It sounds like it will be a rich dense cake and I think that I will try the recipe! However, my gut reaction would be to reduce the 2 c sugar down to 1 1/2 cups for the cake.

I don't care for sugary frosting, and their frosting recipe doesn't sound tart enough for me. :) I'd save the fat calories and make a simple glaze for the cake... I'd use maybe 2 c. confectioner's sugar, a tbs. of butter, and plenty of lemon juice to get some tang. :O)

If you like a tart frosting, try this one

1 cup softened butter
1 tsp lemon zest
1/2 cup lemon juice
6-8 cups powdered sugar

Cream together the butter, zest and 4 cups of the sugar. Slowly add the lemon juice and beat until smooth. Gradually add the remaining sugar, 1 cup at a time, until the icing reaches the desired consistency.

Thank you, party_music. In that case you might want to try the Bundt cake--another thing I haven't made in years! She gives the baking times for Bundt. I'm going full-on fat though! We so seldom have cake.

I think most of the lemon flavor would come from the frosting, so that's why I'm thinking I should bake layers. Or maybe add some lemon extract to the cake batter?

I agree, it sounds like it will be very heavy and dense, but that doesn't mean you won't like it. There is a common ratio of ingredients to use as a basis for most baked goods. For a standard plain (shortened) cake, by measure, one-third as much fat as sugar; two-thirds as much milk as sugar; and about three times as much flour as liquid. Once you know your basic ratios, it helps judge the recipe and it's characteristics when done.

What happens with too much sugar:
-Too much browning (which is probably why the recipe is baked at a lower temperature)
-It can fall in the center.
-It will appear to be soggy.
-It will be heavy.

There are a lot of eggs, as well. You may find you have tunnels in the cake because of that. Tunnels are also a result from using all-purpose flour and over-mixing it and developing too much gluten, so keep mixing to a minimum once you add the dry ingredients. The leavening gasses have to work hard to drill their way through the long gluten strands as well as the protein of the eggs.

-Grainlady

It doesn't sound heavy to me at all. Because the sugar and butter requires a long beating (5 minutes is adequate) which incorporates enough air into the batter. And the baking powder is there to neutralize the acid in the sour cream. All this to say, it all works to lighten the batter.

The sugar is there for several reasons. One, obviously for flavor. The other, to tenderize the cake for a velvet mouth feel and to keep the cake moist. If you need to reduce the amount of sugar, only do so by a 1/2 cup.

That said, there are only two things I would change (for my own personal taste). I prefer to use cake flour instead of all-purpose flour in most cake recipes. And if you're using regular, salted butter, reduce the amount of salt called for in your recipe by half.

Sol

Thank you! I'm fine with the sugar then. I'm a little concerned about the denseness with only one cup of flour and all the wetter ingredients. I do want that velvet mouth feel and a fine crumb.

Also, what does shortening do for the icing? Back when I was a teen, a friend made an all-shortening frosting, but I haven't seen any recipes like it since.

duplicate

This post was edited by may_flowers on Wed, Sep 25, 13 at 15:16

I think there are 2 cups of flour, and cake flour would be a good substitution for the all purpose

I agree that there is too much salt in that recipe. I would use unsalted butter and still reduce the salt by half. A lot of people like the taste of salt in their cakes, but I find them to have a more delicate flavor without the salt. I found another similar recipe that used 1-1/2 cups of flour and only 1/4 tsp of salt, which sounds about right to me. I especially do not like salt with lemon, but my mother used to eat lemons with salt on them.

You should get enough lemon flavor in the cake with the zest of the lemon, providing the lemon is fresh.

I do not use shortening when I make icing and use all butter instead, but that is my personal preference, and the cake then needs to be stored in a cooler place, if possible. Room temperature is okay as long as the room is not more than 72 degrees. I've been in many houses in Texas that were 80 degrees.

Lars

Yikes! I hand wrote the recipe and wrote down 1 c. flour!!!

I was going to make this today, but I'll hold off and get cake flour and unsalted butter!

Lars, I'm in Oregon and the flannel sheets went on the bed today!

Personally, I'd suggest keeping with the all-purpose flour, at least the first time you make it, because I don't think much of anything, including altering the type of flour used, will make this anything other than a heavy cake due to the ration of ingredients.

If you DO substitute cake flour for the all-purpose flour, there is enough difference in the protein/gluten in the flours you may need to adjust the amount of flour up a little - add 2 T. more per cup of all-purpose flour.

This recipe was designed for all-purpose flour (which is milled from a mixture of soft and hard wheat), and has a wide range of protein numbers depending on the brand you use - 10-12% - while cake flour (Swans Down, Softasilk) is 6-8%. A Southern All-Purpose would be another choice (White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, Red Band) coming in at 7.5-9.5% - which is milled from soft wheat, but increase it 1 T. per cup of all-purpose flour. If you don't increase the amount of lower-protein flour, the hydration will be off. You can't substitute cake flour cup-for-cup for the all-purpose flour.

Gluten soaks up hydration like a sponge, so when you change the type of flour, you will also need to make adjustments for the amount of gluten lost. In essence, your "sponge" (protein/gluten) in cake flour is too small for the amount of hydration that was determined for a much larger "sponge" in all-purpose flour (to use a poor analogy, but I hope you see the reasoning).

In reality, when it comes to creaming the fat and the sugar, 5-minutes is a minimum amount. Don't skimp on time spent creaming the fat and the sugar because this is an important step in good cake baking that is often hurried and more often than not, done incorrectly or incompletely. You'll find more information at the link below. It's about the temperature of the butter and the mixture, as well as the time mixing it. You also need to start your mixer on a low speed, and never go over medium speed (especially if using a stand mixer). High speed mixing will increase the temperature of the mixture too much.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Baking 911 - creaming

The reason that shortening is used instead of some (or all) of the butter in icing is that it produces an icing that is more temperature stable and therefore a bit easier to work with than butter.

E.g. if you were frosting the cake in a warm kitchen, an icing made with butter might get too soft to work with easily while an icing made with shortening would be more likely to stay hard enough to spread properly or, if you were taking the cake to a summer picnic, the shortening based frosting would be more likely to stay stiff enough in the heat.

Generally, I prefer to optimize for taste rather than looks and use all butter, but sometimes when I want to make a fancy decorated cake and the conditions might not be ideal, I'll use half shortening and half butter.

Like cloud swift, I use all butter for flavor, but if I have to decorate and want things to look just so, I use half butter and half shortening, as the shortening doesn't melt as quickly or get as soft.

Like Sol, I don't think the cake sounds too heavy, as long as you don't skimp on that beating step. I know I hurried it once on Pixistix' Hot Milk Cake and got a very heavy cake, but it's far lighter when I don't hurry that beating in the beginning, then don't overbeat when I add the flour at the end.

I'd also go for the cake flour if you are worried about the texture or density of the cake. The cake flour is lower in protein (i.e. less gluten development if overbeaten) and more finely textured. It generally makes a lighter cake.

That said, I think it will be fine with all purpose, which I use for most of my baking, from cake to bread. I only buy the "specialty flour" when I'm doing something special, like my stepdaughter's wedding cake next week.

As our Sol is a baker extraordinaire, she's never steered me wrong. If she says so, then I do it. And here some people thought I was a good baker, maybe I'm not that good after all, maybe it's just Sol's good advice and the recipes from here!

Annie

Great all-around advice! I have a lot to learn about cake-baking after being away from it for so long. When I started making cakes as a teen from my circa 1970 Betty Crocker cookbook, I knew nothing of the science behind the ingredients.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to teach me about cakes. Will hopefully be eating a nice piece of cake this time tomorrow!

The recipe looks good but I'd skip adding lemon flavor in your buttercream. It looks too citric to me)However, it's totally up to you. This recipe looks good too and the description is very detailed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJVIBI04aUc

I had good results with my cake. It was light and tender with a fine crumb. I used cake flour, adding the extra 2 tbsp. per cup. The flavor of the butter and sour cream came through more than the lemon, so I would call it closer to a white cake. I always make sure I buy a sour cream that doesn't have any added gums--Daisy and Nancy's are both good brands. I also made sure I creamed the butter and sugar for 5 minutes--I might have tried to get away with fewer if I hadn't read your advice.

I made a Bundt cake and frosted it with lemon icing. I'll share that recipe. It was perfect for a Bundt, so you should double it for a layer cake.

Thank you for helping me make my cake a success!

Lemon Buttercream Frosting

1/2 cup butter, softened
2 c. confectioner's sugar

Mix together, then add:

3 tbsp. lemon juice--about 1 lemon

may, I'm glad your cake turned out well, you've made me hungry for lemon cake.

I'm baking 50 cake balls, 72 cupcakes and a 2 layer gluten free cake for my stepdaughter's wedding next week, she wants a "cupcake tower", apparently that's fashionable now. Fine by me, easier than decorating and transporting one of those stacked tiered monsters anyway. Now I'm thinking I might have to make some of those cupcakes lemon...

Annie

I love lemon, and was thinking that this recipe didn't look like it had enough lemon for the lemon flavor to come through. I guess from your results, that's the case. I wonder how it would change things, if it would change the cake to add some lemon juice to the cake, too?

(Edited for grammer/spelling correction)

Sally

This post was edited by sally2 on Sun, Sep 29, 13 at 9:33

Annie, definitely make some lemon cupcakes, or at least frost them with lemon icing!

Sally, you could probably add more zest and lemon extract. I'm not sure how much lemon juice you can add without adding too much liquid. I did consider that and would be interested in knowing. I would probably glaze it with a vanilla glaze though. The frosting is lemony and I wouldn't want the cake and frosting to compete for flavor.

That makes sense, May Flowers.

Sally

AnnieB, at first I thought it was high-blood pressure, but no. I'm pretty sure I'm blushing. Thank you for your kind words!

Mayflowers, congratulations! I'm glad the cake was a success. I was afraid you'd be overwhelmed by too much information.

Always keep in mind that our mothers, grandmothers and great-grandmothers were turning out beautiful breads and cakes without the aid of cookbooks, or Google.

It's been said that baking is a science, but thank heavens we don't have to be scientists to bake a cake. And that's good, because I suddenly have a craving for lemon cake.

Sol