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Holy Cow!

Posted by dcarch (My Page) on
Tue, Jul 31, 12 at 8:10

All the talk about beef, and the major historic power outage in India the past couple of days got me interested in taking a look at India.

I am wondering what is going to happen to food prices when 600 million people (almost 2x US population) will need to throw out their food because of no refrigeration.?

I was curious if there are any Pink Slime issues in India. Cow, being a holy animal to the Hindus, There is a ban on killing cows there, but I was very surprised that:

"This year, India will displace the United States as the world's third largest beef exporter, behind Brazil and Australia. In just the first half of 2012, India exported $1.24 billion worth of meat, and a 30 percent growth in revenue from 2010 exports is projected by the end of the year, according to a U.S. Beef Export Federation study.

While the bulk of Indian exports are buffalo meat bound for Middle East and Southeast Asian markets, the growing middle class in Arab countries has sparked a new craving for cow beef. The rise in demand could make India the world's king beef exporter by 2013, according to USDA estimates."

Currently, about 1.5 million cows are killed each year in India for exporting, that's about the same number of additional cows needed to be killed to make up the difference in beef in the US if Pink Slime is outlawed.

dcarch


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Holy Cow!

Dcarch,

You are obsessing over Pink Slime. Maybe, watch the Olympics instead of the news at night? Maybe, Pink Slime is being served in Olympic Village? Somehow, I doubt it but you never know - since it's NOT labeled. :)

Or, since you really seem to want this product to succeed..maybe, you could make it your life's dedication. Start handing out samples at Whole Foods with a fancy sauce. Contact a few well known chefs & get them to do a show featuring Pink Slime prepared 50 ways. Just be sure to label it properly & everybody will be happy.

/tricia


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RE: Holy Cow!

Hindus don't kill cows, but Muslims (who also live in India) do.
And I doubt 600 million people will be throwing out food because of no refrigeration, because I would bet that a large proportion of them don't have refrigeration in the first place.


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RE: Holy Cow!

My friend is from India -- she told me they don't keep much fresh food on hand, just what they need for a day or so.


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RE: Holy Cow!

That's what I was thinking. When I lived in Germany our fridge was tiny- about a 1/4 the size of the one we have now. It was the norm to walk to the store every day and get only what you need. I think that America is pretty unique in our food stocking- and wasting.


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RE: Holy Cow!

"I was curious if there are any Pink Slime issues in India." Really?

Power failure in India is not extraordinary big news. Happens all the time. Folks in India are used to it. Although granted this is a large outage. But, failure of their grid happens on a regular basis. In fact, it shaves about 2% off their GDP annually. India needs coal more than they need Pink Slime - they will be net importers soon, if not already. Might be a more financially lucrative use of your time to see what company might supply that coal? Might be an opportunity there to make more than enough to offset whatever more you conceive you'll be paying for unadultered beef? Just saying...

/tricia


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RE: Holy Cow!

Geesh, that should be "unadulterated" beef. I WILL overcome this stroke thing...it's just taking longer than I would like & longer, I'm sure, than those who read my posts would like. :(

/t


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RE: Holy Cow!

It's been estimated that only about 1/3 of the population in India have access to power to even light a bulb....and many that do have power are illegally connecting to the grid, which makes it further likely to go down. But happily the power outtages don't last long, like only a few hours so those who might have a refrigerator large enough to store meat would only be with refrigeration for a very short period. And because it happens so often, those that are dependent on the power grid have their own generators. it's the absence of things like street lights and cash registers that creates havoc.


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RE: Holy Cow!

You are doing just fine Tricia. I don't think anyone has a problem reading and understanding what you have to say.

~Ann


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RE: Holy Cow!

Here ya go,Dcarch.
Check out this site.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pink Slime


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RE: Holy Cow!

One of the most interesting things about food cultures I have heard was from a friend who lived in Germany for several years. She said people would go to the grocers/butchers and buy two slices of bacon. All the time!


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RE: Holy Cow!

I found it even more surprising that in Europe many grocery stores are not open evenings or Sundays, and in many places are only open for a half-day on Saturday. I don't know how people manage to work and shop. Perhaps this has changed recently?

Cheryl


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RE: Holy Cow!

Posted by colleenoz "Hindus don't kill cows, but Muslims (who also live in India) do.
And I doubt 600 million people will be throwing out food because of no refrigeration, because I would bet that a large proportion of them don't have refrigeration in the first place."

I think you are probably correct about the Muslim population. I have been to a few banquets which many Indian guests were invited; of course no one ever ate beef. I understand that many states in India, there are laws prohibiting killing cows.

I am not sure how many people have no refrigeration in India. Today India is one of the largest economies in the world with a good portion of the population classified as middle class.

ynnej and Petaloid, now that you mentioned it, I remember when I was in Pairs, I shopped for every meal and the apartment I was in had a very tiny kitchen, which was typical.

lbpod; Thank you for the link. I have said I don't wish to make this a discussion about LFTB a food safety issue. There are so many groups with their agendas, and motives to make their various claims and blames, anyone who has a bias has no problem finding something to quote from.

I believe all the reliable expert information is out there. I am not sure who is Aziz Poonawalla other than the fact that he is a Muslim. I am not sure he has any qualifications to make me want to rely my judgement on, certainly not over all the experts and scientist at various food safety agencies and the demonstrated record of 300 billion safe meals served. I will point out, however, Aziz did say in the link "Beef Product Inc's safety record ---is now admirable"

Posted by triciae "Dcarch, You are obsessing over Pink Slime. Maybe, watch the Olympics instead of the news at night? Maybe, Pink Slime is being served in Olympic Village? Somehow, I doubt it but you never know - since it's NOT labeled. :) Or, since you really seem to want this product to succeed..maybe, you could make it your life's dedication. Start handing out samples at Whole Foods with a fancy sauce. Contact a few well known chefs & get them to do a show featuring Pink Slime prepared 50 ways. Just be sure to label it properly & everybody will be happy. /tricia "

Obsessed? Maybe. Possessed? More accurately. LOL!

Having lived on a farm, I understand life, birth, and death are part of nature. I am a meat lover, I have slaughtered many animals for food. Not preaching anything, I am possessed by my own view of meat eating, which is basically taken out a page from Native American traditions:

" When Native Americans killed a game animal for food, they would routinely offer a prayer of thanks to the animal's spirit for giving its life so that they could live. In our world, life feeds off life. Destruction is always balanced with generation. This is a good thing: unchecked, the life force becomes cancerous."

Based on that, I have been benefited with very good health, tasty food and lots of money saved.

No, it is not that I want this product to succeed, it is just that I do not want to be a coconspirator to an highly irresponsible media network, who is responsible for causing immense suffering to many family to be unemployed, 1.5 million cows to be unnecessarily killed, untold millions of food price increases to those who can't afford them, and obesity in children who cannot be benefited from 94% lean beef as part of their food.

"I was curious if there are any Pink Slime issues in India." Really?
Power failure in India is not extraordinary big news. Happens all the time-------- Might be an opportunity there to make more than enough to offset whatever more you conceive you'll be paying for unadultered beef? Just saying... "

Yes, really. India power outage is common, but not to this historic scale which affected 600 million people. I am interested in it because of the compound chain reaction which might happen if it effects food prices, US is a supplier of food to India, and 65% of US is in severe drought alert with anticipated 5% food price increase. Then you add on top price increase because you have to throw away 1.5 million cows, who knows!

I have said it more than once, a manufacturer is not require to label what is not required by law, The government should change it's position that, even "Pink Slime" is 100% safe, 100% beef, it should be correctly labeled on any products if it is part of the composition of the food. A food company should not have to go bankrupt because the government did not do what the population desires.

dcarch


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RE: Holy Cow!

I will point out, however, Aziz did say in the link "Beef Product Inc's safety record ---is now admirable"

Finish the quote.....you have taken it out of context.
"Some people are concerned about food safety, given the pathogenic nature of the raw material used by BPI to make the product. Its safety record, though now admirable, was somewhat more troubling between 2005 and 2009 when E. coli and salmonella were repeatedly found in its product, as reported by the New York Times.

As for the 650 that lost their jobs at BPI, Every worker is at risk of their employer being shut down for a turn in the market for the product.


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RE: Holy Cow!

And what is your point?

How is 2005 and 2009 relevant to 2012? The year the Pink Slime become an issue?

Has anyone reported that of the 300 billion meals served, none has caused problems?

Has anyone checked the USDA's food recall records, that food recalls are very common in the US food industry? there is practically one everyday. Finding some problems is not a major event.

dcarch


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RE: Holy Cow!

Here is a food recall list in the US for the past few days.

You might as well shut down the entire country's food business.

dcarch

Here is a link that might be useful: recalls


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RE: Holy Cow!

Refrigeration is not nearly as large an issue when your stored food is not meat or dairy, and Hindu's promote a vegetarian lifestyle.


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RE: Holy Cow!

As I have mentioned before, I don't think it's necessarily the government's job to keep us safe or informed. If manufacturers dealt with honesty and integrity, they would label their products, rendering the necessity for government oversight unnecessary.

Just because the government doesn't require it does not relieve a company or manufacturer from the responsibility of correctly labelling a food product, at least there should be a moral responsibility even without a legal one.

Of course, that would require those manufacturers to be fair and honest...

And, although I'm a beef farmer, daughter of a beef farmer and granddaughter of a beef farmer AND part Native American, I still think we eat far too much beef. A serving is 4 ounces. Our penchant for large servings of beef (and other things) is unhealthy, unsustainable and unwise.

Annie


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RE: Holy Cow!

I agree with soonergrandmom and Annie.

We eat 37 times more meat than Indians, about 1.5 times more than Europeans.

dcarch


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RE: Holy Cow!

What it all boils down to is, Americans found out what BPI was putting into the "ground beef" they were selling to the schools, to McDonalds, putting into tubes of 90% lean beef, into premade meat patties.....and they don't like it. They have discovered that what they thought was muscle meat is in reality a large percentage of ground up gristle and connective tissue, so prone to contamination that it must be sterilized with ammonia, and they don't like it and won't buy it.
I certainly don't blame the press, the activists and the chefs for blowing the whistle. Remember, if you are always completely transparent, there is nothing to be feared.


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RE: Holy Cow!

When Native Americans killed a game animal for food, they would routinely offer a prayer of thanks to the animal's spirit for giving its life so that they could live.

Lotta good that does the animal, huh? That's not to belittle to power of prayer in any way. You gave me an idea though. Maybe I'll start praying every time I eat ground beef, thanking the 650 workers for their sacrifice when my supermarket opted not to sell me mislabeled hamburger, and asking the Lord to help them find alternative suitable employment.


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RE: Holy Cow!

I don't think they're expecting the prayer to benefit the animal. Just showing their appreciation. I think many of us are so far removed from the animals we eat. I'm sure many people who raise and slaughter their own animals offer some form of thanks as they look into their eyes for the last time.


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RE: Holy Cow!

This has nothing to do with the production of food,
but along the lines of your thinking, Dcarch:

If the entire United States Of America banned 'bath salts',
then would you defend the bath salt industry?, claiming
that 650, (or however many there are), are now out of work?
and we should rethink this ban?
And yes, I am comparing apples to apples.
TINKABOTIT.


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RE: Holy Cow!

LindaC, "What it all boils down to is, Americans found out what BPI was putting into the "ground beef" they were selling to the schools, to McDonalds, putting into tubes of 90% lean beef, into premade meat patties.....and they don't like it. They have discovered that what they thought was muscle meat is in reality a large percentage of ground up gristle and connective tissue, so prone to contamination that it must be sterilized with ammonia, and they don't like it and won't buy it.
I certainly don't blame the press, the activists and the chefs for blowing the whistle. Remember, if you are always completely transparent, there is nothing to be feared.?

Not even close. What it really boils down to is, Americans found out what ABC’S DISTORTED REPORTING of what LFTB really is, which is 100% pure beef, free of pathogenic organisms, the word "slime" should not have been used for responsible reporting.

I am surprised, of all the people, you the Queen of Googling, have complete been taken in by this kind of reporting, without checking facts.

You actually believe that there is ." the sinew, connective tissue and other parts that aren't roasts or chops or able to be ground into 85% or leaner ground beef." You could have only gotten that information from ABC, because those are not in LFTB.

You actually believe that LFTB is the only food uses Ammonia (and chlorine, where do you get chlorine?!), and that kitchen poisonous Ammonia detergent is, as demonstrated by Jamie Oliver (check it out on youtube) poured on the meat to sanitize the meat!

If you are not so brain washed by ABC you would have picked up the question he was asking the audience is very leading:

"The scrap is nornally used for dog food, do you want to feed your children dog food?"

What does LFTB has to do with real dog food?

If you are not committing "Confirmation Bias" you would have picked up what he said in the same video, "I haven't got anything against (Slime) burgers, I have no problem eating the burgers, I eat them and I love them, the problem is where they come from and what (Ammonia kitchen detergent) is in them".

I will not comment on your characterization that Mexicans, Guatemalans and Somalis are by nature filthy and irresponsible.

McDonalds, do you actually think that they did not do extensive studies before they started to use LFTB?
Yes, LFTB is cheaper, but they found LFTB is more sanitary then regular ground beef, it is also leaner, and above all, taste tests showed customers prefer LFTB over regular ground beef.

You object to BPI's making a healthy profit selling LFTB selling a healthy product, but you have no problem with ABC's attempt in gaining ratings using malicious means to destroy a viable business. NBC and CBS only mentioned the issue a couple of times and ABC repeated the same thing 10 different times.

Freedom of speech does not permit libel. Drawing a swastika on a wall is not protected by freedom of speech.

"It's OK for ABC's distorted reporting, because it has accomplished a good thing"

Does the end justify the means? Don't ask me, Hafez al-Assad, Saddam Hussein, and Osama bin Laden can probably give you a better answer.

Scrapple is made from parts also used in dog food, go ahead and have it banned.

There is nothing untrue about the following statement, but is it responsible journalism if I was to report it the following manner:?

OMG! Alarming! Disgusting! Do you know and have you seen in Italy, what they are making? Green mold, and fungus completely covered pork intestines with pork slime inside, rotting with bacteria for months at room temperature!! They sell those to you for high prices and, get this; they even ask you to eat them totally uncooked? Mamma Mia! tanto per tali rifiuti!

dcarch


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RE: Holy Cow!

lbpod, I think you have missed the issues I am raising:

1. LFTB has been inaccurately described.

2. ABC has done a much distorted journalistic reporting.

3. Media irresponsible reporting can be very damaging.

4. Personal food aesthetic preferences should not dictate other's freedom of choice in food.

dcarch


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RE: Holy Cow!

I agree, everyone should have their freedom of choice, but I have no freedom of choice if I don't know what's in the package because the companies refuse to disclose what's in there.

As for dog food, my dog eats what I eat. Many people have a problem with that, including those who believe the dog food companies' claims that human food is bad for dogs. Again, it's my choise and I won't feed him pink slime either. He had sirloin tips for supper, grass fed and organic and properly labelled as such by my friendly neighborhood meat cutter who processes my beef.

I don't believe I should have to grow it myself just to know what's in it. It has nothing to do with ABC or pink slime or journalism, just the ability to know what I'm paying for.

Annie


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RE: Holy Cow!

My brother is proud as can be that he feeds his dog a kibble that contains no corn or soy. He railed on my mom when she watched it one night and fed it table scraps. Funny thing is, the two longest living dogs in the world ate nothing but their owners' food. But anyways, these pink slime debates seem to be turning a little personal. I think it's time we talk about America's health care system instead. Just kidding. Please don't.


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RE: Holy Cow!

Wow Dcarch, you are pretty worked up over this. I actually did go look for the studies and tests and the only thing I could find was the Iowa University study. I am not a scientist but what I took away was that it was safe and a form of protein but the process that breaks down the gristle didn't exactly turn it into beef. That is probably why it looks like pink slime. LOL

I understand all your rantings about our crappy "news" reporters. They are all corporate shills in my opinion. It is all about money for the share holders via ratings, nothing to do with reporting for the good of the people. I only saw one special about the pink slime. I witnessed a hose similar to a fire hose blasting off the last bits of the carcass all over the floor. I am sure their floor was sanitary and the chemicals made the product "safe" to consume, but for me it was just one more eye opening look at our food industry. A lot of the links I found in my search were about how safe this ammonia product is because they have been using it all over our food since 1974. That must make it perfectly fine. LOL NOT!!!

I absolutely hate the fact that the corportions have bought off all of our law makers on both sides. I am furious that we can't get a law passed to force them to label GMO products. Maybe we can get ABC to do an expose on Monsanto or GMOs. I only learned about GMOs from this forum. That is pretty sad that it has been going on since 94 and the majority of the American public knows nothing about it.

I can understand getting upset about factories shutting down since I am dealing with outsourcing at my present employer. It sucks but the corporations do not care about people, only profits. If those factories cared about their employees they would look at where the industry is going and what people actually want and then modify their product accordingly. You were complaining that we should not "shut down factories that make safe products". But here is the thing Dcarch, no one shut it down! They were not even forced to label their product.

The "People" actually spoke with their wallet. I am really encouraged that enough people got worked up about it. I wish we could channel that outrage to the GMO products.

So the end result for me was that I went out and bought the grinder attachment for my Kitchenaid. I tried Michael Symon's blend and Rachael Ray's. And let me just say, I have no idea what I have been eating all my life but that first burger made from home ground sirlion, brisket, and short ribs was beyond amazing. It tasted like steak! I was dumb founded. I never knew what I had been missing all these years. I plan to try grinding turkey this weekend.

So I don't believe I was fooled or mislead by ABC news. I think they did me a huge favor. And I am not a health nut by any stretch of the imagination. I was once told that if I read the ingredients on a hot dog I would never eat another one. So I just ignore the label. LOL

I love that the people stood up and were heard when our law makers and corporations just hoped we would go away and eat whatever they decided was safe enough for us and profitable enough for them.

So in the spirit of "Sticking it to the man", I will be grinding my own meat from this day forward. And that is not because I believe pink slime will kill me, it is because I am pissed off at the covert manipulation of our food supply.


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RE: Holy Cow!

joanm, Thank you for your balanced view of the issues involved.

ABC's reporting may not do you damage because you have the sophistication to check facts, regrettably that is not the general public's way. I am shocked at what many people's understanding of what the whole thing is all about.

I am not even going to say if I agree or disagree if Ammonia is good for health because it is not relevant to my discussion here. BPI followed what our government has set as safety standards, and they have in general performed better than those standards. If that is not deemed safe for you, the right thing to do is go to the government and get changes made there, or select a new government. To tear apart BPI is just not right to me, I believe.

I am not really worked up about anything except one, if LFTB is in fact harmless, and is eliminated from the food supply, them 1.5 million cows will be dying for nothing to make up for the supply. If you line up 1.5 million cows end to end, the line will go from California to New York, across the USA, that many cows die for nothing, that bothers me. As I said I have killed many animals for food, I see what they have to go thru.

dcarch


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