Run! run! Run!

dcarch

Here is a link that might be useful: run

Hmmm...what a story and what a decision to make at 50. I have been running since 1978 so have somewhat more experience :)

Running without injury or pain is something that requires thought and preparation. It also requires use of weights to insure that the muscles/ligaments/tendons get stronger to support the bones. Almost all injuries are caused because the runner thought they were getting in shape with just the running and then discovered that their knees get injured when the musculature doesn't keep the tendons and ligaments in line and pain and suffering ensue.

There are a number of things that you are doing that will likely lead to injury and at the very least you will quit running due to discomfort. A great misconception is one you already discovered...cycling gets you in shape for cycling...nothing else :) Running for running and rowing for rowing...you see where this is going.

On the other hand weight lifting gets you in shape for everything. So you need to add in a well-rounded plan at a local gym to strengthen all the supporting areas that are involved in running...this definitely includes the upper body !! You use it to stabilize yourself when running, something that will help with the lurching etc.

Shoes...you need to go to a good store and get fitted for the shoe that suits your weight, foot type, surface you are running on, your weight etc. The fitting needs to be done by someone that KNOWS what they are doing.

Starting out...you should go to a local running club and sign up for a beginner class that prepares you for running a 5 k at the end of the series. Barring that you, should get a book on " how to run". This isn't exactly necessary but it sure would answer a lot of your questions and prevent you from making some mistakes you are currently making.

You are running way way to fast in between stop lights...way too fast. You should NEVER run so fast that you can't talk at the same time as you are running. It is what I did when I first started out on the streets of SLC in 1978. I would go along the sidewalk and mutter out loud so that I could pace myself. Mind you there is elevation in SLC and I was from New Orleans so I was GASPING !! It worked though. I had to go ever slower but I finally found my speed and was comfortable. You need to SLOW down. You need to get off of pavement. It is the worst place on earth to run. FInd a trail ( you see what my name is :) ) and slowly run along the paths in a park or forest area...slowly pace yourself...you will develop a gait that works for you. You also need to run/walk alternating. Never increase your distance more than 10 % . Get off of the treadmill !! It is unforgiving and you are likely setting it too fast !!

Do you see a pattern here ???? Go slower...get some stuff from the library to read about " how to start running". Join a local running club and start their beginner class . Get off the pavement and onto a softer more scenic setting. Go slower !! Get into the gym and get your supports in place. Get the right shoe . ( the above is in no special order...do all )

I will check back..also you can feel free to email me through GW. You are not too old to start at all but you are should be getting better prepared if you really want to do this for the long haul. c

Thanks!

Your advice lines up with what I've recently heard from two friends who run, though neither has remotely near your experience. Get proper shoes; run slower and work up to longer.

I hadn't heard about weight training for running, so that is helpful - I will definitely find out more.

Getting off the pavement? There are some urban-type parks where I could run laps, and some high school tracks too. The nearest place for real trails is Forest Park on the west edge of town, so I'll try that.

Running clubs - hmm, I will look around and see what we have. There must be scads of running clubs in Portland.

I linked to one that came up. They have lots of training nights and will have all kinds of good advice.

Do definitely check out non-pavement areas for running. I could write volumes but ...I won't :) The main thing about running on pavement vs trails is the difference in every step. Repetitive movement is your enemy. Think "tennis elbow". You want to vary your weight placement and length of stride with every step. When you are on pavement the majority of the time you are using the exact same movement every single step. On trails not only are you varying your steps you are also utilizing accessory muscles to allow you to move up and down the terrain. This allows you to put the stress on a variety of body parts while never over -doing on any one area.

This is why I stressed the muscle development..which in reality you should have been doing for the bicycle also. One is never just using their legs to pedal or their feet to run. YKWIM ??? The muscles in your body are linked to the bones and the ligaments and tendons. All work together. You have to have strong muscles in order for the entire structure to be stable. The ligaments and tendons act as the ropes on a sailboat...they move and pull and stretch but if one breaks then you are in trouble. You want them to be supported by the wooden structure of the boat and you want them to be flexible ..they don't do the job alone. All has to work together and be strong. It is a team effort in your body. Many many runners forget this and think they can run and never work out. Up to a point they are correct but at 50 you will be in trouble in short order.

Be kind to your body and you can have a delightful new outlet for your energy. I look forward to hearing what you have come up with .

I had the date wrong up above...I actually started in 1977 in SLC. We lived on 13th East just up from SugarHouse Park. The site of my 1st ever 5 K. I was chugging along at what I thought was a great pace. Suddenly a gray haired lady pulled up next to me and looked over at my sweating straining countenance and said " you'll get better with time , dear " . She ran off...I didn't do another 5K for 14 years !! haha...I was so bummed. But..I did get a lot better LOL.

I went on to do 24 ultramarathons. I never have done a regular marathon. I skipped from 10K's to ultras. I did my first 50 K in Feb 1996 and my last 100 miler in 2000. I stopped racing after that and started back running for me and not the timer. Haven't worn a watch while running since 1999. I took up bike touring in 2010 and did my ride from St Augustine to San Diego 3200 miles then and in 2011 rode from Key West to Bar Harbor ME 2800 miles . Then last year in 2012 I was riding across Canada from Victoria BC up the island and took the ferry through the inside passage and down the Yellowhead Hwy and was part way across Saskatchewan when both my riding partner and my son got sick so after 1600 miles in 5 weeks I had to come home. I have plans for shorter rides but think the really long tours are out for now. I have my trailer and my panniers to hold all my gear and love to camp every night for months and see the world. Who knows what is in store.

Oh and one more thing...take off the heart monitor and don't wear a watch....run and walk according to how you feel . Please don't become a slave to the numbers. Let your body tell you how it feels and how fast is fast enough. Don't talk to other runners and compare notes...you are you and you need to do what works for you. Running 2 miles at a slow pace and feeling good is worth more than running 2 miles at a " ___ pace and hurting all over and feeling like you "failed" cause Joe was faster !

If you are in this for the long haul and the love of running you will let the sport and your body speak to you. Good Luck and keep me posted. c

Here is a link that might be useful: ORRC

John,

As I noted on your breakfast thread, my DS (Jim) started running as a kid. He was quite good and established several records (1000m indoor and 800m outdoor) that held long enough to get him on the cover of several regional mags and earn himself a scholorship. Jim has found that to keep running safely as he's aged much the same thing as trailrunner has described. He does that by constant cross-training.

Jim lifts on a regular basis but doesn't follow a consistent work-out routine. He mixes it up between circuit training and strength. In addition, he enters a couple of those "Muddy Buddy" events every summer, does charity bike rides (did his first American Diabetes 50K in Kennebunk in 2012), snowboards in winter almost every weekend as a family activity, and also is a member of a snowmobile club. Then, when it's time to run his whole body is ready for the effort. He's younger than you (40) but he's also a Type I diabetic. Now, he's got my oldest granddaughter running.

Muddy Buddy

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50K Bike Ride (Jim's on the right with his buddy)

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Digging out his sled with a little help from his friends (red jacket)

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Catching some air on his snowboard last winter

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Pointing his finger at Mom as she takes yet another pix of him entered in some sporting event (Mountain Challenge at Sunday River, included a 10K as part of the challenge)

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And he's coached my granddaughter well

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Variety is an important key to keeping your body strong. As Jim's Mom, I can also say that spending a few bucks every year on properly fitting shoes appropriate for the sport also helps!

/tricia

I was on the track team in Jr. High, but I had gotten my growth a bit earlier than the other boys - not that I had any huge growth spurts at any time, but at 14 I was almost as tall as I am now. I got my early experience with running from playing tag at school, and no one could catch me - probably because they would give up before I would. I didn't like track, and the competitions gave me horrible butterflies in my stomachs, and I was always afraid of disappointing the team members. I quit track the next year. I was never an endurance runner but was very fast for sprints.

When I moved to San Francisco, I generally lived on the third floor of a walk-up flat and was used to a lot of stairs. Besides that, I walked most places and could easily sprint up and down hills. When I would visit Mexico City from SF, I was able to dash across Avidena Reforma with the swiftest of little old ladies. My downfall was when I moved to Austin from SF and had a car. However, in Austin I started taking PE classes every semester, and that helped, plus I bought a bike and rode that to university most of the time, although the bus system was good for students.

I like hiking and climbing hills, but I do not enjoy running and so not think I ever did after running track. I used to like running through the pastures as a child, and the ground was somewhat soft and therefore did not hurt my joints or feet. I've always enjoyed swimming more than any other exercise, and the one thing I did like about Austin was Lake Travis, where I could go and swim from one cove to another and meet friends. The water was warm from about April through October, and during the school year, I used the university pools. I took a swimming class and was not very good at it, but I met a friend there who became my wrestling partner, and that made for some very intense workouts. I also took tennis, which I would still like to play, but I am a bit prone to tennis elbow. I played tennis a lot in SF because the climate was perfect for it - generally in the mid 60s - cool enough never to break a sweat or get heated. It's cool enough in WLA also - I just do not have a partner to play with.

In Venice I rode my bike a lot along the beautiful beach bike paths, but after 12 years, that got old, and so the last three years I was there I seldom visited the beach. Kevin and I have wetsuits, and we used to bodyboard and surf when we lived in Venice, and I had bought Kevin a surfboard rack for the side of his bike, to make it easier for us to get to the beach. We're about four miles from the beach now, and so we hardly ever go there, although we did visit downtown El Segundo recently and thought it was very nice. There is an excellent seafood restaurant there, and parking was easy.

John, you failed to mention that El Segundo is also bordered by Westchester, which is where I live now! I doubt that Westchester was ever considered a rough neighborhood (considering how expensive it is), but I agree with you about Inglewood and Hawthorne - I don't know that much about Lawndale. Inglewood and Hawthorne were quiet in the 1950s, however - the Beach Boys grew up in Hawthorne, and I go near their boyhood home to visit Lowe's.

Lars

Back in the 1970's, El Segundo was dominated by Hughes Aircraft and the rest of LA's aerospace industry. I said it was "sheltered", what I meant was that it was almost entirely white. I think I was the only Asian kid in my class, and I can't recall any black or Hispanic classmates although there could have been some. Inglewood, Hawthorne and Lawndale were quite different. There was some racial tension when our team ran there or their team ran in our meets. I don't recall it ever amounting to anything serious, but since I wasn't white or black, I was kind of on the sidelines.

I have a funny, or at least interesting, story about El Segundo. The high school is, or was, directly under the approach path for planes landing at LAX. When I first moved to the town, I couldn't believe the noise of passenger jets overhead. It was a crushing, thundering, shaking roar that came every couple of minutes.

About a year later, I was on the school's tennis court getting ready to serve. I tossed, arched my back, looked up and followed the yellow ball skyward, into the gray belly of a 747 on final approach. Gear down, flaps extended, shimmering heat trails from all four engines, the jumbo jet passed overhead in complete silence. I couldn't hear the plane at all. My brain had learned to completely block the sound.

I haven't been back to El Segundo since leaving high school in 1976. Sometimes I think, when I'm in LA for a conference, maybe I should drive down, look at the school, find the apartment where we lived. And then I think, why bother. I'm not that into the past.

Oh, I was looking at running sites, and came across a picture of the shoes I'm running in now.

If you remember the shoes from the '70's, you know why I semi-randomly chose these - they reminded me of the first Nike waffle racers that we used for XC races

And it seems to me we trained in these

Anyway, I found what seems like a good running store locally.

http://www.portlandrunningcompany.com/

and I'll go by there to see what they recommend for me instead

I remember platform shoes from the 70s. I wore Tretorn tennis/running shoes because they were the only ones I could find that were 100% white, and I bought Tretorn tennis balls because they were white also. I also made white peau de soie tennis shorts that I would wear for more formal tennis matches. I wanted to make my own shoes, but that is something I have not yet learned how to do.

The Home Depot that I go to in Inglewood is right under the flight path also, and so I'm familiar with the sight and sounds of jets. Fortunately, my house is far enough away from the flight paths that the sounds are very minimal, but we do get rather good side views of incoming planes even though we barely hear them. One a half miles south of my house it is a different story.

Westchester was also dominated by Hughes Aircraft and the aerospace industry, but I do not know how it was in relation to El Segundo. Of course Westchester is part of Los Angeles, and El Segundo is a separate city.

I've seen the El Segundo HS, and it is a very pretty building. I can understand not being interested, however. I am not interested in visiting my old HS, but I have different feelings about the universities I went to.

Lars

I wore Bata tennis shoes in the 1970's, because they held up the best. I played tennis 3 and 4 hours a day during high school, and my shoes were always wearing through on the toes and heels. I tried Tretorns but they weren't as durable. In the 1980's I wore K-Swiss because I liked their look. I tried playing tennis again a few years ago, but my ankles were too weak and limited. They are healed now, and I might try playing again.

I've never run nor been a runner, but Elery was. He ran 10 miles a day for years and did a 5K in 16 minutes in his late 30s. He gave up running at about 45 years old because his knees and hips were pretty much toast and the doc told him he had to after back surgery.

He says that you have to get off the concrete, you have to get better shoes and you have to slow down. He repeated the "don't run so fast you can't talk" advice and also says nothing will get you in shape for running except running.

So, that sounds like everything trailrunner just told you, nothing new, some relatively small but important changes in your routine. I do have to add that he says he wouldn't suggest it to anyone "your age", LOL, but he's 61.

Good luck, and have fun. I find that if you don't really like an activity you should find another one if you're going to stick with it. It's hard to go out and do something every day if you grind your teeth and do it although you hate it.

Annie

Annie I am 62 :) I feel like the reason I can still do what I do is the cross-training...I am cross when I am NOT training LOL...and the fact that speed was not of paramount importance to me. I have plenty of trophies and did OK but was never in the " big leagues" like Elery as far as speed. My best time was 46 miles in 8 hrs. It was an endurance race Howl at the Moon and you went as far as you could in 8 hrs.It was one of my most favorite events. The toughest was the 100 miler in Haliburton Natl forest north of Toronto. Out and back 2 x on a 25 mile trail...wolves howling all night in the woods and shadows jumping out of the dark...haha..headlamps play funny tricks !

I love the bike touring because at the end of the day you have ridden 50-60 miles and are still ready to go out and have fun. It doesn't beat you up at all and it is amazing what you get to see at 12 mph day after day. Life is very different in the slow lane.

John,,,have fun !! And please do post back as to how things are going. c

Here is a link that might be useful: Howl at the Moon

trailrunner, Elery loved to run and he'd still be doing it if he hadn't had the back surgeries (which were not related to running, so I don't want to sound like running caused those problems). I tried it once, for about two weeks and found that I absolutely hated-detested-abhorred running although I like to walk. I guess it's a good thing we all like different things, because if Elery enjoyed riding horses with me, we'd have to buy another horse, LOL.

The "Howl at the Moon" sounds like fun, but I'd have to walk. (grin)

Annie

Annie I would love to ride a horse !! It is indeed good that we all like different sports. Believe me there are plenty of people walking too. It is a huge party...lots of food and laughter and just fun. c

There is a piece of advice that everyone agrees on - so it must be right - but I don't know why it is right.

It is to run more slowly, typically described as at a pace where you can talk.

What is the rationale for this? Is it meant to spare your joints? Is running slowly for a longer distance easier on your joints than running faster for a shorter distance? Or is it best for your cardio system? The "can talk" detail suggests a "target heart rate" sort of approach?.

Coach taught us, as Jim's parents when he was a kid, that running distance at slower speeds trained him in proper form, developed more efficient cardio, aided in muscle/ligament development, and overall helped to hold injuries at bay. Jim did develop Osgood-Schlatter Disease in middle school and had to be casted for an entire summer but, in general, he's been injury free. He was taught to run distance at a pace where he could sing "Happy Birthday". :) Jim's really a short distance runner although he trains with up to 1/2 marathons. His preferred race though is the 800m. That 50 mile bike ride he did last summer in the rain at Kennebunk was an unusually long distance for him running or biking. Jim does most of his training at the local high school track because he likes to run with the kids. He does his longer distance training at and around Sunday River.

/tricia

Here is a link with very good solid advice. As to being able to talk when running. It will change as you get faster and better. I can talk and run easily at a 9 in pace on the trails. When I first started out years ago there was no way I could have done that. So ...the reasoning behind this is get you to slow down and think about your stride and your breathing and give your body time to adjust. If you think about it you will note people out running and they are doing a 7-8 min mile and they are talking up a storm. As you get into shape with the running your speed will increase and so will your ability to talk at that speed.

Don't rush it !! Yes your joints will pay a price if you go faster and if you are on pavement. Take it easy and think of a conditioning a race horse. They do workouts...every run is NOT a race and every workout is not the same. They didn't start out being able to run the Derby. They took time and years and conditioning.

I saw your other post about your weight. I don't know how much you have gained back but there is a category of runner called Clydesdale. It is anyone at and over 200#. You need to really be aware that the heavier you are the more effort the running takes and the more it will affect your joints. Also you really do need special shoes for the bigger guy as far as support and cushioning. Hope this all helps...feel like I am lecturing..don't mean to :) If we were in the same town we could run ...and talk ! c

Here is a link that might be useful: how fast should you run

Not a Clydesdale . . . yet . . .

:)....there is always another pasta dish to try ! (( )) to you John...keep it together !!

Elery also says that shoes must be good and replaced more often than you think they have to be. He says don't try to save money on shoes!

Trailrunner, I'd love to take you horseback riding. Or maybe I could do "Howl at the Moon" on horseback. I'd try to convince them I was the Headless Horseman, or maybe Robert Burns' Tam O Shanter on a gray mare, LOL.

Annie

ah ,..annie..you are a treat..if I get out there to your place you can bet I will let you know...road trip ! c

Well, I don't know that it's a treat, but I'm something, all right. (grin)

I'd love to meet you any time!

Annie

John..check out my post over on kitchens !! crepes !! I remember a discussion not too long ago about said crepes here on cooking. c

Trailrunner, can you suggest a good source for exercises that will strengthen the muscles that support tendons and ligaments around the knee? I'm not going to be running, just need more stability in my knees for ordinary activities like climbing around in my garden.

hey cloudy...here is a link to a few...if you google strengthen knees -exercises...you can find quite a few links but this should get you started. Start slow and increase on a weekly basis. Make sure and stretch not only at the beginning...after you warm up but also while doing the exercises..stop and stretch. Most people don't do stretches in the midst of exercise but it is the best time as the muscles are already warm. Good Luck and let me know if this helped. c

Here is a link that might be useful: knee exercises

Thank you!

Wow, awesome Trailrunner...making notes! I run on the treadmill 3 to 4 times a week. I don't have any other options. Would you say don't run at all then if you have to use treadmill? Ido worry about my right knee which I have injured before. I really enjoy it, though is great stress reliever. I go slow but fast enough to break a sweat.

Good luck, John and jelly on the horses Annie!

maggie I wouldn't stop the treadmill completely but I would make sure you use the settings that change it up so that you are not going the same pace all the time. Go up hill and fast and slow etc. Also I would vary your workout and use other machines. Stair steppers seem to have gotten a lot better and appear to be real climbers now . Also elliptical is another choice and the cycling classes. Variety is the spice of life. But...most important do not leave off weight training ! Make sure you lift weights. That is the key to no injuries. c

Thanks, TR! I am also doing Jillian micaels body revolution which has quite a bit of weight work but def wish I had time for a gym.