I had no idea. I've always loved cursive handwriting, and I used to do calligraphy, starting at an early age. I used to get A+ on my handwriting. I also know German cursive and Russian (Cyrillic). I used to write all my grocery lists in Cyrillic when I was in my early 20s, and I would sometimes transliterative everything into Cyrillic when writing my diary, writing it half in German, so that no one would be able to read it. All of my diaries are written in cursive, and I had a difficult time doing any kind of creative writing with a keyboard at first, but eventually I trained myself to do it. I've never written poetry using a keyboard, however. I've always felt that when I wrote in cursive that I was expressing myself more fully, and when I felt creative bursts, I felt that the writing I was doing was almost automatic - it would just flow out of me as if I didn't have to think about it. I can very much see this when I look back at my old diaries - I was definitely tapping a different part of my brain. Also, I write very differently from the way I speak, and I think I write differently when I use cursive instead of a keyboard.

I don't think cursive handwriting is a dying skill because I feel that there will always be people like me who see its value and keep it alive. Photography has not replaced portrait painting, although perhaps today it is sometimes used when painting portraits. I recently got a portrait that a friend of mine in San Francisco painted of me in 1982, and I had to pose many times for that portrait. Most of the portraits of me were done more quickly, but none of them were done from photographs.

For my work today, I do a lot of drafting in AutoCAD, but I still do a certain amount of design work with a pencil, and certain designs require me to draw on paper instead of on a computer. I do a lot of my work making 3D full scale versions of my furniture designs in cardboard and/or other media. My point is that I do not believe that the mechanized version of any kind of expression will eliminate the more manual versions.

Lars

My 18 yr old DD is a freshman at the University of Tennessee- Knoxville. I'm sitting here laughing because she has told me exactly the same thing - NO ONE her age writes in cursive anymore. In fact, she said that while taking the SAT's they were required to sign their tests in cursive. There were kids who actually asked how to form certain letters - they couldn't remember because it had been so long since they had last used it.

Dale

I don't see how anyone could possibly print as fast as I can write.

Penmanship is definitely a dying skill and I really am sorry. I too have been interested in taking calligraphy classes, just haven't had the time.

I finally learned to compose on the computer, however it was difficult for a while.

I find cursive so rare that it always stands out when I see it. (I can tell you without looking that the sprinkler guy wrote out his estimate in cursive the other day, LOL!) And of those who still use it, attractive penmanship is a rare find. The irony is that to me there's little correlation between attractive penmanship and legible penmanship.

My wife writes in cursive. On the shopping list. Invariably I have to ask her what she wrote. It's not sloppy, but I can't read her writing. I find printing much more reader friendly. And fine with me if you print in all caps - I won't accuse you of yelling at me!

I suppose everyone will still learn it so they can sign their name. Other than that I say good riddance. Cursive is an art, leave it to the artists, no need to force it on everyone.

Wow, I don't think it will ever vanish because it's so much faster than printing. Whenever I take notes, I try to practice my penmanship so that it will be legible and attractive naturally.

Printing is a PITA to me. So time consuming! LOL

I write lots of things in cursive....grocery lists, greeting/thank you cards, notes to my co-worker to update her, phone messages, etc. I am a list maker, too. So I normally have lots of lists of various degrees of importance lying around...all in cursive.

I do miss hand-written letters. Just ain't the same in an e-mail.

Of the people I deal with on a daily basis (doctors) that do write in cursive....I believe they all need to take a penmanship course! Anyone can write in cursive....but if people can't READ it, what's the point?

LOL

Linda

I have been sitting here writing ''the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog'' and am depressed at how sloppy my normal cursive is. It is not unattractive writing, in my biased opinion, and I can read it fine, but over the years my cursive appears to have devolved into a personal form of shorthand. If I concentrate, I can write cursive that is legible to everyone, but it isn't my ''normal'' cursive. I think I need to work on my penmanship. Maybe cursive is dying, but so are we all, and we might as well look good and write prettily along the way.

Voice recognition software is very advanced and very inexpensive. It is fast and accurate. It has been around for a long time. When it first came out I thought that would be the end of keyboards. Today I don’t know one person who is using it.

There are software packages some place which will allow you to import your own fonts in .jpg format into your word processing software. I thought it would be interesting to do a nice set of your own handwriting and import that into your system. You can just talk into your microphone, and you printer will print out your documents, letters in your own cursive handwriting.

All handwriting analysis experts will be going out of business soon? :-)

dcarch

It used to be that cursive writing was started in late second or the beginnning of third grade. In the early 90's, our school decided to teach the D'Nealian form of handwriting, instead of the traditional ball and stick manuscript. D'Nealian had a little slant to the lines and a curve on the end of the letters that when making the transition to cursive it would be the connecting stroke from one letter to the next. That was to help the 2nd and 3rd grade teachers so that they would not have to start from scratch in teaching cursive because more emphasis was being placed on writing composition than just penmanship. In Florida, 4th graders, 7th, and 10th take as part of the the FCAT, a writing to a prompt part. Even in kindergarten we had to start teaching them about main idea, supporting details, etc. Over the years, the penmanship lessons gave way to the writing lessons, hence the kids aren't being taught to either print or write in cursive NEATLY. If you go into the classrooms, most teachers print on their "white boards". You don't even see the typical ABC charts in cursive anymore that all the teachers used to have above their "chalk boards". The only real reason I can see having the need to write in cursive is signing your name. As someone else posted, it is necessary on some documents. I don't necessarily agree that it shouldn't be taught but I do understand why it isn't happening.

One point about doctors' handwriting - if you are trying to read your prescriptions, the reason you cannot read them is that they are written in code for the pharmacy - you are not meant to be able to read it unless you are a pharmacist. My doctor has beautiful handwriting, and it is very easy to see that he is writing code instead of English.

Also, why would anyone say "good riddance" to something that the same person admits is an art? In China (and possibly Japan), children are taught calligraphy, which is definitely an art, and pretty much all children seem capable mastering it to some degree. I think we need more art to be taught - not less! To criticize the teaching of handwriting because it is an art is to diminish the value of art and artistic expression. Not everyone who takes an art class will become an artist, but their appreciation of art will be enhanced.

Alas, even in China schools no longer teach traditional brush calligraphy. They learn to write kanji, but with pens not brushes. So I'm told.

I have been studying (practicing) brush calligraphy for a couple years now, and have developed an appreciation for how many of the strokes and hooks of Chinese character flow naturally from the elasticity and rebound of a brush. When writing the same characters with a pen, many of those elements are forced, not natural.

I've been getting my friends to write ''the quick brown fox jumped over the very lazy dog'' and the results are interesting. Even among adults, average 40 y/o, at least 2/3 print.

My handwriting is half cursive and half printing. I'm not sure how that happened. We were certainly taught cursive in grade school. I remember a border that went across the front of the classroom that had examples of all the "script" letters on it. We had practice paper that had a top line, a bottom line and one in the middle. Your letter would sit on the bottom line, swoop up to meet the top line. Only capital letters went up to the top. Lower case letters met the middle line. The result was very evenly sized and legible writing. We wrote the same letter over and over again.

My mom, age 93, has gorgeous handwriting and her hand does not shake at all, so it's pretty to see. My sons both have awful handwriting. Tomorrow at the Halloween Block Party I'll ask if the kids are still taught cursive. I hope so. Soon the skills of cursive writing, reading the face of a clock and tying your shoes with shoe laces will all be lost.

My young nephew had a hard time using a regular wall phone. He kept looking for the "talk" button to push.

Funny that keyboarding (aka typing) made such a resurgence. What's old is new again.

The issue with voice recognition software is that composing while dictating is a skill that has to be learned. When I started as a lawyer, I was used to handwriting (in cursive) my essays. I had to learn how to compose sentences and paragraphs in my head and then dictate the brief into a tape recorder. My secretary would type from the tape. It took several months of dictating before I was comfortable with it. Five years later the lawyers all got green-screen computer terminals and Wordperfect, and most of the younger ones switched to typing their briefs. Today, drop a voice recognition app on the average person's computer and they'll still have to learn how to compose in their head. I know one guy who uses the software, a lawyer who learned to dictate as I did. Radiologists use it too, I think, there's not much composition involved since they are basically saying the same thing over and over. I'm no longer a lawyer so I don't know how widespread such software is in that industry.

Lars - I say "good riddance" because in my experience the vast majority of cursive is difficult to read and therefore IMO a less effective means of communication. In contrast, all but the most terrible print is generally quite legible. I think we should continue to teach it at least to the point where proper cursive can be read, but I don't see the point of promoting/requiring it. End result I won't shed a tear if it shifts towards the status of caligraphy: something that we should be able to read, something that some people may take pride in learning, something that's not used unless the writer chooses to take the time and effort to do the "art" justice.

For whatever reason, I am not very good at cursive. I gave it up long ago, even before computers were the norm. Whenever I have to write in cursive it takes me much longer, but it always did. Not sure why, but cursive just didn't click with me. I can do it, but it looks bad when I do. I like to handwrite letters though. That's a dying art but for me it is a great pleasure.

Do you feel that you can discern something about a person from their handwriting? Are you able to describe an example? Can you do this more so with their cursive, or their printing?

In France, 15 or so years ago, some employers still required a handwritten cover letter from a job applicant. The thought was that the handwriting offered some clues into the person's personality. I don't have direct knowledge of this, but it was explained by my friends who were graduate students, and all had fountain pens for just that purpose. I don't know if this is still the custom. France's traditional ways are eroding too. French teens text each other in this horrid ''SMS Francais'' that is every bit as unattractive as America kids' ''texting''. I think cursive is still taught in France, though.

To me it is the message, not the medium. I rarely write in cursive anymore, and my kids never do. Who cares? Just so long as they commit their thoughts somehow.

Jo

Posted by johnliu "-------Do you feel that you can discern something about a person from their handwriting? Are you able to describe an example? Can you do this more so with their cursive, or their printing? -------"

What about left-handed people?

dcarch

Left-handed people are sinister, that's about all you need to know.

When I was a kid, I used my left hand a lot. My dad actually tied my left hand behind by back to force me to become right handed. Weird, eh? Well, my grandmother's feet were bound. So I got off easy.

Jo, I recommend that you read Marshall McLuhan's book The Medium Is The Message, first published in 1967. It was required reading for a college course I took in 1971 on Media Culture. To answer the question "Who cares?" I would say that there are plenty of people. I have a particular interest in old writings and ancient texts. In addition to handwriting adding another dimension to one's expression, the language used is also important. I am always sad when old communications are lost, and we have essentially no understanding of how language originated and what changes it has gone through. Some languages (and especially ancient lost ones) have special meanings based on the pitch of voice used, as in singing. I welcome new ways to communicate but not at the expense of losing old ones. At some point it may become overwhelming to some people, but not to me.

I am also somewhat ambidextrous, and I taught myself this so that I can cut the hair on the left side of my head with my left hand - and this while looking into two mirrors, which took a bit of practice.

Incidentally, because I can read German handwriting, I am able to read letters written by ancestors in the 19th century concerning the sale of various pieces of real estate that they owned in Germany so that they could use the money to buy land in Texas. Unfortunately, my ancestors had bad penmanship, and German handwriting is already difficult to read.

Lars

Lars,

Your handwriting may be interesting. You may not have a natural kind of handwriting.

Prior to Autocad, you are required to print very well in drafting, that could have influenced your wrting style.

dcarch

Would anyone be interested in posting a sample of their handwriting? ''the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" or anything else you like? I always like to look at people's handwriting, it adds to the mental image of the person.

Noooooo, you might be a handwriting expert and could learn too much about me if I gave a sample of my handwriting. You know - like body language. ; )

Beverly

Posted by johnliu "Would anyone be interested in posting a sample of their handwriting? "

How about you first?

dcarch

Neither fast nor careful - kind of average for me. If I were writing a letter it would be nicer, when I'm taking notes it is way more scribbly.

Good example. While fairly straight forward to read, I think I only say that because I knew what you were writing. Case in point - I clearly did stumbled on "very" becuase it was unexpected. I don't know how I would have read "over" had it been in another context.

I guess I'm more out of practice than I thought. I tried to write the sentence in cursive and couldn't. Even slowly and deliberately, I had to start over a few times because I'd mess up when I had to think about how to write a letter. So if I did mangage to get it out, it wouldn't be "my" handwriting at all, but more like that of a kid practicing penmanship.

I wrote the sentence as quickly as I could in print. It was sloppy and I'm sure it took me longer to write than what others could do in cursive, I doubt anyone would have much of a problem reading it.

Okay, here's something slightly more random. Readable? ***

I think that, just as fewer people write cursive today, fewer people can read it easily. That said, no question that neat printing is the easiest handwriting to read, even if it is the slowest handwriting to write.

On a prior question, I don't think handwriting analysis goes away with cursive. Printing differs greatly from person to person, so a forensic graphologist will still have clues to work with. I read an article by such on the handwriting of several serial killers, and he had things to say about the killers who printed as well as those who used cursive. Please note that the handwriting above is not ''serial killer'' writing. Although there is some over-sizing of the lower loops, that merely indicates the writer is of base tastes.

*** Dylan Thomas.

''Do not go gentle into that good night.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.''

Mine:

Beautiful, dcarch. Your handwriting is as elegant as your plating. No serial killer there!

Have you always written like this, or was this a hand that you developed deliberately?

The shapes look very French, actually.

Thanks John.

Food decorating takes a lot of effort and skills, but paying a little attention when dumping food on a plate does not. That’s what I do most of the time.

Calligraphy is difficult and time consuming, but being careful with handwriting is not.

Plating of food makes food taste better, good handwriting conveys emotions more expressively, and neither takes more time or money.

My handwriting ended up looking like that from having written a few love letters. You will agree that love letters should not be coming from a typewriter.

dcarch

Am I the only one who uses a ball point pen? LOL! The fountain pen does add a nice touch. Wouldn't do much for my chicken scratch though I'm afraid.

dcarch - You must have written a LOT of love letters for it to affect your penmanship, huh? I would have never guessed you to be such a romantic!

I quit almost all cursive after grade school. Teachers always harped at me terrible about how I write. I learned to type before I was a teenager. In HS I hit 45 wpm, in college about 60, and in the early chat rooms topped 100 wpm in short bursts. I could type so fast I'd spell words I didn't know I knew how to spell. In my 30s tendon pain set in from factory work and I switched to an ergonomic keyboard which dropped my speed down to 30-40 wpm.

At work I mostly print. My signature is cursive and drives handwritting "experts" nuts. My first name is written with lots of powerful downstrokes and neat enough to read every letter. My last name comes out as a flourish with about three letters available to the imaginative eye.

My printing is distinctive and recognised by everyone at work. I don't know exactly what... I think I mix print with cursive a bit. I need sign nothing for most everyone at work to identify me as the author. My numbers in particular I take care to see they are clear. Some sillys were upset by my cross-bars on my sevens which prompted a spirtited defense on my behalf by an older office lady.

I was flunked out of a college course for printing my final exam. It was just Soviet Foreign Policy Process... so nothing but ancient history now. Think I irked the Prof a bit as my final paper predicted the fall of the Soviet Union and rise of India in world power... I had no clue it would really happen.

Oh.. and I have other quirks I've aquired... like a series of periods seperating thoughts. Probably picked that up from reading Nietzsche's aphorisms. On the net I often make up words like dunno or gotcha that make sense phonetically.

Gladwedon'twriteliketheGreekswithoutspacesbetweenwords.

Going afk... beer time in Silverwood with Jessica.

: )
lyra

And, John, what evidence have you set forth that your handwriting is NOT that of a serial killer?

Are we to believe that the alleged oversizing of the lower loops is not a deliberate attempt to, oh, never mind. Great puddle of consciousness subject, dying cursive.

I was struck by---When our daughter was home last summer, between semesters of freshman and soph year at the Univ. of Montana, I gave her a shopping list of things to pick up. This kid has had the benefit of a pretty good education. She looked at me, returned the list to me, and said, "that's in cursive". (As if she figured out that the list was in heiroglyphyics or the Rosetta stone should apply here. sp) Without losing a beat, this old lady rewrote the shopping list in print. The seed was planted in my brain.

A few days later, my brilliant grandson, age 10, who by any measure is truly gifted, visited. I asked him to write something. He printed. When I asked him, he said, "I like to write. It's fast." And he was printing, not writing in cursive. He summarily dismissed any discussion of cursive, which he had been taught within the last few years. To him, writing was printing, not writing in cursive. I was then convinced that cursive was dying.

And a few days after that, I received a thank-you note for a college graduation present. The recipient printed. College. Cursive, dead.

Wouldn't you know it!! One of the few things I do well is a dying skill.

BunnyMan, That's interesting about your prognostication.

DCarch, that's beautiful; but I would expect no less from you.

My son informed me yesterday, he's a relic at his school as he is the only one who writes in cursive. They're given the choice and no one else wants to do so.

:(

I still write in cursive, but not as well I as I used to, as I type a thousand times faster (above 93 words a minute. That was my last test). So, for efficiency sake, I type. I like to write though.

I write in cursive almost all the time. My notes for myself that I make during client meetings or phone calls are always in cursive. I will print addresses on boxes but write in cursive on an envelope for a thank you or greeting card. Personal notes are always in cursive. I occasionally do calligraphy professionally.

I do not seem to have the receptors resident to learn to type with any proficiency. I write much faster than I type. My typing is strictly hunt and peck. Hunt, peck, delete, peck...repeat.

I actually hand-wrote a physical letter this weekend, to a friend in Melbourne. On paper and everything. I feel absurdly proud of myself, like a little kid who's finished a book report. However, I couldn't find printed photos to enclose, so a USB drive is scotch-taped to the last page with 500MB of images. Hopefully my friend will actually be able to read my letter. Do they write backwards in Australia?

westsider40, I'll admit to serially killing brain cells, but that was a long time ago. I've paid my debt to society.

Here is a sample from my chalk board (that I made). However, I write a little better with pen than with chalk!

Beautiful. I love seeing really nice cursive, like yours. I couldn't do that.

I don't think you are a serial killer . . .

You can tell a lot from one picture.

1. You are an extremely well organized person.
2. You have a great sense of design ��" judging from the selection of wallpaper with that little bit of what I can see the rest of the kitchen, and the design of the chalkboard.
3. You have a very good camera ��" that there is no spherical and parallax distortion in a close up wide angle shoot.
4. You enjoy life.
5. Your style is elegance expressed humbly, and comfortably. Not stylishly oppressive.

Beautiful, mustangs, everything, not just the handwriting.

dcarch

After having met Mustangs, dcarch, I'd say you're RIGHT on every count!

I just read this for the first time, so I'll put in my 2 cents, since that's about all it's worth. I write using a combination of cursive/printing, which I guess is kind of odd. What does that say about me? I also like a nice fountain pen, and keep extra ink cartridges in an old Kodak aluminum film can with me when I'm traveling about. I started practicing my handwriting when I noticed it was getting very bad, and will say it's helped the arthritis in my fingers somewhat (if I don't go overboard.)

I love seeing all your examples!

Dcarch, THANK you! Coming from someone with your creativity, I am overwhelmed. I printed your response and will keep it in a special place.

CdL, thank you also for your comment.

My son, 11 y/o, has terrible handwriting. I've figured out A Plan. He's getting his very own journal and a calligraphy pen, and I'm going to ask him to write for just 10 minutes a day. On any topic he wants. His ideas for Lego projects. The cool things he knows about the Solar System. His favorite dance moves. What he wants Santa to know. What he wants Santa to bring.

My son, 11 y/o, has terrible handwriting. I've figured out A Plan. He's getting his very own journal and a calligraphy pen, and I'm going to ask him to write for just 10 minutes a day. On any topic he wants. His ideas for Lego projects. The cool things he knows about the Solar System. His favorite dance moves. What he wants Santa to know. What he wants Santa to bring.

The journal and calligraphy pen sound like a wonderful idea. It can only get better. I believe that fine, small motor control improves with age and also that most boys are not interested in pretty writing. Perhaps relate architecture to nicer writing.

My 48 yr. old son grabs a pen and looks like he is going to print an "X" instead of his name. It's almost, and may be, a grip where the pen is held by four fingers surrounding it. He also prints/ writes and presses down hard on the paper, enough to make indentations. An observer, a caring observer, could guess that he has a hard time with writing/printing. He hunts and pecks on the computer and claims that he is proficient and fast (probably in defense of an anticipated suggestion from mom that typing lessons are in order). In kindergarten he was tested and we learned that his small motor skills were at a 2 year old's level.

He played tennis beginning at 5, became a ranked player, #1 singles at a competetive high school, mvp on the college tennis team, and taught tennis during college and law school.

He is now out of state, arguing at the Supreme Court of a southwestern state. Last Feb he did his mommy proud when he argued before the U.S.Supremes, a parental payback. He is a really nice person and has to work extra hard. He talks to himself.

Daughter2 holds a writing implement in an unusual way. Not efficient. Experts told us that after age 9 it is difficult to change one's writing and/or grip. I don't believe that for one moment.

Eye surgeons write illegibly sometimes.

It is a baby wart. The Pittman Honor Roll is as dead as cursive. We want our kids to be perfect in every way, and they really are.

I have never obsessed about my children's penmanship. My son writes in a small careful cursive. I believe he received a penmanship award in the 4th grade. My daughter writes in a generously proportioned, even, and attractive italic print.