Thank you all so much for the input, appreciate it. I think I am more interested in knowing the specifics of the fruit traits. I want to use as a lemon/lime/Seville sour orange substitute for the juice for salad dressings, drinks, seafood seasoning. I can definitely wrap it up in burlap and such even xmas lights for the first couple seasons or bring it indoors like the rest of my citrus the first couple winters. Eventually though I want to plant it in warm microclimate spot I have for it in zone7a. I assume all these have fragrant blossoms typical of citrus which is also a requirement? I did get to speak with Mckenzie farms forgot to ask if these all have fragrant blossoms or if any stand out for blossom fragrance. I think Ichang may have the largest and most fragrant blossoms. But the others should have fragrant blossoms too? So basically the most important thing to me to is: juice quantity, juice quality (no offtastes/bitterness/astringency or extremely little), and blossom fragrance. Here are my notes based on sleuthing: Yuzu- Only real problem is here is juice content is so small- sounds like a teaspoon per fruit due to both small fruit (think 4,5 cm diameter tangerines as standard size) and also very thick peel, lots of seed, and occasionally dry. I am confident the QUALITY of the sour juice is good--as it is a classic culinary juice. Aromatic, zesty juice. The rind is awesome on these, but I have no interest in rind. It sounds like per fruit it's almost a 1:6 ratio Yuzu juice to lime. Do I really want to be juicing 6 fruit every time I can just a lime or one of the below 2? Maybe if the juice is that awesome--which it could be. Shangjuan/Ichang lemon- Large fruit with 1/2 cup sour juice! Very seedy, thick peel, but still gives 1/2 cup sour juice which is a lot. The quality is suspect--some say it can used as lemon, some say it is way too sour and caustic like straight up vinegar with no citrusy flavor/zest/aroma. So maybe juice quantity over quality on this one. Also I think I read it doesn't keep well? Thomasville Citrangequat- seems like the best option and a compromise. A 4cm x6cm fruit rough standard size (close to size as Yuzu, but oblong shape) but is juicy, not insanely thick skin, not insanely seedy. Not sure how much juice it offers per fruit--but is described as juicy and I'm sure it is more juice at least than the Yuzu. The quality sounds good too and may be like the Seville sour orange with some orangey flavor in the sour juice. My main concern with this one is if it's only juicy when RIPE--to my knowledge citrus gets juicier as it gets ripe. Most people suggest using underripe Thomasville as lemon substitute--are these relativey DRY sour wedges though? The descriptions of juicy are surely describing the truly ripe fruit which I will not count on getting in zone 7a nor do I desire. I want something that is juicy when it is sour (like a lemon/lime/Seville sour orange), not dry when it is sour because the sourness is due to underripeness (like an underripe standard sweet orange--those are a bit dry.). So overall, I think thomasville wins for me, but a taste test would help since I'm nitpicking on the quality traits--I may try to taste test some in November. Also thomasville sounds like it's a half notch hardier than Ichang. If anyone else has anymore info or thoughts that would be great. Remaining questions- Blossom fragrances? How much juice can you get from a sour underripe thomasville?

Instant pectin? There is powdered pectin or liquid pectin. Which form and brand name do you have? As a general guide you can add powdered pectin to any recipe but not liquid pectin. But normally it is used only when specified by the recipe. They are not interchangeable. You can use fresh lime or lemon juice when making jams and jellies because they are not there for safety reason (with a couple of exceptions). They are included to make the jam/jelly set. But when the lemon/lime juice is used for acidification reasons, such as when canning tomatoes, then bottled juices only. Fresh lemons and limes have a wide range of pH, bottled juices are stabilized with a fixed pH. Dave

Grainlady, I think the Cook's Thesaurus is just trying to substitute as an Asian flavor, but not for the same flavor as lemongrass. In other words, forget that Cook's Thesaurus and read Lar's post again. He is right. Just because it's called Lemongrass, it has no relation to lemon and lime. Lemongrass tastes and smells differently than lemon and lime zests. Although, lemon/lime zests and leaves accompany with lemongrass and ginger quite well in many asian dishes, they are still not a substitution for lemongrass. They don't smell the same and they don't taste the same. Lemongrass is basically... grass! It grows like grass too. Remembering from my childhood in Vietnam. One time we moved temporarily in this house that sat in front of a large tall grass field. I was amazed at the site of this field because we didn't normally see grass growing in large field like we see here in the US. Well, it didn't take long for my mom to realized it was a Lemongrass field thay got out of hand and grew wildly. That was when I learned how lemongrass grew... in abundance! Words spreaded around quickly and within a few months, the field was emptied. My mom had to claim part of the field in order to keep them growing for family cooking. Anyway, you sure brought back some fond childhood memories, thanks.

Lafonda, are you concerned that EQ can't do what you want? It can - there is a custom layout feature and you can create custom block sizes and plop them wherever you want. I Googled "Quilt design software" and the first dozen or so responses are about EQ, but apparently Quilt Pro is still available. Something called Pattern Jam came up, too. Donna