If my oven can hold a 28 pound turkey the racks should be able to hold a 25 pound stone.

Like the stone I have now, I would just leave it in the oven. It isn't like I would be lifting in and out on a regular basis.

~Ann

Looks like a lifetime investment. I've been using some heavy steel cookie sheets for years that i use for crust pies, pizza, and any dish that needs a hot baked bottom like potato anna. (Used also as a spill-over tray.) Bought by mistake on sale years ago and quickly burnt a batch of cookies before i knew better.
My wood cookstove has a top surface that is 1/4 inch steel and will rust. Wonder what the micro layer is on this steel is that seems to seal and prevent rust? It just says pre-seasoned in the copy info. Just curious.
Looks like a beauty and seems worth the money. Both my stones have cracked. I don't use them much now that we use cast iron dutch oven for breads. Steel cookie sheet upside down for pizza...it cooks so quickly that i need it close to the broiler to toast the toppings.

Great idea. Nice it is available. I want one.

"----Like the stone I have now, I would just leave it in the oven. It isn't like I would be lifting in and out on a regular basis."

A friend leaves an 80 lb bag of cement in his trunk for better traction on snow in the winter. But the cement stays in the trunk year round. Of course he pays a price in gasoline each time he steps on the gas peddle, and pays a price each time he steps on the brake.

In addition to the longer time it takes to preheat the oven, it take energy to heat up 25 lbs of steel each time you use the oven, and it take air conditioning energy each time to cool 25 lbs of steel back to room temperature.

dcarch

That is a bit extreme. Leaving extra weight in the truck bed in the summer is just strange and not so bright. The extra weight i used during a bad storm got me home, well, took 6 hours instead of one, but i had a good nights sleep while other were stranded roadside. I drive a mini.
Steel absorbing heat can be used wisely. Roasting veggies during pre-heat, etc. Later using the absorbed radiating heat when oven is off for oven drying fruits...or leaving the oven door cracked open for heat during cooler months. (with oven off). My wood cookstove is designed for just that.
When baking bread or flatbreads for crackers, we always double-up for other dishes needing oven heat. A fruit dessert or cornbread can use the heat when the bread comes out. And making a half dozen pizzas while at it with all the ingredients prepped you have some to freeze or for leftovers for lunch the next day. Oven off the steel remains hot.
Seems most avoid baking during hot summers anyway and adjust to fresh harvest foods, cold soups and salads and/or grilling outside. Seasonal cooking is much more energy efficient and encouraged here as i see it.
Removing it a couple times in the summer is not impossible if needed.

Just drive the Mini like I do my little red Miata, you get up a bunch of speed and make sure there's plenty of room as you slide from side to side until you get to the top of the hill. Weeee! No? It was nailbiting, but I did it! What whas really funny? Other people didn't realize what I was doing was right. I'd wait until I could get up enough speed and leave enough room after the car in front of me who struggled and struggled. Needless to say, the cars behind me didn't struggle. They got it. Nashvilleans don't know how to drive in snow, because we get so little!

Just a little OT, but I was just perusing Facebook, and an ad for the exact steel baking stone from Sur La Table showed up. I know this is what to expect these days, but I still find it creepy.

Sleevendog, I admire your efficiency. I'm not nearly that organized. I should try your suggestions, though, to utilize the oven more effectively.

Sally

I have the steel "stone" and purchased it at the link below. It is WONDERFUL !! I have 2 ovens so it lives in one all the time. It isn't that arduous to remove it though. It does have a curing process on the steel that they put on and it is food safe and they use recycled steel to make them.

It does heat up as quickly as my cast iron pots that I use for breads. I also have been using the steel for boules when I bake to sell. I can fit 4/ 500 gram boules on it . I have used heavy steam as I baked the breads with a pan of lava rocks and boiling water...have baked 4 batches one after the other so 16 loaves. No problem and the weight of the steel and the heat keeps the oven temp in my Miele ovens from fluctuating hardly at all ! It drops only 4 degrees when I am opening and rotating loaves...so saves energy.

I also plan the use of the steel so that I am utilizing the oven after the initial artisan high heat bread bake for other things. You will be very pleased if you purchase one.

I bake probably more than most folks ever do since I am selling at farmer's markets so I can schedule the high heat breads first and then work my way down to the regular loaves and rolls and pastries.

Hope this encourages others to buy one !

spacing of 4/ 500 gram boules on a thin baking sheet that then slides onto the hot steel stone ;

{{gwi:1562067}}

ready for bagging to market to market :)

boules and more boules !

special bakes for Rosh Hashanah:

bagels with a lye bath ...look at that blistered crust !

{{gwi:1562069}}

Here is a link that might be useful: baking steel

Wish you were at my farmer's market. I could save a lot of baking time by just buying from you. Everything looks wonderful.

Thanks for pointing out the advantages of leaving the stone in the oven. I've always left my regular stone in the oven.

~Ann

Trailrunner, do you have the standard size baking steel or the "big" one?

~Ann

Thank you Ann ! What a sweet note from you. I have the regular steel...they are the same 16x14 but the "big" is 1/2 inch thick. I don't think that is necessary. I am SO impressed with this . I have had a regular stone for years and used it a long time even after it broke...which was my fault as I got it too wet in the sink...dumb.

One other thing you might want to look into to line your oven with are "splits". These are ceramic 9"x4"x1 1/4" thin bricks that are used to make a fireplace. A number of folks on The Fresh Loaf lay them out in their oven and use them as their stone. Works great and they are very cheap. I will link below.
Thank you again for your kind words. c

Here is a link that might be useful: ceramic splits

Another recent review by CHOW.

After seeing trailrunner's pics, I could seriously talk myself into buying this.

Win-Win: delicious bread and cardio workout just moving it:)

Cathy in SWPA

Here is a link that might be useful: Baking Steel - Is it Practical?

Interesting discussion. I'm convinced a pizza steel is in my future. I can imagine you'd even get a better roast chicken with the steel left in the oven. It's not something I'd buy for myself but I've shown it to DH and hinted about Christmas.

/t

tricia your comment made me think of what some folks do ...they put the steel stone on top and another stone on bottom to get a brick oven sort of radiating heat. Your roast chicken would brown nicely with the hot stone above!!

Thank you Cathy...it isn't THAT heavy:) But I won't tell ! c

According to science, actually the best metal for pizza is aluminum. significantly lighter and much higher in specific heat contain (almost twice the BTUs) , as well as in conductivity (five times better).

But it would be too expensive. There are people who are obsessed with pizza trying to get aluminum plates.

dcarch

This post was edited by dcarch on Fri, Sep 13, 13 at 9:04

trailrunner, come to NY.

We don't have good bakers in farmers markets. You will do very well here with your quality.

Pay is good here.

dcarch

The oven I have here in Texas is gas, and the floor of the oven holds a stone nicely. The oven in Tahlequah, however, is electric, with the coils covering the bottom of the oven. So, if I want to keep a stone or steel in the bottom of that oven, I have to use the bottom shelf. Is that typical of electric ovens? Is it even effective to put the stone or steel on the lowest shelf rather than the floor of the oven? I'm asking because, of course, if I were to get a steel, I'd want to be able to use it. (I hope to replace that range anyway, but for the time being, I have to use it.)

Sally

I see home-baked sweets at the farmer's market. A couple of them have tried some bread, but my own is so much better looking that I don't even pause. I'd love to have someone who sells beautiful homemade bread ... I'd be baking less, too!

Sally, if the "stone" is on the floor of the gas oven, there is metal-to-metal direct contact, which is very efficient for heat conductivity to take place.

In an electric oven, the heating element heats the stone two ways:

1. Initially, by Infrared (IR) radiation, if the steel is new this will not be very efficient because shiny metal reflects IR. It becomes better, as the steel blackens and can absorb IR better.

2. The electric heating element heats the air in the oven, and the convective hot air heats up the steel by conduction. Because the air has very little heat capacity (specific heat) it is a slow process. In a convection oven, it get much better.

In short, the steel stone in an electric oven will take longer to get up to temperature, but will work fine just the same for a good pizza.

dcarch

thanks for the offer dcarch ! I have been to Union Street market and they have gorgeous breads !! I couldn't compete with that. Now the one's out at the Suffern market were pretty but the taste was really lacking IMHO. So I guess it just depends on where you are. Hard to make much money..it is a LOT of work especially with a home oven/kitchen. I make batches of sourdough and retard in fridge and then make regular yeast breads to supplement. I find that with the local AL population they don't understand the Artisan sourdoughs and like regular yeast breads...I have to bake what they like not what I would like...sigh. c

trailrunner-beautiful breads. It is a bit of work! We just make a bit for ourselves and neighbors and freeze for lunch, etc.
Just had success with a pumpernickle/rye using artesian 5min recipe.
Have been wanting to do this for ever.

sleevendog...pretty !! I read your posts all the time and saw the pics of the cottage in NS. Wow...what an amazing place and what a wondrous cook you are !

I have never tried the Artisan Bread in 5 minutes. I have been baking all my breads since the early 70's. I started using my wild yeast culture about 4 yrs ago and have never looked back. I use a lot of ideas from The Fresh Loaf and from Wild Yeast Blog. Both places use a lot of sourdough and creative artisan breads. Have a look and let me know what you think, c

sleevendog,

I have to second trailrunner's comment..."what an amazing place and what a wondrous cook you are !"

I have been in a rut for some time due to illness. Your posts are motivating me to shake things up.

/tricia

I would not look back with such success.
My husband is the baker in the home so i should not take credit but i do push recipes in his face, lol. He did get excited about the pump/rye and did a great job with it. (the next loaf is resting in the fridge for tonight....the 5min protocol is waiting for you to bake when you can get to it throughout the week). I have three batches of crackers waiting for same. For some reason i am the cracker maker. Both will use the oven heat tonight.

Jim's no-knead pretty much changed our bread baking. He is an old friend from years ago.
We have been teaching to friends and family since.
My husband grew up with a fantastic mom, my MIL, who baked and gardened and made vichyssoise and cote-du-bouf for his school lunches, lol. (she loves my cooking, pheww)
...and she has a sourdough starter from probably 1960, lol. (i made that up but would not be surprised if so)
Newfoundland is not without its challenges...wood cook stove, laundry on line, hand dug well so lack of endless water, crap fridge, root cellar....but the soul is refreshed living so pure.
Now home to conveniences and power out, haha.

Dcarch, if you were getting a piece of metal cut for your oven would you go stainless steel or aluminum?
I have a sheet metal place in the area that I can get metal cut to fit my oven rack. Going to stop in to this place on Monday and get a quote. Is a 1/4 inch thick the right thickness?

Thanks

Ann

sleevendog, I agree, I love your posts and am still intrigued with the moose lasagna and your wood stove. Good for your hubs, that's a lovely loaf of pumpernickel, which is one of my favorites.

c, those are absolutely beautiful loaves. I know that I love the crusty loaves but my kids like the soft and squishy Farmhouse White stuff, so there's no accounting for taste!

Now I'm thinking that I have a very large heavy aluminum griddle that I used for camping, it covers two burners on the stove. That might make a fine baking steel, I'm going to have to go through the camping stuff and find it.

Ann T, having one cut is a really good idea, I'll be interested to watch this happen and see how it goes.

Elery is still wanting a wood fired oven at the farm, so a steel might be in the future here too, he's looked at a couple of them and is thinking about how to incorporate that into a freestanding outdoor wood burning structure.

Annie

Lots of innovative ideas here !! Will look forward to seeing who gets what/where/how ! I also have a metal working fellow that is my friend and could have gotten anything I wanted but I hesitated due to the "curing" process that is on this one and I wasn't sure how I would do it..suppose I could have just done what we did with our 40 yr old crbon steel wok...used it !!

Annie...thank you ! Your posts are always SO interesting. I would like to see what happens with the aluminum griddle...great idea. c

Posted by ann_t " Dcarch, if you were getting a piece of metal cut for your oven would you go stainless steel or aluminum? ----"

I am not 100% sure. I have read about people talked about getting aluminum, but I have not read much about any of the aluminum users experiences.

Nevertheless:

Based of the facts, that aluminum is lighter but more in specific heat, You will need to get an aluminum plate that is more than 1/4" thick to equal 1/4" thick steel's heat performance, I have not done an exact calculation yet (coming home late), May be 3/8" thick? which will still be lighter than steel.

I am not sure you should go with stainless.

Part of the heat behavior is the "Black Body" theory of radiation, that a black body absorbs heat the best aswell as radiates heat the best. With aluminum you can black anodize both surfaces, but I am not sure if you can blacken stainless steel well. If not, it will be a poor piece of metal to get heated up because it will reflect a lot of the infrared heat, and it will be a poor radiator of heat to heat up the food.

Steel, you can season it black.

Steel melts at over 2,000 F, but aluminum melts at (I think) 1,200 F, which is very high, but it is posible to get charcoal to be at that temperature on a windy day, which can do damage to aluminum.

I have used charcoal to melt steel, i have gotten charcoal hot enough to melt bricks into glass.

I think in addition to making great pizza, the steel can probably be wonderful for naan bread.

And to others, if you don't make pizza bigger than 12", Just use your 12" cast iron skillet.

dcarch

Thanks Dcarch.

Found this article by someone that used an aluminum plate to cook pizza.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link

Great thread! I have been wanting a steel ever since I received my Modernist Cuisine books. After all the great info on this thread, I may just look into aluminum. I have a friend the sheet metal business, so would easily be able to get one.

dcarch would the aluminum need to be treated with anything 1st? Or would one just use the sheet as is?

Great link ann t! I would never have thought of putting stone or steel on top rack and then using the broiler. Going to have to try that for sure.

I have a stone in each of my ovens and I also never take them out. Once a year I clean them in the self cleaning cycle of the oven and they come out like brand new!

This aluminized steel was recommended on another forum.

http://www.amazon.com/Cadco-CAP-F-Pizza-Plate-Aluminized/dp/B008YFX3PC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_6

I've been keeping an eye on this hunk of baking steel for quite some time. And I'm growing weary of waiting for the price to come down.

Sol

Forgot to add, Trailrunner you're a bread baker extraordinaire!
You too, Sleevendog.

Sol

"-----dcarch would the aluminum need to be treated with anything 1st? Or would one just use the sheet as is?----"

Aluminum forms Aluminum oxide instantly, which protects the under layer of bare metal, however, this protective layer is very thin; you can still damage aluminum if you cook food that is too acidic or too alkaline. Anodizing aluminum will give you thinker protective surfaces.

The item you linked is too big for many ovens, and at 1/5âÂÂ, too thin to be effective.

There is no information as to how hot the temperature can be for the non-stick surface.

dcarch

Thanks dcarch for the info on the aluminum.

They make a half size version of the one I linked too, and the person that recommended it, also bought a steel, and found no diff. in use between the two. I'm personally more interested in either the steel or aluminum sheets. The latter specifically because they don't weigh as much.

Trailrunner your breads are beautiful! Nice work, our farmers market has bread but only the traditional no artisan breads.
Love how your pumpernickel looks too, have often wanted to try that recipe but havent.

We made the plung and bought the steel baking stone from Sur La Table. I am sold after only one use. Made the Olive Oil recipe in Bread in 5 Minutes, yesterday. Today heated the pizza pan, by the way the oven heated up to 475* much faster than when the other stone was in the over.

Made two smaller pizzas, shaped the dough and baked on parchment paper approx 5 minutes until top was lightly browned. Took out of oven and took the parchment paper from the pizza and flipped over onto the pizza peel. Loaded the baked dough with homemade pasta sauce, sweet pepper, sun dried tomatoes, sweet sausage and then moz. cheese. Forgot to add fresh basil :(

Baked 8 minutes and the pizzas were done. My husband commented 'Why do we get take out pizza when this taste so good and it is fast!'

As I said I am sold!

We have more tomatoes on vines in the garden, we thought about not picking any more as we are about tomatoed out. Well guess we will be picking the rest for homemade pasta sauce to use on pizza.

Annie I have always wanted an outdoor pizza oven too, but being in zone 5 not sure how useful the oven would be. After purchasing the new pizza pan, I may not think about the outdoor oven much longer. Hoping it works well for the boules made from the Bread in 5 Minutes.

Trudy, I'm also in zone 5 here in Michigan, but Elery would like a small shelter outside that would hold the grill(s), the smoker and a wood fired oven. We're both relatively cold tolerant, he never gets cold, so I could see him stoking the fire in February so I could sneak a loaf of bread in the oven...

Annie

thank you trudy ! We need pictures of what you are making ! :) c

I forgot I asked the question, and haven't seen this thread for a while. Thanks for the answer, Dcarch, but I don't know if I was clear.

The electric coils are attached to the floor of the oven, so I don't have an obvious place to put the stone. What do I do, use the bottom shelf for the stone or steel if I were to get one, or place the stone/steel directly on top of the coils? I don't want to damage the coils.

Thanks, and I'll try not to forget to look back at this thread. It is very interesting.

Sally

Bottom rack, lowest position. I do that even with a hidden bake element. Wouldn't want to damage the oven's enamel, in fact many ovens specifically warn against putting anything on the bottom.

Sally, don't put it touching the coil.

Theoretically the stone will cool down the coil and make the coil last longer; however the stone can never make perfect contact with the coil everywhere.

The coil is a metal tube encasing a thin nickel/chromium heating wire, which is encased in ceramic insulating jacket. The design and the material are selected so that the differential thermal expansion/contraction will not cause the heating element to fail. By changing the design condition, anything can happen.

dcarch

We usually put the stone in the middle of the oven, pre-heat and switch to the broiler when sliding in the pizza.
(A link posted earlier uses the steel the same way.)
Following this method linked below.
" 1-Put the pizza stone on a rack in a gas oven about 8 inches from the broiler. Preheat the oven on bake at 500 degrees for 30 minutes."
(same for electric oven if you have a top broiler)
It has been a while since we use the outdoor wood fired grill in the summer heat and for that good fired flavor. More important is good quality ingredients and restraint. Not piles of cheap cheese and packaged pepperoni.

Here is a link that might be useful: no knead pizza dough

Okay, that's what I figured.

Sally

Trailrunner, here is a pix of the pizza. Almost forgot again to take a photo before the pizza was all eaten up.

Bruce just loves the way the crust cooks on the pizza pan.
I know it may seem pricey. With other stones for us by moving them back and forth we seem to break the stones. Figure the steel pizza pan is the cost of two stones.

The crust bakes so nice and crusty!

Annie, you have talked me into wanting a outdoor oven again. Idea, you get yours first and we will visit to see if its something we really want! Always a kitchen want!

I use a small granite slab, approx 10x14" and it's called a raclette. Like the cheese. Amazon has several. I use it for breads and look forward to using it for pizza. Just another option, since the subject came up.

Come to think of it, I don't know why I use the bottom rack. Must have read it somewhere. My problem often is the top being finished before the crust. I sometimes par bake he crust a bit; that helps but I prefer to avoid the extra step.

So I planned to buy a steel yesterday afternoon but didn't end up having time. Since it was already planned, we had pizza night anyway. One was a brunch pizza from the current issue of F&W. Creme fraiche, Brie, fresh mozz, bacon, slow-cooked scrambled eggs. Heavy but great; I'll definitely be making this again.

FOAS, keep your day job. LOL!

No one will hire you to throw pizzas. Best free-form pizza I have seen.

Not kidding. Our local pizza join makes very good pizzas, but I have never seen those guys throw pizzas or make sauce, I am assuming everything comes to them pre-made frozen and in cans.

I have seen how pizza dough is made perfectly round with massive machines.

It is my experience that people enjoy free-form pizzas more. I try to make mine not round.

That is a very interesting recipe. I will have to give it a try. Thanks for posting.

dcarch

LOL dcarch - try as I may, I cannot make a round pizza. Especially without a rolling pin which I couldn't find as I'm still in the midst of moving back into the kitchen. Took about 15 minutes just to find the stone. Talk about last minute panic! Around here perfectly round pizza is effortlessly stretched by hand in seconds. I think you need to be Italian!

I'm very interested to see if the steel improves my crust. Hopefully that will be answered within the next week or so. Thanks for the compliment! It was a great recipe, though better suited for a midday meal IMO. Eggs get added in the last minute or so, just to reheat without overcooking.

We had friday night pizza as well. A bit like my in-laws saturday soup....everything goes it that is in the fridge...or what makes sense.
When pressed for time i just use 12 inch tortillas. Super crispy and no dough-ball belly-aches.

Last nights ingredient pile of veg used string beans.
No need for a stone. Pre-heat 550 and place on top third of oven for crispy crust and top browning.
My old gas oven, a Roper from the Kennedy era, does a swell job.
(New ovens in the garage waiting for install. I might miss that gas Roper.)

So I took the drive to SLT and was disappointed to see that their steel is 14x14 rather than a more standard 14x16. I already don't like the 14" dimension on my stone (although I realize it's about as deep as reasonably fits in a residential oven) but I wasn't willing to sacrifice the width. I should have looked it up online first instead of assuming it would be a standard size. While there I doublechecked at bakingsteel, yes theirs are 14x16 and I and saw that for $20 more they have one that's 3/8" thick rather than 1/4". Might just go for that one for the heck of it,

I find there's a distinct difference that I prefer between pizzas I've cooked on a stone as opposed to a pan, and I hope I'll see added improvement with a steel.