Return to the Cooking Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Posted by happs (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 30, 11 at 4:28

I usually find good quality 24oz whole grain and sourdough loaves of bread in the markdown section of my local grocery store for $1.99. I know that you can buy a high quality 5lb package of whole grain flour for $5. I have never made homemade bread before and was wondering if the ingredients' cost, time, effort and labor involved is more or less than buying a whole grain wheat loaf for $1.99? How about with a bread maker? Is making a loaf of bread using a bread maker pretty much effortless? Do I have to purchase special bread maker flour? Does sourdough flour exist or is there no such thing because of the live and active starter required?

I'm trying to determine what is the most cost effective way to obtain bread.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Sorry, but there is no sourdough flour as yet. The sourdough starter consists of dried or live organisms sustained with flour and water and can be maintained in your home environment for a long time....years in fact. There are sources on the web where you can obtain dried starter through the mail.

Having baked and sold homemade breads at a farmers' market for the past two years, I can tell you that you can make homemade bread for substantially less cost than you can buy it. You can bake bread for even less if you seek out sources to purchase flour in 25 lb. bags and have space in your home to store it properly. One recipe I use makes 3 medium sized oval loaves for less than $1. I can get the large bags of organic unbleached and organic 100% whole wheat from a local source in my area. I use Brita filtered water, bulk yeast (SAF), honey, canola oil and other basic natural ingredients. My 100% whole wheat loaves are priced nearly the same for the same recipe made in a commercial quality bakery in a nearby town.

Teresa

Here is a link that might be useful: New York Bakers starter


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

The "good quality" bread you are finding in your supermarket's markdown section might be good quality compared to the other commercial breads they carry, but the bread you make at home will be substantially better. No additives or preservative, just basic quality ingredients. Your homemade bread will have a substantially shorter shelf life, but it will be so delicious that it won't last long anyway..... and any leftover bits can be made into breadcrumbs.

Like many others here, I mostly use my bread machine to make and rise the dough, then transfer to the oven for the last rise and bake. I use the machine 2-3 times a week and it's lasted 10+ years.

It's effortless now, I rarely even measure anymore, but there was a short learning curve. You'll want to check the dough in the beginning to be sure it isn't too wet/dry, you can experiment with adding grains and seeds and sweeteners like honey or maple syrup. It's a fun learning curve!
AM


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

For a beginner who would like to give bread making a try without a lot of investment, I'd suggest the no-knead recipes found in the book "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day". (See the link below.) Check your local library for a copy of the book.

You could also buy a box of Pillsbury Hot Roll Mix at the store and make it into a loaf of bread, dinner rolls, or cinnamon rolls and see if you like the process.

Do a Google search - care and feeding of sourdough starter - to catch a glimpse of how entailed sourdough breads are.

I make all my bread, and have for many years because it's less expensive and I can control the ingredients I use. I also mill my own flour for even greater savings and significant health benefits over commercial flour. I can make 2-pounds+ of dough for about 50-cents. I use a bread machine for making dough, because of some physical limitations these days, but never bake in it. Bread machines aren't "effortless", but they ARE great labor-saving devises. You still have to measure all the ingredients and load them into the bread machine. Then you have to check the mixture to make sure the hydration is correct and adjust it if it's not.

I don't bake in the bread machine so I form the dough, see it through the final proof and bake it. If you buy bread mixes for the bread machine, that's the most expensive way to make bread.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Also the same folks have written a book called 'Heatlhy Bread in Five Minutes a Day' which we have greatly enjoyed. I baked bread before but since investing in this I visited the nearest restaurant supply store and bought three plastic storage containers suitable for the amount of flour I thought we could manage at one time. Then went to Winco and bought enough bulk flours to fill them along with bulk yeast. So far so good. I love not being restricted to the overpriced breads at the grocery and health food store not to mention the control of deciding what is in the bread you eat.

Kate


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

I have made many different types of homemade bread both with and without a bread machine. The bread tastes wonderful to me but I find after a day or so my family won't eat it because since there are no preservatives it gets stale very quickly. They also don't want to bother with slicing it by hand. So you can all laugh and make fun but that is the truth. I don't make it very often anymore except for special occasions because even though it is less expensive in the long run store bought bread is what my family prefers! That often used phrase about the wonders of sliced bread is apparently true!
Joann


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Shelf life is a consideration if cost is your primary concern. Plus, your time is worth something!

I have had periods where I made all my own bread, and periods when I couldn't be bothered. There is very good bread available, if cost isn't as important an issue as time. Not that it really takes so much actual time to make bread, but since there is the rising and baking time to consider, you have to be somewhat available even though you are not actively manipulating the dough. Refrigerating dough can help in terms of schedule flexibility, but the process still does require you to plan your time.

It is true that home made bread is so good that it might not have time to grow stale...but, if you require a steady, always available supply, the faster it disappears, the more frequently you must bake. For myself, the fact that it gets stale so much more quickly doesn't really signify, as I simply switch to toast, but then, I do not have to provide sandwiches for school/work lunches, or please anyone but myself.

Freezing smaller, already baked loaves or rolls helps with this problem, but of course there is freezer space to consider.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

ghoghunter - slice the bread when it is cool. Put each in a plastic sandwich bag. Keep in refrigerator. Zap in microwave for 15 sec or so (not in bags) on defrost setting. Tastes just like fresh.

I always had the opposite problem with my family - they sliced them 1 1/2" to 2" thick and the loaves were gone quicker than it took to make them. Now with an older family, I make mini loaves and cut the recipe in half for the perfect amount.

Nancy


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

We are just a family of 3 and aren't huge bread eaters, but I still bake my own. DS and DH still need to take a sandwich for lunch every day. And once every week or two, we have sandwiches for dinner.

I agree with pretty much all of the above comments. It does go stale more quickly, and if it's not pre-sliced, nobody eats it.

I bake one very large loaf of light rye every week. When cool, I cut the whole loaf into slices and put one half of the slices in the freezer for later that week. Bread freezes very well.

I'll actually be starting my first sourdough starter next week. I've been wanting to do it for some time now, and next week I'll actually have the time to give it the daily attention that it needs.

I haven't done the math, but I'm quite certain I'm coming out ahead with the homemade bread. Both nutritionally, and financially.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

I bake the Honey Whole Wheat regularly. Also no-knead artisan bread, but not as often.

Bread slices easily when it's cold, and freezes excellently. (?)
Put the slices in a bread bag and just snap off what you need.

I'm positive it's cheaper than buying bread, and sure tastes better! You don't need to buy the ingredients all the time, so the yeast, flour etc lasts a long time. I buy the yeast in the bulk store and keep it in the freezer and it lasts pretty much indefinitely.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Home made bread is cheaper....lots cheaper if you buy flour by teh 25 pound bag and yeast in bulk.
Even buying flour by the 5 pound bag (but buying yeast in bulk....at $2.89 for 2 pounds) I can make a decent French style baguette for about $.25 each.

But if you are the type of person for whom good home made taste is not important and who doesn't enjoy cooking good food, why then probably that $1.99 loaf is fine.
Linda c


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

One other item to consider: whole wheat flour, having more good nutrients than white flour, goes rancid/stale far more quickly than white flour. It might be false economy to buy a huge sack of whole wheat flour.

The ideal, of course, is to have a grain mill and grind your own flour. Lots of threads on such an endeavor; just do a search. The idea is, grains such as whole wheat berries (when stored correctly) have a very long shelf life, and the flour you make is the freshest, tastiest flour you'll ever taste. Plus, you can try different types of grain--white wheat berries yield a flour that is delicious.

If you don't have the space/budget/time for a grain mill, at least try to buy your flour from a store with a big turnover. Some natural food stores have freshly ground whole wheat flour, and some grind it on site. Store your whole wheat flour in the fridge in an airtight container.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

A cost benefit analysis would be incomplete with consideration of all the variable involved. For me, making bread is an adventure and a process I enjoy. Having my family come home and walk into the kitchen while the aroma of freshly baking bread is wafting throuogh the air builds a sensory memory that will always remind them of you and how much you love them; to me that's priceless... :)


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

I echo the advice that you do it if it makes you happy. For me, sourdough would be cheaper and whole wheat might or might not be. If I were making 100% whole wheat, I'd have to buy gluten, which is expensive. I also second (or is it third?) the advice that you give the artisan bread in 5 method a shot if you decide to try it. You use regular yeast rather than a starter, but you still get sourdough-- you just have to leave the dough in the fridge for four days or so before using it. Both the regular and the whole grain recipes are free online.

http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1087

http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=1616

There's another one somewhere that uses a smaller proportion of whole grain flour and doesn't use gluten. If you dig around, you'll probably find it.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Just wanted to point out on the topic of vital gluten. When I bought a small package at our health food store the price was shocking. I was stunned. So I did some looking around and found a 3.5 pound can on Amazon for $13.99 (plus shipping). Considering that most of the recipes I use call for 1/4 C. this should last me for a while. I find that makes it pretty affordable.

Hope this helps.

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Vital Wheat Gluten


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Regarding the staling and slicing issues, that is why I make sandwich buns. They can be frozen and thawed in the microwave. Perfect for lunches, breakfast sandwiches, split and toasted, etc. My husband is on a low sodium diet, so like others, I make all our breadstuffs. I have found making the sandwich buns works well for us.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Thanks, Kate. I order from Honeyville sometimes, so that might be a convenient way to buy it.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

I make 100% whole wheat flour and I don't add any vital wheat gluten. I use King Arthur whole wheat flour and it seems to work just fine, although if I want a light and fluffy loaf I have to add gluten.

I also make all my bread and Elery's favorite, honey wheat, costs me about $1 a loaf because it has honey and eggs in it. I buy yeast in bulk at Sam's club and keep a package in the refrigerator in a quart canning jar, the second package in the freezer. I've never had one go "bad". I buy whole wheat flour in 5 pound bags because I don't have anywhere to store it in the freezer.

There is only Elery and I here eating bread, although Ashley will occasionally. She mostly likes the squishy white stuff. I also make cinnamon rolls, dinner rolls, sandwich buns. Bread freezes nicely and anything that gets stale becomes toast, garlic toast, french toast, bread pudding, bread crumbs, strata, grilled or panini sandwiches or croutons.

I make all my bread in the bread machine because my carpal tunnel makes it hurt to knead. I never bake in the machine though, I don't like the crust. I use the "dough" cycle and then shape it, let it rise and bake it in the oven.

I've used every recipe that sounded good, not just bread machine recipes. They've all turned out just fine, although I do check the dough part way through the knead cycle for hydration. Sometimes I need more water, sometimes more flour, I always adjust because that depends on all types of factors.

No, there is no special bread machine flour, although there is high gluten bread flour. Plain old King Arthur all purpose works just as well for me, and is nearly as high in protein as the bread flours normally available here anyway. You can buy "bread machine" yeast at a ghastly price, but it's just yeast, with a fancy bottle and label and equally fancy price. the Red Star company says that bread machine yeast is an instant or fast acting yeast, and that all yeast types are suitable for bread baking, by hand or machine.

So, is it worth the time? It's up to you. You'll save at least half the price per loaf, I think, even if you factor in time. With the bread machine I can come home from work, put the liquid ingredients in the machine, add the dry, push the button. That takes me about 5 minutes. I walk away and come back one time to life the lid and check hydration. When the machine is done it beeps, I take the dough out, shape it, let it rise on the counter while I do something else. There's another 5 minutes, including cleaning the pan. I check in half an hour to see how the dough is rising and to turn on the oven, and do whatever while the bread is baking.

Now, some people are not good at doing something, checking the bread, doing something else, checking the bread, they can do only one task at a time. I can do several, so it's not an issue for me, but it could be for other people.

Right now I have part of a loaf of bacon and feta cheese bread on the counter that elery made and the last of an Italian baguette with herbs that I made last week. We had the herb bread last night with finnan haddie, and when it got dunked into the soup, it softened right up. (grin)

Annie


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

This certainly proves "bread" isn't just one thing....

I've learned to incorporate some ingredients in my bread to help it keep fresher longer, and those ingredients are coconut oil, agave nectar (a honey-like sweetener with hygroscopic properties), and chia seed gel. We use one loaf of 100% whole wheat or multi-grain bread every 7-10 days and it maintains the same moisture level as other breads on day two - but for the entire week. Soft enough at the end of the week to make a peanut butter sandwich for hubby to take to work for lunch.

The chia seeds, which are a little larger than poppy seeds, are mixed with water and it becomes a gelatinous gel which helps maintain the moisture in the crumb, and the coconut oil and agave nectar also aid in maintaining moisture in all baked goods they are used in, as well as slowing mold formation.

Pre-1960's, commercially-prepared foods were commonly prepared with coconut oil because it worked as a natural preservative and extended the shelf-life. Coconut oil was used in making popcorn days ahead of time at stadiums and put in containers, and was used as needed. The coconut oil helped it maintain it's freshness. Without these ingredients in the bread I make, the moisture in the crumb quickly migrates from the crumb through the crust.

Staling is an interesting science to study. There are many factors that determine staling including ingredients in the bread, how it's wrapped, when it's wrapped. It does one thing if you wrap it cold, and another thing if wrapped slightly warm.... And as already mentioned, you can reactivate the starch. Lightly spritz a slice with water and a fine-mist (like a plant mister) and then a few moments in the toaster to barely warm the slice/s.

I purchase vital wheat gluten in #10 cans from Honeyville Grain (6-cans at a time - it's an important food storage item for us), but I use it for making "wheat meat" (aka gluten or seitan) as a high-protein meat extender and a high-protein "cereal". About the only time I add it to bread is when I use a very high ratio of low-gluten flour. I mill wheat that is 13.1% protein so there is more than enough gluten to raise a high-rising loaf of bread. It's the same wheat that meets the standards for white whole wheat flour for King Arthur Flour. The stone mill I purchase it from mills KA White Whole Wheat Flour for this region. I also purchase Wheat Montana Prairie Gold Wheat at Wal-Mart and it's an excellent wheat for yeast bread.

By adding a small amount of ascorbic acid (1/8 t. per loaf - which aids in gluten-development and prevents the damage from Glutathione that is found in wheat germ), and using an overnight sponge, I produce loaves made with 100% freshly-milled flour that are as high-rising and as soft as any white enriched bread I've ever made. By using white wheat, instead of the more acidic red wheat varieties, and the overnight sponge, the color of the loaves is also much lighter.

I cut slices as needed because it takes us at least a week to 10-days to use a loaf. This way the crumb remains in tact, and without exposure to oxygen from pre-slicing the entire loaf, it remains soft.

Different strokes - different folks ;-). It's still more nutritious as well as less expensive - and with 28 grains/seeds/beans in storage with which to mill flour from, I can make more kinds of bread than I could EVER find at the grocery store.

-Grainlady


 o
stale?

Also, if you're buying bread on the "day old" rack, it's already stale from the store.

I don't add any ascorbic acid and seldom have the organization to start a sponge the night before, but a bit of orange juice in the honey wheat bread helps too, and adds a very nice flavor. I forget who it was here that had the recipe with the orange juice, but it was a very good idea.

As grainlady says, you can make many, many kinds of bread, in all types of shapes and sizes and with added ingredients as you prefer. I've used Nutella in place of cinnamon and sugar in cinnamon rolls, added chocolate and Toblerone, I've used bacon and creamed corn and various herbs, cracked sugar cubes, peanut butter, sunflower seeds, nuts and dried fruits of all descriptions, whatever your personal preferences are. I've done braided loaves with onion filling and herbed foccacia and bagels.

Lots of choices when you choose to make your own bread and that's one of the reasons I make it. I also like it better, I like to control the ingredients and I just like the process. cost savings is way down on the list of reasons.

Annie


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Annie,
I had to laugh that you use "plain old King Arthur's all purpose Flour". In my store, KA flour is much more expensive than regular flour. Same with bread. I consider it a mini splurge that I always buy KA. I know what you meant, though, that you sub KA ap flour for the bread flour. Just struck a funny note with me. :)

jo


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Ascorbic acid. . . interesting.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Jo, I'm glad you knew what I meant, LOL.

Actually here bread flour is really expensive. Gold Medal all purpose costs $3.19 for 5 lbs, and Pillsbury is about the same. King Arthur is a bit more, $3.59. The Gold Medal/Pillsbury bread flour, though, is well over $4.

So, the King Arthur is more expensive than the other brands, but less expensive than any bread flour.

I buy King Arthur and it is a splurge, because I made bread for years with just whatever all purpose flour I had on hand, but the better quality King Arthur flour makes better bread, IMO.

Plus I like the company, I like the customer service, I like their business philosophy and I like their product. And no, I'm not affiliated in any way and they aren't giving me a discount on flour. (grin)

Annie


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Yummy home-baked bread is inexpensive, but the new pants, gym membership, and liposuction that it leads to is not.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Bread doesn't have to be fattening. Of course, if you can't control your portions, then it can and will be. Controlling your ingredients has been mentioned in here, and that would include the fat content of bread. Instead of butter in my breads, I've been using unsweetened applesauce, with lots of success. If a recipe calls for 2 tbsp butter, I use the same amount of applesauce. That lowers the fat content right there. Instead of sugar, one can substitute fructose or Splenda. I have a loaf in the freezer made with applesauce and Splenda....yum, and better stats. Of course, then you also have to watch what you put ON the bread.

Donna


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

katefisher,

The flour and grains at the Winco I shop at are from Bob�s Red Mills. I think they are equally as good as King Author. I found this out one day when shopping and they were filling the bins I was pleasantly surprised especially at 59 cents a pound for whole wheat. I bring my zip lock bags now when I get a chance to shop there and just lay them flat in the freezer when I get home.

Annie,

King Arthur is over $6.lb here and I never see any movement at my store so it sits there a long time. Bob�s Red Mill is over $5.lb at the health food store so finding it for .59lb made my day.

Claudia

Here is a link that might be useful: Bob's Red Mill


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Johnliu - I was thinking the exact same thing! I love homemade bread and I love to bake but I also have no self control when it comes to warm, yummy baked goods. Home baking is a special treat in my house. If I home baked all our desserts, breakfast breads, sandwich bread, etc., I'd have to buy a whole new wardrobe.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

$5 and $6 per LB for flour!!! Wow. I guess you WOULD be thrilled at getting it for .59 cents Claudia.

I'm upset now that they've raised the price of our flour to $12.99 for a 10 kg bag. I used to buy it for under $6 as recently as a month ago, and now it's $10.99 on sale.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Wow, over $1 a pound for flour? I'll stop complaining about paying $3.59!

Annie


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

if you can't control your portions

That's my problem. I love bread.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Me too. I don't mess with enriched dough or sweetened dough much, but I could still eat a staggering number of calories. Mmmmm, empty carbs.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

I read $5 and $6 per pound. In that case, that would be 25 to 30 dollars for 5 lbs. Whew!!!!! Should that be per 5 lbs?

jude


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Wow, Jude, you're right, that did say per $6 per POUND. I'm paying $3.59 for 5 pounds, so that's a shade under 72 cents a pound.

Annie


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Yes jude it is for a 5lb bag but still expensive. I have ordered from King Author but with shipping to Ca. that�s expensive also now I only order from them if they have a free shipping offer.

Claudia


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Shipping costs are a killer sometimes, in fact they can be more than the cost of the item. BTW, I didn't know they (KA) ever had free shipping, unless they may be one that gives you free shipping if your order is over a designated amount...say $50 or $100 dollars. Many times I don't want to order that much.

OT, I've been needing to order filters for my compost bucket and I think the shipping is as much as the filters:-(

jude


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

After reading these horribly high prices for flour I went out this morning and purchased 50-pounds of wheat to add to my already sizable stash. Kansas wheat is not looking all that good, especially in the western part of the state where they have been in a drought. With rising fuel prices, we can only look forward to higher prices for wheat and flour - and everything they are used in.

FYI - Wheat has a nearly indefinite shelf-life while commercial bleached and unbleached flour will keep 6-12 months at room temperature (double that if frozen). I use wheat for making wheat sprouts, wheatgrass, cooked wheat berries, farina, flakes, "wheat meat", bulgar and cracked wheat - and oh, yes, flour.

I ran across a book recently - "No Wheat Grinder Wheat Recipes" by Cindi Van Bibber. A great little collection of recipes you can use whole wheat berries in even if you don't have a grain mill. Cooked wheat berries are mixed in the blender to use in recipes like: No Flour Muffins, Cornbread, Brownies, Meatloaf, Biscuits, Meatballs, and hubby's favorite - Peanut Butter Cookies. A great little book for anyone wanting to use whole wheat but who doesn't have a grain mill. I've included the link below for anyone interested.

I like to "cook" a large batch of wheat in my Thermal Cooker and then bag it in 2-cup amounts and keep it in the freezer. Lots of uses for cooked wheat, as well as all the recipes in the little cookbook.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Cindi's Lifestyle Treasures


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Most commodities are and will be going up. Improving living standards in emerging countries. Investment money flowing into commodities. Volatile weather globally, pertinent to agricultural products. (2) may be temporary, money sloshes around, some commodities like cotton may be overdone already, but as farmers switch acreage to cotton, something else gets squeezed. (1) is durable. (3) my opinion is that global warming is very real and one of its main effects is changing weather patterns. Pretty much all consumer products companies are going to raise prices in coming months. Or decrease quantities.


 o
RE: Cost Benefit Analysis Store Bought Bread vs Homemade

Grainlady I am in awe of you, truly in awe.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Cooking Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here