I once read, "food at its best blends art and science".
However, knowing the science will help you when developing recipes. It also helps if you use judging standards we use for judging baked goods at fairs (see the link below) to know how to alter the recipe for different results.

I have a form I made years ago I use when I develop recipes. I use judging standards for corrections and revisions. Some recipes may have many generations to a single recipe I've worked on, so they are filed together. I always keep in mind how Sarah Phillips (Baking 9-1-1) made a white cake 100 times before it was "just right". That's why I track my results on paper.

On one half of the sheet I include the original recipe - whether it is something I am developing or something I am altering from another source. On the other half of the page I have spaces for ingredient changes, results, next time (what I might change/alter/add/reduce/eliminate), notes.

FYI

-If your starter doesn't double in bulk when fed, then it won't raise your bread. Adding some baker's yeast was a good move, but the additional sugar was unnecessary since there is more than enough carbohydrates in the flour to feed yeast.

-Most baking is a ratio of one ingredient to another between tenderizers (fat and sugar) and structure builders (flour and eggs). A standard plain cake has by measure, 1/3 as much fat as sugar, 2/3 as much milk as sugar, and about 3 times as much flour as liquid. As an example, when you reduce fat and sugar you sacrifice some tenderness. Liquid fats react one way, while creamed solid fats react another way. Understand the basics of cake types - shortened, unshortened and chiffon (a hybrid of shortened and unshortened cakes).

-There is also a lot of logic, such as baking at the right temperature, which allows the inside of a batter to bake or dough to set before the outside browns too much. A high sugar content delays that setting, therefore we bake fine cakes and sweet yeast breads at lower temperatures (350-375-degrees F) than leaner batters and doughs (400-425-degrees F). Baking yeast breads at lower temperatures (325-350-degrees F) creates a thicker, chewier crust; while higher temperatures (375-425-degrees F) produces thinner, crisper crust.

-General rules for bread baking:
*Yeast dies at 140-degrees F
*Starches begin to gelatinize between 140- and 160-degrees F
*Bake to an internal temperature of 200-210-degrees F
*Under-baked products will taste starchy
*Well-baked products will taste sweet
*Over-proofed bread will have a vinegar-like flavor
*Cool to an internal temperature of 90-100-degrees F; then wrap
*Products will dry out quicker if cooled below 90-100-degrees F before being wrapped

-When is it done???
*Layer cakes - 205-210F
*Pound cake - 210F
*Jelly roll - 190-195F
*Muffins - 210F
*Quick Breads - 210F
*Yeast Breads - 195-210F
*Bundt Cake - 212F
*Yeast Rolls - 190-195F
*Pumpkin Pie - 175F
*Sweet, egg-rich breads - 180-190F
*Soft sandwich bread - 195F

If you need a summer reading list that will increase your baking science knowledge:

-"CookWise" and "BakeWise" by Shirley O. Corriher

-"On Food and Cooking", "Keys to Good Cooking - A Guide to Making the Best of Foods and Recipes" , "The Curious Cook", by Harold McGee

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Food Judging Standards

Grainlady, thanks for the primer!

I think I'm kind of glad I didn't know your standard cake proportions when I started baking them improvisationally because I learned a lot. :) I was baking in a covered ring pot over an open flame, and since I knew how to bake a cake, I just put in what I thought it needed for the flour, sugar and fat. My rule of thumb was put in everything you know goes into cake, don't forget the baking powder, though it doesn't matter too much how much baking powder (it came in little packets that were never the right amount), and add whatever is tasty or needs using up. Then, if it looks like cake batter (right consistency), tastes like cake batter, and has baking powder, it's a cake. This is not about reproducible results. :) Just about having some dessert. It's harder with an oven (ring pot rule--if it smells good, it's probably done), but the same batter rules still work. :)

That said, I have a few actual cake recipes that are my go-to's. One for its crowd pleasing moistness, one for its perfect crumb, and one for it's amazing chocolateation.

As I said, I've been nurturing my starter. It was having some issues, so I spent a long time correcting it. The one I used for the rocks was doubling, but then I think it got a bit leggy when I fed it up to use. After I separated out the part for the rocks, I noticed it was back to almost doubling, but it doubled before. I think the problem was more about the recipe/directions. It's very active, and now that it's stabilized again, I've reduced it and will try thickening it to see if that gives it more structure.

This morning, last night's (unfed) discard jar was running over again. The kitchen has been very warm, which, I'm sure, helps, but even when it's sinking, the starter is very active. Since I was reducing there was a lot of discard, and when it's so bubbly it's hard to throw it away. I had a better idea of what it was, however. I looked at some recipes, and just used the discard as soaked flour. Added in AP to fill it out. Kneaded to a nice well stretched ball. This should be a nice bread.

Yesterday's results weren't worthy of judging. I was mightily impressed, however, when just messing with it all day, and throwing stuff randomly at it, turned into actual, edible bread.

Were you baking in a Swedish Omnia Oven? They hold cake recipes designed for an 8x8-inch pan or a 9x5-inch loaf pan. We made a lot of "Wacky Cakes" in the Omnia.

WACKY CAKE
(This snack cake recipe is designed to be mixed in the pan, but for the Omnia mix it in a bowl.)

1-1/2 c. soft white whole wheat flour
1 t. soda
1 t. salt
3 T. cocoa powder
1 T. vinegar
2 t. vanilla
5 T. butter, melted (or coconut oil)
2/3 c. agave nectar, palm sugar nectar or honey
1/3 c. cold water

For spice cake, omit cocoa powder and add 1/2 t. Penzeys Cake Spice.

No, it wasn't the Swedish Omnia Oven, but the same kind of thing. I think the general design originally comes from Northern Europe, so they're probably related. :) It was all aluminum, with a copper flame condenser, called a "sir peleh" or "wonder pot", and I think mine was smaller than the Omnia pictured. I had no idea there were other versions! I've always wondered why people didn't use one for extended camping, or in places where they didn't have ovens, because it works great. I made the Toll House recipe as bar cookies using fork split chocolate, and they came out great. Did the same thing, and stirred midway through the cook, and they turned into brownies. Plus, it made great strata, and egg bakes. (I was vegetarian (lacto-ovo) at the time, but I've heard it makes great baked chicken too.

Re tossing starter, you have to remember than mine are very young. Prior to yesterday's experiment, I'd only had one jar full of division that I was sure was hale. It's in the fridge. :) The discard jar yesterday was going to go in the fridge, but it was too alive and bubbly to just toss aside. This is the first time the divided portion grew. Overnight, the next portion grew even more! Yesterday, I was trying to make the bubbles grow and only resorted to the yeast when I realized I wasn't getting anywhere. I wasn't surprised. It was the unfed part of the starter. I just wanted to see what would happen.

I'm decreasing my volume now, so have had a lot to pull off. I have a very nice, half white dough ball in the fridge from this morning, doing a slow rise, which will be rolls, I think. So, I've decreased the amount of water in the feeding by a quarter to see if that helps the loft. If that doesn't work, I'll increase the proportion of flour to starter.

I have struggled with the too-dense, holes-too-small issue, especially as the whole wheat portion increases. TFL, to which this forum has referred me, has much to say about overproofing, which is, I am fairly certain, at least part of my problem. Trying again today. Especially loved a thread from a few years back (which, it turns out, was started by our own Trailrunner!), which included the emergency question, "Wait, now I can't figure out which step I'm on." LOL!!!

LOL!! KD, that's great!

This loaf was definitely dense, but, as I said, it tastes good. It's definitely bread. :) I've been forcing myself not to eat more of it. :)

We'll see how the properly developed dough ball turns out....

Restricting the water seems to be working. Not only is the starter rising higher faster, but the side bubbles look stronger.

I think using up my mixed starter discards is very freeing. It's not purpose made recipes. It's not 100% whole wheat. It's just baking. While I did, more or less, measure for today's dough, and knead, and all, it was still pretty freehand, just using the recipe as a guide. Now that I've made a yeast bread just winging it, I think I want to do more of them. Maybe not that wild, but learn to make breads like my improvised cakes. I never would have guessed it was possible, but I think now that it is. :)

pllog, it's definitely possible. I made my first loaf when I was 7 years old, Grandma did everything by "the way it feels". Sometimes you need more liquid, sometimes more flour. Eggs and milk make a different texture than just water and no fat. Slack doughs make bigger holes but are harder to make a free form loaf. I still make most of my bread slap-dash, by the way it feels or the way it looks.

Cookies, cakes and jams often get made the same way. The downside is that I don't always remember exactly what I put in, and then I can't recreate it!

Annie

Oh, Annie, thanks so much for the encouragement! My good bread recipes are all ones where you have to figure out as you're going how much flour it needs, etc., so that part is familiar. And I know how to make my mother's challah recipe with eggs, milk, butter and saffron (though I can make it dairy free as well), and crunchy crusty bread with no fat at all. But I want to learn to make breads just from feel like you do. :)

I sometimes forget to write things down, but I have a cooking buddy, so when I make something new, I e-mail her before I forget and tell her what I did. It's easier than writing out a recipe for something that was just made by guess. :)

Your bread would have been perfect with our soup tonight. We were wishing for some 'real' bread...something hefty. DH picked up some rolls from the grocery store bakery...they folded their white dinner roll dough over some cheese and called it focaccia.

Ssssshhhhhhhhh. I've been experimenting with the discarded parts, too.

Good Grief! Katiec, why do people do that? "Cheesy dinner rolls" sounds fine and like it would sell well. If I were going to describe focaccia, I'd say wide, flat, dense, dimpled, olive oil, salt, rosemary. You can put lots of other stuff, including cheese, on top of it, but toppings don't make the bread. It's a different thing altogether from rolls. I wish I could have transported some of my improv bread to you. :)

KD, I have jars! But the starters are back to doubling now that I've reduced the water. I'm hoping to get my dough ball baked today, and am hoping the amount I reduced will hold well in the fridge. So far so good. Do share when your secrets are ready for airing!

Well rain that has been impending all afternoon finally arrived - so I gave up on my garden soil prep. Now I have an improvised dough of my own on it's second rise. Half will be baked tonight and the rest in a couple of days. Mix of wheat and rye flours from the local gristmill with last bit of KA bread flour. Perfect rainy weather project.

Cool! Agmss, will you share how you improvised?

I made Forkish's pain de Campagne, except that I $crewed up the recipe righteously by adding at least twice as much salt as was called for and way more liquid, by adding in discarded starter as some of the water. The dough was ridiculously wet, but I had read that whole wheat absorbs more water, so I allowed it to stay super wet by resisting the temptation to fold it more times. DH said he didn't want whole wheat and I figured I could turn it into bread crumbs, so I went ahead and baked it. Lo and behold, the two best boules I have baked to date. Actually tasted like real pain de Campagne, big holes, wonderful tooth. I cannot figure out how it happened. And DH loved it.

Congratulations, KD, on the great bread. At least you know kind of how you did it, so you can maybe try to recreate it. Mine seldom comes out the same twice in a row because I just can't seem to follow instructions, not even my own, LOL. It's always pretty good bread, though.

Annie

Wow! Congrats, KD!! I love it when that kind of stuff happens. :)

I did the opposite. Everyone keeps telling me I can substitute the discard for the same amount of water and flour in any old recipe, but whole wheat really is different. I used a recipe for white as a basic guide for the dough ball, but I think it wasn't wet enough. It was well risen, though, so I made rolls. They came out with a hard crust (I was aiming for crunchy) like good old fashioned bolillos. (Isn't it weird that all the old time tough crusts like bagels, pita and bolillos have gone by the wayside just as people's teeth have gotten so much better?) The inside is nice and tender, but I think they would have been better larger, with more soft crumb per hard crust. OTOH, I only know for sure because one fell on the floor as I was taking it out of the oven, so, of course, I had to eat it right away. :)