"...that I wanted you to know what I have put up with to stay in this friendship.". I think that is a key statement and only you can answer the question. How much DO you want to stay in this friendship? Are you getting anything out of it? Don't stay in it just because you've been in it since grade seven. That isn't a good basis for a friendship.

I think I can relate to your friend. I am a friend like her-and I feel so guilty sometimes. My life is very, very busy and I just don't have the time to physically go see my friends. So I call them when I have the time to talk to them-lots of times it's when I'm driving (thank goodness for blue tooth!)

Right now, that I'm kind of stuck at home with nothing to do, I wish I was one of those more engaged pals-so my friends would come visit me, but I have established this way of relating to them, so I'm paying for it now that I have the free time.

You could just flat out tell her that you're a bit hurt that you don't get to spend quality time with her and then propose to make some dates. If I have a definite date with a pal, I try really hard to make it. I have found that lunch is a good time-but if you're not close enough in proximity, that can be difficult.

My one friend lives pretty far away, but works in the building next door. She always wants to do something on a Friday after work, but that rarely works for me. She's too far away to visit on the weekend for an hour or two, or to go shopping with, so we make weekly lunch dates. I confess to not answering my phone when she calls if it's not in a good time to chat. It's not that I don't want to talk to her-just the timing is bad. That could be what goes on with your friend-especially if she uses her cell for business calls.

If you have to "put up with her" then she's not much of a friend. I'd back off and just let her call you. If she notices, tell her you're just respecting her own preference for limited contact.

I'd just kind of casually back off and stop initiating anything with her. Unless you are short on friends I'm not sure what the point is of making much effort to maintain this "friendship". She seems too busy for it and appears to have other higher priority interests.

I'd just kind of casually back off and stop initiating anything with her. Unless you are short on friends I'm not sure what the point is of making much effort to maintain this "friendship". She seems too busy for it and appears to have other higher priority interests.

Thanks Blfenton,pesky, kswl and gibby. You have all stated clearly what I truly know.
It looks like no one feels I should have a heart to heart? I think her opinion of herself would be that we are still good friends, but life is just getting in the way.
Kswl, I am writing down your last comment and I think I will use it.
Gibby, no I am not sort on friends. But she has the distinction of being my longest friend. So, we have a long history.
Kswl, It is actually putting up with her DH when he is in the mix.

I'm wondering why she would call you at all, when the only time she can talk is while she's on the road and distracted by other things. Then she won't pick up the phone when she knows you're calling. I'm going to take another perspective and suggest that she can't socialize with you because of her husband. He probably doesn't approve of your friendship for whatever reason and is making it harder for her.
I would also back off and avoid contacting her; let her make the next move. Hopefully, she'll call when she can have an honest conversation with you.

I think if she has been a friend all these years you should maybe give her the benefit of doubt? Although she is certainly being a neglectful friend she doesnâÂÂt sound evil. There are many things that could be the reason for her neglectfulness, who knows maybe she is just not in a good place right now. I would stand back for a bit and see what happens. However, you could still send a birthday card or an occasional note just to keep the link open.

Annie; you beat me to it! That's exactly what I was thinking!
She's limiting her phone calls because her hub doesn't approve of them being friends. My guess is he senses none of her friends like him; so he tells her who she can & can't speak to or see.

I'd have an honest conversation with her & ask. I'd then tell her that you won't call her any more & she can let you know when she's allowed off of the leash

OOps.. beat not beast!

This post was edited by roselvr on Sat, Jun 1, 13 at 19:58

reselvr: I thought you were calling me a beast. I've had worse responses. lol.
ellendi: I would only add that my intuition tells me she's going to need a good/lasting friendship to turn to at some time in the future. She could be in an abusive relationship at home and you're a good friend for caring.

I know what it is to have a friend with that kind of history. I have one I've known since kindergarten and it's really special to have that much history with someone. That said though, I can't help but feel like she may not feel the same way as you do. It's obvious that she has put everything under the sun ahead of you even when she knew you needed her support; that, in my opinion is not a friend. I also feel that her not taking your calls when she is at home is rude and her explanations as to why only confirm what her actions are saying which is your friendship holds no priority in her world.

I think you need to step back and re-evaluate what it is you want or expect from the relationship. Maybe just back off and stop calling her. If she calls you and you decide to take the call, just tell her your busy with your family and can't talk (especially if she's driving) I'm not suggesting you do this out of spite but more because I've found that the only way to make someone understand how you feel is by turning the tables. The experience is often eye opening for them.

Based on what you've written, I'm not sure where the husband part comes into play, after all she's the friend not him, however I do perceive it as very one sided. I also think it's very sad that in a months time, she couldn't find a window of time to be there for you when you were recovering and for me that alone speaks volumes. I'm not sure I'd value the relationship at all after that.

It's clear as day to me. It's not her, it's her husband. For whatever reason he has, he does not want her to talk to you on the phone or socialize with you. The red flag for me was when she didn't take your call and she knew it was you, then picked up the other phone when she didn't. He was obviously standing there.

Don't back away from her. Something's going on and Annie's right, she may need you down the road. Sounds to me like she's in some sort of controlling/abusive situation with her husband and she's too embarrassed to tell you.

Next time you two have alone time, bring it up and make it clear to her what she says to you goes nowhere and you won't judge. Tell her you figured it out, that way it will be easier for her to open up.

Whatever you do, don't take it personal.

Interesting the direction this has taken. My friend's husband is OCD (which he admits to)but we think also bipolar. He is often inappropriate in his actions and the way he reacts. I do not think he is abusive. Over the years she has made friends with other couples. They used to have an Aruba couple on vacation. This lasted two vacations. The couple bowed out and made up an excuse about why they could no longer go during that time. This has happened over and over through out the years with other couples.
My friend gave him a surprise 60th birthday party. The room was filled with her friends. He had exactly one friend there. Not one person got up to give a touching, or funny speech about him.
I think what I am most is disappointed. I just have to decide if I want to have a conversation about all this. In reviewing everyone remarks, it is even clear to me that i should just back off, but that would leave many questions unanswered.
I truly believe she still cares. And, I think she probably thinks she is doing her best.
But, I also wonder if I asked her how she would feel if I never answered her calls, or only called her while doing something else, and if requested my presence through a trying time and I didn't show, how would she feel? Is this now the definition of our friendship?

Just talk to her! I thought you were going to go into something about her controlling or abusive husband too. It did sound like she was trying to avoid him knowing about phone calls and such. I think it's sad people alienate them because they think he's "strange" whatever that means. He surely knows it and simply might not want association with those people, making it hard for her.

If you are at a crossroads but have unanswered questions, why not write her a heartfelt letter or email? Then you can take your time to say what you feel or need to ask and she can receive (and hopefully respond) to it without distractions. What's clear to me is that you are in some ways mourning a relationship that has great meaning to you and I'm sorry for that.

The friend I referenced above and I have what we both acknowledge as a cycle. For years we will be on, then something happens and we're off, but once we connect again it's like no time has been lost. Heck, with this last reunion, after several years, we found each other in the same state 40 miles from each other and 2500 miles from where we were both raised. My point is, situations change, and even if the relationship is cooled for now, who knows what will happen in the future.

I didn't read all the responses but here are my thoughts.

As far as her not answering, I dislike talking on the phone and my time is limited. It could be she was in the middle of something or just wanted to wind down for the evening. Of course, I never answer calls from numbers I don't know.

"She made it clear that this was her only time to make calls. "
I can relate. It does sound like she keeps a hectic schedule, however, if she wants to keep a friendship she should make time even if when it's not always convenient.

I think you should talk to her and see what she says. After you have the conversation, if it continues, consider backing off and cherish the memories you have.

Snookums, it is sad, but his strange and bizarre behavior can be embarrassing when he is out in public. My husband once helped him with his computer, after a while it got to be too much for my husband, but he demanded, not asked but demanded my husband to come right then and fix a problem!
This was a break in seeing them for a while.
There are so many incidents, some just weird, and not many want to stay and pretend all is normal?
Which is why for years I just met my friend for breakfast or lunch. But then she starts once again trying to get all four of us involved. Probably because she knows her DH does not have a social life if not for her.
Luk, yes that is how I was with my friend for years too.

People don't have to be perfect to be friends. Why do you have to address anything? You know what the issue is, I would let her know you will be there for her and are concerned about her well being.
Continue to do the small things you have done, but please try to recognize that at this time of her life, she cannot be the type of friend you want her to be but that certainly doesn't mean you should drop her.
She is married. She probably most certainly knows what her husband has done to her life and has many emotions: resentment, love, hatred, confusion, shame.....so many things going on and perhaps, that effects her avoidance of you.
Continue to be her friend, on her terms, it costs you nothing.

I agree with bumblebeez.

So, I should not have a discussion, just act like it was fine that she couldn't take the time to see me after my surgery? I think this is what bothers me the most.

I would still talk to her so she knows how you feel. Just not make it an ultimatum kind of thing.

Seems to me the fact that she called and sent cards while you were laid up is a sign that she still values your friendship and did what she could. The fact that she couldn't visit you physically should not be held against her, IMO. You don't really know what's going on in her life.

My 2 GFs from kindergarten and I had gone our separate ways after marriage and children and issues with husbands getting along, but we have since reconnected and it is a wonderful, rewarding relationship. It is very difficult for us to get together esp with work and grandkids and life in general, but we get together, just us ladies, when we can and those times are special and valuable.

Part of that connection is not letting one's self get in the way of what is really valuable. Sometimes things happen and I feel hurt by one or the other's action, but then I have to stop and ask myself what is really valuable to me...and that is their love and friendship. So I focus on keeping that going and getting my own childish ego out of the way. I love them both enough to receive whatever it is they are willing to give, and to give them the space they need to do what they must in their lives.

I met with another GF from high school a few years back...hadn't seen her since college. We had lunch and it was fun reconnecting, but I left not feeling good about myself. She is very accomplished, which I applaud, but she made me feel like I had done so little with my life. So I decided this was not a healthy relationship for me to pursue and we've gone back to xmas cards.

No one can decide for you what value you want to receive and what you are willing to give to keep the relationship going with your friend. That's something you must decide...just be sure you are basing that decision on your true wants and needs and not some fleeting upset.

Ellendi, wondering if you also work outside the home? I ask because I think part of the issue may be nothing more, or less, than simply what she is telling you: she is at a point in life at which she is swamped and time is a precious commodity for her.

I have what I'd consider to be a very close friend. We met as PTA colleagues and have maintained the friendship now that our kids are long graduated from school. However, she is a SAH mother, I work at a pretty demanding job. I often feel guilty because although I love spending time with my friend, I really don't have time she has for long lunches, long phone chats, etc. To be brutally honest at the end of a day the LAST thing I feel like doing is sitting on the telephone for an hour. My dad and stepmother are retired and frankly I don't always answer their phone calls, for the same reasons.

On the weekends like your friend I'm trying to get all my various chores and housekeeping tasks done. Visiting people, heck going out on the weekends, is really not much fun when it turns into yet another duty.

So as several others have pointed out, this may well have little to do with a controlling husband and even less a gesture of disdain for you. Sounds like your friend is overwhelmed. As others have said you can keep the connection going by reaching out and if she doesn't respond at all, just let it rest for awhile. Given the longstanding friendship and the fact that she sounds like she's trying her best to stay your friend I would bet she'll reach out when and as she can. It just may not be on the terms or level that seems best for you.

Good luck!
Ann

Runninginplace, I could have written exactly what you said. By the time I get home from work, workout, and have dinner I am done.

This, of course, doesn't mean I don't THINK about family and friends often.

I don't use Facebook, I know that could help, keep in touch but I do not support their policies.

To me; when she said she called from another number & the friend picked up; it went from her possibly having a hectic life (don't we all) to more of she's not able to talk to her when hub is near.

The only way to find out what's really going on is to have a talk with her & ask. If it is because of the hub; at least Ellendi can decide what to say next.

I disagree with lukkiirish to "write her a heartfelt letter or email". If the subject of her husband is mentioned in anyway and he possibly reads it, it could be disastrous for the future of the friendship or the HW relationship. If the husband has issues, the wife is the one who needs to bring it up with him or be willing to open up to you. She is hanging on to him for reasons that you may never know and is not willing to open up to you for other reasons.

If you do write, simply say you would like to get together for a very brief visit to discuss an important, private matter. Hopefully she'll take the time and then you can initiate the conversation. Have 3 clear and direct questions or statements ready.

I'm much like gsciencechick in that that I don't have the time for get-togethers. I'm private and don't feel like opening up on the phone is appropriate. I've also lost the desire for some of the drama in other's lives. And I'm not good at sitting around to chit-chat over coffee or spending a girl's day. That's my nature since forever.

I have had friends and family that are hard to get off the phone with. So, when I return a call to them I do so when husband and I are on the way somewhere in the car so I have an excuse thatâÂÂs paid attention too when I want to end the conversation. Or I will wait to return the call when I have lots of extra time. IâÂÂm not saying you are one of those people but it is another reason some people avoid answering the phone at times.

The majority of you seem to feel that is was OK for my friend not to make the time to see me.
Maybe I am being petty here, but in my opinion, she could have skipped a weekly manicure or a visit with the step grandkids.
I now work partite, but I did work full time before kids. My friend has never had children, so just her and Dh all these years. (He has two from his first marriage and they were older teens when they married)
When we do talk on the phone, it is every two months or so. And it is for less than an hour, unless it is she that has something on her mind that needs discussing .
You have all got me to thinking. Is she not answering the phone for for all of her friends, or just some?
I know that if I did to her what she has done, she would feel very hurt.
I honestly do not think she doesn't want to talk in front of DH. Since she goes to bed so early, the few hours she has she probably wants to relax with him.
After reading all the posts, I am still unsure of the direction to take this in.

I don't feel you're being petty. I would be really hurt by her not making a few minutes to see me. I would have called or texted to thank her for the cards but would not call her again; I would leave it up to her to call.

Everyone's relationships are different. Depending on what the history was with the specific friend would dictate whether I say something or just write them off. I'm too old to play games with people. If a friendship doesn't feel like one; I move on.

Are you the person who had a brain tumor removed? omg, I would be upset too if she did not visit. It's great that she was very attentive with lots of cards and calls, but that one is hard to adjust to. Maybe you could ask her why she didn't come visit? It's possible she finds it very hard to see you/people that way, but still. It would be hard to just forget that one and get over it, you might need her help by asking why. Personally, I would not want to time it in a way that she would then feel obligated to visit, as that wouldn't be the same, so still a difficult situation. But maybe after this period of time has passed, if she still has not stopped around to see you.

I don't think you're overreacting at all.

"Maybe I am being petty here, but in my opinion, she could have skipped a weekly manicure or a visit with the step grandkids. "

I personally would never do that for a friend, unless it was a matter of life or death.

Her priorities are obviously different than yours and she seems satisfied with the state of your friendship, while you are not, and you're entitled to seek answers, as long as you are willing to own up to what she will say.

I would take the fact that she does not return your calls as a sign she is distancing herself from you, doesn't mean she thinks less of you but she is not willing to invest a lot of time in your relationship. I've been that person many times, it was a stage in my life where I was not willing to be involved in friendships.

I am sorry this is happening to you though, its a crossroads of life that changes things and it's hurtful.
I do hope you find a form of resolution to feel better.

Has it occurred to you that maybe her husband wouldn't let her use the gas or spend the time driving 80 miles round trip (or whatever 40 minutes equates to) to visit; she probably did the best she could by sending cards.
I'm starting to really not like this guy and nothing definitive has been said about him except that he's OCD and quirky; but I'm seeing a pattern that I've seen in other relationships.

I know I already commented but I'll say it again about I think you should talk to her. You've known her for a long time and you should be able to bring it up. I think ignoring it or acting the same way she is isn't a good thing. Unless you're willing to be ok with whatever the outcome and not wonder and play it over and over. It's bothering you (it would me too) and I know I would feel better getting it out that way your can hopefully give your mind some peace, you know? I'm to the point where I like to get answers even if it's uncomfortable because my brain doesn't seem to rest until I deal with it directly. I feel better emotionally if a subject's brought to light. You'll get an answer one way or another by talking about it. Some may not agree but she may not even realize she's coming across quite how she is or that it's bothering you.

I don't think it's petty at all to feel the way you are feeling. A casual acquaintance may pass on breaking a weekly engagement to visit a sick acquaintance, but a FRIEND would not. My friend was hospitalized for something fairly minor and I made time between my job and busy life to drive the 90 mile round trip to visit her during her stay in the hospital. She was there for a little under two weeks and I was there within 48 hours of her call. We may go months without speaking but the minute she said she needed me, I was there for her, no questions asked.

And to just clarify, when I suggested emailing her a heartfelt letter, I was in no way implying that you should put your feelings about her husband in it. I think writing to someone allows the writer the time needed to convey what they are really feeling inside ie Is everything ok? I value this relationship, I would really like to spend more time with you in a way that has less distractions. It also allows the receiver to choose the time to read the letter and absorb what is being said. Sometimes these types of conversations can be misinterpreted and the spoken word can't be taken back. I would never ever bring the feelings about a family member up in the conversation because no matter how it's said it can be hurtful.

It would seem by your writings that you are frustrated with the relationship the way it is and some of her actions just don't reflect that she's able to be the friend you are needing her to be at this time. It really doesn't matter if it's because of her husband or real life commitments because it still boils down to it being her choice to accept the demands on her time as they are.

As I've gotten older, I've learned that it's the quality of the friends I have that matters and not the quantity. I've also learned to listen to that little voice inside when it tells me something isn't right and react to it with honesty about what I'm feeling; so it's really that little voice you should be listening to.

I agree Lukki; her inner voice is telling her something isn't right; she just has to decide if; when & how she will say something.

The letter /email can be good & bad because it allows her to get her feelings out; but if the friend reads it while upset about something; it will take on a whole new feel. I've had people I've known 10+ years take something written (text; email; FB) wrong when they know better then to take it that way.

"Has it occurred to you that maybe her husband wouldn't let her use the gas or spend the time driving 80 miles round trip (or whatever 40 minutes equates to) to visit; she probably did the best she could by sending cards.
I'm starting to really not like this guy and nothing definitive has been said about him except that he's OCD and quirky; but I'm seeing a pattern that I've seen in other relationships."

What Annie said was my first reaction also. Everything you've said about her behavior as well as his indicates that this relationship has problems. None of us *not* in abusive/controlling relationships can imagine what it would be like but I've done some volunteer work and had the opportunity to speak with women who have lived with it. Many abused women are reluctant out of fear of retribution and embarrassed to admit their circumstances.

Please, if you care for this woman do not give up on her. Let her know you want to be friends and are concerned about her. She needs a good friend for when she is ready to change what is not working in her life.

It sounds like the biggest hurt you have with her is that she did not visit you. You specifically asked for her help at a very difficult time and feel (understandably so) that a friend as close as she is would make time to visit you.

My husband was badly injured and badly needed visits from friends and loved ones. Badly. Also, his rehabilitation time was long. I was quietly, privately surprised at which people were supportive in what ways. I probably do understand some of how you feel.

So what would I do? I'd still keep her as a friend but I'd change my expectations. I don't know that I'd value her less, but there might be other people I'd value more. Maybe in the past I thought of her as a friend who would be there for me, but now I'd mentally rearrange her into a friend who I have long-standing ties to but isn't one of my got-your-back friends.

She did reach out to you, just not in the way you wanted. So in your shoes I'd keep her as a friend, just not the type of friend I thought she was.

I'm so sorry she wasn't there for you in your time of need. I know it hurts, and if you don't want to keep her as a friend there's nothing wrong with letting that friendship fade off into the sunset. If I chose to do that, I wouldn't say anything to her about why. I'd just gradually lose touch.

My only other thought was that perhaps she feels like she has to keep in touch with the nieces and nephews or she won't be included again. Having a husband like hers would make me a little crazy myself and certainly would impair my judgement about friendships and family ties. I have a close family member going through some mental health issues. It's emotionally exhausting.

Again, I'm so sorry you had to go through that without the support of someone you thought you could count on to be there for you.

Actions speak louder than words. DH may be the problem, but really that is her decision. I would not have a sit-down conversation. I think that will alienate her even more. BTW, does she have any other girlfriends that she talks about? Some people just prefer to be with the spouse. The end.

Daisy, thanks for your thoughts. You clearly expressed exactly how I am feeling.
It's true that friendships can change over time and I have to accept that.
I agree that she is so happy to be back in the fold with the family that she might very well be afraid of being alienated again.
Rather, she does have friends, just not as many as she has had in years past. I think the friends she has are the long time ones that have hung in there for her. As I mentioned earlier, any new friends don't stay friends for too long. I think when her husband gets comfortable with them all his tendencies come out and quite frankly why would anyone put up with it if they didn't have to?
I think I will lower my expectations, demote her to a phone friend who I might see once a year and leave it at that.
I have had heart to heart conversations with others in the past and have resolved issues, but in this case I think I will let it go
Thanks everyone for your insight and support:)

"So, when I return a call to them I do so when husband and I are on the way somewhere in the car so I have an excuse thatâÂÂs paid attention too when I want to end the conversation."

Can't remember which poster wrote this, but it drives me nuts when people call me with their SO in the car. I don't want a 3 conversation. I would rather not talk if that is the way someone feels about speaking with me.

My BIL gave me a good piece of advice about a similar situation. He lives out west, and of course, with men, these friendship, relationship dynamic-type things seem to be very cut & dry. "If 10 people say it's a horse, it's a horse", Glib, I know, but it is clear that your friend isn't responding to your friendship needs in a way that is good for you.

Super red flag with the DH. I have a similar family member who has pretty much cut themselves off from every family member due to the SO in their life. Not sure if the SO is insecure, we're still trying to figure out what the story is. Your friend will need you at some point. It is up to you whether or not you want to be there considering her less that exemplary behavior while you were recooperating. Ugh, I don't think email is the proper forum to air your concerns. Voicing your unhappiness isn't going to change much (IMO). Whether your friend is being influenced or limited by her SO, she is ultimately responsible for the behavior. Really, let's be honest, she's an adult.

No, I would let it play out. If she has too much goin on and doesn't keep in touch, then perhaps you need to move on to better friendships. Keep the door open, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope that anything will change until the SO changes.

So sad for you. I hope you have other good girlfriends to count on.

E., you're ignoring the elephant in the room/relationship that some of us have mentioned. Her husband.

Had you not mentioned him I would have thought she was being a lousy friend. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. But you'll never know unless you two find the time to sit down in private and you bring her husband up. In a kind way tell her you suspect something's not right and tell her you're there for her and everything she says won't go any further.

oakleyok, thanks for your concern, but I honestly do not think her husband is abusive, Mentally draining yes, but knowing my friend, she is not one to put up with abuse,
You'[ll have to trust me on this one.
When I said I would let it go, that is on my end. She, on the other hand, will think nothing at all has changed in our relationship.

Another here who agrees with Bumble. I do think it wouldn't be a bad idea to talk with her though.

I don't think Ellendi is ignoring the husband. It sounds like he has some type problem and that most of their friends/acquaintances realize this. Sometimes things are just the way they are and you can't fix them.

Ellendi, you have the choice of remaining friends with this woman (and that means accepting her "baggage" as well), or not.

tina

Well, actions speak louder than words, and she didn't come visit you and she obviously could have, but she didn't.
We are all speculating about the whys but unless you specifically ask her, it is an unknown. You could, of course, ask her, but does that change anything? You might feel better having it off your chest but now she might feel guilty and avoid you more perhaps.
If it were me, I would probably say something along the lines of " the hospital experience was terrible and I really wished I could have seen you."
At least that way it's not outrightly confrontational " You are so selfish! Why didn't you come visit me?! You couldn't give up ONE manicure appointment? You couldn't reschedule it? Do I mean nothing to you after all these years when I might have died?!"

Lowering your expectations without ultimatums or retribution would be my path.

You should talk to her. She is your friend and isn't that what we are suppose to do with friends? If honesty hurts your friendship then it's time to let it go anyway.

Hope it turns out well.

Kelly, I think that next time we speak, if the opportunity arises, I might say something. But, at this time, I don't want to initiate a conversation.
During our last conversation, while mentioning how busy she was with the grand babies, she said "...and I wanted to get to see you but..."
Bumble, when I asked my friend to visit, I did not mean the short window of time when I was in the hospital. When she asked what she could do for me I said "Visit, I will be home for a month and I am sure I will be bored!"
And yes, I decided to lower my expectations as Daisy suggested and place our friendship in a different category.
End of story.

I thought about one thing. My mother would never visit my aunts and uncles when they were sick. We offered to drive her, etc., but she would have none of it. She would talk on the phone and that was it I don't know if there is some fear she had about it. It was very strange, but some people just cannot deal.