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Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Posted by rdwright (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 29, 07 at 2:42

I did a search and came up empty. If this has already been discussed, please pass along a link. Otherwise, please weigh in on your opinions. Durability, non-stick, evenness, etc. Thanks very much.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Off the top of my head, ScanPan has received some good word. Swiss Diamond, on the other hand, has not...

Consumer fraud alert: Swiss Diamond non-stick cookware made with same chemical as Teflon

My advice: Just buy cheaper teflon pans, don't abuse them on high heat, and replace them more frequently. That's what I do.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Just got a Scanpan recently (9.5" fry pan/skillet specially priced much less than the 8"). Check out the cookware sale thread over in the Kitchens forum--I mentioned them ina post there.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Worst thing I ever bought was a Scanpan. After about one week of gentle use the interior lost its non-stick properties. I used plastic utinsils and it still got ruined! It actually seemed food stuck worse than other types of pans. The outside of the pan turned brown and burnt with it's first use. Then the interior flaked off and that is when I tossed it.

The gourmet kitchen store compleley duped me on this pan when I bought it. They told lies. I was suspicious of their claims on this pan and did not fall for it hook line and sinker but "they got me". I bought the pan in the late Eighties and there was no Internet to seek out info and protect the consumer back then.

Here is what the Scanpan website says:
SCANPAN Classic and SCANPAN Professional feature a patented nonstick surface that is created by firing a ceramic-titanium compound into the pan at 36,000 F and twice the speed of sound. The ceramic-titanium particles become one with the pan at that point. A subsequent application of a specially formulated PTFE provides the nonstick effect.

And:

PTFE (short for polytetrafluoroethylene) is the base compound for any and all nonstick coatings. PTFE provides the food release. The "SCANPAN formula" works with the patented ceramic-titanium surface construction to provide long lasting nonstick performance. This PTFE is safe to use for food preparation and is FDA approved. Only if the pan is accidentally overheated or cooked dry could temperatures be reached that may cause the PTFE portion to break down and emit fumes that have been known to be harmful to exotic birds, due to their extra sensitive respiratory system.

And:

SCANPAN Cookware is PFOA free.

(This is how they try to confuse the buyer. ALL non-stick pans are PFOA free!)

And:

The ceramic-titanium compound is applied to the inside cooking surface only, where it counts. The outside is painted with a "nonstick compound" for easy cleaning. Do not use metal scouring pads or similar on this outside, they would leave marks!


DO NOT BUY SCANPAN.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scanpan Website FAQs


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Well, there you go. I don't a ScanPan, or any other high-priced non-stick cookware.

My advice above stands: Buy cheap teflon cookware and replace it more often.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

FWIW, Scanpan has changed the pan within the last few years (I know cleaning instructions have been changed for one thing), so maybe they hold up better now?

Our friend who works in the cooking store where we got ours has the same one we got and he said they use it just about every day. It goes in the dishwasher, oven (maybe under the broiler too?) and works beautifully. He loves his and would have told me to stay away from it if he felt otherwise about his.

We really only use a NS pan to make DH some scrambled eggs on the weekend, the rare omelette, or even rarer dish or recipe calling for a NS pan, so I anticipate it should hold up okay under such minimal use in our household.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

I bought a Scanpan 9" frypan about 2 years ago. I have been very happy with it. If you look at it right now, it looks just like the day I bought it. I like it better than cheap Teflon pans I've bought from BedBath&Beyond. Also, some on this forum recommend that you should buy a cheap Teflon pan with the knowledge you'll be throwing it away in a year or two. But, you know, our landfills are full enough. Can we cut back on the easy throwaways please? Buy good quality instead. I also have an All-Clad 12" non-stick fry pan. It's quite good, and I expect I will be using it for years. Between my Scanpan and my All-Clad non-stick frypans, it's a tossup over which one is better. They're different sizes so I use them differently, but I would recommend either one.

(I don't think the Bud WI review of a Scanpan from the eighties (20 years ago!) is a valid review. People should chime in who have bought them recently.)


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

"Also, some on this forum recommend that you should buy a cheap Teflon pan with the knowledge you'll be throwing it away in a year or two. But, you know, our landfills are full enough. Can we cut back on the easy throwaways please? Buy good quality instead."

There you go--fill up our landfills up with expensive throwaways, not with cheap ones!

When you heat PTFE beyond a certain temperature, it starts to break down. That's the nature of the material. It doesn't matter if the pan is a $10 T-FAL or a $200 All Clad, PTFE is PTFE. Once you overheat the pan, it's on its way to becoming landfill fodder. There is currently no way to make "higher-quality" PTFE that doesn't break down. Just as water boils at 212 F, so PTFE breaks down at its breakdown temperature.

So get the cheap pan, because you're going to be throwing it away in a few years. It doesn't matter how much you pay for it.

(Exception: The Demeyere Controlinduc pans on induction cooktops are a whole different ballgame. But that's a subject for a different thread.)


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

What's all this jibber jabber 'bout landfills?! Did I say throw 'em in the trash? No, I said "replace" them. In my area, they accept waste like old teflon pans for recycling. (It is just aluminum and plastic, after all...)

And Solar summed it pretty well: Don't fool yourself into thinking your $200 teflon pan is going to last any longer than my $10 pan. Same basic material, same basic properties.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

I think more than one of the expensive non-stick lines, including Demeyere use diamond dust or ceramic material to keep the wear down on the non-stick. Some claim 10 year warranties. This of course is not about overheating- just everyday wear and tear.

I prefer the medium cheap 15-30 dollar variety that has a disc bottom for non-stick egg/pancake pan. No hot spots or warping. Macy's on sale.

Solar, I love those Demeyere pro-line frypans, I saw a 9.5 " "Atlantis" floor model with the silvinox for $111. at my local Sur la Table.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Trouble is every manufacturer's opinion of "over heating" is different from mine.

ScanPans haven't lasted longer than anything else for me. However, I do like the design of their 10" skillet...really works exceptionally well for me. I keep sending them back and they keep sending me new ones. Shipping still costs me 15-20 per event, but I keep doing it and they keep doing it.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

I have used a complete scanpan classic set for years. I too put them in the dishwasher. They work great. I did have one pan in which the coating bubbled and peeled off in two tiny spots. I returned the pan and they replaced it for free. They paid shipping both ways. Scanpan has a lifetime warrantee. With that kind of warrantee, I don't know why someone would throw the pan away.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

ScanPan is made from PTFE which is a known carcinogen. You'd be crazy to cook food on that surface, let alone touch the pan. Buy a pure titanium coated aluminum pan that contains no synthetic PTFE or other nonstick compound. Or buy Stainless Steel cookware, ceramic coated steel (Le Creuset). But don't give yourself cancer with ScanPan products. That's just crazy.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

"But don't give yourself cancer with ScanPan products."

No, that statement is just crazy...


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Glenngarden - The Scanpan Classic and Scanpan Professional lines have the ceramic titanium nonstick surface you are recommending. Furthermore, EVERY pan that cites a titanium surface, regardless of manufacturer, has a titanium layer to make the surface harder, AND to protect the non-stick coating of the pan. That non-stick coating is PTFE. Your recommendation of a "pure titanium coated aluminum pan that contains no synthetic PTFE" does not exist. Various manufacturers hype the titanium coating, but don't mention that the titanium coating is a ceramic-titanium foundation under PTFE. Don't be gullible.

I myself have a Scanpan fry pan, and think it's the best non-stick fry pan I have ever owned. Scanpan addresses head-on the whole PTFE thing on its website, which I've linked below. You can decide for yourself whether you think PTFE-containing pans are dangerous, but at least you'll know that other manufacturers, using titanium surfaces, also use PTFE, and may have worse manufacturing controls than the highly-regarded Scanpan. At least Scanpan is open and direct about it; those other manufacturers citing their titanium non-stick surfaces are suspect, given their obfuscation of the facts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scanpan FAQ's page


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

AkChicago: You need to learn about the titanium cookware that's currently available. Cookware exists that is made from pure titanium with no PTFE, Teflon, or polymer of any type. Why would you use a pot that is made from a carcinogen like PTFE? That's just crazy. Here's the Eurolux product specs:

THE SURFACE
Eurolux has the worlds first carbon fibre reinforced non stick surface.This Swiss made surface is internationally exclusive to Eurolux cookware. The natural carbon fibre with excellent non stick abilities is up to 10 times
stronger than steel and heat resistant up to 1200C.

THE PROCESS
The titanium/ceramic surface is fused into the alloy base at 3000C.
The carbon fibre, non stick surface is sintered into the titanium ceramic surface at 420C.
Features:
- dishwasher safe
- Swiss made surface
- super hard titanium ceramic surface
- scratch and corrosion resistant
- safe for metal spatulas
- High temperature resistant
- complies with food regulations
- exceptionally durable non stick surface

As you can see, the Eurolux can handle 1200C. PTFE can handle about 200 Deg. C before giving off deadly fumes. You'd be crazy to use a ScanPan PTFE coated pot. That's like adding poison to every dish you cook. Notice the Eurolux has no polymers.

Also, the Eurolux is made in Germany. ScanPan is made in China. So if the PTFE poison doesn't kill you, then probably you're getting lead contamination from their ScanPan pots.

Sure, Eurolux costs more than cheaply made and carcinogenic ScanPan, but is there really a pricetag on health? Now as far as performance is concerned, I've had my Eurolox frypan for about a week. I gave it the most difficult nonstick test. I cracked four sunnyside up eggs into the pot. Used a litte virgin olive oil to coat the pan. Cooked them for about 10 minutes. And then I leaned the pot over and the four eggs just slid out, yolk intact! No egg residue remained in the pot. The Eurolux, is really a great pot, healthy, safe, and not that heavy, like my Le Creuset Ceramic coated iron.

I think the Eurolux is the best. ScanPan is crap and hazardous to your health. The choice of which to use is easy! Don't you think?

Here is a link that might be useful: Eurolux


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

I wish Eurolux could be the answer to Glenngarden's concerns, unfortunately it is not. According to the Eurolux website, the pans' non-stick properties are the result of "high-tech titanium ceramic carbon fibre surface". The PTFE that Glenngarden is railing against is part of a chemical family called Perfluorochemicals or PFC's. PFC's is a chemical family consisting of a carbon backbone surrounded by fluorine. The carbon fibres referred to by Eurolux fall under the same chemical family of PFC, as does PTFE.

It is the breakdown products of this PFC family that are the current public health concern. PTFE is just one member of that PFC family. Breakdown products are PFOA and the identical chemical C8 (meaning 8 carbons). The real question for Eurolux is not whether their pan has PTFE, but rather if the pan has any PFC family chemical, specifically those carbon fibres they refer to.

I enjoy using a non-stick pan, mostly for eggs and fish. But I will not overheat the pan nor cook dry at such temperatures that could cause the PFC chemical (regardless of manufacturer) to break down and emit fumes. I would do the same if I owned a Eurolux pan.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

AkChicago, the temperature rating of the Eurolux says it all. It is heat resistant to 1200 deg. C. and the surface is ten times stronger than steel. PTFE breaks down at 500 deg. F. You certainly know the conversion of Fahrenheit to Celcius. C = 5/9 x(F-32). So 500F = 260C. And really we know that PTFE starts to kill birds at much lower temperatures.

So Eurolux cookware surface is rated for 1200 Deg. C.
ScanPan pan surface is rated for 260 Deg. C at best. Higher than that it certainly kills the birds. If it kills the birds do you want to use it?

As you correctly point out, PTFE is a Flourocarbon: Poly Tetra Flouro Ethylene. Notice the Flourine molecule that's in PTFE. Eurolux doesn't use Flourine molecules. Hey, I think Flourine gas is a quick killer, too. And you should not drink Flouride water or use flouride containing toothpaste either. Flourides are known to cause cancer, too. If you want to find Flouride free toothpaste, just visit your neighborhood healthfood store, Whole Foods, etc.

Carbon is an element, no 12 on the Periodic table. Humans are made from carbon compounds. Diamonds are made from pure carbon depending on the crystal structure. Diamonds are the hardest substance and have the highest melting temperature. Nothing unhealthy about carbon. Lead is also made of carbon, and it's not healthy. But the temperature rating of the Eurolux tells you that the carbon fibers are not lead! However, many carbon containing polymeric compounds are deadly. PTFE/Teflon is known to cause cancer in rodents. Carbon doesn't cause cancer. We are made of carbon. Carbon is healthy. PTFE is a carcinogen. Eurolux is heat resistant to 1200 Deg. C. Scanpan fumes at around 200 deg. C, well below frying temperatures.

If you want to eat healthy, or remove at least one source of carcinogen in your life, stay far away from any PTFE pot or pan. Stay away from ScanPan carcinogenic PTFE pots and pans. Use something healthier.

If you don't want to spend the money (Eurolux is expensive), then use high quality stainless steel. Stainless steel is a healthy cooking surface, non carcinogenic, but the eggs won't slip off the pan. You will have to scrub for 10 minutes. But I'd rather scrub for ten minutes, get some exercise in the process, than get cancer with ScanPan. Wouldn't you?


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

Akchicago, So now you understand how ScanPan is made from carcinogenic PTFE and Eurolux is not. That's why Eurolux is heat resistant to 1200 Deg. C, while ScanPan is dangerous at even 200 Deg. C. Don't worry about being wrong. Now you have the information to live healthy! Here are some other references on the dangers of PTFE:

Teflon trouble sticking to DuPont
Chemical used in coating may be making people sick
Agency claims company withheld evidence of concerns
(August 9, 2004)

DuPont's troubled chemical
C-8 is widespread in the environment. How did it get there, and should we be worried?

E.P.A. Says It Will Fine DuPont for Holding Back Test Results

Hearth & Home: Watched Pots
It's not just what you cook, it's what you cook in - by Elizabeth Larsen

Teflon linked to birth defects and illness

Teflon Chemicals are a Threat to Health - Dr. Mercola

Teflon questions and Eliminate the use of Teflon

Teflon linked to birth defects and illness; but is it safe to use in cooking?
Dupont is facing new charges from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency that it concealed research showing that pregnant workers were passing on Teflon chemicals to their unborn children. The EPA has also accused Dupont of failing to report evidence that the chemicals used to manufacture Teflon had contaminated water supplies affecting 12,000 people in the local area. Many of those affected families are suing Dupont.

Teflon's sticky situation - By Chris Summers - BBC News Online
It's on saucepans, clothing, even buildings, but now Teflon - the famed non-stick chemical - is at the centre of a slippery controversy about cancer and birth defects.

DuPont has hidden harmful effects of Teflon for 50 years

U.S. Officials Accuse DuPont of Concealing Teflon Ingredient's Health Risk

Toxic Gore-tex
Skip the gory Gore-tex and wander winter wrapped in warm, green alternatives

Teflon Chemical in Drinking Water Costs DuPont $107 Million

More Troubles With Teflon Toxicity

Board: Teflon Cancer Risks Downplayed
By RANDALL CHASE - The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 28, 2005; 9:50 PM
DOVER, Del. -- A controversial chemical used by DuPont to make the nonstick substance Teflon poses more of a cancer risk than indicated in a draft assessment by the Environmental Protection Agency, an independent review board has found. The EPA stated earlier this year that its draft risk assessment of perfluorooctanoic acid and its salts found "suggestive evidence" of potential human carcinogenicity, based on animal studies. In a draft report released Monday, the majority of members on an EPA scientific advisory board that reviewed the agency's report concluded that PFOA, also known as C-8, is "likely" to be carcinogenic to humans, and that the EPA should conduct cancer risk assessments for a variety of tumors found in mice and rats.

Teflon firm faces fresh lawsuit
BBC News, 19 July 2005 - US chemicals giant DuPont is facing a lawsuit accusing the company of failing to warn consumers about the health hazards of Teflon non-stick coatings. Two Florida law firms said they were filing the suit on behalf of 14 people who bought and used Teflon cookware. DuPont denied the claims, stating its products were safe and has vowed to vigorously defend itself. Plaintiffs want DuPont to spend $5bn to replace million of people's pots and pans and to issue Teflon warnings. They also want a fund to be created for medical monitoring of people who bought Teflon products.

CONSUMERS BEWARE: TEFLON CAN GIVE YOU CANCER
After ignoring numerous warnings from independent scientists for years, the "nonstick" chemical used in Teflon has now officially been categorized as a "likely carcinogen" by the U.S. government's Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). EPA scientists found four different types of tumors in lab animals exposed to the chemical. The agency announced it plans to collect millions of dollars in fines from DuPont, the maker of Teflon, for concealing studies indicating related health and environmental risks for over two decades.

Teflon May Be Just The Tip Of the Iceberg...

DuPont Warned Long Ago About Teflon in Paper Products

DuPont Pays Heavy Price For Teflon Cover-Up
DuPont's cover-up over allegations it failed to reveal the dangers of perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) -- the chemical used to make Teflon -- reached closure when the company and the EPA agreed to a settlement that could amount to more than $300 million in civil fines.

EPA Fines Dupont for Poisoning Consumers with Teflon Cookware
From: Environment News Service

That's enough information for anyone to stay far away from ScanPan carcinogenic pots and pans. It takes an intelligent person to admit they're wrong, but it takes even greater intelligence to change your ways. Throw away your carcinogenic Scanpan pots and pans. Buy healthy cookeware like Eurolux, Le Creuset, HealthCraft, etc. So you're wrong! At least you can start to live and eat healthy now!
Now you won't have to absorb any more PTFE into your body either through fumes or particles that are scraped off the ScanPan.

Good Luck, AkChicago.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

I am convinced. Where can you buy Eurolux titanium cookware?


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Eurolux - issues

I purchased a large Eurolux pan with glass lid.
It worked wonderfully for a few months.
I put tried to roast a chicken at 170 degrees, the lid exploded and ruined my meal. Eurolux asked for $12 to replace the lid.
I noticed when I cook something, the next time I cook I can smell the previous food. I wash it many times and clean it with bicarb soda, but the smell is still there.
Food poisoning and food tainting is a concern. The pan is now nearly a year old and it has lost it's non stick ability, even when sprayed with oil. It has black stains on it when food sticks on it.
I have contacted Eurolux but their warranty seems to exclude the lid and the surface.
The price charge for Eurolux pans vs cheaper pans?
The Eurolux is aluminium, same as the cheaper ones, they may not buckle but the non stick ability was the reason I bought it.
I have no confidence in the lid in case it would explode again, so not worth buying another.
I loved the pan when it worked, now it's my first choice against my other pans, it is easier to clean and holds heat.
Now that you have been informed, I will leave you to decide!


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Eurolux - not worth the money

I bought a Eurolux fry pan, it was exy
It cooked ok for about 8 months
After that food started to stick
Intersting the other person mentioned about when you cook on it and the food you cooked last time smelt
Cooking pancakes after fish is euukk!
No matter how many times I washed and scrubbed the food seemed to be in the cracks and crevices and was smelt when the pan got warm
It scratches even using wood and plastic spatulas
Maybe food cooks into them and wont come out with washing
Its up to you if you buy one I was sorry I did!


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Eurolux - No warranty, warranty

Just an update of my Eurolux pan ....

I contacted Eurolux regarding the pan losing it's non-stick ability and the exploding lid

The pan was under half way through the two year warranty period
I forwarded the pan and paperwork issued to me at Garden Australia Show, Brisbane where it was purchased

Eurolux would only replace the pan if I paid half of the price of a new pan
So much for warranty!
The new pan does not work on my induction hotplate
On the Eurolux website, it says it's an induction pan
Most would assume that means 'induction' it would work on an induction hotplate, it doesn't

The new pan is also showing scratch marks even though I only use plastic utensils and it's only used occasionally
I can only use the Eurolux pan in the oven, minus the lid
I have no confidence in the lid after the last exploded over an expensive meal!
The new pan also retains residue/odours after cooking, even after many washes in hot soapy water and washed with microfibre cloths

A while ago I received an email from Eurolux telling me I must remove my post or further action would be taken
I have not defamed Eurolux in any way, just reported my experience with a Eurolux pan
I forwarded the email to Garden Web


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Eurolux is the best

I cook in Eurolux since 2003, to me they are the best pots and pans available.Today own 7 different Pots an pans from them and all of them work without any probs. Some of them have a few marks, nothing is peeling, blistering or sticks. The surface is fantastic. I did not have problem using them in the oven ever or issues with cleaning. I must say, look after them very well.
Great Product big thanks to Eurolux.

Gilian


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

We have owned both Scan Pan and Swiss Diamond. We have been extremely disappointed in both.
The Scan Pan actually started to lose it's coating as if someone had stood it up and thrown rocks at it. That was only after one or two years.
The Swiss Diamond was very good in the first year but now the non-stick feature just doesn't work all that great anymore. We have two and we bought one for the MIL. The handle broke on hers in such a way that it was not able to be replaced. She is 80 and certainly didn't mistreat it.
It was just too much effort to try and get it replaced.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

There is no such thing as ANY non stick cookware that will last more than 5 years, PERIOD.
I have had both Scanpan and Swiss Diamond, Swiss Diamond a bit better but still I have sent in one pot to be replaced which they did with no problems and cost about $11 my cost in shipping. That was a year or so ago.
I now have 2 more that desperately need to be replaced also just have yet to send them in.
I honestly don't really care if they replace them or not.

I am replacing all my pots with LeCruset type cookware.
I bought a LeCruset 3 3/4 qt Multipot which has a 10" frying pan as the lid cost was $200. Works great and is virtually as nonstick as ANY nonstick is especially after about a year of use on the nonstick. These pots however will last the rest of my life. I am also going to pick up a LeCruset 2 1/2Qt multipot for $170.00

I also picked up a Kirkland (Costco) 8Qt Oval roaster, exactly the same as the LeCruset which for that size is around $400, I bought it for $79 it is Made in France and from the inside color I think is probably made by Staub.

Frying pans are cast iron one 12", two 10" and one of those 10" pans in my grandmothers which is at least 100 years old.
I also have a 14x23" Carbon Steel griddle, all the cast iron and carbon steel is 100% nonstick and will only improve with age.
ALL nonstick is manure, don't waste your money.
Buy cast iron, carbon steel and enameled cast iron pots.

Wish I would have done that about 30 years ago.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

For non-stick I prefer Circulon. I have carpal tunnel and some residual after-effects from frozen shoulder syndrome, so I don't care for cast-iron.

If you're terrified of PTFE, don't eat anything that's been fried or sauteed in a restaurant. Most kitchens use teflon-coated aluminum fry pans.


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RE: Swiss Diamond vs. Scanpan

I have yet to ever see any professional kitchen use any non stick cookware. they usually use either plain old aluminum or stainless steel. Nonstick cookware would last about a month in a professional kitchen.

And my DeBuyer Carbon Steel pans weigh about the same as my Scanpan skillet, If there is any weight difference it is not noticeable. My Scanpan is about 9 years old and really DIED 4+ years ago, I only use it now just to do RiceARoni in it, just couldn't bring myself to throw it away after spending like $125 on it.
The Debuyer is 5 years old and better today than it was when new and getting better every year and just as nonstick today as the Scanpan was when new.

This post was edited by Nunyabiz1 on Mon, Dec 10, 12 at 13:10


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