Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
mtnrdredux_gw

Lending out your home

mtnrdredux_gw
9 years ago

We had a second home (lakehouse) for a decade, which we sold, and now have a beachhouse. The new house is closer to much of our family and generally more in demand.

Over the years, we let people use our lakehouse from time to time and also donated stays for charity auctions. I would say people used it without us 1 or 2x a yr

Our new beachhouse isn't even done yet, and we are being overrun. Like it has been in constant use by family both when we are up and when we are not. I don't want people to use it when we aren't there, for several reasons:

1. I like privacy and I don't want to have to worry if I have left anything private anywhere
2. I like things perfect; and I don't want stuff moved or changed or, frankly, even used! For example, they got sand in my new W/D. At this point its just a few grains that I hear whenever I open the lid. I sound like a lunatic being bothered by this, but it does piss me off.
3. I did not decorate this like a rental house or even a second home; there are lots of fragile and/or expensive things. I would never expect anyone to replace them, as I think of that as the risk one takes when one has guests.But I didn't think the risk was going to be 24/7
4. I am trying to be a very (very) quiet neighbor, as our neighbors are for us. I can't control or trust what others do.
5. We have the house professionally cleaned for us. Then, someone else stays there, and they clean it. They probably thing they are doing good, but they do not clean as well as the professionals.

Am I just an unreasonable pill, or? WWYD?

Comments (130)

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn's relatives aren't coming in and trashing the place. They're doing normal things like cutting on a butcher block and washing their faces at a sink. She can't have them there doing that because every surface is precious, and she can't find a way to tell them without hurting their feelings. Maybe just admit to being neurotic about the house. I'm sure they have an inkling.

    Reminds me of when I visited my sister. She had candy in a Depression glass candy dish. My six year old son broke the lid trying to get a piece. She yelled at him and he cried, and yes, I did get the impression the dish meant more than my son's feelings. That Christmas I bought her an even nicer candy dish.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MayFlowers,

    IMHO, and based on your story, you are indeed describing a neurotic who values things over people. You are not describing me. I have never yelled at or so much as expressed dismay at any guest (much less at a child for goodness sakes) who has damaged something of ours (and it has certainly happened). If I had, I don't think any property I have ever owned was so amazingly, utterly unique and fantastic that people would have chosen to spend time with an azz, just for the privilege of staying there.

    I am sure most people do not have an inkling, MayF. We seem to always be opening our homes for everything from block parties to charity events, to school parties, extended family etc etc . I will continue to do so, with pleasure, but I am ---- without any guilt --- limiting the use of our new home without us present. I have said this several times now.

    I am not going to apologize for filling my home with fragile or dear things. I will not apologize for putting in vintage MBA sinks with a sink skirts, or a folding RR sink. But will my visitors be confused about how to use separate hot and cold taps? Will they assume that the sink skirt is thrown in the wash? Will they have any damn clue about how to use a folding sink? I am not a Marriott and should not have to appoint my home to allow unfettered unsupervised use of my house.

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Will they know not to walk on a painted floor with shoes?

    I agree that you control who is in your home and when. I think everyone here is in agreement. But how do you control everything even when you are there? For example, the sand in the washer. It's part of living on the beach. How could you have prevented that? Shake out all their clothing yourself? Whether it's your new rules or you being watchful of how they handle your things, they will have an inkling that they need to be more careful at your beach house. That could make everyone feel less relaxed.

    I never said anything about hosting parties at your own home. I am discussing the beach house only.

  • peony4
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn, I don't think you should apologize for any of this, either. What a discussion this thread has generated!

    My grandparents had restrictions and limitations on areas of their home and their belongings, because they appreciated and were proud of being homeowners. My entire family (both parents' sides) consists of very hard-working people who do place value on their possessions, not because possessions are more important than people, but because they view possessions as earned and not easily replaced. For my grandparents, and my parents, respecting one's home and its contents aligned with their work ethic and appreciation for life's blessings.

    (They also would never entertain the idea of an animal in the home, which would likely generate a lot of negative reaction in this forum, too.)

    They did not live in the era of consumables that we have today, and I believe our young adult generation is being impacted by the fact that such products as cell phones and clothing are *expected* to be abused and replaced often. This is a reflection of the quality of today's manufacturing, of course, but also reflects a certain lack of "pride of ownership."

    Today, my husband and I use and enjoy what we have, but we don't treat them as disposable. We demand that our kids understand how much things cost, and that we take care of what we have. In doing so, we're also setting a precedent of respect for others, too. I was so pleased the other evening when we attended a graduation party, and the first thing my kids did when we entered the hosts' home was remove their shoes without being prompted to do so. (And then I breathed a sigh of relief they had remembered to put on clean socks.)

    I'm admittedly neurotic about many aspects of my home. This doesn't mean I don't love and cherish my family and friends who use it.

  • palimpsest
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mayflowers

    You aren't going to convince me that people who have expections that because a relative has something that would be great to have at their disposal that they should be able to use it essentially at will and treat it no differently than they would their own possessions --that they aren't at least as selfish as the person who owns it and isn't thrilled about other people using it.

    To go back to my sister as an example. She doesn't "trash" things, it's not like she has drunken parties and throws dishes.

    Its that she doesn't take care of things in her Own house because to her those things aren't important, so she isn't going to be anymore careful with anyone else's things:

    You have to clean the floor after she prepares the simplest meal, like a sandwich

    Expect to find greasy or newpaper-inked hand prints on everything she touches, which is the wall around every lightswitch, the door around every knob or handle, or the wall going up and down the stairs. Looking for the switch instead of rubbing her hand around? Using an actual knob, handle or handrail? Not important.

    Expect to find scuff marks on doors, she pushes them open and kicks them closed with her foot.

    Expect to find a dirty dish put away in the cabinet. She's probably reading a book while "cleaning up" and got distracted, putting a dish away instead of in the dishwasher.

    Expect to find, or not find, the bottle opener or other kitchen implements for days because she walked off with them and put them somewhere.

    Expect to find a sh---y diaper in some random wastebasket or under the bed she changed it on...she "forgot" to pick it up and but it in the suitable trash. You may not find it until you walk around looking for the source of a bad smell.

    Expect her to break a light fixture in the bathroom because she's reading while drying her hair and hits it with her hairdryer.

    Expect her to break the glass or chip the frame of a picture hung in the guest room because the eyes "look at her" daughter so she takes it down and turns it to the wall--and not carefully.

    This is not trashing things, this is how some people (and more than you might think) "Use" things.

    And you probably think I'm selfish and a terrible snob too.

    But I slept on the floor at a sister's house this weekend. On a rug that smelled like cleaned up dog pee. Because she couldn't actually keep track of the fact that there was more beds than people and told me I didn't need a hotel reservation.

    Oops more people than beds. And I didn't say anything. One because it doesn't matter about sleeping on the floor. I 've done it before and I'll do it again. Two because she would be offended (and defensive) to have it pointed out that she's neglected to do the most basic things.

    This post was edited by palimpsest on Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 7:21

  • lucillle
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn
    I admire the gracious way you open your home to others, and the careful way you are establishing boundaries.
    This thread I think is destined to become a GW classic, read and thought about by many, as all of us have similar tensions in our lives between nurturing others and realizing what we need for ourselves.

  • anele_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Knowing you feel that way, I'd be a nervous wreck to be there, whether you were home or not.

    Oh, me, too! Frankly, I strongly dislike staying in others' homes because the likelihood of something going "wrong" is high. Any time we are out of our routine, out of our usual environment, accidents happen.

    I only stayed in someone's home who was not immediate family once. She specifically invited us; she had a constant stream of guests. (It was her 2nd home and she felt better having people there when she was gone . . .sort of housesitting). There was a huge, sunken bathtub, like a hot tub. Well, one of the days we were there, the sewer backed up, right into the tub! Yuck. Apparently, this was something that happened on occasion. We had to deal with it (call the plumbers, get it cleaned, etc.) But, of course, I still felt very guilty, as though we had caused it somehow. I really feel uncomfortable in others' homes (except my mom's, of course, because I used to live there!) because I know things can go wrong, and I don't want to cause problems.

    Every house has quirks, and not knowing those quirks can lead to damage. Or, it's simple matters like guests just not being careful.

    In our last house, we had the only room that had wall-to-wall carpeting cleaned for a party. At the party, it rained, which was a shame, but one of the children (old enough to know-- older than some of my kids) walked outside in the mud, got his feet good and dirty, and then came into the room with the rug. We could never clean it well again. Now, in my family, even my 2 y.o. knows to take off her shoes . . .and would notice if her feet were muddy. It's not because we are rich, but BECAUSE we aren't-- it costs money to replace things, and so we are careful.

    As for yelling at a child for damaging something-- I don't think it can/should be done with a guest, but my own children are definitely shown my displeasure if they break things (which almost never happens), esp. since there is only one room (really, just 2 corners of it, even!) in the house where they have to be calm. (The rest of the house is fine to play, be crazy in . . .and we have a big backyard.) I was pretty upset when one of my daughters broke my brand new lamp shade that I'd waited months to buy, because she was playing in one of the only areas of the house she should not have been. Why? Because it costs money that I don't really have to spend on that.

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think mnt's family is careless and do respect her home. But like anele said, accidents happen. But it seems to me she's trying to guard against life happening. You can't live and keep everything perfect. As I said before, it's going to be hard to monitor things that are being used as they're intended to be used. I used the candy dish incident as an example of something being used as intended where it got damaged. The reaction was about the precious thing and I guess you could say it affected the relationship since it happened 22 years ago and I'm thinking about it again. Lol.

  • palimpsest
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This isn't directed at you Mayflowers, it just happens to come after one of your posts.

    One of the undercurrents that I routinely feel in Mtn's threads is that there is a....disapproval... because she has paid domestic help and freely admits it.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with having "help" or full-on staff, and I don't think it's snobby or pretentious to admit having it if you do. In fact I think it's "false" if you would try to disguise the fact.

    If your time is spent more efficiently doing other things, and you can afford to keep others gainfully employed, more power to you.

    There is nothing undignified in Any honest work, no matter how menial. It's not as if hiring someone to do your cleaning or ironing is preventing them from doing advanced pharmaceutical research or something. I am not saying that to be snotty, I'm just a realist. In my own small family there is a Phi Beta Kappa; a practical-shrewd woman who will be a millionaire before you know it; and a high school dropout who works for a landscaper. To each his or her own ability.

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm sure a large percentage of women posting on this forum have cleaning people, so I don't think that's the undercurrent. Nor do I think it's her wealth, if that's what you think "one of the undercurrents" is.

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think one of the the topics is the house as a hobby, at least that's what interests me most about the discussion. When you build it and furnish it almost exclusively thinking "What will look nice?", but those nice things don't work out so well when you put people in the hobby house, how do you transition from it being a hobby and now live in it? And I'm not talking about unreasonable people like Pal's sister, who should stay at hotels.

    Understand that I have some of those tendencies myself. I sent my other sister, who is more like Pal's sister, a picture of my living room and she said "Does anybody live there?" I told her we camp out back.

    This post was edited by may_flowers on Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 9:54

  • anele_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pal, I don't sense that at all. As Mayflowers said, I am guessing I am the odd duck here who can't afford help cleaning (or if I did, I'd have to make many other choices that I'm not willing to make . . .like live in a dangerous neighborhood). I am more likely to know people who clean homes vs. those who pay for help, but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who can and/or chooses to spend money that way.

    We spent a long time painting our deck this weekend. We are far from done. My husband (going to turn 42) said he was "too old" for "that" kind of work. I sort of think he thinks it's beneath him, even though we aren't wealthy. I, on the other hand, can't begin to tell you how much I actually enjoy manual labor. The solitude, the peace, the not-having-to-manage-kids (we paid our oldest to help) while I do it is fantastic for me.

    And Mayflowers, I totally get what you mean about the candy dish. And, truth be told, even though my daughter was doing something she should not have done, I am disappointed in myself that I got upset at all. So, while I do show disapproval over "things," I wish I wouldn't.

  • palimpsest
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Meh, anything that is more than slightly out of the modal personality or accepted normative behavior of Gardenweb parameters is almost always (subtly at least) differentiated.
    And it's not about plain old income or plain old whatever.
    And I don't think Mtn has "a cleaning lady" that comes in every week or two and runs a vacuum and throws some cleanser in the bowl.

    I call it as I feel it, but maybe I am just paranoid :).

    Peace and all that, Mtn. :-)

  • lucillle
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I'm sure a large percentage of women posting on this forum have cleaning people"

    I don't have one and I am not affluent. I don't care one way or another, I enjoy people for what they say not what they have, but I would not think that by reading posts here that one could surmise the above.

  • ellendi
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So, now I am wondering Mtn, knowing how you feel now about your new house, would you have done things a bit differently?

    I think you got so wrapped up in the enjoyment of the decorating, that you didn't realize how it would effect you when it was finished.
    The truth is, you have decorated with unique, beautiful things and now you are uneasy about them getting damaged.

    The other aspect is that this home is more accessible to more people. You are a gracious person but the combination of how you want to keep your home and how people will actually treat it is overwhelming.

    I guess we all have a story about possessions being more important than people. I have a sister in law that made it be known that she thought I was hard on her things. (I think I might have chipped a platter while I was hand washing after a dinner.) I stopped helping her. (She rarely invites us, anyway)

    I can see putting a special value on a family heirloom, or even something that has sentimental value, but my SIL put this value on all her "antique" things that she has accumulated. I feel everything should not be equally important.
    If you use something, there is a risk of breakage or damage.

    In the case if my SIL, I told her to just use everyday things for us. But to be honest, with me it was a case of a thing being more important.

  • jterrilynn
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I never saw any under-currents regarding having house staff directed towards Mnts but maybe I missed it. I mean who wouldn’t want cleaning people on a regular basis? Are there really people out there who wouldn’t? I usually hire someone to clean after big DIY projects because every little nook and cranny needs attention and it’s too overwhelming for me alone. However, I normally clean with the cleaning person. It’s sort of fun then because we crank up the music and drink sherry after.

    Still having a full time cleaning staff brings up a good point in making a flood of visitors more bearable (at least one would think). I’ll just add that to my many rants above lol. I do not like non- very immediate family to stay because it’s a lot more work in cleaning for me. I wonder if I’d be more generous if I had a full time cleaning staff…don’t know. Maybe if there was a cook as well? Maybe if I had more money and didn’t feel the grocery and utility crunch!? Still don’t know. I admit that I don’t like people in my bubble for too long so that could be my main problem. However, add all the rest of my rants and too me the whole thing is too stressful in more ways than one.

    Edited to add...

    Martinca, I think the behavior may be regional. My new neighbor is from an area near the Midwest town where I’m originally from. She arrived at my door without calling first (normal behavior for those Midwest parts). We got to talking about the differences with people/friendships in the mid-west verses southeast transient Florida. It’s a whole different way of life up there because you have been around the same people for years. Many things are just a ‘’given’’. She “neighbor” said people down here think short term so there are few givens. Also, people up north in that area think nothing of driving 45 minutes to an hour for a restaurant. Here, we have many choices within 10 minutes. Up north people think nothing of driving hours to anywhere so do not see the slightest problem of an airport pick up even if on the other coast. These differences can be frustrating when you haven’t lived in the Midwest state since 1978. And, more so if you barely know these people.


    This post was edited by jterrilynn on Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 12:50

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MayFlowers,

    I don't think the minutiae are really the point, but let me answer your questions anyway.

    "Will they know not to walk on a painted floor with shoes?" A lot of people I know take their shoes off when they enter a home. Even moreso when you are in a sandy area. But I have never ask anyone to, except my own kids.

    'I agree that you control who is in your home and when. I think everyone here is in agreement."
    Not exactly ... there are different opinions about allowing people to use it without us. That is the crux.

    "But how do you control everything even when you are there? For example, the sand in the washer. It's part of living on the beach. How could you have prevented that? Shake out all their clothing yourself? "

    Okay, here's the deal. There is an (older) w/d in the basement. That is where I do most of the laundry. There is a "(brand new) w/d in the MBR suite. It is in a little hallway that is accessible (through a door) to the rest of the floor. We had a guest stay here when we were not here. They did laundry in the MBR laundry. The machine was pristine. I had used it once. When I got here, there was sand on the floor in front of it. There was sand in the various dispensers. There was sand on the top of the washer, in the dryer, all around the edges of the lint filter. What would I do? One, shake things out over our verandah. Two, take things in through the walk out basement and wash them there. Three, even if you did use the MBR machine, when you unloaded the w/d, didn't YOU see, and hear the sand ? If so, do what i did .... wash it off!

    "Whether it's your new rules or you being watchful of how they handle your things, they will have an inkling that they need to be more careful at your beach house. That could make everyone feel less relaxed." I really don't think so. I am not sure how, as this thread has evolved, the impression had been that I have changed rules. I never changed any rules; I was just never so popular before! If they feel less relaxed then they might somewhere else, they hide their anguish well!

    "I never said anything about hosting parties at your own home. I am discussing the beach house only." I take umbrage with statements about valuing things over people. That would not seem to be venue-specific! This is a decor forum, and so I spend most of my time here talking about decor. You can easily tell that I enjoy decor and it is important to me. I am not sure how you can judge whether it is more important to me than anything else, especially people, unless we started posts to discuss all the things we each do for others.
    Seems to me you are projecting issues/incidence with your sister on to me, a total stranger.

    Peony, Yes, I think the thread has hit on interesting points. And your point is well taken --- ie in many cases the focus on taking good care of material things is a respect for money and the hard work that most of us do to earn it, rather than a sign of excessiveness.

    LOL about the clean socks! (no holes, either?).
    I had a similarly gratifying experience with my 10yo DD. She was visiting an adult friend who made her a cup of tea. They were at the dining table, and my DD asked for a coaster --- the woman was so impressed! Funny thing, we don't even own coasters.

    Pal, do you ever marvel at the DNA that you share? People do have different sensibilities, but she sounds more than clueless! I have one SIL who always gets orange makeup all over my towels, but she is a saint by comparison.

    Lucille, I did solicit opinions here, so it's all good! and yes, it is thought provoking!

    Anele, I think I recall you sharing that incident here before. Oh my! As for yelling at kids for ruining things, DH always reminds me of a Dennis Miller line "you can have nice things, or you can have kids." Somewhat true! I think the thing with kids is, they generally are poor at seeing the consequences of their actions. And they are ignorant. Of, say, the potential damage of a squished blueberry on the floor, then tracked through the house (scary music playing). It's a big part of parenting. Yes, kids need to be taught respect for things.

    Mayflowers, Like anything, balance. Everyone has their own personal comfort level with how much they will put up with in terms of impracticality versus something they enjoy. I have found it for myself and my family, but that doesn't mean it would apply to everyone.

    Anele, That doesn't sound like disapproval over things, it's disapproval over her behavior, which happened to have a consequence for something material.

    Thanks, Pal! : )

    Ellendi,
    No, I really enjoy the things that make our home unique. I would not have it any other way. At the end of the day, some of my choices will just make it harder/more costly to clean and maintain. That's okay as a tradeoff. As I said, I have decided that I am limiting who uses it when we are not here, but other than that, the "vacancy" sign is up.

    And man, there are some real PITA people out there. I was taught then when someone damages something, they apologize, and you say "oh don't worry!" As a host, your job is the comfort of your guests, period (regardless of your inner voice!). If something is so expensive that you would be terribly pained to have to replace it, it was too expensive to buy. And if it is irreplaceable, then don't use it unless you decide that the pleasure of using it outweighs the risk.

    PS I think I missed responding to some replies --- if so sorry!

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, let me be perfectly blunt here. Mtn, I would love to have either of your homes. I would love to have staff, including gardeners and housekeepers and cleaning people. A cook would make me swoon with happiness. I would not ever be inclined to want people staying in my home if I were not there. I am a little green with envy, but I like my home and weed-laden garden that I never seem to have time to make perfect. I do not in any way resent that you have such wonderful homes and wish you years and years of joy and laughter in both houses, including that oh-so-wonderful itty-bitty stone house.

    Oh, and I would be irritated about the sand in the new appliances, too. However, I would have a sink skirt that could be thrown in the wash! :)

  • tuesday_2008
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have been following this and was not going to say anything else, but I must!

    I 100% AGREE WITH CYN!

    Now I feel better.

  • anele_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MTN, I agree about the nice things or kids . . .I shop accordingly. The lamps were in a strategic location that no one "needs" to be by, which is why it was annoying. With the exception of a very few pieces (the lamps!), I always imagine our things knocked over (inc. by the cats) or walked on or whatever, and plan it out that way . . .and oops, sorry for repeating the story about the rug!

    Pal, I guess I still come from the perspective that it's all relative. To some, sure a "lady who cleans the toilet" may be normal, so full-time staff is at a new level. For those who don't have even monthly cleaning help, any help is a new level. I don't think, however, that just because someone else is one or two or a million steps beyond where we are financially, means we are envious. I know I'm not.

    I just want to put in a disclaimer for my conscience. I say often on these forums that my husband and I are not wealthy, while knowing full well that, relative to much of the world, we are.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Anele,
    No, it was the sewage story! That was memorable, LOL.
    I agree with you ... spending time on line talking about decor matters puts you in the 1%; globally at least. Ever single one of us must count ourselves lucky.

    Thank you, Cyn, and Tuesday for your well wishes. And nothing is ever perfect, which is part of the obsession!

    PS The sink skirt can go in the wash, but some products can stain fabric even if it is washable ... think Clearasil for example.

  • palimpsest
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, I'm just cranky. I haven't had anyone clean for me either, in my adult life, and actually, my SO cleans houses for a couple of people with specific cleaning needs.

    I wasn't accusing anyone of envy, which is why I didn't use the word envy. You don't have to be envious of someone to just not quite like something about the way they do things.

    But like I said, I am cranky. Please ignore me if you think that's best.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We have a live-in couple. They clean whenever we want and they clean exactly as we would...they are exclusive to us and clean no one else's house. They also cook and do laundry and windows and groceries and lawn care and garden.

    Their names? Mr & Mrs Annie Deighnaugh!

    ;)

  • eandhl
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Although it is worse to have sand in & by the new WD, even if they used the lower level WD any guest should have cleaned up the sand!

  • bonnieann925
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn,
    Why not use #4, the quiet neighbor concern. Out of respect for your neighbors, be clear that you will have guests only when you are there. End of story!

    This is your home, which you have taken great care to decorate and have it to your liking. Nobody will exceed the boundries you set.

  • Bethpen
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn, you are exceedingly gracious and honest in these threads about your home and life.

    I say just drop the bomb. Even if it is "sorry, the house isn't available". I feel like you and your family need a Summer (or four) to build your own memories there without someone else hacking up your cutting board. The wear and tear that eventually is going to happen should come from your kids or DH first. Draw first blood as it were. You have put a lot of heart and soul in the design, you should have some time to enjoy it before anyone else.

  • heidihausfrau
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All I have to say is that I received a Boos block as a gift. I have not cut on it, and don't plan to! I put a glass dish on top of it, and it holds fruit.....

  • martinca_gw sunset zone 24
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bethpen . This is the very best response here!! I love it and wish MTN would take it to heart and do it!

    " I say just drop the bomb. Even if it is "sorry, the house isn't available". I feel like you and your family need a Summer (or four) to build your own memories there without someone else hacking up your cutting board. The wear and tear that eventually is going to happen should come from your kids or DH first. Draw first blood as it were. You have put a lot of heart and soul in the design, you should have some time to enjoy it before anyone else."
    I'd probably say, ' you know, I just feel very sentimental about this place ....' And then quote Bethpen regarding ' heart and soul, etc. ' Pefect.
    Amen.
    Marti

  • martinca_gw sunset zone 24
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    As a matter of fact, I'm ( thanks in part to to Beth) beginning to sincerely relate here and feeling very ticked. As in, how dare they? Standing by, contributing zero, there on the sidelines, salivating, ready to barge in the moment their relative's vacation home, not theirs, becomes habitable.
    Phooey on them ! Say this : "we've decided we want to take a season or two to be in our new home as a family, just us, make it ours. The end.

  • maddie260
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Frankly, I'm appalled by all/most of this; I would never think of asking to stay in anyone's house! I don't want the responsibility for other's things. I very much understand mtn's reservations about leaving people alone in her house. My own things mean a lot to me also and I don't want to lend out my house either. It has nothing to do with how she feels about people. Right on, bethpen.

  • Oakley
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pal, are you referring to me when you said there is a "disapproval" of Mtn. having someone clean? Not sure where you'd get that assumption. I was just using the cleaning thing as an example because it's called "good manners" to clean after you stay in someone's home.

    If guests didn't clean-up before they left, you know Mtn. and anyone else would be livid. I'm talking basic cleaning here.

    Mtn., I wouldn't tell anyone to come to your house only when you all are present. That way you'll have guests all the time.

    Yes, drop the bomb and just say NO.

    BTW, when are you going to post pictures of the house we helped decorate? :)

  • Bumblebeez SC Zone 7
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't have a second home but I do experience much of the annoyance of wanting to be exceedingly gracious and welcoming in my home (while I am here!) and still find family and guests clueless about most things.
    Trying to help me clean up the kitchen after a meal is one thing most want to do and do wrong.

  • Acadiafun
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I sympathize because I like everything perfect too. I actually hate even wrinkles on the bedspreads, and my eyes are drawn immediately to any offending dust bunny on the floor.

    But.........my family. I love those guys so much of course they could stay when they wanted. I would also include three close friends as they are "family" too. I don't think I would like all these visits and it would be a grin and bear it kind of thing. In the end when I go I am sure I will be thinking of my family and reflect on how I treated them in this life. When my BIL passed away unexpectedly I remember with some angst how I was annoyed with him the last time he visited, but am glad I did not show it.

    Still it is your house and you have the right to say no and enjoy your house as you like.

  • deegw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am fairly obsessive about my house but I hope not overly so. One of my teenagers mentioned that our house is more organized than most of her friend's houses.

    That being said, I had ELEVEN college kids stay in my house over 4th of July weekend. Six boys and five girls. Kids who legally went to bars every night (with designated drivers) and went to the beach every day. Over the course of three nights I think i picked up one wet towel, rinsed some sand out of the boy's shower and rinsed one grotesque thing out of the boy's bathroom sink.

    Eleven slightly inebriated young adults knew how to act in someone else's home There is no excuse for an adult with a family to not know how to behave as a guest. Mtn has every right to control how and when clueless people use her home.

  • anele_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn, oooh, that story is even worse repeated! Sorry again!

    Pal, I get what you mean. Yes, you're right-- disapproval does not necessarily equate to envy. And, I'll take Cranky Pal over No Pal any day!

    Annie, hahaha! We have the same arrangement here!

  • palimpsest
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No, Oakley I am not referring to any one person in particular.

    One of the things I will say though is that if it is someone's job (or unpaid role if it's a family member) to do a particular task, like cleaning, you may actually be "getting in the way" or messing up the system that is in place.

    When I was growing up we had a cleaning lady that came in about 6 times a month, and the extra two days a week were either special projects or ironing, and there was a lot of ironing in our house. Honestly, this woman appreciated every single hour my parents could give her to 1) stay away from her husband and (2) make as much money as she could hide from him--he'd steal anything--so she could divorce him.

    Anyway, when my parents had parties and people in, she was often hired extra to keep up on the extra laundry, tidy up the bathrooms and iron clothes for people who traveled in and were staying at the local hotels or whatever.

    This was her job, it is what she was *there* for.

    One of my friends felt that this was some sort of oppression or something and said she could iron her own dress, she didn't want someone we had "working like a slave" to do it.

    They went back and forth rather politely "I'll do it", "No, I'll do it". etc.

    Finally the cleaning lady who was really almost like a member of the family asked to talk to me and said:

    "Either I iron that dress or it doesn't get ironed. She will just be getting in my way, messing up my schedule, and if she tries to do it I might just break her arm. Get her out of here."

    1) she was in the way.
    2) she was interfering with the job of someone else
    3) she was implying that the job that this woman did was so menial she should be embarrassed to be doing it for someone.

    Likewise I had someone at my father's house with me recently and they were told "do not make your bed on Tuesdays, and don't worry about the bathroom, put your wet towel on the edge of the tub.

    They made their bed, they hung up their towel, and the cleaned the bathroom (toothpaste on the mirror or something) and *this cleaning person actually said to them:

    "Why did you make your bed? I just have to unmake it. Which towel was yours? Some of these were clean and I wasn't going to wash them All. And *Please *Do *Not use my cleaning products!"

  • Jules
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We've had a steady stream of overnight and day company since we moved into our beach house six weeks ago, with plenty more company to come this summer. I absolutely love it, but it can be exhausting and overwhelming at times ... especially as we're still trying to get settled. We're traveling this weekend and have friends staying here on their own with some of their family. They were invited to stay as a thank you gift, but still, I understand your concerns!

    Sounds like you already decided what to say to those who desire to stay there when you're not present, but here are a couple thoughts:

    It's true that all houses have quirks, and I don't see anything wrong with making a long list of those quirks and house rules for those times people are there without you. (Or even for when they're there with you.) You can make the list humorous and light yet thorough and add fun/funny illustrations. We do this for one of our homes that we rent out, and it gets positive feedback. The list is accompanied by info regarding amenities in the house as well as area activities and attractions.

    I encourage you to spend the money on professional cleaning after EVERY guest use, even if the house only used for a day by a single guest. I had to switch my thinking on this from "I'm paying $x to clean up after them" to categorizing all cleaning as a part of annual maintenance costs. We built/bought our homes for our pleasure foremost, and it would not be pleasurable for me to walk into a home with dirt, sand, stains, etc. My cleaning people in various locations know my expectations, and they take care of things before I have to. If I have to pay because a guest can't afford it, that is simply a position with which I've been blessed. I have a hunch you feel the same way.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Juju,

    Congrats on the new house. Did I miss what you decided about the painting over the stove?

    I do like the idea of a book/guide, but they caught me short. And yes, we have always had the cleaning people in at the lakehouse before all guests arrive and after they leave ... but in this particular case, there will still areas being worked on and the cleaning person contacted me and said she didn't know if it made sense to wipe everything down until the workmen were done (which I appreciated). Then there are also complications like Pal mentioned. One guest who stayed there made the bed, but I wondered it they washed the sheets. I would hate for the next guest to be the ones to discover the answer was no, KWIM!?

    Edited to add; Thanks again all, for your inputs.
    Oakley, I still don't have one room that is totally done,done. A carpet missing here, sink skirt on order there, etc etc. Don't worry, when I am ready the photos will be ad nauseum ... you know me. Queen of oversharing.

    This post was edited by mtnrdredux on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 11:11

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "They made their bed, they hung up their towel, and the cleaned the bathroom (toothpaste on the mirror or something) and *this cleaning person actually said to them:
    'Why did you make your bed? I just have to unmake it. Which towel was yours? Some of these were clean and I wasn't going to wash them All. And *Please *Do *Not use my cleaning products!'

    Pal, bet that person was mortified and if it were me, I would not darken your doorstep again. Some of us just can't leave a bed unmade or a towel unhung. It is not a big deal to "unmake" a bed to change sheets. I suspect the guest was just trying to be a good guest and left feeling awful. If that were my cleaning person, I would be so embarrassed and I would let him/her know that dressing down guests is not the way we do things here. No matter what was done to make that person feel welcome, your cleaning person undid it all whether the person let on or not. My goal with guests is to make them feel welcome, at home, and as if they are the most wonderful, enjoyable people who ever graced my home.

    I am fine with people here who share frustrations and rants and then bite their tongues in real life. Much preferable to the other way around.

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So guests have stayed in the house, and what has actually occurred so far is some sand was left around and in the pristine W/D. No other incidents reported, but a lot of potential for things to be damaged. So your relatives probably weren't raised by wolves after all. It seems you will need to walk them through the house and give instructions for most of your things, and that could start to sound picky. Since you sound really annoyed about the sand, I don't see how you will avoid not being a helicopter host.

    We have relatives on Puget Sound who built a $1 million+ home ten years ago. We visit and have also house-sitted a few times, and they have a list of what not to do. She also visited us and tore off the labels from my placemats, saying she hates when people leave the labels on.

  • nanny2a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mr. Mtnrdredux and I purchased this home as a special retreat for our family, and have put our heart and souls into arranging it for our personal use only this summer. When the time comes to share it with you, we’ll certainly be in touch. But for now, the answer is NO.

    Keep chanting that and have it or something similar easy on your lips when people ask to stay. Be firm. Enjoy your space and let the others find their own!

  • palimpsest
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    cyn,

    Actually, no, the guest wasn't mortified. And we have been cohabitating for 19 years and has been in the house regularly before and since. :)

    The cleaning lady didn't really yell, it was more like an explanation of "why" and since my SO had been told explicitly ahead of time Not to do certain things, I think there was an understanding after that.

    And actually I would *never scold a cleaning person, because I think that is the sort of thing that would put them into a subservient position. She's providing a service that is actually kind of doing us a favor, and I think it's also up to the household to be accommodating to her, as well.

    Technically my SO was wrong, so I think it was okay for her to explain why. She's a little rough around the edges and she will never have the subtlety of a hostage negotiator, but that's why she cleans houses and isn't out running a major company. In fact, when my sister yelled at the former cleaning lady about something my mother made her apologize in person *and in writing.

    The cleaning lady and my SO just had a nice chat at my dad's 90th birthday party. :)
    Over the years the people who've worked for my parents have been sort of a part of the family, and sometimes there are family dynamics. At the former cleaning lady's funeral her son mentioned that my family actually treated her much better than her own.

    This post was edited by palimpsest on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 12:07

  • roarah
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    May flower I do not understand your judgemental attitude towards Mtn. She has done nothing impolite or wrong. It is her house and her right to run it and worry about it in her own way! These are not invited guest,they are people who assume they have a right to use her home at their will and without regard to her belongings and feelings.

    What has happened to our society where when someone mentions that the things they have worked hard to own are important enough to be kept nice and hope that others would respect that desire is considered horrible and non caring. Not every house should need to be "family friendly" (boy do I hate that phrase and attitude too) maybe it is time for families to be able to live civilly surrounded by nice items for which they show appropriate respect and care.

    This post was edited by roarah on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 15:06

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm sorry if it came off as judgmental. I'm just giving her food for thought about how impossible it will be to keep up everything to her high standards and still enjoy the home. I wasn't aware they were uninvited guests. Kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?

  • runninginplace
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "May flower I do not understand your judgemental attitude towards Mtn. She has done nothing impolite or wrong."

    FWIW, I've had the same confustion--and , yes it does come off as very judgmental.

    Not sure how you could have missed the fact that the original question and lengthy discussion deals with people who are asking to stay at a beach house without the owners' being present...that was pretty consistent in the entire conversation.

    I just assumed perhaps there is some personal situation or background that is causing you to respond so negatively and may have little to do with what the OP brought up.

  • bbstx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    {{gwi:1514119}}

    Just trying to insert a little levity. FWIW, mtn, I think you have a perfect right to do as you wish. And people who invite themselves to your home are thoughtless clods who were raised by wolves (how's that for mixing my metaphors!).

  • Gracie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Not sure how you could have missed the fact that the original question and lengthy discussion deals with people who are asking to stay at a beach house without the owners' being present...that was pretty consistent in the entire conversation."

    Nope, haven't missed anything. I don't think we need 100 something posts to agree that she doesn't need to let people in her home when she's not there. I think she is also fully capable of figuring out how to say no. I am mainly addressing how to balance her needs vs. her guests' and taking the guests' POV. Just for the hell of it, all right?

    Since her "uninvited guests" thus far are there with her permission, whether given begrudgingly or not, they are in essence invited guests. So I'll assume for a moment that since they live closer to the house than mtn, the uninvited guests have the key. Someone asked this and didn't get an answer. So maybe they have the key to check on the house when she can't so they feel they might as well have a swim while they're there. Maybe they feel entitled. If she discovered on her arrival to the house that they have been helping themselves to her home without her knowledge, I wouldn't let them chop on my Boos block either.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you to Roarah, Running, et al, and BBSTX, for the very kind words and levity, too.

    Anyway, the apron is hilarious. It reminds me of an old brass plaque, rather sturdy and nice, that was attached to the kitchen door of the beachhouse (through which everyone enters). It said something like "Guests make us happy. Some by coming, some by going". The line is funny, but I didn't really want that on my door. It is gone now.

  • Oakley
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mtn., I can't wait to see pictures!

    Pal, I wasn't talking about cleaning when a housekeeper is already there. I'm talking about cleaning up before a guest leaves the premises. It's just good manners.

  • bbstx
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If the first apron doesn't work and your guests over-stay their welcome, try this one:

    {{gwi:1514121}}

Sponsored
My Kitchen And Bath
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars48 Reviews
Virginia-Based, Leading Kitchen and Bath Remodeler Since 1994