In general I prefer Japanese made/Japanese style knives except when it comes to dismembering poultry,wacking off the head of a fish or cutting through frozen food. Thin Japanese blades are prone to chipping,bending, or breaking in these applications.

For that you want a chinese cleaver or german broad sword:)

I don't see a cleaver on your list so a 9" Wusthof carving can be your go to heavy duty knife.

For the pairing I would go with Miyabi. Because knife geeks hate Henckels; Miyabis can be had for a good price because they are made by Henckels Japanese affiliate.

When I purchased my bread knife a few years ago I got a Victorinox. Cooks Illustrated top pick. Cheap too,at least for the fibrox handle version. But if you just don't like the aesthetics of Victorinox then buy based on aesthetics. In terms of performance, I think the Miyabi and Wusthof are the same.

You are right deegeaux , Macy's carries the 600S which is Japanese style, but German steel. So should I go with the Miyabi and get Wusthof cleaver ?

To begin with, Miyabi makes four different lines, each using a different blade steel. Which one does Macy's carry?

I think this is a bit academic since any Miyabi is better than any Wusthof IMO for all the applications except the ones listed in my first post.

But as you would expect Macy's carries the least expensive more Western/German Miyabi of the line.

It has soft German steel blade made in Japan in a thinner Japanes style with more acute edge angles.

It has the Japanese version of a Western handle. Same basic shape but not as thick. The balance is not so shifted to the handle. Made of molded Amboyna wood.

lillo,

If you feel comfortable with the Wusthof cleaver as your heavy duty knife that would be a great set with the Miyabi/Shun knives.

Deegeaux would the Shun Nakiri 5.5" knife sturdy enough to cut through poultry or frozen food ?. I see that C&B has it on sale, and I really love the look and feel of the Shuns .

Lillo,

The Nakiri is designed to slice,dice,and mince vegetables.

If it strikes a poultry bone with enough force in can chip or worse. These are expensive repairs.

Shun makes a Chinese cleaver. $175

Here is a link that might be useful: Shun Chinese Cleaver

Every Shun you listed as already owning is between 5-6". I would advise considering filling that out on either side -- like maybe two more knives instead of a set. Already having the Shuns, I'm thinking you may not be happy with the lower-level sets you're considering. Most folks don't need a "set" anyway. Three or four really good knives will handle everything except for strange or all-day-repetitive chores. Might want to save up for a couple more good ones instead of lower quality set.

Just a thought.

I agree with D about cleavers. If you're actually intending to whack bones and frozen foods, go with heftier cleaver with softer steel and larger blade-angle.

Thks everybody, you have convinced me to stay with the Shuns. I think I will get now a 3.5" parer and another knife on the larger size , and then I will wait to get the rest as they go on sale. On the larger size I am in between getting the offset bread one, the carving 9" or the 8" western style chef's knife( they say in the description that I can use it as cleaver, going through bones or crab shells). Which one do you think I should get know considering what I already have.

FWIW, here is review I recently posted at Amazon retail site. Mentions my two favorite 8" chef's knives.

5.0 out of 5 stars Surprised -- best I've encountered, March 16, 2011
By asolo - See all my reviews
This review is from: MAC MTH-80 8" Chef's Knife w/ Dimples
Well, this was a surprise. I previously heaped praises upon new Shun Elite 8" chef's knife which de-throned my previous well-maintained Henckel's and which I had regarded as my new standard but this one...whoa!

The Shun had quickly become my new standard (65-66 Rockwell and all that) but this one is superior. Thinner, sharper, better-feeling handle. Steel is not as hard (about Rockwell 60...which is still pretty darned hard) but is thinner and lighter. I bought it because of my astonishment with Mac's 6 1/2" Santoku which is the best Santoku I've yet encountered. My enthusiasm continues. Everything feels right. It just glides. Not too big; not too small; sharp, hard, and well-balanced; wide but not too-wide blade; a little flex but not too much...just about right. The thing just works.

And it's not just me. It works for everybody. The other family-folks who frequently share my kitchen all have the same opinion. The Mac 8" chef's and 6 1/2 Santoku are the knives everyone goes to. No free sharpening service like the Shuns but I can handle the maintenance chores.....if/when they arrive. I remain a great Shun Elite fan....but this knife is better. I think so and everyone who shares my prep-duties thinks so.

FYI....below is link to review of many chef's knives.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chef's knives review

Thank you Asolo for all the info. Now to my second most important question . How do I maintain these beautiful knives and keep them sharp without damaging them. The serrated and non serrated edges , considering that I have never sharpened a knife before, and I do not want something very complicated as I read on most of the sites that I have to sharpen them at a certain angle ( I do not know even how to measure that angle )using wet stones or hone roads ( steel or ceramic ). I just want the basic easy way to maintain them for the longest time possible, until they need professional sharpening.Thank you

You will want two items:

1) Shun DM0750 Sharpening Steel

2) Mac 10.5" Black Ceramic Honing Rod - SRB-103

"Sharpening" is the wrong word, of course. This is a honing steel -- realigns the edge. Honing steels are quite common. However, the harder blade steels used in the knives you've chosen won't respond well to most of them. Get the Shun sharpening steel -- it's made specifically to work easily and well with these blade steels.

When the time comes, suggest two-step procedure. Takes only moments. Using a 16-degree angle to match the edge, give a few light strokes on the steel to realign the edge. Over time, you'll be able to feel what's happening at the edge. The strokes you make will feel progressively smoother as the edge is realigned. Finish with a few strokes on Mac rod. Test by slicing a sheet of newspaper -- it should glide right through as you slice with no snags. When the time comes that doing this does not find the blade gliding through the newspaper, you'll need a new edge. That's "sharpening" -- which means, essentially, grinding a new edge. You won't need to worry about that for looong time with these knives. When it's time, you can learn about it yourself or have a pro do it. Just be aware that many "pros" don't actually know what they're doing and can trash your knives if they don't. Might want to ask some questions before turning them over. Shun does it well for free. Just send them in. With the Macs, you're on your own.

Youtube and other internet sites are loaded with sharpening and honing instruction. You will also find many techniques different from what I've suggested above. I wrote what I've settled on and know works.

Unless you get really nuts about this (which some people do) I wouldn't bother with whet stones, etc. Certainly, you can bring and keep your edges "shaving sharp" if you want but the effort/time required isn't worth it IMHO. By using the quick/simple procedure above, you'll be keeping your knives sharper and easier to use than those in anyone's kitchen you know of. And you'll be able to keep them that way for your lifetime.

Thank you Asolo for the precious information. Do I have to buy the Mac ceramic rod, or any ceramic rod would do ?.How do you measure the 16 degree angle, do you do it in an approximate way ?Also how often do you hone your knives, I have read somewhere that somebody suggests doing this before every use. Or should I wait to when they start dulling to do it. Sorry for all these questions,but I am a novice in this area , I love my Shun knives and I would like to enjoy using them for a long time. ( Also I need to justify to my DH all that amount of money that I have put in them ). Thank you again.

Well, first a disclaimer: I'm not a professional, nor do I play one on TV. I'm just an amateur blade-head reveling in my own "discoveries" about how much more pleasurable kitchen work can be with really good implements.

There certainly are many good honing steels and ceramic rods available and I have no doubt many of them would be quite suitable. I don't know about all the others. I do know that the two I recommended are ideal for the purpose, specifically designed and manufactured to give the desired results with these upscale blade-steels. One of the reasons I know this is that I've had many others over the years -- just I've had many inferior knives -- and I can tell the difference in-use. That's anecdotal, I confess, but this combination is quite the best I've yet encountered. Relatively inexpensive, very effective, and easy to use.

"I have read somewhere that somebody suggests doing this before every use."

I've read that, too. With the blade-steels of Shuns and Macs, however, this is silly. They simply don't need it. At the base, they're just knives. They either cut well, or they don't and need to be keened up so that they do. Unless you're using them all day every day or cutting against inappropriately hard surfaces, I think you'll be astonished at how well they hold their edges. I've had many inferior knives, many that wouldn't even take an edge, much less hold it. Used to steel them constantly. I'm now rid of all of them. My Macs and Shuns don't require much attention. When they do, I use the procedure I described. In the six months or so I've had them, none has required sharpening. I steel them maybe every couple of weeks. Depends on usage.

In terms of how my own kitchen works, notwithstanding that I've got lots of knives, the ones I use for 90%+ of everything are 3 1/2" Shun Elite parer; 5" Shun Ken Onion utility; 6 1/2" Mac Santoku; 8" Shun Elite chef's; 9" Shun classic bread knife. (At one other household, my 8" chef's is a Mac, which I've come to prefer over even the Shun) The others pretty much just sit around or have already been given away. I keep a couple of cheap parers around so that less-knowledgeable friends can cut onto plates and I won't care. I also have some cheap steak-knives -- which are always used to cut against plates at the table by everyone. I keep them sharp enough for the purpose, but don't waste serious money on something that, by design, will be abused.

Again, I say that youtube and rest of the internet is awash with information about knives and sharpening. All kinds of opinions out there. I learn new stuff all the time. I've written what works best for me, now.....after many decades of on-and-off experience. Hopefully it may be useful to you. I do know that other people who help me at meal-times marvel at the performance of my knives compared with what they're accustomed to. And with the tools I've described, I can...

Actually Asolo I am looking to buy the Ken onion 5" utility,( I will use it for deboning , cutting cheese , small slicing jobs ) but do not know which one to get the serrated or non serrated one. I already own the Shun 6" non serrated. Which edge would be better to maintain and hold the sharpness better. Also should I hone the serrated edges ,like in the bread knife, the same way ?

IMHO, other than "bread knives" serrated edges are a waste. Strongly advise the non-serrated version. Serrations not needed and are very difficult to properly maintain. Honing/sharpening serrated or scalloped knives is a study in itself.

Thank you asolo for your precious input and patience with me. I hope to be able to well maintain my new knives, and make good choices about future additions to my collection. One last question . which bread knife should I go with.The ken onion one ( I can get for $180 ) or the Shun classic off set one for $134.00. I kind of like the shape of the handle in both, but have not tried either in my hand. The question is , Is the ken onion worth the extra money ?

Whoa...."precious" and "patient"....she says. What a hoot! Both would make you the first to have the opinion.

Between those two, Ken Onion. I don't like a sharp point on my bread knife. Same blade-steel and edge configuration otherwise.

I have the straight classic which has essentially the same blade but the offset both of your alternatives have would be a net plus. If I had to do it again, I'd pony up for the Ken Onion.

Among bread knives, I like Shuns not only for their performance but also for the free sharpening service. Sharpening serrated or scalloped knives properly is very difficult DIY. When the time comes, let them do it.

The money for these things is an outrage, I confess. On the other hand, I only write the check once. I work in the kitchen a good part of my day every day. Stuff that works, lasts, and is easy to maintain carries a lot of weight when I think about it that way. I am poorer....but VERY satisfied with my choices. I hope you will be, too.

Once you're settled in, c'mon back and tell us what you think.

Asolo just FYI, not to sadden you ,Shun has just changed their policy. Starting April 1st they no longer do the free sharpening ( you can google it). Instead, they give you a discount at another sharpening company.Some people are already voicing their disappointment on the Shun website. Thank you again. I will be back with my reviews.

News to me. Thanks. Linked below.

I guess we're all on our own, now.

Here is a link that might be useful: Shun free sharpening discontinued.

I think you are accumulating many redundant knives of the same, rather short, length (5-6'').

I know johnliu , but I think when I get them all I will see which ones to use for what and then I will be returning the ones that I have no use for. The problem is that according to the description they have a different use for each one, but when I get them and start using them in my kitchen I will see which ones I will not use and return them. This is why I like to buy from stores and not online .The other problem is that they all look so nice so that when you get them it is hard to return them. Now I only need to add an 8" chef's knife ( probably the ken onion one or the Mac ) and a 9" slicing/ carving ( I am eyeing the ken onion one too).

FWIW.....I've had the Ken Onion chef's knife (review at amazon) and did like it. However, I did give it away to family member who was enthralled with it and replaced with the Elite 8" and Mac 8" at another location.

It is a wonderful knife but is sort of a "one-person" knife. If you "get" it, it's wonderful....but it's not like any other chef's knife you've ever used. Excellent handle but radically curved blade. You might really dig it.....my sister-in-law surely did which is why I gave it to her. I prefer the more conventional configurations. Strongly recommend the Mac....unless you've got bucks enough for both. Within this group, you WILL be pleased with whatever you choose....just saying.

I have the Shun offset bread knife. It slices bread nicely and with little effort. The blade is extremely sharp with a pointed sharp tip. In fact, I was a little scared to use it at first. But now that I'm comfortable with it, I use it all the time to slice everything from delicate loaves to crusty artisan type breads. I also like the offset handle. You don't scrape your knuckles on the cutting board. This knife is beautiful craftsmanship and a joy to work with. I would highly recommend it.

I'm not sure why anybody would recommend a 180 dollar bread knife. For a chef's knife, sure -- there are very good knives that cost less money, and maintenance may be the most important thing of all, but find a size you like, and a balance, and a blade shape, and weight and buy the tool you like best for daily use. You'll have it a long time. For a bread knife? Spend whatever you like on something that's supposed to look handsome at the table, if that's what you have in mind, but Wusthof's third or fourth line is just dandy as are all sorts of things.

There is another alternative, although still expensive. New West KnifeWorks in Wyoming has a line of knives using American steel that is getting good reviews. Their "super bread" is one example. Hard steel. Wide-scalloped edge that does the job wonderfully but is easy to keep sharp -- unlike the narrow-scalloped edges of most of them. Also excellent for other slicing tasks but the one-side bevel has the same limitations as all other single-side bevels -- like all of them, it's designed for one-side slicing so right/left handers would want to pay attention. I've found it to be extremely versatile as well as top-notch for bread. Angled handle keeps the knuckles unobstructed. About $180.00 after at-the-sight discount.

Here is a link that might be useful: Alternative bread knife