Tom: If adelgids are not accidentally transported to your area, the "natural" movement of the infestation should leave you untouched for many years. By then, if some control method using these beetles works out, people will know what to do by then to protect the hemlocks. But, and here is a depressing story, the nectria/scale disease was no where near my Western MD timberland, and was not expected to get there for a long, long time. Then, some jerk, decided that he would bring a truckload of firewood down from his place in Maine to Kempton, MD, which is about 4 miles south of my land. Of course, the logs he brought were from dying beech trees--all infested with the disease. So I not only will lose my hemlocks, but also my beech trees. Carrying firewood from Maine to the mts of western MD is as wierd and senseless as it gets, even forgetting about the fact that he should have known better, seeing the beech trees die there. Lets hope no one decides to take any hemlock trees from some infested area up to Wisconsin! Oh, as for the beetles--they are trying several kinds--I think at least three, but I have not kept up on the details of each kind. One issue of concern is that one or more of the beetles they are trying feed exclusively on the adelgid, making it difficult to get a population built up BEFORE the infestation starts, and after the infestation starts, it is difficult to get the beetle population to catch up with the numbers needed to make an impact. There are all kinds of complications facing these efforts. --Spruce

"Roughly speaking, how much of the flora is unable to grow on the West Coast?" Seems like it's usually more like what won't grow here? (Often with bad consequences, in the case of invasives.) For instance, my mother is endlessly frustrated by my interest in native plants (she is in New Mexico), as she says "You can grow ANYTHING there and you plant plain old Apricot Mallow???!" lol. Of course, I still have a lemon tree, orange tree, palm tree, tea tree, orchid tree, hibiscus, hydrangea, avocado etc....Full disclosure: I am a newbie and just got some actual dirt a year ago - but it has been amazing to learn about this amazing climate - which is Mediterranean btw. Often I wish there was a California version of every forum here - particularly veggies, since our planting times are totally different. Some books I like: Mediterranean Kitchen Garden: Growing Organic Fruit and Vegetables in a Hot, Dry Climate by Mariano Bueno, Pat Welsh's Southern California Gardening, and California Native Plants for the Garden by Carol Bornstein et al. The Sunset Bible is also on my shelf. The micro-climate is crucial - I am in East LA and have a totally different zone than you will in Santa Monica. One thing that I'll add to look into for native plants is the Theodore Payne Foundation which is local - it's really a neat non-profit nursery and educational resource.

I just read through this long topic and in a couple of places Norway spruce was mentioned. A study was done at SUNY Syracuse a few years ago to determine the growth curves for Norway spruce in unthinned stands in New York State. They analyzed a large number of stands on a variety of soils (somewhere between 50 and 100 if I remember right). They "destructively sampled" a large number of the tallest trees and plotted their growth, taking into account the number of times the trees had been weeviled and/or had other kinds of injuries. Anyway, to reduce a long and thorough study to the bare essentials, on the best sites trees that were 4.5 feet tall at a starting point were about 115 feet tall after 50 more years. The starting point of 4.5 feet was selected because the time it takes to get to that height was affected by many unpredictable factors such as weed competition, etc. that it couldn't reasonably be factored in. I have done my own measurements on a small number of stands in MD and WV and have found some that exceed those in NY by a small margin, the best being a little over 120 feet in 50 years after the 4.5 foot height was achieved. It is my general impression that if the best strains were grown on the best soils, the growth would be somewhat better than 120 feet. Almost all the spruce stands I have found have been growing on class three forest soils, whereas class 2 soils are fairly common in this region. To explain just a bit, on a class 3 forest soil red oak will grow to 65 or 75 feet in fifty years, on a class two soil, 75 to 85 feet. So the importance of soil quality is rather great in determining the potential growth of trees. Class 1 soils are fairly rare in this region and tend to be bottomland soils suited to a limited number of species. The one thing that really struck me about these growth curves determined by the folks at SUNY Syracuse is that unlike the growth curves of virtually all other species that I have seen growing in the Eastern U.S., these growth curves were not really "curves" at all, but rather straight lines that as they left the graph at the 50 year mark were showing an undiminished rate of growth. Other growth curves show a "curve" that shows decelerating growth at that point. But, based on my own observations, the growth rate of Norway spruce does start to diminish fairly soon after the 50 year mark. I haven't seen the growth curves for redwoods and other western species, but I would assume that they use a 100 year time frame and must be something really impressive. My guess is that the best Norway spruce growing on the best soils in forest stands in the Allegheny region would eventually get somewhere close to 200 feet, about the same as in the best stands in Europe. The oldest spruce I have seen here are somewhere near 150 feet now and are growing, in one case, 6 to 10 inches per year at 100 years old (Rothkugel), and in another 12 to 20 inches per year at 73 years old (Glady), but both of these are on class 3 soils. --Spruce

Nancy, thanks so much for posting for me. When I phoned we were still in shock and I'm sure I wasn't very coherent. It was a rough couple days. Linda, the antique furniture is probably a total loss. If it was on the floor - it's water damaged. I've got a call into our antique broker but haven't yet been able to reach him to discuss possible repairs (?). It's possible he's also flooded. Still, once it's been flooded - never the same and value will be severely reduced, as you know. So, we'll most likely let the insurance deal with them on our claim. :( We were bemoaning the loss of the antique pieces last night before we fell asleep. Every one had a story that meant a lot to us. Truthfully though, we have so much to worry about right now that we haven't focused on their loss - yet. The structure itself held well so we had no interior wind damage to rattle things around. That means the mulberry is okay as are all of the 18th century wine glasses and decanters. We lost a considerable number of reference books though and you know how hard those are to come by. I also lost my Yamaha Clavinova. :( Things like Dad's accordion we took with us as well as all his sheet music. I lost some genealogy. That's heartbreaking. I'm still working on the inventory list. That goodness we kept meticulous records, receipts, and have a thorough professional appraisal as an addendum to our policy. It cost a bit more in premiums but not nearly as much as the losses. Lpink, have you considered coming through CT to New London and taking the ferry over to LI, going to get your aunt/uncle, and bringing them back the same way? We have ample gas available in CT and there's been virtually no looting concerns. It's a mess here but we are up and running again and safe. The ferry is running again. And thanks so much for you thoughts. Every one means so much now. Bumblebeez - thanks so much. Please keep those best wishes coming. It's going to be a long haul, months not weeks. Chase, on behalf of all Sandy's victims thank you for your Red Cross donation. The Red Cross is doing so much for so many across the region. They are always first on the scene and last to leave. Again, thank you. FEMA seems, so far, to be on top of things. It only took 20 minutes to fill out forms, register, get assigned a representative, etc. and we've received several phone calls from FEMA already and it's only been a week today Sandy paid us a visit. We have an appointment Friday at FEMA's temporary office here in Stonington. /tricia