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GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Posted by snookums (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 16, 05 at 7:02

Can anyone recommend a set of good, high quality knives (that come with a knife block), that wash well in the dishwasher, and aren't insanely expensive? (I'd prefer to spend less than $200, $300 is absolute max).


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

You don't want to put good knives in the ishwasher. You CAN put anything into the dishwasher, but why ruin a good blade?


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I put everything in the DW from my Lenox China to the broiler pan, wood utensils and cutting board - but I will not put my Wusthoff knives in. Once I started using good forged knives I wouldn't do anything that could cause harm.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

If you were using something like the Victorinox/Forschner or Dexter knives that have the synthetic (food-service-type) handles and if you had a dishwasher like a Miele or Asko (maybe others) which have a cutlery tray so the blades would not hit each other, you might be able to do this. But that's a pretty rare set of circumstances (and I'm not "going there" as far as the "goodness" of stamped knives like these). :-)


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Well, this raises a question that I've wondered about for a long time...
Maybe someone with metallurgical experience or knowledge could answer this... Given that extremely high temperatures are involved, I believe, in forging and tempering metal such as knife blades, how can the relatively paltry temperature in a dishwasher (only about 160 F in our Bosch, I believe, which is hotter than non-European makes) have much of any effect on them?
Note - I am not referring to any damage to wooden handles or the like, but to the temper of the blade itself. Also, I hope to get an explanation of the actual physics behind this phenomenon.
Thanks in advance.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I have just discovered a new breed of Chicago cutlery with forged blades ( they say) and black composition handles that I got at a kitchen outlet mall for $22 for an 8 inch chef's knite...and at Tuesday Morning for $28 for another 8 inch chefs and a 6 inch utility and 4 inch parer. The weight is right....feels good to my hand...and I will put them in the DW...carefully on a rack so as not to chip the blade. And they are cheap enough to replace. They are the "Insignia" line of Chicago cutlery.
Linda C

Here is a link that might be useful: knives


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

DW are considered extremely abrasive and as an earlier poster pointed out, unless you have a Miele, your knife blade is going to be bumping up against other objects. Anodized aluminum is also destroyed by a DW yet can withstand broiler temperatures.

The sharp part of the knife is actually fairly delicate which is why you are supposed to use a steel every time you use to straighten it out.

I would imagine a knife without a wood handle could be restored to functionality by a good grinder but you would be stuck with a dull knife for the intervals inbetween.

My Wusthof probably takes 15 seconds to wash by hand -- It would probably take longer than that to load and unload -- plus I would have to worry about cutting myself while it was in the DW. I wash, dry and replace the knife in the block.

I am not against DW as I use mine often but what is this mania for using a DW when handwashing is easier. I've also seen complaints/questions about not being able to use a DW for non-stick which also takes almost no time to handwash and again, between putting in, fitting other dishes in between it because pans are so large and unloading it, it takes more time than the 30 seconds it takes me to handwash my Calphalon Commercial nonstick pan.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Neurotic me thinks they are cleaner if you wash them in a dishwasher....
But of course you are right...not more than a moment to suds off a knife.
Linda C


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

It's not the temperature in a DW that damages blades, but rather contact with other items in a silverware basket. The only real solution is to get a Miele dishwasher with a cutlery tray, because each knife fits into a slot and doesn't contact anything else.

DWs are of course bad for wooden handles. And I would only put a stainless knife in the DW; I don't think carbon steel should probably go in either.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I have a GE dishwasher with a cultery tray.

I have cut myself before handwashing knives...I'd rather dishwash them. I don't need a knife that will cut through a car, just a good one that will cut veggies and then can be dishwashed along with everything else.

What about brands like Cutco or Henkels?


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

snookums, not familiar with cutco, but there are several good forged knives avail today. The best thing to do is handle them and see what feels best in your hand. If you do lots of veggies, esp thing like beets, squash, turnips you will not believe what a difference a good forged knife makes. The job is done in a fraction of the time. I do have a friend that puts her henkles in the DW, the handles have cracked over a time.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I would not spend money on a good forged knife and then put it in the dishwasher. If you insist on washing knives in the dishwasher, then buy inexpensive forged or stamped knives a la chicago cutlery or some of the lower priced stamped henkles and use those instead.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I saw a chicago cultery set with block at TJ Maxx...for $50 - are those any good? I've also been looking at the Henkels set that Costco sells.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Chicago are considered a fair knife although a good buy. One of the problems is that they don't stay sharp at all (so I've read).

A set of knives is overkill for most people. You really only need a chef's knife or Santuko, a paring or utility knife and a bread knife.

You are much better off buying a few excellent knives rather than a bunch of mediocre knives.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I bought a set of Chicago Cutlery knives about a year ago. I wanted good knives, but I am naturally very frugal and just couldn't spend the dough for Wusthof or Henckels. I am careful to wash my knives immediately after use and steel them before using. They have never been in the dishwasher! I am very happy with them. FWIW, I would love to buy a Chef's Choice sharpener, but can't justify it because the knives still are sharp enough to cut paper neatly. I use the chef's knive everyday, the bread, slicer, and utility about once per week. IIRC, the set cost about 70.
In short, if you're going to be very careful with them and want to save money, you probably won't be disappointed.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

That's the thing. I want a set that I don't have to be careful with and are still good. Does such a thing exist?


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Snookums, I have a set of Cutco knives, they come in a block and I paid about $400 for them. I put them in the dishwasher all the time and so far - so good. I've had them for about 5 yrs now.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

A consideration for me for putting something in the dw is always- how many of them do I have. If there are only one or two of something, it might be out of service too long if I have to wait for the dw to wash it. Knives and pans, spatulas and mixer parts all get hand washed and are ready to use for me or someone else(four cooks) right away. The dw takes a couple days to fill. Soap, hot water and a rubbermaid dish brush, my hands don"t even get wet, and the knife or pan is back in its place. Many times these cleanups can take place while another part of the cooking process is taking place.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Not only is the cutlery at risk of being knocked around and banging into other items in the DW, it's also the dishwasher detergent that is "unkind" to the metal blades.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

There are no good knives you can put in the dishwasher.

If you want a good knife, the Shun santoku that was recently mentioned in another thread is a really wonderful knife. They're very sharp, well-balanced, the handle feels much better than the design on your typical German and American knives, and the santoku shape seems to have the edge just fall where I need it. And the laminated (Damascus) steel allows them to put a harder piece of metal at the edge of the blade, allowing a sharper, longer-lasting edge.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

snookums If you are concerned about cutting yourself while washing a knife, hold the knife with the blade facing away from you and rub from the "backside" of the blade. Also, if you put the knife in the dishwasher, you run the risk of the blade harming what it rubs against - in some machines this could expose metal.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

As a chef, I will simplfy this: Good knives are NEVER put into a dishwasher. Why do you need to anyway? It only takes a couple of second to rinse and wipe off a blade, which is all you do unless you are cutting up fresh poultry.

Chefs never gives knives to the dish crew. You would flunk a section of culinary school if they found your knife in the dish room or even unattended in a sink. Very dangerous.

The abrasive cleaner in home DW's is hard on the knife, the banging around is hard on the knife, and it's extremly unsafe to reach into a basket or rack with sharp knives in it.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

On cpovey's last point, a friend of mine ended up with a $900 emergency room bill when she reached into the DW past the basket with the knife in it. Got her in the arm really good!

So, see how much money you can save by not putting your knives in the dishwasher? ;)


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I also have Cutco knives, must say I am not all that impressed with them, but I still never put knives in the DW. I would love to have a set of the Wusthoff knives, someday. I have one paring knive that is Wusthoff and I just love it (it never goes in the DW). I can't even remember how I ended up with it. How do you guys that have like them...are they worth the money to have the whole set?


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I have 10 Wusthof knives (old/original Grand Prix-my hands are large and they fit so nicely), purchased at different times throughout the years. I first learned about them through friends who attended the CIA in Hyde Park. Since we're only about 20 miles away, I purchased a few through their school store. Others were purchased at various stores that carry them, but only if I could get them on sale. I also purchased some at the Wusthof annual warehouse sale in Elmsford, NY. They are some of the best knives around, hands down. A friend gave me a Chicago Cutlery Santoku as a gift. I didn't want to offend her and return it because she put alot of thought into what she got me. She also visits me quite frequently and enjoys it when I use it to prepare lunch, etc. :o) It's OK, but not as good as the Wusthof Santoku.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Becky,
Wusthof is one of several German knifemakers that make fine knives. There are many other European, American, and Japanese knifemakers that turn out fine knives in the same class. They are usually forged (not stamped), well balanced, and comparable in price. If you replace your Cutco knives with any of them prepare to pay about the same price as you did for the Cutcos and a big, big improvement in performance. Cucto knives are stamped and the only reason they cost so much is the way they are marketed.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

deanb, thank you so much for the info. I was disappointed with my Cutco knife as soon as I first used them. The steak knives are pretty good, but I was expecting something just grand, I guess. I am on a quest now to find some really good knives and the Wusthof, so far, is one of my favorites. The set I would love to have runs $1,000 to $1,200, so not sure I am ready to fork out that much, yet. Sometimes in the sets, there are several I would never use, so it would be kind of a waste, but I like getting the knife block to store them in. Anyway, thank you again for your kind reply.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Knife blocks are available separately. I would price out the cost of a block and the knives you really use and see how that compares to the price of a set.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

I bought a very nice Henckels knife block at BB & B -- It was $40 and I was able to use my 20% off coupon which brought the price down to $32. I was searching for one that had slots for steak knives as well as slots for a chef's knife AND my Santuko.

I would really advise against buying a set. Most cooks use only a few knives most of the time - chef's knife/Santuko, paring knife and perhaps a utility knife. A bread knife is also very functional but you don't need the top of the line for a bread knife :) If you have other specialized needs you can plug them in.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Blazedog just said about what I was going to say, so I'll second the motion--A paring knife and a really good santoku will cover about 90% of the average person's needs. Add a bread knife and a slicing/carving knife, and you're up at around 98-99%.

As I've previously posted, the Shun 6-1/2" santoku with scallops (DM-0718) is an incredible knife--I can't recommend it highly enough. It's far better than any of my Wusthof and Henckels knives.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

Becky,
You are more than welcome. I don't know what stores you are near that carry good cutlery but I think it would help you to decide on the knives you want if you could see and handle several different lines.


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RE: GOOD knives I can put in the dishwasher?

The only way your knives will be harmed in the dishwasher, unless they have wooden grips, is that the edges will tend to get banged into other metal things. If you can place them in the dishwasher so that this doesn't happen, they will be fine. If you put all your sharp knives in a heap with each other and other silverware during the handwashing process, then you subject the blades to similar abuse.

Safety is a different issue. While I agree that it is pretty dangerous to have sharp knives sticking up out of the silverware basket in your dishwasher, putting them in a basin of sudsy water is even more dangerous. At least in the dishwasher silverware basket, you can see them. A sharp knife that is invisible under sudsy water is ridiculously dangerous. If that's how you would handwash them, then do yourself a favor and put them in the dishwasher.

jefd


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