"I asked that question of Joe Halinar about the H. fulva from Korea. He told me that he checked the pollen under a microscope, and that it had Diploid pollen. I also asked him who discovered that it was fertile x Tet pollen, and the answer was "I did". Last summer I pollinated one clump of it with diploid pollen, I got an average of 18 seeds per pod, the other clump was pollinated with Tet pollen and I get an average of 5 seeds per pod. What really surprised me was the difference in size. The Diploid pods got bigger, contained more seeds, but they were smaller that the seeds from the Tet crossings" There are a few scientific grey areas with checking pollen to determine if it is diploid or tetraploid in size. If I have a diploid cultivar and use colchicine (or other chemicals) to create a tetraploid version of it I can then compare the pollen size of the diploid with the pollen size of the tetraploid. The tetraploid will have pollen that on average is 30-40% larger in physical dimensions (length, width) or about double the volume. However, if I take a random sample of diploid cultivars and a random sample of tetraploid cultivars and measure their pollen and then graph the results I will find that the diploid and tetraploid pollen sizes overlap. The largest diploid pollen is larger than the smallest tetraploid pollen. Nor is there a simple relationship (or a known relationship) between plant or flower size and pollen size for daylilies. So pollen that looks like it is diploid size might actually be tetraploid but smaller than is typical for tetraploids. Checking pollen of a plant that was collected is not a good method for determining ploidy. Counting its chromosomes is the best method with the lowest chance of producing an uncertain answer. Triploid pollen size is usually variable but fits in between diploid and tetraploid pollen sizes and so any plant with variable pollen sizes may be a triploid. There are known fertile triploid daylilies. The only way to know for certain whether any daylily is diploid, triploid or tetraploid is to check and count the chromosomes in its cells. Seed and pod size are inter-related (as are seed numbers and fruit size and shape in many plants). The more seeds in a pod the larger the pod will be on average. The total amount of resources a plant can put into a pod is typically limited by its biology (at some value - depending on where it is growing, how well it is grown, how large the plant is, how many pods are set, etc). So the larger each individual seed the smaller the number of seeds the pod can support. Plants will abort seeds if there are too many in a pod to support their proper development; they will also abort pods if there are too many. Tetraploid seeds have tetraploid (larger) cells and therefore are typically larger than diploid seeds (again the distributions will overlap for diploids and tetraploids with triploids in between). A pod with many diploid smaller seeds would be equivalent to a pod with fewer larger triploid seeds and perhaps even fewer and larger tetraploid seeds. Dr. Halinar first suggested that diploid x tetraploid crosses could produce tetraploid seedlings. However, many years before, a researcher had tested that idea and found it to be extremely rare. The researcher physically prevented insects from naturally pollinating the test flowers. It would be interesting to check the chromosomes of the Korean fulva (which may have been found in a botanical institute garden) and its seedlings with tetraploids and diploids.

Hello Maine Man: Thanks for the note and for the ideas on how to protect and propogate my eye popping Holly Hocks. Here is what I have done so far. It was to late to take cuttings by the time I got your note. I think we had our third deep frost the day I got your email. But what a great idea, I would never have thought of doing that. Normally Holly Hocks are considered self seeding perenials here. So while when we have our usual deep freezing winters the plants die off, but prior year seed always restarts. However, since we have been having such incredibly warm winters lately, I have noticed that a lot of plants seem to be surviving. So at your suggestion I heavily mulched my beauties. In addition, even though the seed looked pretty feeble, (compared to the strong dark brown coin shaped seed produced by the other plants), it is small and kind of fiberous looking and lacks that, magical coin shape Holly Hock seed normlly has. That is one of the things I love about Holly Hocks. My Mother used to tell me that when she was a girl she and her frind would collect seed from the yard and pretend that it was magical coins that they would exchange with each other to pay the fair for trips to far away places. So, my Mother would be happy to know that I harvested seed, dried it, and have set it away for spring. Next year as suggested, I will plant it on the other side of the yard, away from the existing beds and see what I get. Let's hope for the best and maybe with all the help I have gotten from friends on this site, we will have success in getting another crop next year...if I do...hmmm maybe Santa will have Holly Hock seed to give for Christmas in 2005. Thank you so much Maine Man. Aunti Hedda PS: My daughter reminded me this fall, that we did have a few very pale yellow doubles in the bed last year...I forgot about that. So maybe they were brought in by bees, and that could be what started the whole thing. Think so?

Yeah....I'm sold on Firefox too! I just installed 8.0 too, but I've been getting NO....Yes NO ads/scripts/pop-up/unders of ANY type from GW since I started with it last winter! ....and my Windows PC is a Gateway 1200 from 2001!! As the others have stated, install Ad-block Plus, and a couple other filter-programs and you'll be flying ad-free here! I'm not sure if I literally have the "Script"-related add-in, but I've never had one of those errors on this site. Faron

Actually, I didn't realize the previous was maxed out until I saw your post...thanks for letting me know! CelticMoon...if you check the "Read Me" thread you'll notice that I added the gel stain instructions. On an off we have receive quite a few requests for it, so I thought I'd add it. There's light at the end of the tunnel, one of our GWers asked about setting up a FAQ and iVillage said to check back with them in March...so keep your fingers crossed! (I wonder why no one ever responds to my questions/comments? I've asked at least 2x before and had other questions as well...but I don't think I've ever received a reply...the only time I heard from them was when I got my hands slapped for starting an off-topic post on Discussions!)