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Will you eat it?

Posted by cookie8 (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 8, 12 at 8:28

Not even sure if it is approved just yet but will you eat GM salmon? It is a hybrid chinook salmon with pout fish to make it grow in half the time (farmed, of course).


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Will you eat it?

I hadn't heard of it so I just looked it up.
It isn't correct to call it a hybrid. It's Atlantic salmon modified with a gene from the Chinook salmon that will make it grow faster, and a gene from poutfish that gives it more cold endurance.
I probably won't eat it just because I have a source of salmon that I am happy with. But I would not be afraid to eat it.
Approval status isn't clear to me. One site says the House passed a bill in June 2011 forbidding FDA approval, but an article in the fall talks about the FDA considering it.
One big concern is labeling requirements -- that people wouldn't know they are getting it.


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RE: Will you eat it?

Probably NOT!

Nancy


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RE: Will you eat it?

I rarely eat fresh salmon anymore because wild caught is prohibitively expensive here (I'm in Massachusetts).

Had to laugh at a bumper sticker I saw on a car in the Stop & Shop parking lot a few weeks ago - an image of a fish with the words "This salmon dyed for you".

seagrass


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RE: Will you eat it?

Sure......just keep from splicing things like a gene that makes it withstand Round-op spraying....like has been done with more than half of the soybeans grown.
I will eat it....but am concerned with what happens when some of the GM salmon escape and contaminate the wild salmon gene pool.


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RE: Will you eat it?

No. That's what they did with chicken, now they can get a fully grown roaster in 8 or 10 weeks, but the poor things are frankenbirds, they can't breed because of the overblown breasts, they can't walk without breaking their own legs from their weight, they are prone to heart attacks.

As far as I can see, it's much the same, as is feedlot beef, fed an unhealthy diet of corn and antibiotics. Not eating that either.

We want cheap food and we are getting what we pay for.

Annie


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RE: Will you eat it?

I thought the poor chickens were a product of ordinary breeding taken to a grotesque extreme. That is, breeders selected for certain traits until they got a different shaped animal.


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RE: Will you eat it?

You're right.....the chickens are a product of selective breeding, just as hogs are being bread for leanness and cows for butterfat production or volume of milk.


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RE: Will you eat it?

If it is passed, I do hope that they label it properly for consumers who don't care to consume it. I wish there were better regulations on food labelling.


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RE: Will you eat it?

I will not buy salmon unless it is clearly labeled "wild caught". I also will not buy it if it has been previously frozen, although I might loosen that rule a bit. I have successfully cooked previously frozen tuna after marinating it is a very spicy mixture. That might work for salmon also, but I prefer the fresh flavor.

Maybe this is why my food bill was $700 for the two of us last month. I'm now looking for ways to reduce food costs, and I can really notice that prices have gone up significantly recently. I draw the line at farmed fish, however - I will not touch it. I am also a bit concerned with what will happen when the hybrid farmed fish get loose and breed with wild fish. And it is not "if" but "when".

Lars


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RE: Will you eat it?

Anyone know about the mongoose that was brpought to eradicate rats on some of the Caribbean islands? Now they are a pest and eating eggs....or the purple finches that escaped cages.....and are now competing with native species, or the snail in the great lakes that escaped bilges and is now fouling water intakes etc, ...
Don't get me started....I haven't seen a honey bee here in years. Partly because of disease and partly because of...? Crops modified to kill a bug at first munch? The jury's out....but we still have very few honey bees....thankfully black bees are taking over some of the pollination tasks.


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RE: Will you eat it?

Lars, I keep up with Monterey Bay's Seafood watch program. My understanding is some farmed operations are starting to clean up their act. Link below.

Another factor in making your decision is how active any of these companies are in influencing the legislations that make it get an approval from government agencies. Think of what clout Walmart has, now that it has decided to enter the 'organic' market, in changing the definition itself of what is 'organic' to suit the corporation and not the farmer/consumer.

(And that's one of the reasons I am leery of Monsanto etc. - they have government in their pockets. You know the drill.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Seafood Watch salmon


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RE: Will you eat it?

In a word, ICK. But I have actually studied this issue quite a bit. There are huge issues with fish farming even taking out the GMO ones. Yes, it can be done responsibly, but is it? Will it? Big questions. As per the rising cost of food--not surprising. Food today is grown in a petroleum intensive manner--and petroleum prices are rising. And there you have in large part why I am an environmentalist. Pure self interest, I like to eat good quality food, particularly water creatures, which is why I specialized in aquatic ecology.


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RE: Will you eat it?

I would not be afraid to eat it. I see no way it could harm me. As some of you know from previous discussions, I consider farmed Atlantic salmon a superior product because the way it is harvested and handled means it is fresh as possible. Also, due to the way it is raised, it is exposed less to parasites than wild caught salmon is.

However, this new fish concerns me. It's escapees may or may not be capable of hyrbridizing with wild salmon. I don't know. But if they can spawn with each other, it could very likely cause a serious ecological imbalance.

BTW, I do not eat fish or shrimp raised in warm water ponds,.Those have a real yuk factor to me, even though they may be approved by Monterey Bay.

Jim


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RE: Will you eat it?

Jessy, I noticed that all Atlantic farmed salmon is still on their "avoid" list, and the farmed salmon that I have seen in Ralphs so far has been Atlantic. I will check to see if they ever get the Pacific version. I generally find better fish selections at Gelsons, but that is not quite as close to me - it used to be the nearest market. I still go there, however, as I continue to do a lot of my shopping in Marina Del Rey, even if I have to drive five miles. I don't go to the Santa Monica Seafood Company so much after they moved to a location with practially no parking. Their previous location was great - they should never have moved. I'll go there if I'm going to Bay Cities Italian Deli in Santa Monica, but they also have essentially no parking.

Lars


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RE: Will you eat it?

How about Wild Salmon processed in China?


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RE: Will you eat it?

Lars: 'Atlantic' farmed is pretty much every where, probably restaurants as well. I haven't researched it much yet, but I think I saw that Norwegian and Chilean salmon farmers are doing a better job - but maybe not good enough yet for Seafood Watch. It sounds like tank farmed salmon isn't big enough to hit the major chain grocery stores.

BTW read frozen labels as well.....Ralphs once carried 'Alaskan frozen salmon, processed in China'....I don't think I'd buy that!

Seafood Watch says: "...some salmon farmers are making changes to improve their practices. So far, one change has proven successful�raising U.S. freshwater coho using inland tank-based, closed systems. Closed systems reduce environmental risks by containing pollution, disease, parasites and reducing fish escapes and result in a "Best Choice" ranking.

Look for wild-caught salmon or clearly labeled U.S. farmed freshwater coho salmon. For now, "Avoid" all other farmed salmon."


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RE: Will you eat it?

No, to salmon canned in China, and to farmed salmon of any kind. I absolutely don't eat it, and given my location, I don't have to. I can see the fog on the Pacific ocean from my kitchen window, we Washingtonians take our fish 'straight' :)


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RE: Will you eat it?

This is the excellent farmed Scottish salmon that I buy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Loch Duart salmon


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RE: Will you eat it?

Seven billion and growing. Traditional food sources can't feed all those mouths. Work on the demand and the supply will sort itself out.


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RE: Will you eat it?

No, CC, I didn't mean the same procedure, I meant the same mindset. Take a healthy natural animal and do something to it to make it grow bigger or faster in a way that is just inherently unnatural and not particularly good for the amimal or the environment or the consumer or anything/anyone other than the bottomline of the producer.

FOAS, you are right, we must reduce the demand and/or turn to different foodstuffs. It seems almost heresy from a fourth or fifth generation beef farmer, but we just eat way too much meat. Not only every day but in huge amounts. 4 ounces is a serving but that is seldom what gets eaten, I see 32 ounce steaks and half pound burgers, breakfast specials that include 6 strips of bacon and 6 sausage links, it's just gotten crazy.

I have no intention of giving up beef, but I eat it maybe twice a week, usually less and that includes small amounts in soups, etc. Elery and I can split a t-bone steak from one of my steers and still have plenty left over for Cooper.

Annie


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RE: Will you eat it?

Posted by foodonastump "--- Work on the demand and the supply will sort itself out. "

That's what war is for.

dcarch


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RE: Will you eat it?

dcarch - The "War on Terror" is over a decade old and I don't see any improvement in the food supply. Maybe if we went back to carpet-bombing entire countries it would help. Japan is eating a lot of our tuna, don't you think? There'd be more pigs without Germany. Lambs without Greece. We don't even need passports - if we act quickly a few bombs on Maine could free up some lobster in time for Valentine's Day!


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RE: Will you eat it?

FOAS I dare you to start 'Monsanto or world hunger?' on the Hot Topics forum. FWIW I'm not disagreeing with you, either.

Here, try this link (darfc)

Here is a link that might be useful: Hot Topics


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RE: Will you eat it ?

That's what happened in WW II. We eliminate 60 million (2.5% of world population) hungry people in the shortest amount of time.

We should do much better in WW III now we have bigger guns.

dcarch


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RE: Will you eat it?

To answer your question, of course not.

Sally


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RE: Will you eat it?

What ever happened to Zero Population Growth? It was the rage in the seventies. Just like Global Climate Change is today.

Jim


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RE: Will you eat it?

Nope. I have too many other choices for protein.
I don't want modified anything if I can help it.

Deanna


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RE: Will you eat it?

"I don't want modified anything if I can help it."

Depending on how strict your definition is of "modified", it could include any farm product which has undergone hybridization or selective breeding, which is just about everything most of us eat. I know someone who eats a paleo diet which includes only primitive foods -- no dairy, grains or flour made from grain, for example.

Jim


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RE: Will you eat it?

I've seen a lotta wars in my time on earth, and Monsanto has been around for a long time. If either of those did the trick I think it would have worked by now. Hunger is a complex issue, no simple solutions. Access to food, social unrest and poverty are the big drivers of starvation. As far as I can tell, war is a cause, not a solution to hunger. And I know of few war torn countries where agriculture is thriving, Monsanto or not. World fisheries are collapsing, due to a whole host of reasons--climate change, pollution, overharvesting. So quite naturally fish farming is stepping in to replace the resource. Folks in the future may not know what they're missing food-wise, with extinct breeds and extinct wild sources. I've lived long enough to remember the old ways. Some of that food was darn good!
Sorry, but I can't buy the pessimists "we have no other options" arguement. There are many viable solutions to most human problems--always have been. But they aren't easy ones. And most involve people working together and getting along. Does Monsanto have a gene splice for that in the works? :)


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RE: Will you eat it?

It's basic economics. People demand vast quantities of proteins but complain if it costs too much. The response has been a broader, less quality supply, or test-tube mutations that are more profitable or can be sprayed with more pesticides without suffering.

It sickens me that there is so much apathy about where food comes from, and how it is obtained. Sure, people claim to be against animal cruelty but it doesn't stop them from supporting the industries. And people complain at the GMO foods yet still won't spring for the $5 head of organic lettuce.

I get that there are other circumstances that come into play but until people are willing to hit these industries where it hurts - their profit margins - I fear this is just the beginning. They are smart enough to know that while people may be outraged initially, it will die down because people just aren't willing to care enough to change things or to open up their purses enough to buy the alternatives.

You are what you eat. Eating hormonally treated meat, GMO wheat, produce drenched in pesticides and chemicals, dairy, sugar, snack foods that are still edible 10 years after being made...and wonder why you have cancer or other diseases, or just feel like crap. There's a correlation there.


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RE: Will you eat it?

chi83,
I don't think it's that people won't spring for the higher priced organic lettuce, it's also that many of them/us (especially in this economy) simply can't afford to do so.

Hopefully, as many people who have the space to grow a garden can go that route. There would be organic lettuce during 2 seasons for the most of us.


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RE: Will you eat it?

I am sure that there are many people who can't afford organic produce - part of the other circumstances that I was talking about. Certainly if the choice is between eating regular produce and not eating, then you have to buy what you can afford.

I was referring more to the many, many people who think organic produce is a rip-off and would rather spend the money elsewhere so they continue to buy the regular stuff. That's a personal choice and I understand that decision as I used to feel the same way, but we won't see any difference in the food supply issues until people are willing to stop supporting these mega industries.

I wish everyone had a source for local, organic and cheap produce. So much better from every aspect.


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RE: Will you eat it?

I'm seeing a lot of people moving in the direction of trying to grow more food themselves in my area. Maybe it's because I'm involved in the movement, but we have a burgeoning community garden movement here. I'm actually a little skeptical of the organic label on produce I get just any old place. I'd much rather buy from a producer I know. Maybe it's how I was raised--there was a produce market right outside of my hometown. You could see the produce growing in the fields behind the market. But we consumers are driving the market and the bandwagon, we shouldn't be surprised that all kinds of people are trying to jump on it in all kinds of ways. There will never be an escape from caveat emptor!

I don't want to sound like I am down on aquaculture. In fact, I think we are going to see some exciting innovations in that realm in the near future. In fact, if I had a kid interested in fish and science, I would encourage them to investigate aquaculture as a career. And I think aquaculture is going to take big strides in sustainability as consumers demand more accountability in their fish production.

The only reason I'm skeptical of SOME aquaculture is one of my students did a research paper on it a couple of years ago, salmon in particular. Native salmon is having SUCH a rough time! (Along with a lot of other native fishes, many of which I LOVE to eat!) Aquaculture, if done responsibly, could take some of the pressure off native stocks.

BTW, Eating Well Magazine has had a log of excellent articles on aquaculture issues. You can go to their Web site and search under "aquaculture" or "farmed fish" and find a lot of information. Also, things change as consumers and environmental groups are pressuring for more accountability, so it's an interesting issue to watch. Well, at least for science-weenie, fish lover me!

I linked to the middle of one LONG article that goes into a lot of the issue around salmon. There are other articles on there about shrimp, tilapia, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wild Salmon debate on Eating Well


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More on the fish

Sorry folks, I can't help myself, once I get into something, I like to know more and more. I linked below to another article on GMO's that really focuses in on the fish. Interesting that the impetus for genetically "improving" the fish is to try and move the aquaculture operations out of native waters, (where they're causing all the problems) and onto land, where the possibility of contamination from fish farms into wild habitats could THEORETICALLY be less. The devil is in the details. Found an interesting article in Scientific Amercian on one company that is attempting to develop sustainable land-based salmon farming.

Like I said, really fascinating and possibly an area for lots of innovation. BF And I are huge salmon lovers, but we really struggle with these issues. Mostly I just buy canned Alaskan salmon. But every once and a while I want to splurge on some fresh salmon. Sadly, our close native Atlantic salmon population has pretty much collapsed, and before that was fairly contaminated. (See, that's what I mean about me being a water quality activist purely out of gastronomic motivations!) Fresh Pacific salmon is very pricey here on the East coast.

Here is a link that might be useful: Eating Well article--GMO's the food of the future?


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RE: Will you eat it?

Ugh, I posted about eating sardines. Maybe reading more information on sustainable fish and contamination will make me suck it up and just eat them already (and make myself like them).
Chi, I am slowly integrating our lives in a much more organic state. My big purchase I want to make is part of a pastured, grass fed cow. I just need to clear out our freezer. I will also check out the Eating Well website. Truthfully, I am obsessed with holistic nutrition, I find it absolutely fascinating.


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RE: Will you eat it?

Jim, I totally agree there are many definitions of "modified".
For me, I choose to buy grass-fed beef grown just over the hill from folks I go to church with. Same with pork.
I butcher my own chickens when they are past prime laying years. We have eggs in their prime.
I garden, shop local farm markets and barter with neighbors.
I buy local wheat and grind my flour.
Yep. It's more work. Yep, it's more expensive. It's a choice I currently make. I cannot promise it will always be an option for me. Too many face that choice now, eat whatever they can afford or not eat. You do the best you can do at the time, I believe.

That said, I still eat bananas and citrus and store-bought shrimp (not from China). I certainly understand that each situation, availability of fresh/local/organic foods varies.
I have searched out fresh stuff when traveling and it is very often difficult to come by readily. Especially for tourists that aren't familiar with local options.

I just wouldn't choose to buy fish that has been intentionally cross bred to be like neither of it's parents.

Deanna


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