I must have missed the biscotti debate. We all have opinions, sometimes strong opinions, but we all have to realize that not everyone feels the same way as us. I think it is better to "agree to disagree" and move on. I hate it when someone tries to force their opinion down your throat as the only one and is mean and nasty about it. I have seen that on several forums. There is more than one way to do things and one person doesn't have ALL the answers. Even if someone was nasty, I would never report them. That seems so childish. I would just ignore them in the future.
Annie - I seriously doubt it was your fault. And funny I have been thinking the same thing as you lately, "re-thinking my participation on this forum".
I have noticed the last several months a change on this forum and it is not good. 'Just Because You're Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They're Not Out to Get You.' LOL Clare
Wow...I take off for awhile and the whole place goes to heck.
My first post ever on the cooking forum was an introduction I made to everybody. I basically explained how I cooked all day, made all kinds of stuff, cakes, pies, delicious home-made meals; and my daughter who was probably 2 at the time, asked for Kraft mac and cheese. Nobody mocked me. Everybody was very friendly and welcomed me. They know I'm not a great cook. They've helped me learn how to cook, along with some great life lessons along the way.
Sometimes I play a little game here. I read a post without reading who posted it and try to figure out who it was that said something. I'm best at figuring out LindaC, Annie, and Lars. Linda is "opinionated." Arent we all? Just by posting here proves that fact. I bet Linda would be the first to admit she's opinionated. Maybe she comes across too harsh sometimes. That's just Linda. Maybe she's offended me and I haven't responded to it. That's just me (if you're reading, Linda, you haven't...LOL) Linda has a strong personality, but I'll never forget she was one of the first to offer her shoulder when I posted here about the passing of my husband.
I find it hard to believe anybody is sitting there at their computer with somebody holding a gun to his or her head, making them read what they read. I'm allergic to seafood. I don't read seafood threads. I don't visit Star Wars forums or engine construction forums. I don't like those things, so as a big girl, I have decided it's my right to avoid them. I can avoid Linda too if I wanted.
This board has been around for a long time. If you don't like it, find another one. I'm not trying to be rude or unfriendly. I know it comes across that way, but nobody forces anybody to be here. I think Eleanor Roosevelt said Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. Or something like that. If Linda was here she'd correct me if that's wrong. ;)
I've been here a long time, although I know some of the new people wouldn't know me, but this is a group of GENERALLY friendly people. I've met some people in person, from the east coast to the west coast. We've email, exchanged gifts, cried together. When you speak to people daily, that happens. Nobody pushes anybody out. Still, I'm not part of a clique.
HOWEVER, if anybody who IS part of the clique wants to email me to let me know what's up, feel free. Who's the rat? What happened in the biscotti thread? What's your favorite brand of Hamburger Helper? Just kidding (about the hambruger helper).
Something is being overlooked by those pleading to bring lindac back & angry at Tamara/the gardenweb. This forum may feel like it's a personal space shared by the users but it's a business. What pays for us to use it? Ads pay. Each click on a page counts for revenue & if someone is abusive, it cuts down on clicks by decreasing traffic. A few have noted on this thread, it's been busier lately, maybe more lurkers or infreq. posters are posting & if removing one user brings many back, to the owners, that's all that matters. It's nothing personal, purely business.
There's another forum I visit that had a major defection a few yrs ago & went to a delphi forum, most heavy users went along & it ruined the commercial site. The new one is heavily used by the old regulars, but it's self-limiting, there's never ads or anything to drive new users there, so in a way it's dead.
I used to work for specialty retail, the regular customers got this way often too. They felt their loyalty & passion for the niche gave them the right to dictate how the business ran. And when they felt wronged, their wrath was visited on the company. But it doesn't change the fact that it's a business decision, for money not popularity. I'm sure gardenweb has a policy & I bet lindac was warned more than once about her behavior before it came to this drastic action. Most forums clearly forbid abusive language & it's not hard to find examples from lindac that many (granted,not all) would agree are abusive.
edited to add gardenweb's TOS You agree not to send via the GardenWeb Network or post on forums or any other place on the GardenWeb Network any message or material of any kind or nature that is unlawful, harassing, libelous, defamatory, abusive, threatening, harmful, vulgar, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, racially offensive, inaccurate or otherwise objectionable material
This post was edited by jomuir on Tue, Jan 15, 13 at 16:14
Ann T, I also don't think Tamara is directly responsible, she's simply the moderator and I don't THINK she has the authority to simply ban someone at whim.
Jomuir is right in that Gardenweb is strictly revenue driven, though, and those annoying ads are what keeps it in business. None of us really matter, only revenue.
CC, I just got a new computer with Windows 8. I can't seem to download the simplest of programs, it only "loads to desktop" but nothing will run from the desktop.
Firefox won't run on it either, nor would Makayla's precious "Moshi Monsters" run on Firefox on my old computer. I can't get photobucket to work right either. I hate computers.
"Firefox obviously got a slow start in having a Metro-ready browser for the Oct. 26 launch of Windows 8. Internet Explorer 10 is ready, of course. Chrome is too, in a sense, because Google didn't change the user interface much, perhaps betting that most Windows 8 users will be using traditional mice-and-keyboard setups instead of tablets. Mozilla has a long road ahead, as evidenced by the state of this first version and its target date of January for a Firefox 18 release."
Firefox 18 for Windows was released last week. So you should get that.
And here's a link to a very short article that should help with the peculiarities of Windows 8.
Jomuir, I asked a question. Please tell me how you would have worded it differently so as to not offend you?
I asked the question because Tamara isn't the only moderator on this forum, and she isn't the one that the "whiner(s)" have been reporting Linda to. That would be Rosa. And yes I know through Linda that it was Rosa that emailed her in the past when one of the "get Linda gang" complained.
well if you lost the passive/aggressive language that would be a good start ann. First you bait me w/a rude query, then you try to act innocent.
'Please tell me how you would have worded it differently so as to not offend you?'
Absolutely passive/aggressive. Please don't gaslight me annt, that would be how not to offend me. I only mentioned the name that was in numerous posts, never heard of Rosa, but I guess you have.
So Rosa does the banning? Who knew :), other than AnnT through LindaC? Never heard of or from Rosa. It was always Tamara that posted messages on the GW so she would be my guess also. Any other moderators out there?
And I also would think that after X number of warnings you got banned, sort of like 3 strikes you are out.
Annie, we do matter to GW because without posters, the forums are dead and the revenue dries up. But most importanly, you matter to me.
Jomuir, I asked a question that was in no way offensive or snarky.
I don't know you so I'm just going to assume that you are having a bad day and are looking for a fight. You are not going to get one from me. Have a good day.
ann, I'm not looking for a fight with you. But I did feel your question was curt. I should've thought before I posted, your answers can be short at times. I'm having a good day, you have one too!
Thank you, Peppi, I appreciate that. You are, of course, right, but we're only a revenue source to GardenWeb, nothing else, we are a means to an end.
I've never heard of Rosa either, but I'm way out of the loop, I think, being mostly only interested in cooking. I emailed Tamara because she's the one I can easily find and I've never heard of or had contact with anyone else. She's the one who posts all the questions and thread regarding upgrades, etc. Heck, I've only once gotten a "friendly warning" and that was when I mentioned on a Walmart thread that I voted for Ralph Nader, LOL, and it was "from the GardenWeb team" or something similar, not a particular person.
Definitely clueless because I didn't think Ann T's response was anything other than a question, I tend to just take things at face value and not read anything else into them. I'm lazy that way.
I haven't felt the need to post here because my opinion has already been stated repeatedly in the vast majority of the responses above and I don't have much to add.
However, in the interest of keeping this thread from turning into another skirmish I'd like to offer birthday threads as suggested reading to illustrate Ann's writing style. She tends to be matter-of-fact and generally display little emotion. "Happy Birthday." The notable lack of exclamation point makes it stand out when she actually uses one, as she did in Jessica's thread earlier this month. So I tend not to read between the lines with her.
p.s. My warnings seem to come from Rosa. I think they've got a good cop/bad cop thing going on. :)
I've only seen "Garden Web Team" (I asked if someone else could possibly come back and got a "not your business" answer (they were right and it was fine. Privacy and all!).
I was going to say the same thing - that Ann is very often succinct in her posts, and a bit more so now that she is working full time. I tend not to be succinct, but then I have a very different writing style. Also, my writing style is very different from my conversation style, partly because I feel that it is very difficult to express oneself by mere text, since the reader cannot see facial expressions or other gestures, which are very important clues when speaking to someone in person. I further think that in a forum like this, there can be generational differences that can cause misunderstanding in communication.
Like Annie, I am somewhat out of the loop and am pretty clueless about any dramas that might be going on. Annie and I have been fortunate to meet in person, and that is always a great help in understanding someone. If you haven't met anyone here in person - be patient - it might happen sooner than you think!
Peppi, that was a very nice thing to say to Ann and I agree with you.
I seem to be the only one who has not gotten a warning. Darn it. I did get sent to the teacups by Spike, so my usual email address is not accepted here. I had to sneak back in with a different email address.
Can't we all just ignore what we don't like and move on? None of us is required to use this forum and to the best of my knowledge it is not owned by any off us. It is intended to be a community of people with a common interest of cooking.
Tamara is the only person I know of, so that is the person I asked for a temp. banning for Linda. Didn't know of any Rosa. She doesn't seem to be the "face" of GW. Tamara is. Have never received a warning from GW even from Spike and I didn't care for him.
Don't know why Ann was accused of being snarky. Didn't see any of that in her post. NancyLouise
NancyLouise, I understood that was what you meant. I did the same thing and I'm sure we were not the only ones that asked Tamara to consider "time served" and reinstate Linda.
I can see where NancyLouisa's post could be confusing. I'm sure, that the person(s) who did complain about Linda, are probably busy patting each other on the back and doing a little happy dance but they aren't likely to confess.
Gee, some people seem determined to be offended - I too was confused that Ann T's question was interpreted as "rude". I feel a lot of offence taken on the internet and in real life is often down to interpretation. Some days when DD is in a mood I can say, "Wow, you look nice" and she will come back with "So, don't you think I look nice other times?" and so an innocent remark is turned into something that couldn't be farther from the reality, all because of misinterpretation. I wouldn't like to see the Cooking Forum split into "levels of expertise", because my experience in other fields has shown that if you hang out with people who really know what they're doing, you'll get up to their speed much quicker than if you hang out with people who are at the same level as you are. In that case there is no incentive to improve. And I use acromyms instead of names, because I haven't asked the people concerned if they want their names spread all over the internet, and it's too much hassle to make up names and remember who they are :-)
What I find sad is the division this overall issue highlights. I am ambiguous about Linda, having seen it all over the past 13 years and can see both sides of the issue. One thing that does stand out to me is that whatever any of us think, there are thousands of lurkers out there who read everyday, never post, but probably do contact the administrator. We've all been on boards elsewhere that list statistics: 11 posts, three thousand views, etc! I wasn't aware of the background email drama and never reported Linda but I agree with the other posters here who saw it all also. She did, btw, register under a new name-but still identifiable- and it was quickly pulled.
"Cornfedup-in-Iowa" was LindaC? I thought so!!! Wow, good, no, GREAT work IP police! (Heavy sarcasm here and don't bother searching--I made the name up.)
A quick GW search showed almost 6000 posts by LindaC. Sure, she could be sharp tongued at times, but more often than not, she was first in line with a helpful answer. We will lose far more than any gains made through the banning of her.
Linda, I hope your ban (what a repugnant word in this use, btw), is temporary. If that turns out not to be the case, I hope you will email posters with your suggestions to their questions. Or you can channel them through me. Who knows, there might just be an Aunt Linda in my family tree. I certainly wouldn't be the first to quote outside sources.
Jo
This post was edited by jojoco on Thu, Jan 17, 13 at 7:42
She had the word LindaC in the screen name so I am just assuming it was her. I did not look up the ip address, however, I have found out, that it was not her at all. Sorry!
This post was edited by Bumblebeez on Thu, Jan 17, 13 at 9:22
I really had no intention of posting on this thread, but I feel compelled to comment on two posts.
Strawberry, I am very sorry that you suffered bullying in your life. I hope you have put that in the past and not allow that to diminish your opportunities from now on. Instead of standing up to the bullies, there is another option to deal with them. Sometime ago I had a discussion here with Jimster, who is a true gentleman, very knowledgeable and has a great sense of humor. Jim has a daughter who practices Tai Chi martial arts. We discussed that the concept of Tai Chi is not to confront head to head with the bully, who is probably stronger than you, but to utilize the bully's own power, redirect it and making it convenient for the bully to self-destruct. Yes, it happens. Bullies invariably self-destruct.
Cathy, you and I have a date. I loathe elitism and pretentious snobbery. Pray for me to win the Lotto. If I win, we will go around the world to exclusive eating establishments, order the best dry-aged steaks with lots of ketchup, and the most expensive bottle from the wine list with ice cubes. But we need to go with a lawyer just in case they try to kick us out. LOL!
Now that I am on this thread it would be suspicious for me not to comment on the original post, since I am the luckiest one to have had the most "fun" with LindaC, although not by my choice.
I cannot understand the logic that if a member is prolific and has seniority, it would then be acceptable for him/her to HABITUALLY violate the rules of the Forum.
I cannot understand why we are arguing whether there is or isn't a gang/clique. If you waddle like a duck, quack like a duck, than you are a duck. That is not to say that I have a problem with members exchanging intimate family and pet information. I find that engaging and interesting because they all at some point cooking related. I encourage that aspect to take place on this forum.
I cannot understand why a member is a low-life tattle-teller if he/she feels rules of the forum has been violated and informs the management. The forum is not policed 24 hours, all members have the responsibility to see to it that the character of the forum will not deteriorate by rule breakers. Banning a member is not done by the informer, it is by the management after careful reviewing of facts. The rule breaker is the one to bear all consequences.
Finally to answer some possible questions: No, I have nothing to do with LindaC's departure. I have no reason to. She has not given me any grief all along. No, I have no objection to LindaC's returning and participating as a responsible member of the forum. I believe she will be responsible.
Let's all focus on sharing old and new food ideas, let enjoy all the "old timers" and welcome all the new comers recently showed up.
dcarch
This post was edited by dcarch on Thu, Jan 17, 13 at 11:10
Dcarch, sharing old and new food ideas, appreciating what regulars have to offer and welcoming all new comers is something that has always been done here on the Cooking Forum. I don't see that changing.
And whether you liked or didn't like Linda, she will be missed by many here on the Cooking Forum.
dcarch, I've often complimented you on "taking the high road". You're better than I am at it, I distinctly remember a thread where I finally told LindaC "you're right, everyone should do it YOUR way" and left and didn't go back.
My problem is that I have a fantasy that we are all adults and should be able to just leave when on-line posters offend us. IT's not like they live next door, we can just close a thread. I've been the target of bullies much of my life. First I was the smallest in my class, then I was Native American. Then I was a farmer's kid in high school with the children of professors and doctors, kids who got Corvettes when they turned 16. Sometimes we had to eat whatever someone could shoot. I had to get a job to pay for my old clunker to get me to my job. I didn't go to college until I was an adult. Even after I was an adult, I got bullied by our clientele, being in law enforcement. Or at least the criminals tried, and I got lots of threats, some credible. There has always been some reason for someone to think they should push me around or belittle me or tell me how insignificant I am. Somehow, though, I managed to give up being hall monitor and handle my own conflicts. What bothers me is that I feel I was used as a pawn here, a catalyst to accomplish something that I was unaware was happening. Maybe not, maybe I'm just being sensitive but it feels like a completely different type of bullying, using someone else without their knowledge to accomplish something.
Much like I did with Lou, who finally offended me to the point I couldn't deal with him, I can just ignore someone when I'm tired of butting heads with them.
However, none of this matters. The forum has changed and I hate the "us" and "them" mentality and the conflicts it has caused. I dislike the social media intrusion. I try to remember what's important to me, like birthdays, who is sick, who has children, who has elderly pets. I spend as much time on conversations some days as I do discussing food because I've made good friends. I never remember the computer abbreviations, so I ignore them. If I'm relegated to an "organic" or "local food" or "homegrown" corner, I'll stop posting. (shrug) Then I'll have more time!
Since this thread has nearly reached the maximum 150 posts, it'll all end soon, unless someone starts another. The end result will be that we have all vented, but accomplished nothing. Other posters will take the place of Lou and LindaC and whoever else. It's the nature of the beast.
wizardnm
ann_t
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