I agree! To me, frumpy is a woman, no matter her age, who has just flat out given up on trying! Not sweats or PJ's, but takes the easy way out and buys, or keeps, the out-of-date clothing. Not classics, but non-trendy ugly!

For example, boxy shirts or blouses that hit just at the navel. They are square-no matter the fabric type. Usually always have short sleeves.

Mid-calf dresses with cap sleeves, or short sleeves. Bonus points if it has a faux vest attached. Also has a dirndle skirt and usually comes in baby blue or peach. Large gold buttons are the main decorative item.

Sweaters with ribbon embroidered flowers, or snowmen, or kittens. Sweatshirts with prints of the same. Even worse-with faux collars peeking out the top.

Pull on pants with pleats at the top and tapered ankles. Generally in chino, cotton or whitewashed denim. Mom jeans!

Frizzy, unstyled hair. Or bubble permed, Melanie Griffith make over in Working Girl hair. Or over sprayed news anchor anchor hair.

Frumpy women come in all ages. I work with a lot of women over 40, some in admin, some in the field (literally the woods!) and some management-and most of them are very stylish. Simple as adding a colorful scarf or trendy accessories with their outfits. I don't care if the hair style is 'current', salt & pepper color or bleached platinum-as long as the hair is healthy looking. The frumpiest gals at my office have fried, frizzy hair. Unfortunately most of them have salt & pepper hair-but there are gray haired gals who's hair is beautiful. Frizz equals frump.

I'm not talking sloppy-I'm talking FRUMP.

The gal on the left-super cute style. The gal on the right-totally NOT frumpy (I love her jacket). The one in the middle-while she's wearing a more modern print, and I'd bet she is quite stylish, the style of that particular dress screams FRUMPY to me.

Anyone else have this happening?

So you know those mail order clothing catalogs that cater to the older over-retirement age women? (you have all seen them I'm sure at your parents houses, various waiting rooms, et al.)

So then you know how they always seem to have vaguely styled models who are obviously not 25 but really don't look 60 either. And you know how if you see these catalogs and you are say, 30 years old, that you say to yourself that no one who is the age of the model in the picture would wear that outfit? That it is the frumpy stuff.

But here's the big problem for me now (as I am still squeakingly in my 40's) At some point you begin to not see this phenomenon. So at that point you are in FRUMP DANGER! If the models don't look too young for the styles they are wearing, is it because the models are dressed age-approately (I skeptically doubt this has all of a sudden occurred.) OR is it worse, do we at some age lose the ability to know that when it is happening?

I think a lot of what you have mentioned has to do with the surroundings they have been in, people socialized with, their exposure to style, etc. Just as many who ask for direction on decor here. They may not be able to see beyond what we do, those who do have probably found something that turned a light on.

I have a friend a number of years younger than me. she has the same hair style from high school, straight long hair to the waist with bowl cut bangs. Have never told her how cute she would be going in another direction. In honesty, hair it isn't her priority for all the other great things she has going. Her house is grand, but full of mismatching trinkets and more to buy. I don't think the furniture has changed either in 30 years. Just not her thing, but a great lady to know.

It also may be more obvious to you as the generations age. Just with decor, they get comfortable and change is more difficult. We had a thread about older people who haven't changed a thing in their homes forever. Along with getting harder to wear what is today and live in what makes our homes easy to get around, being up to date trumps the style of today for many. Plus priorities on spending, which isn't always the older generation.

I'm in my 70s and still believe I know style. Most likely due to a long background in the corporate world and prepared for meeting many levels of professionals, even in public on a chance. But those corporate clothes are out of my life (except for some good basics).

Get that darn catalog you mentioned, once in a while, and have never had a want to look at it. But someone is wearing those clothes since it has been around for decades.

It is a tough call for shopping at my age and am over shopping for clothing per se. But comfort does come into play for simplicity and ease. In or out, I love jean detailed jeggings and long simple tops. I'm either in or out style wise, but they are comfort plus and hope they do not go away too soon. Gratefully I have full, curly hair which is easy to style in different looks depending upon the occasion. Probably not a stylist dream of current days.

I'm not special in this category but hopefully not a frump as described. Still love something new and always messing with house decor. We can return to this when I'm 80....still wearing the same clothes.and sitting on the same couch.

Frumpy to me is wearing ill fitting clothing & not really being in style. Wearing out of style hair-do's, etc. Wearing hose with tennis shoes.

Sloppy is being unkempt. Like me right now. :)

Julie, interesting what you said about catalogs.

I will soon be approaching 60 (yikes) but feel I fit in the "I look younger than my age category." (Sigh, or maybe I am just fooling myself.) Anyhoo, being short and petite I have to use catalogs because my choices are slim in the stores. So, desperate as I am, I look at everything petite.
Talbots is for older women, yet they are now only sporting very young women in their catalogs. If you go into a Talbots, you will never, ever see a young woman in there shopping.

Talbots used to have an older model named Dayle Haddon. I used to specifically look to see what she was wearing as I could identify with her. I actually wrote to Talbots asking what happened to her and of course got a form letter that had nothing to do with what I asked about.
They are trying to attract younger shoppers. Good luck on that one.

Like weight control, you have to monitor your wardrobe constantly. I want to always look like at least I am trying.

I think it's wrong to refer to classic as frumpy. Talbots is fine for classic styles.. you can find frumpy if you look but you are more likely to find frumpy at a dept store-- yes, even the better ones. I've shopped at talbots since my 20s. Sure, the things I bought there have changed.. at first it was just linen sheath dresses and a carefully chosen sweater but into my 30s and 40s, I found their pants fit me better and it's an easy stop for a suit jacket (but beware the styles with plastic bubble buttons.. frumpy!)

I can look frumpy in something that my youngest sister would rock. It's a bit about shape, a bit about pairings and a bit about attitude. Did you see Meet the Millers? Jennifer Anniston rocked out a pair of capri pants, sleeveless cotton blouse and keds.. an outfit I'd have associated with the "women of a certain age" when I was growing up. Check out any of the young women wearing vintage 50s style clothing? They look awesome and fun.. but on me (now so very shy of 50), they'd look frumpy.

So much is how you carry yourself, how you think and how you style yourself. I've always been an odd mix of "classic" and carefree (which you may translate to inappropriate, sloppy, funky and/or youthful). It's my style and I don't expect it to change too much as I age.

Do you ever worry that maybe you shouldn't worry about all this? :)

Frumpy is in the eye of the beholder. I think young women can look frumpy just as well as mid and older women. I do agree that it is a term applied to women rather than men. What is the male equivalent term?

Sometimes women think they look fine, but others see them as frumpy. Someone out there thinks her mom jeans are the best!

To me, it means someone who looks out of date or "old". However, what I think is old-fashioned may look perfectly fine to someone else. When I see a young person dressed in what they consider to be retro clothes,to me they look frumpy, but I bet they and their friends think they are very cool.

"Do you ever worry that maybe you shouldn't worry about all this? :)"

I've been wondering the same thing!

I agree it's all in the definition one puts on words. However, on the other thread it did disturb me that many posters related how they went out looking frumpy, even with bed hair and a cap slapped on top! I have never in my life gone outside my door looking frumpy except to garden. Even then I always make my hair look presentable and keep a pareo and shirt handy as I usually garden in my bathing suit and want to cover up in case anyone comes to visit! Fortunately I have a long driveway so have time to dress before anyone can see me! I always shower, do my hair, and put on clean clothes even if I dress very casually when I go to town. I do this for myself, not for anyone else.

So a word of warning to everyone younger than I am (which is probably almost everyone here as I am soon to have my 72nd birthday) is to start the habits you want to continue with when you are my age. If you are going around looking frumpy now in a couple/few more decades you will be sure to be frumpy most of the time. It's one of those slippery slopes we all deal with as we age.

Before anyone states they don't have time as busy mothers to shower and dress nicely I will state that I can shower, wash my hair, dry my hair, put on moisturizer and basic make-up, and get dressed in 10 minutes. Most people can spare 10 minutes to make themselves presentable. Of course I have years of experience as was a busy working Mom of 3 with an often absentee husband. You do what you have to do.

Because of DH's career I wore very classic clothes for decades. My 'sloppiest' outfit was blue jeans with a turtleneck and a tweed blazer. After DH retired it took me awhile to find my personal style which tends to be much more Bohemian. I no longer wear many classics, in fact feel quite frumpy when I do. So I'm all over whatever the new styles are and currently still love tunics, slim pants, scarves, and statement necklaces. Fortunately have lost 50 pounds over the last 5 years so can wear these with comfort. I need to do some research on what new styles are coming altho have noticed not much has changed in the higher end clothing lines for a couple years. Doesn't really matter as I have so many clothes I love I will continue to wear with a few tweaks.

Frumpy men are those wearing oversize sweatshirts and pants or any clothes that do not fit well.

Ellendi, I agree about petite clothes. Some of them do look frumpy. Or, If it's something I think my mother would wear--she died a few years ago at 85 and always looked great, I don't buy it. Mom never wore Christmas sweaters.

I've had mostly good luck with Lauren by Ralph Lauren petites other than the capris from this summer that were so thin they ripped. Yes, I realize capris can be considered frumpy but I don't care. It is too hot here to wear long pants, and I always wear them with sandals. I also have Bermuda shorts that look great and more professional.

I think that people who dress sloppily can be endearing at times! Like Bill Murray. Or people in real life who drop their kids off in pajama pants and a baseball cap. People who can sometimes relax and let go of the high image they have of themselves. I don't mean I think it's okay to wear jeans to a wedding or anything like that. But I try not to get a pruney expression on my face when I see or think about people who aren't dressed "properly" or look frumpy.

Part of the problem is, for a woman of my age (late 50s), keeping up to date. When I was young, I consumed glamour and seventeen mag. When I was a young adult, I was into soaps and they helped keep my eye up to date for fashion and decor. But now, for me, the fashion mags like Elle and Vogue are way out there, the other mags are way too young, and I struggle to find something that is age appropriate, wearable for my casual lifestyle and yet modern. It is so easy at this stage of life to get into a rut. For 10 years, I did have Stacy & Clinton to watch to help me redesign my wardrobe to include dark washed jeans and fitted jackets and delete the shoulder pads and mom jeans, but they're gone now too.

I'm really open to suggestions as to what sources anyone uses to keep their eye up to date. If I don't keep updating my eye, then a shopping trip yields more of the same old same old and I'm back to a frumptastic rut. The out of date thing, just like the wrinkles in my skin, seems to happen without effort or even noticing until all of a sudden, What Happened!!???!!

Annie,
In Style magazine is one that I like. It has a wide range of looks for women. Not just for the young.

I also recommend looking at catalogs/websites that are geared to women somewhat younger, like J Crew and Ann Taylor, to see how things are styled, colors, lengths, and what accessories are working with different styles.

Annie, what happens is that time marches on despite us! LOL We have to make an effort to stay current with what is new.

Here are some links I have that may give you some ideas of what is being shown for 2014. I like to look at fashion blogs and mid/highish end online stores to see what will be available. Does not mean I will find these in the stores available to me tho. One of my problems with shopping is that I live in a rural area and there is only one local clothing shop that has brands and styles I like. Fortunately the owner of this shop brings in cutting edge styles, in fact sometimes too much so for me but I can often find fashionable things I like there. I don`t shop online so must often shop when I travel. Very limiting.

Some things I've found on the "fashion trends for spring 2014" sites that I like and may add to my closet:

Fringe
Cowgirl - I live in cowboy country so will easily be able to find a decorative western belt
Lace - still seen but has also morphed into computer generated cut-out fabric
Duster - haven't had one for years but these are very handy to add to an outfit. I've missed one I had to give away as it was too large.
Maxi skirts - since I no longer feel comfortable in mini-skirts I'm hoping to see more of these

Fashion blogs and some of the shops I look at:

http://theviviennefiles.blogspot.ca/

http://fashionista.com/2010/05/most-influential-personal-style-bloggers/2/

http://youlookfab.com/

http://youlookfab.com/2014/01/07/defining-edgy-style/

http://www.nygard.com/peter-nygard-clothing/whats-new-arrivals/

http://www.lechateau.com/style/browse/subcategoryBanner.jsp?categoryId=catwfr10020&q_pageSize=30&viewAll=true

http://www.freepeople.com/whats-new/

http://www.jjill.com/jjillonline/index.aspx

Interesting article about our choices: http://www.lilikoiclothing.com/blog/2014/01/buy-fewer-things-buy-better-things-our-lilikoi-new-years-resolutions/

I'm surprised to see that tunics, slim pants, uneven hemlines on tunics and skirts are still being shown as I've been wearing these for several years now. That's a good thing as I find it's a comfortable Bohemian way to dress.

I want to be like you, Luckygal, at that age!
What strikes me most is that at any age, it does take some effort researching what is current. I do so as it helps me determine what to buy or not as I don't to purchase items that will be out the following year...but, like you, many of the pure classics makes me feel quite frumpy unless I wildly update.

I often look at older women to figure out why some look great/youthful and others don't.
Weight is a big issue as always!, neither too heavy or too thin which is just as problematic, but not over dressing... and not being wildly trendy/too young seems to be the ticket. With discernment, I think popular youthful trends can be adapted to still be flattering to an older persons body.

All those clothing items that are disdained are often the secret to looking younger.
I hope now, and as I age , I embrace ( as much as I want to to) the fashion elements that are youthful without being stuck in a time warp.
It took awhile for non pinks, corals and red nail polishes to become mainstream, but now, blacks, greens, blues, etc. are very commonplace yet fashion forward.

Thanks for all the links and suggestions...I will definitely be checking them out. Funny thing, my GFs love j Jill, but I don't seem to find anything there...I do have better luck with Ann Taylor.

luckygal - when you said "Before anyone states they don't have time as busy mothers to shower and dress nicely I will state that I can shower, wash my hair, dry my hair, put on moisturizer and basic make-up, and get dressed in 10 minutes.", did you mean you can do ALL that in 10 minutes?????

Edited to add: Or did you mean after you shower, etc., you can get dressed in 10 minutes?

This post was edited by bac717 on Sat, Jan 11, 14 at 22:02

"However, on the other thread it did disturb me that many posters related how they went out looking frumpy, even with bed hair and a cap slapped on top! "

DH and I have planned to go to the local mall tomorrow, right when the doors open, to go exercise walking. From there, we'll head to the do it yourself car wash and wash the vehicles ourselves. Then we'll stop in Panera for coffee.

THEN we'll go home and shower and dress for the day!!! At least I won't have to waste time removing a cap....because my bed hair won't be covered:)

I think I am pretty frumpy, and I am fine with it. I've dressed like I was an elderly librarian since I was in my 20's. Frumpy cardigan,A-line skirt, clompy shoes and a circle pin, that's me.

I am still in my 40's and often see women my age wearing low-rise jeans, spike-heeled boots and with soap-opera actress hair. It always catches me off guard--oh, I could be wearing THAT? I think they look great--but I wouldn't feel like "me" in those clothes.

One of the happy milestones of my life came the day the eye doctor told me to get reading glasses--I had ALWAYS wanted glasses on a chain, and finally I had a reason to wear them.

At the same time, I do keep up with my hair, never leave the house without it 'done', plus moisturizer, mascara and lipstick. So I'm not disheveled, just frumpy!

Why Bother?

To me it is a matter of being seen as employable, professional, and up to date and in touch with current reality.

My boss is 30, the other co-worker in my department is 24, and the vice president of our company is 35. So yes, at 49 I don't want to be seen as too old to keep up. Not being frumpy helps me appear engaged in the world around me.

This post was edited by juliekcmo on Sun, Jan 12, 14 at 8:52

Guess what julie, if you don't have the right skills, you could be straight out of Vogue and not be able to keep up.

Bac717, I mean I can shower, wash my hair, dry my hair, put on moisturizer and basic make-up, and get dressed (and be out the door) in 10 minutes.

However, I have short hair which is faster to wash, rinse, and blow-dry and a good haircut that looks presentable when treated that way. I also only use untinted moisturizer, blush, and tinted lipbalm so that's very quick to do. Years ago when I worked and did this every day I had my lashes dyed so didn't miss mascara. I also, since I can be slow deciding what to wear always plan every detail of what I will wear and have it all hanging together so all I have to do is throw on my clothes.

Now that I'm retired I seldom need to do that altho recently forgot a meeting until 20 minutes before it was due to start. Since town is a 10 minute drive and I had been out gardening and was grubby I really needed to rush and was one of the first to arrive with a minute to spare! Fortunately it was summer so not as many clothes to put on as would be in winter. Every second counts when one needs to do this.

Everyone is different with their requirements but I've learned that one of mine is to be clean and reasonably well-turned out in public. I know there have been many studies done on 'first appearances' and how important they are. Perhaps it's part of my need to control that I want my appearance to be something I don't have to think about when I have other things to do.

I'm quite low-maintenance and have good skin so this wouldn't work for anyone who needed to spend 20 minutes on their make-up.

I'm one of those people who can't be ready in 10 minutes, no way and I'm not even high maintenance. It's my hair that is time consuming. Takes me more than 10 minutes just to dry my hair. My hair is only shoulder length but it is very thick and coarse. I cannot let it air dry b/c of its texture...it just gets really frizzy if I do that. I have to dry it completely, which takes more than 10 minutes, then depending on how straight I'm able to dry it, sometimes I also use a flat iron on it. I don't wear a lot of makeup so that part doesn't take long. I honestly can't imagine being able to shower, dress, do hair and make up in 10 minutes. Showering alone (shaving, washing hair/face/body) takes more than 5 minutes.

As far as being a busy mother with no time to shower, yes, I do mean that. However, if I know I'm going somewhere out in public where I'm going to see people, I will drop something in order to shower/be presentable. But there have been times when I've gone to the gym, run an errand on the way home, then come home and spent the day cleaning, doing laundry, prepping dinner for that night, etc and along the way purposely decided NOT to shower (why, if I know I'm cleaning bathrooms,etc all day) yet still run into school to pick my 8 y/o from an after school activity. While I generally *dont* like to run into school looking like that, still in my gym clothes, I'm not going to waste that time showering simply b/c I'm going to see people when I run into school for five minutes. Knowing I can use that 30 minutes to finish another load of laundry, which, with four kids is never-ending, is more important to me than my friends/acquaintances seeing me looking not 100% put together.

However, I don't make a habit of doing that. I prefer to look more presentable but sometimes it doesn't necessarily make sense.

I run regularly with several women in the mornings after we drop our kids at school. One of the women is one I didn't know before being introduced to her by a friend in common when she showed up to run with us. Our kids were at the same school, but I'd never met her. I only ever saw her for months in the morning for our runs, in running clothes and hair pulled back in a tight ponytail. Much later in the year, at an evening school event, I heard someone yell my name and when I looked over, this beautiful woman was waving at me. It took me a moment to recognize her...she looked so completely different with her hair down and styled, make up and nice clothes on. I couldn't believe it was the same woman! She never looked bad w/o makeup, etc, but the difference when she actually put herself together was amazing. Alas, I'm not one of those women who can completely change her appearance with a bit of makeup!

I agree that looking good does not make up for lack of skill or ability.

And being over-dressed or over-focused on appearance will read as shallow and fake.

I only meant to acknowledge that in order to be taken seriously, one usually needs to both be able to be successful, and to seem have the ability to be successful.

And I do think that dressing in a non-distracting but pulled together manner helps to project that to others.

At work we used to talk about the PIE model...that to be successful you needed to excel in performance, image and exposure. You could argue about how important each of those are, but it was a given that to get into our firm, you had to perform at a high level, so what would distinguish you would be how you look and who knew who you were and what you did.

Our driveway has turned into a bobsled course. Solid ice from top to bottom and no amount of ice-melt or gravel was making headway. My car could not make it up the drive without sliding back down (sideways!). Not fun. So, long story short, getting to work has been a challenge over the weekend.

Here's the frump part. My husband's car gets out fine and he dropped me off at work yesterday. We had left the house extra early and I was frazzled and tired. I had showered but had done nothing with my makeup figuring I would fix myself up when I got to work. Once I was at work I went to grab my make up bag out of my purse and my stomach dropped when I realized I had left it at home.

I was surprised how distressed that made me! I gave myself a pep talk telling myself that no one would notice. It's not like I even wear a lot of make up. But I felt so frumpy and unfinished all day. It definitely gave me a new perspective of how I view myself. I don't think I want to analyze it too deeply!

Deedee, it's true. just that touch of make up makes a difference. Maybe keep a few things in a drawer at work so you can always be prepared.
It's funny because today i almost went off to work without make up. My routine was a bit different so I think I was thrown off.