I think using LOL after a questionable comment is exactly like ''Bless her heart!''

Never really thought of it, but I suppose it does get used in the same context at times, by some.

Linda

I think that if someone posts LOL on one of your posts, you'd have to check their profile to try to find out where they're from. If they're from "Bless his/her heart" territory, there's a 50% chance that that's what the LOL means and a 50% chance that they just thought it was funny. Once you pass the Mason-Dixon line or go west of the Mississippi, LOL probably has a 90% probability of meaning "Laughing On Line".

I never have lived in the South so I don't know anything about the nuances of "Bless her heart".....but.
I think some use the "LOL" to show that they are really kidding....that they know that what they said is not true and please don't post a follow up saying that the guy walking into the bar didn't really have a banana in his ear.
Others use it to somehow absolve a heavy handed insult as kidding....when in reality they really knew what they said was meant as a cutting remark....and if that's really the way "Bless her heart" works....then I agree.
The "typed" word lacks the facial expression to go with it....so sometimes it is necessary to add a smile or a "shrug" or a smiley face...
but "LOL" doesn't negate rudeness in a remark that preceeds it.
And I don't think I am being pickity in being offended by it.
Linda C

I guess it depends. But it might be similar to a conversation I had with a co-worker in the mid-eighties before the internet took hold. It seemed back then (and maybe now too) that it was okay to say anything you wanted to someone as long as you followed up with "just kidding". For example..."I think you are a real A-hole...just kidding!"

Pretty much the same thing I guess.

Duane

May,
You are exactly right and we're seeing way too much of it on the cooking forum. It is a form of cowardice, if you ask me.

Jo

I think there's also an in between one. Nowadays snark passes for humor. Mean putdowns are considered okay if they're funny. Stuff like that. There are places where that is considered a totally acceptable way to speak to people one doesn't know at all, let alone "forum friends".

Another problem is that sometimes an offhand remark, which is funny enough in the flow of conversation, sounds really awful in isolation when someone pops into the middle to see new messages, as seems to have happened just now in one of the Discussion threads.

The Laughing Out Louders might be too busy laughing to notice that someone is offended, so perhaps a kind word to inform them would be appropriate.

I don't do snark, but I laugh a lot in these forums, and do "LOL!" when something strikes me as funny, but I'd never say anything purposefully that was insulting or offensive, so I hope someone would tell me if what I'd thought was amusing was taken as offense by someone.

that's the thing, though Plllog. I don't think they see the humor. I think they know it is mean, but hide behind the LOL. My kids do that sometimes, but then again, they are teenagers. I have told them that saying "I am only kidding" never excuses a mean comment.

Jo, I was just thinking of that one thing where someone thought a post by another someone wasn't funny, and sounded a bit insulted, but the LOLing comment didn't seem mean or insulting to me (exterior third party). And it was a joke which I thought was moderately funny in context. It wasn't a big deal because no one over reacted or anything. I just saw a misunderstanding and wondered if that wasn't sometimes what was happening, especially when "running the dozens", "taking the mickey", and other forms of sarcastic and insulting conversational humor is a standard cultural form of communicating with friends for many people in many regions.

I'm sure there must be some who are just as y'all describe. But I think there are others who sincerely think they're playing with friends who aren't aware that their snarky comments aren't acceptable to people from other cultures and other regions.

I absolutely agree. I'm a smart mouth, usually, and add the "LOL" to let people know that I KNOW I'm being a smart mouth, that I'm not serious.

There are a couple of others, however, who say nasty, rude, mean or snide things and add the "LOL" because they know they are going to get slapped down and then they can whine and say they were just kidding, didn't we see the "LOL"?

I think the poster(s) just want to stir something up and then whine that they are always picked on because, after all, they were just kidding.

But what do I know, I'm just another old hen, clucking along and being pickety...

Annie

Well put, Annie....

When I'm offended or annoyed by a post and choose to respond I never use LOL because I'm not LOL ing and I want them to know it!

I do use the acronym but only when I think something someone said is funny or I'm poking light hearted fun at myself or others.

If someone types something snarky and then types LOL , thinking that makes it all OK, it doesn't.

By the way , I also put "just saying" in the same category as LOL when used to justify a snarky remark.

But I think there are others who sincerely think they're playing with friends who aren't aware that their snarky comments aren't acceptable

Oh yes they know exactly what they are doing. Trust us, it's been discussed. And it poisons the forum. This recurring drama started before you joined - it is one of the reasons Ann hasn't reinstated the swaps.

Jessyf,

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know this topic was about a specific problem. So far everyone here has been nice enough to me. But then there was one thread where I didn't understand why it had gone all testy, then later figured out that a bunch of offensive posts had been deleted. I guess this also explains what have seemed to me as a newbie like mild overreactions to certain things--I guess there are undercurrents held over from before.

How sad to have such poison in a forum about cooking!

"they know it is mean, but hide behind the LOL."

passive aggression.

"It's for your own good" is another one.

"I'm not laughing *at* you, I'm laughing *with* you."

I hate LOL, I'm never quite sure what the poster means when they add it. Laughing out loud, at who? or what? or why? Be clear, use words that mean what they mean, and don't be snarky with strangers!! What about starting a new one - BHH. Guess what it could stand for!! And I do sincerely wish blessings on all of you!

Steve

LOL gives your voice a chuckle, ;-) gives your face a wink. Pretty straight forward. Neither negates what you just said, it just qualifies the tone of your delivery. Beyond that, how your comments are taken has more to do with your relationship with the audience.

Kind of like someone behind you beeping at you for no apparent reason. You look in the rear-view mirror. It's a friend? Smile, roll down the window and wave. Don't know him? Slam on the brakes and run him into a ditch. Same beep, different outcome.

That stranger beeping behind you could also be trying to tell you that you're driving around with your baby's car seat on the roof--and your baby still in it. Not every beeping stranger has hostile intent.

But remind me not to beep at you anyway, FOAS. ;o)

Wow. I use LOL to signify I am being light hearted or think it's funny. If it doesn't come across that way, I'm certainly going to think about it carefully before saying LOL next time.

LOL Maureen (oops, there I went and said it again!) A few years back I was driving back from Home Depot with a load of sheetrock in my truck. Stopped at a light, road pitched uphill, waiting to make a right-on-red onto a two lane road. Right lane became free, there was a car coming in the left. So I turned into the right lane and the oncoming car in the left started beeping madly. I probably flipped him the bird. Next thing my whole (unsecured) load of sheetrock dumped out on the road.

Yeah, you're right. Sometimes those that beep aren't just being jerks!

Stumpy, you were almost right. That LOL thing is something you write as a comment on a comment of yours or about a comment of someone else's.
A Beep is a greeting or an affront or an insult or an acknowledgement of a favor, or a warning... Beep can mean "hi friend" or "back off" or "check your tire" or "hi Good lookin'!" or "Thanks for letting me into the line" or "be careful, I am closer than you think", or even "I am here to pick you up."
LOL is none of those things but perhaps an insult when said to "cover" an insulting remark.

Back to the original question, we don't have the "bless your heart" thing here, though I've heard it plenty elsewhere. When I first heard it used, by someone much my elder, it was a way of ameliorating plain speaking with love. As in, she's dumb as a rock, bless her heart, but we all love her and help her out. Around here (So. Cal.), people will say she's dumb as a rock, being just descriptive without thinking they're being unkind, but with nothing to cue love and tolerance, so, at least the old style "bless her heart" was much nicer.

I'm wondering if it maybe didn't used to be that way, but then when comedians started observing that you could say any old thing and get away with it if it was joined to "bless his heart" (a joke that was making the rounds about 20 years ago), then the people coming up started using it that way. Michael Douglas was saying in an interview recently about how startled he was when biz school students would come up to him all jazzed about "greed is good" never quite getting that it was the evil motto of the bad guy.

"LOL" can't cover an obvious insult. It just makes it worse--it says, "I'm being nasty to you and laughing about it too." I've been online since the days these abbreviations were invented, so I tend to read "LOL" as seriously meaning "laughing". "LOL, you're dumb as a rock," for instance, means "I'm an egotistic SOB who thinks you're too dumb to be hurt by my saying you're dumb and that just makes me laugh." There's no "just kidding" there.

At least with the "bless your heart" there's an implied good wish! Calling blessings on someone might be to help the implied flaw, whereas laughing at them just means the insult plus pointing them out as a point of ridicule. So, no, I don't think they're equivalent. I think hiding insults behind laughter is much worse!

Back to "bless her heart"....

Coming from a place where "bless her heart" is frequently heard, I think it too can have more than one meaning as in, "and did you know she wore her black patten shoes in December, bless her heart" - a sort of pitying kind of put-down, poor thing...she just didn't know better.

or, "well, bless your heart, you really didn't have to bake that lovely pound cake for my grandbaby's christening! Another way to say thank you to someone for doing something thoughtful.

Like LOL and other responses, it's all in the context of when and why it is being said.

Teresa

Teresa I will never forget the 'Bless her heart' tutorial at Bread camp!!!!

God Love 'Em..... another version of BHR. Just ask our VP!

Here is a link that might be useful: Biden's God Love 'Em

Yes, y'all do see my point. Yes, the context makes a difference. I often use LOL when I actually thing something is funny. Most of the time I'm litterally Lauging Out Loud at something someone has written.

It's just the comments that come across as insulting that are followed by LOL and then later defended by saying, "Didn't you see the LOL?" that irk me. We seem to be on the same page about that.

I wish I knew how we could stop that whole stream of snarkiness that is running through the forum. My best solution is to ignore the comments, and even better, ignore the people who make a habit of posting them.

And when I say ignore, I don't just mean ignore the offending post. I mean ignore all of that poster's posts. IMO, the quickest way to stop someone from snarking is to make them seem invisible, all the time.

I know what you're saying May.

May, I completely agree with what you're saying, and try to do that most of the time. That's why I haven't been around much. Every time I drop by to pick up a recipe or some pointers, or just check in with my imaginary friends, I end up feeling angry or annoyed about some nasty comment followed by a "LOL!!!" that's been made, or some other harmess post that's taken a nasty turn. So I just stay away.

Ignoring it is the right thing to do, I remind myself that it comes from a place of ignorance and (hopefully) not maliciousness. But at the same time, it's hard for me to let a misogyinistic or otherwise offensive post go by without saying something. Although, it's been said and called out so many times with no change in behavior that clearly the offender is either too simple to understand, or not willing to change. Knowing that makes it much easier to ignore completely.

AM

May, I agree, I tend to completely ignore the insulter(s) and all of their posts. Even the nice ones go unanswered by me, I've decided that in my world, that poster(s) just doesn't exist.

If we stop responding, they don't get the attention they are seeking and I'm still of the opinion that it is purposeful and malicious.

There are only a couple of posters who elicit that type of response, so the snarkiness can easily be tracked to just a few...maybe even fewer than that.

Annie

Well, I haven't had much time on the forum, so I'm probably oblivious. (Well, I certainly am lots of the time, but that's another issue.) I rarely notice the insults, and when I do see one, I guess I just ignore it or avoid that thread from then on.

I've used lol fairly often, but I hope I haven't said anything offensive to any one. I am not a fan of insult humor, which is probably why I rarely watch sit coms any more.

Sally

Even the nice ones go unanswered by me

If we stop responding, they don't get the attention they are seeking

Ya, exactly. It's not necessarily an easy thing to do but once you set your mind to it you just get used to SOBing (scrolling on by) whenever you see those particular posters' names.

I used to get sucked into responding and probably even adding to the angst but now I just ignore it all. Life is way too short.

Lets face it, there are only about 5 or 6 posters who just can't let things go and they are on both sides of the aisle.

To them I say ...let it go........we don't care whose right 'cause none of you are!

I'm in the same position as Sally. Being quite new here, and not reading every thread, I hadn't seen the offensive posts and thought, originally, that May's initial question was more general. I'd just like to point out two things: The first is that I've seen some very testy replies to not such offensive posts. I think a constant barrage, based on personalities and history rather than specific behavior, might make the bad behavior worse. It's the old dog, new tricks thing. The old dog can't figure out which particular behavior he's being smacked for so he keeps on doing everything just hoping to get attention.

A campaign of silence, secondly, is likely to produce an extinction burst. It will work in the long run, but the bad behavior will be increased in both frequency and volume for quite awhile before then, escalating while the subject tries and tries to get the expected attention.

JC

JC,
I'm sure you're right. If I'm trying to get attention and everyone's ignoring me, I'll just scream louder for that attention. I hadn't thought of that.

The thing is that the people who seem to be deliberately causing contention are not seen that way by everyone. They are seen that way, as far as I can tell, by the vast majority, but not by everyone.

So no one is ever really going to get totally ignored. There are posters here that I specifically do not ever reply to, regardless of the post. Very very few, but they are there. And I do see others getting into it with those specific posters. And I see it happening repeatedly.

What I'm saying is, if there is a poster who annoys you most of the time, disregard that poster's comments all of the time.

And who are those posters? Well, that's for you to decide. If no one appears that way to you, then ok, go on about your merry way and don't worry about it.

IMO, the more *I* answer someone, the more *I* encourage that person to post. So for me, the best response to a poster for whom I have no affection is to just ignore them.

I'm not (and I don't think anyone else is) saying, "Let's boycott poster XYZ." I'm saying for everyone to make their own judgment call and disregard the posters that bother them, on their own, without announcing it in any way.

My theory is that if everyone does this, the snarkiness and bickering will diminish greatly.

I've made a point over the last year or so to try and ignore one person in particular. Unfortunately I have not always been successful. It seems whenever there is unpleasantness he is right in the middle of it. Your advice is good May and I'm going to do my best to follow it. Thanks

Ann

Me too, Ann. I keep trying to tell myself "he does not exist in my world", just as you've said. Sometimes it works.

Annie

Add me to the list of people who will be wearing "blinders" when it comes to that particular individuals posts. I am going to use my non-smokers acronym to try to stick to that pledge.... NOPE (Not One Post Ever).

Thanks for the reminder

Alexa

I learned the SOB a long time ago..easy enough on the internet.

Nancy

I've been proud of my ability the last couple of days to hold my tongue and not rise to the possible "bait." My teeth are gritting, but I'm hanging in there.

T.

LOL! (Denotes an actual laugh) May, I wasn't trying to be contentious. Just warning about some of the psychological tropes.

My mother has always said, "Least said, soonest mended."

I type fast. You might have noticed that brevity isn't my strong suit. But I do delete a lot of stuff before it's posted!!

There's also the Petruchio method for the determined and brave. :)

JC

The "extinction burst" may happen....but I did some independent work with pigeons determining ways to effect changes in the extinction curve and found that random reinforcement more than doubled the length of the curve.
And the Petruchio method has been tried with little or no change in behavior.
The good old SOB likely is the best solution.
Hang in there all you pickety cluckers!
Linda C

Oh JC, I never thought you were!! (being contentious)

You actually did bring up a good point. It was something I'd not thought of before. And it is something to be considered.

And it made me think about, what the heck IS my point, anyway? So thanks for helping me to clarify my thoughts.

I think my response to you must've sounded like I was irked. I wasn't at all! :)

Thanks, May! I learned a long time ago that an unnecessary apology is better than one not given.

plllog VERY true!

I've been avoiding it, until now. "...without announcing it in any way" seems paramount in this process. Saying that you're ignoring, isn't igoring. Ignoring means you do nothing, not even say you're doing nothing. I am reiterating as this part doesn't seem to be catching on. I wish the subject would end forever. There are snarky comments on both sides of this issue. We get it already, even if we're not taking sides. I agree that LOL can mean many things. I would take it in the context in which it is stated. If the person is a joker, they're joking. If not, well, then you decide. I love you all, very much.

Rob, we love you too, and that's no LOL.

Truthfully, though, I don't care whether they know I'm ignoring them or not, I just figure if I don't respond it doesn't affect me. So, I'm not trying to change their behavior or make them different or even make them angry. I can only control my own reaction, and my own participation in whatever is going on, and so it just doesn't affect me if I don't allow it to.

Now, I realize that this could elicit a "how many times can I poke you in the chest before you get ticked" response, but I'm trying.

Annie

I feel like I'm stuck in the movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray. New day same carp. I hope, like in the movie things turn out for the better in the end. Other than that it's just SOB for me.

I hope y'all know my LOLing is for fun at myself or the situation....maybe towards a little fun banter with some of y'all. That's what I've always loved about this place...food and fun.

David