Sorry, last decade of 19th Century - don't know where I got the other date from. Re. colour again, a reference to CR in a Gertrude Jekyll article indicated it had a 'purple taint' - seen as a fault at the time, even though she was generally enthusiastic about it. She said it was 'improved' if you looked at it with the light behind it. It was apparently the reddest climber yet seen at the time, and thus quickly became hugely popular and influential in breeding, so quite an interesting back-story if this does turn out to be your family rose, TWG. Trospero seemed very sure that ANY suggestion of purple ruled out Excelsa and that the colour of DP wasn't right either - I don't know anything about that, but one other point that might help - check out the stipules. On the first page of pix for Crimson Rambler on HelpMeFind, when you go to Photos, there's an old black & white photo of them (the feathery outgrowths on either side of the leaf stem where it meets the main stem). On closer inspection, I do believe I see identical stipules in your third pic!! There's also another photo of them further on in HMF's Photos with someone's hand displaying them. I don't know if DP or Ex or any other possible candidates have these, perhaps someone else knows? Thanks, Rosefolly for putting in that link; I am such a techno-dumdum.... Boncrow, one of the many other names for CR was Ten Sisters (in Chinese), I don't know why. TWG, did you manage to find that earlier thread? There were terrific photos on there of CR and Ex... Oh yes, and Super Excelsa I now see was a 1986 introduction, so I guess that would definitely rule it out as your wife's great-aunt's rose (am trying desperately to do the maths, but the brain is not being very cooperative at the moment...)? :-) :-) Comtesse

When I was very little, my mother was struggling with keeping two climbing Peace roses in good health in the desert of west Texas, in Odessa. They grew on a trellis surrounding the window of my older brother's bedroom. I used to climb up the iron trellis and sit on the shelf under the window to read comic books and swat at the bumble bees that would amble past. Those roses were the size of the dinner plates Mother served us with! Later we moved back to east Texas, near my grandparents home, and I saw other types of roses. My grandmother always had a couple of old "Sweetheart Roses" (Cecile Brunner), and she would point out other old roses, and other heritage plants as well when I or a cousin would show an interest. She was NOT an avid hobby gardener- she had 13 children, (my mother was her middle 7th child), and needless to say, her hands were very full with children, grandchildren, my grandfather, being active in her church, and the Eastern Stars, among other things. She always had a neat, tidy yard, and they grew an enormous vegetable garden to feed the family, kept chickens for eggs and meat, had a couple of cows for milk and butter, etc. Their life style was one of a simpler day, and with very little "cash money", she wasn't about to spend it on flowers for her yard! When she was an old lady, she would smile at the efforts people would go to in order to maintain a St. Augustine lawn, and a bunch of landscaper designed plantings. In her day, passalong plants were about all she and her cronies had, and she loved all of them for the ease of care: plant, water during droughts, and let them fend for themselves! Anyone who lives in the south can recognize what I call the "Granny Yard": a couple of OGRs, some honeysuckle that has to be beaten back every few years to keep it from taking over the world, a wisteria of the same ambitious nature, a magnolia, a pecan, a couple of oaks or ashes, a warty looking "toothache tree", maybe a willow if there is a pond nearby, a bunch of volunteer onions and garlics here and there, oh, and of course the easter lilies of yesteryear in a bed at the back corner of the house... 'Fess up. You have all visited this house! I know you have! In my twenties as a young mother I played at gardening, and suffered disappointment after disappointment when my hybrid teas and grandifloras would croak for lack of high culture. I just could not make myself get too excited about anything that was that high maintenance. One year my mother in law mentioned that one of my sister's in law wanted a "start" of her old "Sweetheart Rose", and asked if I would like one too. That sparked the memory, and soon I had my own little Cecile growing in my yard. I have moved away, and didn't know about cuttings back then, so I didn't preserve that plant through the years. But luckily it is one that is widely available. I filed away for future reference the note that those old garden roses really are tough as an old boot. We bought this home in 1999, and when I was ready to finally start a real garden, I was introduced to the Antique Rose Emporium here in Texas. From there I learned about rose rustling, about all the classes of old roses and the modern shrubs that seem superior to hybrid teas. That was at least 300 roses ago. And counting. ~Allison

I like this kind of thread, and I've often thought about asking similar questions in this forum. My entire gardening life exists as a monument to family sentiment. My father's parents kept a large garden, right at the edge of the ocean, where they grew all kinds of things that conventional "wisdom" defines as being "unsuitable" for coastal conditions. If that sounds romantic, it wasn't. It was purely practical. They had both grown up during the depression, both the children of Northern European immigrants- they were frugal, to say the least. I don't keep a vegetable garden, but I can't eat a pea or a raspberry without thinking of my grandparents, and how much time they put into that garden all year long. They never looked at it as being a burden, or nuisance, or chore, the way so many people today seem to do (I just dont have the TIME-it's too much WORK). When I'm with my cousins, we ALL share very fond memories of time spent in that garden. But their flower garden is what I've tried to reproduce in my own life. They grew a great deal of flowers, the kinds of things you'd expect people of that generation to have had in their garden, and they ALL have sentimental value to me. I can never smell honeysuckle without thinking of the back porch, where we'd change out of our filthy clothes before being allowed to sit at the table for dinner. Or the sweet spicy smell of pinks, which grew along the river-rock steps to the front door. The sweet peas and Nasturtiums, which Papa grew as a curtain of curly tendrils climbing up the sides of the front porch. The yellow dahlias which I chose for Grammy at the garden booth of the County Fair when I was 5- which she ALWAYS referred to as "Zachy Dahlias". She kept those dahlias, or identical replacements, in that garden for the rest of her life. And of course they had a rose garden, where they grew 'Peace' and 'Tropicana' and 'Queen Elizabeth' (grown against an east-facing wall, to keep them out of the wind). I have all of these plants in my garden, (even 'Tropicana' whose color I LOATHE, but my mother gave it to me, because she remembered), none of them coming to me directly from their garden though. It's still there, even though they both died long ago. The family won't sell the land, but they also won't maintain it, so it's in a sorry state, and I'm the only one left in the area. I tried for years to keep it clean, but I decided instead to re-create that garden on my own land. And that's what I've spent the last 6 years trying to do. Every one of the plants I grow feels like an heirloom. I'm probably TOO sentimental, but like my Grandparents, I'm also practical. I'd rather grow roses in the present than sit around and cry for things that are gone.

Peonies are not the only flower that attracts ants and ants are possibly the least offensive critter hiding in the blossom. I was in the middle of judging an arrangement of cut flowers when a large and upset Golden Orb spider came out to defend its territory. Since my nose was only 3 inches away that was where it tried to defend. Needless to say that arrangement, though lovely did not receive a ribbon. There is a proven cure for this problem and at the same time, help cut flowers last longer and prevent drooping. Before placing in arrangements the blossom must be hardened. Submerge the entire cut stem and blossom in tepid water. Allow several hours so the blossom and leaves absorb as much water as possible. Periodically shake the cut stem to eliminate air pockets. Debris and both alive and dead insects will come to the surface where they can easily be removed. Roses, Peony and many other plants seal off cuts to the stem to prevent loss of nutrients and moisture so you should trim the end of each stem as soon as it is submerged. When you take them out of the water, shake them gently and immediately put them in a container of fresh water where you can trim and otherwise prep them for arranging. Store the prepared stems in a cool area until used. I can pretty much guarantee you won't have an ant problem or a drooping problem. Sandy