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Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Posted by woodysapsucker (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 10, 14 at 12:53

When we switch to an induction cooktop later this year I will need to purchase new cookware. I was wondering if anyone has used the Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon cookware. Most of the reviews that I've seen are really good. My big question is - have any of you put this cookware in the dishwasher and how does it hold up? The Zwilling site says that it is dishwasher safe but I see many of the reviews that say they never put it in the dishwasher. I'm definitely not keen on doing dishes so I only want to consider cookware that is dishwasher safe.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

I don't own any, but do recall seeing one review on Amazon from a couple who've owned it for several years and treat it badly. By which I mean they're not gentle. I do not recall if they put it in their DW. They do report that it's held up well for them.

Are you committed to nonstick? I ask because modern DW detergents, especially the more powerful ones that work well, like Cascade Complete and Finish Quantum, contain harsh ingredients that will shorten the life of nonstick cookware, even the new ceramic finishes.

IMO, if you want your cookware to last, you'll need to use a plain powder type detergent, without any rinse aids or boosters (and can't add them on your own). This will cut down on the effectiveness of the DW, but it will be better for your pans.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

If I may offer a suggestion? I recently switched to induction and like you, needed new pans. I had been using, for the last 12+ years, Calphalon Tri-Ply, fully clad stainless steel, like the Spirit, but without the nonstick coating. For weight reasons (the pan's, not mine) I decided to go with lighter pans this time around.

I like aluminum for it's lighter weight and responsiveness, so chose a few pans that I wouldn't mind hand washing. I found it's really easy because nothing sticks to them.

I bought two Mauviel M'Stone pans, a sauté and a stewpot. I also picked up a 10" Invoca frypan at TJ Maxx. All three are anodized aluminum, which makes for a fairly nonstick exterior, too. Plus, food doesn't get burned on with induction, because there's no flame and no hot glass, so there's even less to clean on the outside. Anyway, they wipe clean with a soapy sponge and go onto my drying rack.

For the rest I chose the dirt cheap but built like a tank Vollrath Optio, a commercial line. Those are my saucepans and stockpots. Because I'm using them for liquids, sticking isn't a problem and I toss them right into the DW. I use Finish Quantum, which is really aggressive stuff, and they shine every time.

BTW, I like my induction range WAY more than I thought I would. I wanted response that was somewhat close to gas. I got it, in spades. Plus, it's blazing fast, too! Couldn't be happier. :)


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

FLsandytoes I really appreciate your advice - thanks!


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Have you got your induction cooktop yet? Chosen pans? I did recently score a Spirit 3qt sauté from Amazon's warehouse for a song. The pan looked brand new, but the box was dented. So sad. :)

Anyway, I haven't put the pan into the dishwasher, because it is ridiculously easy to clean. Really, it is. I do tend to baby it, but I like my nonstick to last a long time. What I wanted to tell you is how impressed I've been with the pan.

First, the construction is first-rate. The pan is heavy for it's size, but very well balanced. The handle is cast steel and pretty substantial, which contributes to weight, but I think also helps balance. It's a fairly thick pan, I'd say thicker than Calphalon Contemporary or Tri-Ply, thicker than Cuisinart Multi-Clad, but a shade thinner than All-Clad, if you're familiar with those brands. The lid is solidly built and fits tightly.

It cooks very evenly on my GE induction range, more so than my other pans. in fact It's more even than my any of my aluminum pans, which surprised the hell out of me.

It also heats quickly, but so do a lot of my pans. The Thermolon coating is performing about as well as you'd expect given that I've had it less than a month. Nothing sticks and cleanup is a soapy sponge away.

Of course I've no idea how long it will last, or how a dishwasher will affect it, but I wanted you to know how well-built the pan is and how well it performs in ways that aren't dependent on the nonstick coating. If you choose the Spirit line and it loses it's nonstick abilities, you'll still have excellent clad cookware. You can then treat it like bare stainless cookware and still get a lifetime of use from it. In short, it's solid stuff. Enjoy!


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Thanks again FLsandytoes. I do have my induction cooktop but it isn't installed yet :( . We are putting our kitchen cabinets in section by section and the cook-top will be the last section. In a way it's good that it hasn't been installed yet. I'm still researching the various cookware available and reading a lot of reviews. Since cookware is such an expense, I really don't want to make any mistakes. I do have some cast iron fry pans and a steel griddle that I'll start cooking with temporarily - just no sauce pans.

If anyone else has any suggestions please chime in. We like to cook but we both hate cleanup so we're only considering dishwasher safe cookware.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

I need all new cookware for my just-installed GE induction cooktop -- not sure if that's a good thing or not! ;-)
At Bed, Bath & Beyond they're selling a Zwilling "Energy" line, which has the PTFE and PTOA-free non-stick surface. No one else has this line, so I'm wondering if it's been branded esp for BB&B. Anyone know if it's the same as the Zwilling Sol Thermalon pans? Anyone tried them? Thanks...any wisdom would be much appreciated!


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

anzac,

First off, Conga Rats on your new cooktop. My range is the GE, too.

I can't speak to the Sol line, but the Energy label does seem to be a bit different from the Spirit line. Spirit is thicker than Energy, which likely means it has more aluminum. It also carries the Thermolon Granite coating, where Energy has Thermolon Marathon (IIRC). Is there a difference? I've no idea. FWIW, Chef's Catalog staff writes that the difference in Sol and Spirit is the handles.

My best advice is to write to Zwilling. They are very forthcoming with information about their pans. If you asked, I'm pretty confident they'd compare lines for you. You can go so far as to inquire about pan thickness.

I've been cooking almost daily with my sauté pan for 2 months now, and it is still as good as the very first time I used it. The steel exterior has picked up a very slight amber tint all over, but I'm not worried about it. It's a minor heat change, not affecting performance or durability. When I want to, it's easy to return to original color with a quick wipe of BKF paste. The color change is only noticeable when I look at it next to another steel pan, so I mostly just leave it alone.

For daily care, I've found it's so easy to clean it's almost a sin. Hot water, soap and a nylon brush all over do the job. Rinse and let dry. Easy peasy. I've cooked a lot of greasy/oily things and the brush is doing a good job of keeping the Thermolon looking like new.

Do let us know what you find out, please?


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Thanks FLsandytoes.

The Zwilling Energy line has a ceramic non-stick coating called Ceraforce, which is what the Sol II line on the Zwilling site has. From what I can tell from their photos, the handles are the same (and different, more rounded than the Spirit line.) I took your suggestion and emailed Zwilling...will post any reply I get.
Good to know you're enjoying your cookware...I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed and frustrated by all the choices, especially as NONE of my present pans are magnetic so as yet I haven't been able to use my new induction cooktop :(


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

anzac,

Would you insert a link to the Zwilling website you're using? The only ones I can get to in English (the rest in German) are Zwillingonline.com, Zwilling.ca and Zwilling.com/en. Sol (but not Sol II) is on the England and Canada sites, but not on Zwillingonline.com.

On the sites I mentioned, Sol has Thermolon Granite. I can't get to any website that actually shows Sol II. I can Google it, but can't actually get to it. *sigh*

To add interest, I did find some Zwilling CeraForce Ultra pans with the Truclad handle. They're rated to 360ºF while the Thermolon pans are are rated to 500ºF. That may be the final thing that sets one pan apart from another.

Here is a link that might be useful: CeraForce Ultra pans


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Oops! Posted too soon. I went back to the .ca website and found both Sol and Sol II.

Here's where it gets weird. Check the heat ratings:

Sol - 360ºF
Sol II - 390ºF
Spirit - 500ºF

Oddly, as I noted above, both Sol and Spirit have identical Thermolon Granite. Chefs Catalog has Sol, rated to 500ºF. Of course, that information was supplied by Zwilling. I'm confused.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

FLsandytoes --

Yup -- it sure is confusing! I ended up emailing the Canadian site...couldn't find any contact info for Zwilling here in the USA.

I had purchased a Zwilling Energy 3 qt covered saute pan from BBB as it was on sale at a good price. Figured I'd try it and decide whether or not to get more pieces or maybe a set. From what I can tell looking at the photos on line of the Sol II line, it is almost the same -- but not quite! Also -- it says on the packaging it's oven safe up to 500 degrees. Here's a photo of the label. (Sorry -- I couldn't get it to upload vertically!)

The plot thickens! I'll post if/when I here back from Zwilling.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Great Customer Service from Zwilling Canada, which solved several mysteries. I had a couple of email exchanges with Eric there... here's what he said:

" You have reached Zwilling Canada so please keep in mind that if you live in the US you may receive a slightly different answer as product assortments and availability can be different in the US.

"In Canada, the Energy cookware series is exclusive to Bed Bath & Beyond and so that is why you will not see it listed on our website or in other retail stores. Both SOL II and Energy cookware lines are of a clad construction. Energy has glass lids and SOL II has stainless steel lids. The finishes are very similar, it’s really up to you which look you prefer.

"In regards to the heat tolerance of our non-stick ceramic cookware, you should not exceed 390 as you may cause the pan to lose its non-stick properties. Ceraforce is the name of our new ceramic coating, Thermolon is no longer being used in the manufacturing of our non-stick cookware (discontinued)."

Eric also gave me a contact email for Customer Service in the US as SBowser@zwillingus.com, even though there is no zwillingus.com web site. Ironically, I discovered that the Zwilling J.A.Henckels address is about 10 minutes from where I live! Live and learn :)


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

I was in BB&B looking for my next pan and examined the Energy pan. It's body looks like almost the same clad construction as the Spirit. Same thickness, or close enough as to make very little difference, if any, in cooking. And with a newer coating, what's not to like? I'm glad you scored a deal on one.

I've added the link for the US site below. Note that there's nothing to indicate that anything with Thermolon is discontinued. But I also found what appears to be Spirit with Ceraforce at C&B. They're calling it VistaClad. http://www.crateandbarrel.com/search?query=vistaclad.
So right now it appears that they're making it both ways, which is ridiculous. I expect we'll either see Spirit go away soon or see the nonstick relabeled.

Here is a link that might be useful: Zwilling U.S.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

I wrote to Zwilling and asked them the difference between Spirit Thermolon and VistaClad CeraForce and this is their reply:

Thank you for contacting Zwilling JA Henckels. The CeraForce non-stick coating is exactly the same as the Thermalon coating. It is made from the same material; it is just a different supplier. Aside from that, the difference between the Spirit and Vista Clad lines in the design of the handle, and Vista Clad is sold exclusively at Crate and Barrel.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

woodysapsucker and FLsandytoes

Thanks for your added info. Amazing what you find out when you start delving, right? Today I bought several more pieces of Zwilling Energy at BBB (with 20%-off coupons) feeling reasonably confident that they're a good investment. I still need a large stockpot (10 qt approx) and feel I probably don't need this quality -- or expense -- for simmering soup. Am I wrong? Anyone tried Le Creuset's enamel stockpots? I have wonderful Cuisinart stockpots, which sadly are not magnetic. What to do??


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

BBB would let you use a coupon on Zwilling? I tried but there is an exclusion for Zwilling. None of the stores in our area stock the Spirit pots so I tried to use an online coupon.

I have the same problem with my stockpots. I tried to sell them on Craig's List but no takers. I'm thinking about picking up a magnetic stock pot at a restaurant supply store nearby once it's soup season again.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

woodysapsucker,

Thank you! It's always nice to know my favorite pan has another twin, or triplet, I suppose. :-)

anzac,

You don't need Zwilling quality in a stockpot. Normally I would advise against the LC, too, because they're made of carbon steel, which is very similar to cast iron. It is very heavy and it heats slowly and unevenly. But because you have induction, that doesn't apply. It's still uneven, but it heats very quickly on induction. Just give it time to even out before trying to do something like sauté onions. Start on ~2.5 (med-low) and let it heat for 3 minutes. Then you can turn it up and start your sauté. You just need to give the heat plenty of time to spread. But for normal cooktops, ignore the hype about quick heating and even cooking. The size you want is on sale right now for $79!!


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Ok . I have had my Bosch induction for 3 years now. What matters to me 1. Dishwasher safe. 2. Oven safe to 500. 3. Metal utensil safe. 4. Affordably priced 5 a company with a good reliable track record, oh and of course, cooks well and evenly. Funny, but the last thing comes pretty easily with two things. If it is made for or works on induction, then it works well and does cook evenly, induction pots don't have to be heavy heavy but they are all substantial an feel good or truthfully, great.

I love Cookware. I love my infinite circulon which is being shown less and other lesser circulon lines are being subbed. Circulon symmetry is very good and does meet my high standards. Other circulon lines may not have the necessary properties,attributes of my beloved infinite and to a lesser extent, symmetry..

Go to potsandpans.com for circulon and analon..the site also has an old fave, Farberware, which in their current, to the minute iteration has Tad a ....dishwasher safe, 500 oven safe , metal utensil safe,, induction compatible

Tear your self away from swilling,. Open your mind. Spend less money even against your will. farberware. It's not granny's stuff


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

westsider40 -- thanks for your insights. Dishwasher safe isn't a deal-breaker for me; neither is ovenproof to 500 degrees. However, I will check out potsandpans.com for Circulon and Farberware. I'm open to all suggestions :)

I'm also considering trying an 'induction interface disc' (link below) so I can use my Cuisinart stockpots. For soups, I don't need the super-responsiveness of induction, so it won't matter if the disc affects that. The discs get mixed reviews, but it seems worth trying -- and certainly less $$ than new cookware. Has anyone had any experience with these?

woodysapsucker -- Yup - no problem using BBB coupons on Zwilling in store. If your local BBB doesn't carry it, they should order it for you (and you'd get free shipping) AND get to use the coupon.

FLsandytoes - the LC stockpot I'm looking at isn't heavy cast iron; actually very lightweight, which makes me wonder if they're any good.

Here is a link that might be useful: Induction Interface Disc


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

westsider40,

With due respect, until you've tried the Zwilling, you really shouldn't judge. I do not disagree that hard anodized aluminum like Circulon heats evenly. ANY aluminum pan will heat quickly because aluminum is a very good conductor of heat. It also dissipates that heat quickly, making for even cooking. That's why it forms the core of clad stainless steel cookware. However, aluminum is not the perfect metal for all pans. The stainless outer and inner layers in clad cookware delay the transfer of heat to the cooking surface, allowing the aluminum middle layer the time to disperse heat throughout the pan. This helps ensure even cooking and benefits large pans like my sauté, where the pan is larger than the induction coil below it.

I own many kinds of cookware, from disc bottom stainless to fully clad stainless, hard anodized nonstick and carbon steel. Without exception, this Zwilling pan is the most even heating of them all. It beats out my Mauviel hard anodized aluminum, which is similar to your Circulon.

So no, I don't think I'll dump my wonderful Zwilling pan for Circulon. But it is always good to know there are other pans that work well.

I did a lot of research when buying new pans for induction. I looked at all the Circulon and Anolon lines. Circulon simply has too few open stock pieces, and none of the ones I wanted. In fact, there's nothing even close to my 3 quart sauté pan.

BTW, you chose well by buying Infinite over the other Circulon lines. The rest of them have mixed reviews on induction, with most owners agreeing they just don't work very well. This leads me to believe that Meyer cheaped out and didn't use enough steel in the bases of the pans in the other lines.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

anzac,

Yeah, they're not cast iron, they're carbon steel, which is similar to cast iron. If it chips, it will rust. They're not much different than classic Graniteware, only made with heavier steel. About 6-7 pounds, yes?

I haven't used a diffuser disk, but know people who have, so they could use their beloved copper pots. There's no reason at all it wouldn't work with your current stockpot. In fact, it might be a boon, because the extra metal will help prevent scorching, which isn't such a deal with thin broth-y soups, but can be a PITA with chili and cream soups. But here's the thing, any metal plate that works on induction will work. Do you have big cast iron skillet? That will work just fine.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

woodysapsucker,

If you're inclined to save money, don't rule out Graniteware pots. They're still readily available at outdoor/camping/sports or hardware stores and on amazon.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

FLsandytoes --

Sadly, my cast iron skillet was a victim of downsizing.
I'm going to spring for the induction disc, reincarnate my Cuisinart stockpots , and nix the Le Creuset.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

anzac,

Sound move. I doubt you'll have any regrets. The only downside to a disc is that it inhibits quick temperature changes. And how important is that for anything cooked in a stockpot?


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

I thought it might be useful to post an update to this thread regarding the Zwilling Energy cookware and the Induction Interface Disc, especially as both had quite a good workout over Thanksgiving!

I'm extremely happy with the Zwilling saucepans -- they saute/brown beautifully, are a snap to clean, easy to handle and not too heavy. Absolutely no regrets. Could I have spent less and be just as satisfied? Maybe....there are so many options out there. But I feel they were a very worthwhile investment that didn't break the bank.

I also bought the Induction Interface Disc to try under my Cuisinart stockpots, not expecting brilliant results as it had mixed reviews. Thought it was worth the $35 outlay to potentially save buying new induction stockpots. That turned out pretty well -- it does the trick nicely. I find it's more efficient to saute onions, veggies, etc. in the Zwilling first, and then put everything into the stockpot to simmer.

Hope this helps anyone who's pondering the what to do/what to buy induction dilemma.
P.S. I LOVE my General Electric range with the induction cooktop. :-)


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

anzac what type of Induction Interface Disc did you use?

Since I didn't want to invest in a large induction stockpot for the few times I use it each year, I too invested in a VonShef Induction Hob Heat Diffuser. BUT I had the opposite experience. It took FOREVER for the water to boil for my turkey frame soup. In our opinion it was so inefficient that we will be looking for a pot replacement.

On the other hand, I do use the converter plate with my egg poacher and although it isn't induction fast it is an acceptable adaptation.


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RE: Zwilling J. A. Henckels Twin Spirit Thermolon

Hi woodysapsucker --

I bought the Max Burton 6010 8-Inch Induction Interface Disk with Heat-Proof Handle from Amazon for about $39. There are a lot of reviews -- mixed, as I mentioned before. I sorted them by "most recent first." I wonder if the disc's performance is also dependent on the type/quality of cookware it's being used with and also the cooktop itself.

Here is a link that might be useful: Max Burton Induction Interface Disk


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