirement. He is a hard worker and we plan to invest in his training. He is capable of learning part of the business. Aimee worked there 17 years before launching her own business, that can be easily combined. Together they can run the business. Pay them good living wages until we die, while we retain profits, until we die, then they can have it all. DH will work as he desires.

We don't want to sell our business. We'd rather pass it down and maintain our good reputation. It is very possible now that Derek is here.

There is nothing wrong with nepotism, as long as you keep it in the family and provide excellent training. LOL.

When we invited Derek home to learn the business, we also purchased him an eighteen foot travel trailer to place on our property. It's a 1970 era, well taken care of, but he is a neighbor, not an adult son living with us.

Mean? No. Papa needs peace and quiet now. We both do. I got pregnant at 14. Later I adopted and raised kids that I plucked from the dregs of society. I have lived my entire live for my kids. I'm done. He will be gone very soon. Currently he is in grateful shock for his living conditions. We are passing sticks to communicate.

I channel my mother.

Jamies, you are brilliant and I thank you for that very wise insight about your own communication style. I think you may be the female version of my husband who is super, super smart with technology and can talk to anyone and make them understand. However, he, like you, is the one to spot potential problems and point them out. People probably feel he is discouraging to the process. How interesting. I have shared your thoughts with him and it was an "aha" moment. I think this will help him move forward in his career. Sorry to hijack, but I wanted to thank Jamies. This forum is such a wonderful resource!
Judy

As a corollary to jamies fine point, I remember a study from my MBA classes where they talked about social skills vs. task skills and that the person with better social skills beat out the person with better task skills in terms of success. Seems you can be doing the best job in the world, but it won't help your career if no one knows about it.

I remember one fellow at work (son of a diplomat) who had postponed and postponed a presentation that our boss kept asking him for. When he was finally ready to present, he realized he prepared the wrong material and not what the boss wanted at all. But somehow, by the time the conversation was done, the boss was delighted with him and was looking forward to next week's presentation! That's communication skill!

We were taught PIE at work: performance, image and exposure as being key elements to success. And I've seen it used to good stead by many. Some versions of the model suggest that performance is just 10%, image is 30% and the rest is exposure to the right people. PIE model

There's also an excellent youtube (about 6 min.) called Shift Happens about the impact globalization and technology is having on jobs and skills and education. It's eye opening.

Here is a link that might be useful: Shift Happens

Shift is very thought provoking, Annie.

When will "social media" participation become an essential to money making? Is it already there? My husband's employer makes people blog, but that's in addition to doing everything they did before. I socialize just like I did in olden days. When will I be forced to twit in order to earn my living? I'm still emailing for the present, albeit with CCs to targeted individuals.

If you change employers every couple of years, and your social identity is tied up in your earning/working identity, and an employer is made up of people with identities, will all employers just become one big employer?

I mean, if I'm still doing the twits and posts, will make any difference who's paying me? It seems like social media could become a bunch of busywork while the real money stuff takes place off line - ?

~Jamie Orwell

I don't think kids have to be deprived in order to appreciate what they have and to be inspired to provide for themselves in the manner in which they were brought up. We've given our children wonderful experiences and opportunities, and they are aware that they are very, very lucky. We have always emphasized hard work and social responsibility. ----Just some thoughts that came to mind reading various posts, above.

With respect to the original question, I do not think people have to have a "passion" for whatever they do. In fact, I am really sick of the notion that everyone must find their passion because they will be unhappy in life and their jobs if they don't. I've seen this mindset keep students changing their majors over and over in college, and adult children constantly changing jobs to find one that they can be passionate about--- and then end up making horrible handmade furniture and living with mom and dad who foot the bill for the latest passion.

Rant over :-)

I don't think people have to work hard to make a lot of money- smart, usually, but the work hard typically has more to do with keeping the money not having or making it.
Manual laborers work hard and make very little...some highly educated people have degrees in fields with no jobs....

A good inheritance can be invested to produce an income so income producing work is optional.

As children, we (five girls) went barefoot in summers out of necessity. We could run on gravel, dirt and rocks. In high school, when our feet stopped growing, our school shoes failed. They flapped at the toes. Still we wore them. ( better than barefoot).

I was raised dirt poor and no longer eligible for financial support at age 14.

I have survived well on my own. Never took a dime from Welfare. I managed to feed Aimee when I only had one dollar to my name. All of us have come so far. Each generation propels the next toward better knowledge. There are so many people to thank along the way.

kswl, I agree with you...you should maintain employment while you are looking for your passion. In fact being employed may help you find your passion.

Also, I worked for a large corporation and was able to get my graduate degree going to school nights and the company paid my tuition. That can be a great option for those wanting to get ahead but who can't afford to just stop their income for a couple of years in addition to shelling out the money for tuition and books. It was grueling, but it was also exhilirating.

I sometimes get the sense that people think those with white collar jobs don't work as hard as those with blue collar positions. Yes, you may make more money, and typically it is less physical labor, but the hours can be long and longer, and the mental stress can be horrendous, especially when the decisions you make can affect so many people. So there are trade-offs to be made.

Just want to thank everyone again for your contributions to this topic. I have not been able to get on the computer much to type out replies (DH using it for his job hunt) but I am reading everything on my Kindle. Invaluable information and thoughts here. Thanks so much!

Kswl .. Good point..the whole concept of every has a special talent that they have to find is a bit bogus. No fairy godmother is going to come and anoint you as a Tinker fairy when the pearl lights up. Especially with the cost of college, some degree of pragmatic approach to choosing college majors that are a good basis for jobs is a good idea. My neighbor has taken on loans to put his three girls through a small private college. One is studying history and and the other just switched from English lit to international studies. Their older sister who graduated with a degree in psychology and women's studies is looking for jobs to teach English in Japan and is applying for nanny positions that pay $10-$15 an hour. Please don't get me wrong.. I love history. I read history books and historical biographies all the time. I also believe there is a lot to be learned from understanding history which can help us make better decisions in politics, public policy, and even business. But there are just not enough jobs which call for college graduates with that knowledge. The pragmatic approach is what can you do with enough skill and competence.

Good point on communication. It is something with which I struggle.

KSWL, Annie and GW, interesting thoughts.

I think too many times history/ liberal arts and other "soft" social science majors do not market themselves properly. They have employable skills. I would argue desirable skills. Many jobs need young talent that can research, analyze data and communicate findings succinctly. Yet many of my classmates in my majors did not try to find internships in business, despite having strong statistical analysis and research skills. Many neglected internships all together and focused on summer jobs that paid the bills. I found despite my sociology/poli sci background i had my pick of decent paying summer internships and jobs after graduation. Then again I made sure future employers understood that I had transferable skills.
However, I was lost and perhaps fell into the trap which kswl and GW mentioned. So I decided to stay in academia and pursue phd. I did well, but as mentioned previously it didn't feel like the perfect fit for me. Upsetting my family and my faculty advisors, i quit and switched to nursing. I love my career now. I am once again in graduate school pursuing a doctorate, but this time I have no doubts.

I think It is imperative that we are able to pinpoint our transferable skills and package ourselves into a promotable brand. I think everyone can benefit from some form of sales job at a young age. Such a job can help one gather informational in a conversation then target the "sale" of oneself to the employer based on the information gained.

iheartschnauzer --> that is good point on data analysis. I think this is a critical skill in many many jobs. understanding data and interpreting data is critical. A solid understanding of basic statistics and decent excel and powerpoint skills are very transferable skills. Again the emphasis on skills as opposed to domain/ content knowledge of history, sociology, etc. Sometimes I feel there is not enough focus on vocational eductaion at the policy level. A lot of jobs expecting a undergrad or a graduate degree would be easily served by someone with good communication skills, writing skills to write good emails and powerpoint and data analysis skills that they can work in excel. Throw in some good work habits and self management for handling projects, you have a fantastic employee. A good year of professional courses should do the trick.. why waste all that money going to college to study something no employer with jobs care about.

On choosing a career, someone was being interviewed by Oprah who said that whatever it was that you loved when you were 7 is something you should be doing because at that age we are typically pursuing something we really love doing. Oprah commented that she loved talking to people and lo and behold!

This is a great thread.

Sending DD back to college next week to finish her Psychology and Justice studies degree, with minors in Women's studies and Sociology. Hoping somewhere in there she'll find her passion (and a JOB!) She works as a peer rape crisis counselor at school, and will be working in that organization for pay this year. There has been talk of law school, but at this point I'm not sure that really is a financially responsible move. She's always wanted to go into the FBI, and the law degree would help that I guess, but the cost? OW!
Beth P.

Yesterday at our opening address by the new university President, she (yes, SHE) quoted Albert Einstein in that "Try not to be a person of success but a person of value." Of course, Einstein said "man" vs. "person", but that line made me think of this thread.

It is interesting that in a school that was formerly a state teachers college for women, we have only had one previous woman president.

Annie- guess I missed my calling as a professional soccer player :)

Gs- It is the perfect quote for this thread.

Beth- i had a few friends and family apply to the FBI. Two made it, three did not. One was a chemistry and political science double major. He had a masters in chemistry and worked three years in forensics before applying. The other who made it was a sociology major who is fluent in mandarin and a few other languages. She worked for a security firm during college and a year after college. I used to think the law degree was the best avenue to the FBI, but I've heard that's no longer the case. If your daughter is serious about the FBI, she should talk to a recruiter about gaining the best competitive edge. It may lead her to rethink law school.

iheartgs, maybe someone with a passion for golf would never be an Arnold Palmer, but s/he could work for golf digest or if into design, design golf courses or accessories or work for titleist, or manage a string of pro shops or some other way to mix their passion with their profession.

Annie, I was just kidding. But You and Oprah have a point. I've stayed involved in my 7 year old self passions: I still paint and when healthy I coach. Hope to get back to the coaching soon.

This post was edited by iheartgiantschnauzer on Thu, Aug 15, 13 at 9:03