Thanks leanne for starting this forum, I am ready to learn also. I have done a search for seventh generation products in my area, but the closest seems to be 50 miles away from me. So listening to ree and others suggesting other things will be much appreciated. Until I found this web sight, I had no idea one could use other things for cleaning than harsh, toxic cleaners. I can't tell you the number of times I have almost passed out and burned my sinuses from the fumes of some products, especially bleach. My sister uses bleach like it was holy water, it just makes me sick. I do use bleach, but very sparingly. I can't wait to find out what else is do-able in place of bleach. The vinegar for FS amazes me. Do your clothes really come out soft and not smelling like vinegar? This should be very interesting.

BW, I didn't think that my clothes were as soft as they are when I use commercial liquid FS, but they definitely weren't stiff or rough like they are when I don't use anything. And I really didn't notice a smell at all. But my husband will be my biggest tester because he can smell vinegar a mile away.

I've never used more natural cleaners either. And I really don't know how, but I do want to learn. I too nearly pass out everytime I clean the bathroom and I hate to do it because of the smells of the chemicals and then my bathroom smells like those cleaners for what seems like an eternity to me. My best friend sounds like your sister...you can smell the bleach from the sidewalk!!! I don't know how she does it.

I have two cats, who are our 'babies', and I'm funny about what I use around them, so I can't wait to learn how to clean and not "offend" our senses with the chemicals.

Hi Leanne and talk2bw!!
here you are! I was looking in the laundry forum for you!
ok..get a cup of coffee, this is long..lol

I switched to all natural "everything" years ago.. it was just a few months now I went natural with laundry.( and LOVE IT)

A few years back, we learned my son had mild asthma and allergies. I learned that all these cleaners we use everyday are very harmful not only to our enviroment, but to us. I too was a bleach freak..I probably bought every cleaning product on the shelf and thought my house was CLEAN.. I was so wrong. All the store bought products will leave residue on everything..to me..thats not clean. It's the same with our laundry..detergents build up and leave chemical residue in our clothes. (which our skin absorbs as well) the reason we all needed FS is to soften the chemicals in our clothes, FS is more chemicals!!! and not good for us at all. When you use natural detergents, all the chemical residues are removed, ( it will take a few washes to get all the residues out) that alone makes our clothes 100% softer. I no longer use FS or dryer sheets and I never have wrinkles or stiff clothes! There are two laundry products that are wonderful (I just started using them, as 7th generation need a laundry boost to make it work well) and I used it because it was the only true natural detergent I could find locally.

one is Charlies Soap.. It's a laundry powder..you can buy a 3lb bag and it will do 80 loads. It is scent free and your clothes smell CLEAN , not like perfume cover ups.. the only thing that I found was, it wasn't great on stains..but there are people who had great sucess with stain removal .. they also make an all purpose cleaner that is concentrated so it will last a long time. They say to use the all purpose cleaner full strength right on the stain..probably can rub it in with a little detergent and I am sure this is what people do to remove it. I will have to try this the next time.....

the second I discovered was Shaklee products..They have some line of natural everything!! I went crazy and bought a lot of products from them and I am very happy! They have a laundry detergent, it is a liquid. Your clothes again smell CLEAN, I bought the unscented, but they do make a mild scent for those who want that. With that, they have a product called Nature Bright. This is a natural laundry boost and a whitener..NO CHEMS!!!! my daughter got chocolate ice cream on a white abercrombie shirt..I rubbed the detergent with some nature bright on the chocolate..it started taking it out right away..then I put it in the wash, and it was gone completely!!!!! I was amazed. Leanne, they make a natural fabric softener!!!!! This may be great to add because your water is hard. The only thing is, it is not as cost efficent as charlies. You only need 1 ounce per load and it is 12.00 a bottle which does 32 loads.. I guess to be a little more cost effective you can use the nature bright and their fabric softener with charlies powder.. I use both detergents..I love the Shaklee, but when you have a lot of laundry everyday, it can be costly...

ok..we got the laundry thing down pat..lol!!! on to Shaklee's cleaners..THIS IS A MUST!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about cost efficient and effective!!!!!! I bought one bottle of all purpose cleaner, called Basic H2. It is extremely concentrated. One 16oz bottle will make 48 gallons. They do have different recipes ... for one..just 2 drops of Basic H2 to 16oz's of water makes a window cleaner..1/4 of teaspoon will make 16oz's of all purpose cleaner and I think it's a teaspoon will make a 16oz degreaser. They have another product called Basic G..this is a sanitizer that is sold in a quart..( great for sanitizing bathrooms/ kitchen surfaces etc) I think this makes 64 gallons...Shaklee sells their own spay bottles to make these mixtures, They are really pretty bottles and are labeled ..one is windows & mirrors, all purpose, and degreaser. They also have a scouring paste for tough jobs (I guess like a soft scrub) all these are totally all natural organic and they really work!! Your house will be CLEAN no chemical residues anywhere.. So this is how I do all my cleaning..along with my steam of course..OH! I did try the Shaklee BasicH2 on my wood floors with the steam mop..I sprayed the all purpose mixture on the floor and then steamed..OMG! what shine!!! and the pad was dirtier than normal (big yuck) but boy they were clean!!! ok..I hope this will help you. here are two web sites to read about each product line. www.charliesoap.com and www.shaklee.com. If you want to order Shaklee..there is a clickable link in the laundry forum..look for the post 'Shaklee products" this is the woman who I ordered mine from..she is very nice and will explain the product line to you.. (you can also join as a 'member' and get 15% off all their products )

ok ladies...lets go green! lol
Ree

reeree
Do you now if any of the natural detergents for laundry are made for the front loader machines? As one is to use the HD detergents. I am going to check the shaklee website. Kit

Kit
They are wonderful on Front loaders! They say it right on the products..I have a front loader and the clothes are clean, clean, clean! Let me know what you think! Ree

Ree, thanks much for all the info. (Off topic, but I found some great lace curtains today at Boscov's for $14.99 a pair! I put them up and they look great!)

Leean-rn, I started using vinegar in the rinse water to keep towels from getting sour in the summer. It works great and no vinegar smell. I was using about a 1/2 cup at the time.

Victorian227..wow!! good for you! great price..take some pictures when you can! I am sure they look great in your beautiful home!! Just in time for the tour!! Ree

Ree- I use Clorox Clean Up on my white porcelan kitchen sink. It gets stained badly from tea and coffee. I have scrubbed with comet and bar keepers friend and it seems that the Clorox is the only thing that takes out the stains. Will the Shaklee work on this type of stains? I hate using the Clorox, but it works. BW

talk2bw
I did buy the scouring paste. "Scour Off" It works great in my white sink..I didn't have set in stains, but of course it gets dirty and it really cleaned it well..on their web page they say it removes stains other cleaners can't. The recommend it for ovens, burnt on foods along with removing rust and great on grout..I just got my products a few days ago..so I have been trying them all out.. I made all my different cleaners, tried it on everything..lol! I didn't try the paste on "heavy duty" things yet, but I will.. maybe give it a try..I think it was 8.00.. not too bad, and if it does what it claims to do, you won't have to use the clorox any more.. ( they give you your money back if you are not happy with it, so I felt it was worth trying with nothing to lose) I use to use soft scrub..went through bottles of that in no time.. when I went to natural cleaners, before I got my scouring paste, I was using bon ami, I liked it, but it didn't clean as good as soft scrub..and you really had to scrub hard..I found the paste worked much better with much less scrubbing and my sink was really clean and shiny.. ok...I think I need a life..lol!! Ree

I went to Target today and found Seventh Generation Natural All Purpose Cleaner and bought it to try out. They also had the Seventh Generation glass and window cleaner. That was all they had in Seventh Generation. I asked a sales person if they could get their other products, especially the laundry products. He told me that Seventh Generation isn't a big enough company to supply all the states with all their products, but to keep checking, the product could still come in.

Ree, have you used the SG All Purpose Cleaner, and what do you use it on? It says on the bottle that you can use it for stains on the carpet. I am really hoping that it will work well on that, besides other things. Thanks for the information on the Scour Off, is that a Shaklee product?

Hi talk2bw
You use the all purpose cleaner on just about anything you would use any all purpose cleaner on..counter tops, sinks, tops of tv's etc. I never tried it on carpet..so I honestly can't say...I use my steamer on glass and mirrors, so I never bought SG glass cleaner. If you really like their products they have a web site with coupons you can down load. I was using their products because it was the only true natural cleaner I could find locally and scent free..when I started reading this forum, I learned of different products and I had to try them..so now I switched. I also use my hand held steamer a lot, but it's good to have something to grab and use also. With their detergent, (SG) I had to add borax or super washing soda.. I paid in super markets 11.50 for 100 oz and it does 33 loads..it goes fast and becomes expensive. Target sold it for 7.49.. I did buy the Shaklee detergent, I think it is a great product.. but this is also too expensive.. 32 loads for I think 14.00-15.00..(don't remember exactly..will have to take a look)

If you buy a bag of Charlies soap , first time buyers get a discount, and it's always free shipping..I paid 11.00 for a 3lb bag and it does 80 loads. It works great, and your clothes are clean and smell clean. When you have a stain, you do need to pre treat. There is a thread on the laundry room forum about it, thats where I first heard about it and bought a bag. for my all purpose cleaners, I switched to Shaklee. It's very cost efficient. as I wrote in an earlier post, one bottle will last months (super concentrated) and it's around 12.00..when I was buying SG, I paid 4.50 a bottle. I do like shaklee Nature Bright laundry boost..( works great with Charlies Soap, as I just learned) this too works for a million different things..( including carpet stains) and yes,,the scouring paste is shaklee. Go on the laundry forum..look at Charlies soap posts, and then shaklee products posts. On Shaklee, there is a click able link..I called and talked to the rep and she helped me out with the products and told me how they work etc..I never bought them before, so I didn't want to just order it from the web site. You will save a lot of money using Shaklee over SG and it is a very good product.. I bought three spay bottles from them and I made three different cleaners..the bottles are pretty and I barely put a dent in that one bottle of basic H2 to make them. everyone has to experiment with different products to see what they like and what works for them.. I am always up for trying different things, and what really works for me (and believe me..I tried so many different products looking for the "right" stuff) I don't live my life around cleaning, but I do want a clean home, with out using chemicals, and by being on here and meeting a great bunch of ladies I think it's a great way to learn and share.. I hope you find this of some help..you will find what works for you and then you will stick with it (until something new and better comes out..lol) Ree

Thanks Ree for all your information. It is nice to have someone who knows the products and can give others that are learning all the information they can. I will be checking out the things that you have mentioned. I did use the SG All Purpose on a few spots on my carpet this morning. It worked on some of the spots, but not all of them. It also did not work on the tea stains in the sink. But for cleaning the things you mentioned, I am sure I will like that. I mentioned earlier that I have a Scunci Steamer that I have never even used (duh?). Reading what you have had to say about it has encouraged me to get it out of the box and get some use of it. Thanks again for all your info. BW

BW, you are welcome! use the steam cleaner..it is great and you will enjoy using it! keep me posted if you order Charlies soap or any of the Shaklee products..I would love to hear how you like them. you should order the Nature Bright, not only great in your laundry, really good on stains..someone wrote some where they used it on an old wine stain on a light colored carpet and it removed it completely..I never tried it my self on stains like that, but it did get chocolate out of my daughters white shirt. I love it on my whites, and great on soiled clothes mixed with Charlies soap. At first I thought it was the shaklee detergent that was really good..but it was the nature bright..and the cost of the Shaklee, to me isn't worth that kind of money, I am sticking with Charlies, I like it 100x's better than the SG detergent. With SG, I never tried to get stains out of anything..so I coundn't honestly give an answer. As much as I love my steamer, I do like to use other products..as I do get bored using the same thing for all these years..so when I hear about other products, I don't hesitate to try them.. I learned a lot on here my self...lots of good people!
keep me posted!
Ree

Hi! I am new here. I have been looking for something to take out stains, today, specifically MUD! My daughter went on a trip and her clothes are SATURATED with pure mud! You cannot tell what color the clothes were. Most were bought brand new for the trip, so I hate the thought of throwing them away!
I was looking up Borax when I came across this site. Any suggestions on what would remove the mud? Is Borax a good product? I've never used it.
Thanks!

Ang

Mud isn't that difficult to remove. I would suggest some oxiclean and borax. Borax is not a stain remover per se. It normally is used as an additive to your normal detergent. But it can be used as a cleaner. Borax is also good for removing odors.

We ride ATVs and get quite muddy. I just run a soak cycle with an oxygen bleach/cleaner and then wash with detergent and more oxygen cleaner. I haven't had any problems getting the mud out this way.

I plan to use a bottle or two of peroxide in the wash also. Oxiclean is actually peroxide (go figure lol), I got a really good email on it I'll have to share. I was going to use the Borax in addition to detergent, but wondered if anyone had any suggestions. She actually rolled in a muddy pond! It literally looks like the clothes were dipped in straight mud! I'm hoping it all comes out! I dont think I've ever washed clothing with pure mud on them, entire thing covered.
I'll keep you guys posted. I'll be washing them later today since its 3am here. lol

I use dryer balls instead of fabric softener now. No chemicals whatsoever and my towels come out soft. I used to not use fabric softener when washing towels due to the fact I read the towels wouldn't be as absorbent then, but then my towels would become kind of scratchy feeling, not soft. Dryer balls are available at Bed, Bath & Beyond and they really work nicely. Use a coupon! I did.
Robin

Kidzmeanklutter--

My kids are usually covered from head to toe with mud when we go riding... the more mud the happier they are. Oxygen bleach works wonders.

I know that hydrogen peroxide is the same thing as the oxygen bleaches... it just isn't as 'stable.' It loses its effectiveness much quicker--plus if you use hydrogen peroxide off the shelf, much of the product is water plus chemicals to help lengthen shelf life.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some info on oxygen bleach

Leanne..what happened to you?? hope my long post didn't scare you..lol
Ree

I received a coupon in my email for Purex Natural Elements UltraConcentrate. Says it gets out tough stains and cost less than leading laundry detergents. It is made from 100% naturally derived cleaning ingredients and natural fragrance extracts. All packaging is recylable, and product is biodegradable, hypoallergenic and free of dyes. Sounds good? Has anyone used it? And is it the same NATURAL products as Charlies or Shaklee? Or is it just another laundry detergent?

DRYER BALLS - come in a couple styles. The most common ones are the (As Seen On TV) round Dryer Max Dryer Balls. They are light blue, about the size of a tennis ball and look more like a doggie chew toy (covered with rubber spikes on a rubber ball) than something used in the dryer. An eliptical-shaped one is called Nellie's Dryerballs (more expensive, but I don't think they are any better - had one fall apart soon after using them). Google either of those names and you'll find more information on them.

I LOVE them and have used them for years, even though I nearly always line-dry clothes (now that I have both an indoor and outdoor line). Dryer balls work best for fluffing and shortening drying time, but not necessarily for reducing static (even though that's one of their claims). When I first started using them, they DID reduce drying time by 25-50%.

I'm trying to avoid the toxic chemicals found in most laundry products. It's gotten to the point where I can't stand to be outside when neighbors are running their dryer - the perfume/toxins from their softeners really bother me.

I'm a new convert to CHARLIE'S SOAP (used homemade products for years), and purchased the 1,280 load bucket after using two 80 load packages to make sure I really liked it. This brings the per load amount to almost the same as homemade soap.

I also use VINEGAR in the rinse. The smell of vinegar fades once it's dry. Sam's Club sells two 1-gallon plastic bottles in a box, and it's the best price I've found for vinegar.

I make a homemade liquid detergent/all-purpose cleaner, and used it for a long time before trying Charlie's. Charlie's Soap leaves clothes much softer - even when hung on a line to dry. You'll find the recipe for the liquid detergent at the link below, entitled "Liquid Natural Detergent" and it uses liquid Castile Soap, salt, BAKING soda (for those of you who have a hard time finding WASHING soda), vinegar, and Grapefruit Seed Extract (kills bacteria). I like to make it with different scents from Castile Soap, or add some favorite fregrence oils.

HYDROGEN PEROXIDE - add 1/2 c. to the RINSE to whiten clothes.

I've also use both liquid and dry "homemade" laundry detergent. This was great when I found ZOTE soap for 70 cents at the Dollar General Store this spring. Fels Naptha is much more expensive, and ZOTE has a nice citronella small - much better than Fels Naptha smell.

DRY Homemade Laundry Detergent
2 bars Fels-Naptha Soap - grated (or 1 bar ZOTE)
1 c. WASHING Soda
1 c. Borax
Mix and use 2-3 T. per load.
You can also add a "booster" - 1/2 c. Cascade Dishwasher Det. (for the enzyme action).

When switching to more "natural" types of laundry products, you'll need to be careful and pre-treat really dirty items, which occasionally means pre-soaking some items.

BORAX - is a pretty good laundry booster and helps remove stains and odors. It works by conditioning the water and controlling alkalinity. Not that anyone uses them anymore, but borax is a great soak for baby diapers, but works great on stained or urine soaked clothing, sheets, blankets, etc.. For a soaking solution, mix 1/2 c. borax with 2-4 gallons of hot water.

Borax is also an inexpensive, and effective, floor and surface cleaner. Mix 1/3 c. borax with 1 t. dishwashing detergent and 1 gallon of warm water in a large bucket.

Borax Scouring Powder: 1/4 c. borax and 1/4 c. baking soda

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Natural Cleaning Recipes

I recently found ECOS laundry detergent, by Earth Friendly Products, at my local Costco. It's available online but Costco is a lot cheaper. It's all natural and has a built in soy fabric softener. It's absolutely great and the only time I use a dryer sheet is when I have mostly synthetic (like polyester) fabrics in a load.
If you are only using the dryer balls to fluff up your clothes, not to prevent static, try using a few clean tennis balls. That's what I use and they are great at fluffing up the clothes and a lot cheaper. I also dry everything, even towels, on low. It gives them more time to tumble.

I've heard of using tennis balls however, the dryer balls work better for me as I'm allergic to latex and putting something that contains rubber, in the heat of the dryer, gives off a rubber scent and I don't handle rubber containing products.
Robin

My husband travels to France alot on business,and lucky me gets to go with him. I noticed everywhere we went that the towels smelled clean & fresh and were very absorbent. The bed linens also clean crisp and fresh. I finally got up enough courage to ask one of the hotel maids what their secret was,and she told me-vinegar in the rinse cycle!!!! I have used it ever sense. No more FS or dryer sheets for me.

pattypj
wow. .that is something! I use vinegar in my rinse also..I also use Charlies Soap for my detergent. .I LOVE it.. clothes are clean and smell out door fresh. ( I use the powder) thanks for sharing that.. it was interesting to hear they use it in France! Ree
Ps. .you are very lucky!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Charlies soap

talk2bw ..Hi
I totally missed your post on here...(sorry) I never tried Purex Natural Elements before..but I will tell you, I LOVE Charlies soap. Shaklee is also good..but it doesn't go very far for your money, (too expensive) actually..it is much more expensive than Charlies and I happen to like charlies much better.. (charlies..a 3 lb bag..does 80 loads)
hope you see this!
Ree

Here is a link that might be useful: charlies soap

Ree-read your post, thanks for replying. I went to Charlies link and checked it out. I was amazed there were so many uses for Charlies Soap. I think I will definetly try it when I get low on the laundry soaps I have now. One lady mentioned using Charlies in her dishwasher along with vinegar in the rinse despenser and said it works great. Have you tried this too? Does the package of Charlies Soap list the ways that the soap can be used? I am also wondering: all of the microfiber cloths say not to use fabric softener, my husband also has some slacks with stain repellant, and they say not to use fabric softener...if I use vinegar in the rinse cycle instead of fabric softener, would that be the same as using a fabric softener? I guess fabric softeners cause the microfiber cloths and slacks not to wear as they should. Also, do you use a particular kind of vinegar, or just plain white vinegar?

Talk2bw
I read about using Charlies in the dish washer also, but I have never tried it they do not list other cleaning tips on the laundry soap bagÂ( maybe more info. On their web site?) or call and ask a rep if they can send a list on other cleaning mixes for this product They do sell an all purpose cleaner that is very concentrated and I know that has multiple usesÂ.if you buy that as wellÂmake sure you have clean , never used before spray bottles to have on hand to dilute, I think they sell CharlieÂs bottles on their web site,, I have to take another peekÂneed to re order again. I like the all purpose cleaner also.. all in all.. I really think it is a good wholesome product. I honestly LOVE how the clothes are really clean and smell really clean. About vinegar Â....I do not think it will hurt micro fiber cloths or clothesÂit does not have the chemicals fabric softeners doÂI wash my micro fiber cloths all the time and have used vinegar and they are fine. I think regular fabric softeners takes away their absorbency , thatÂs why they tell you not to use it.
Charlies also improves baby clothes flame retardant properties, so I really doubt it will remove the stain repellant in your husbands slacks. As far as vinegar, I use white Heinz Sorry this got longÂhope this helps!! Ree

Ree-it was not too long for me, you answered all of my questions. Thank you so much. I love the information that you give on this forum, you enlighten everyone on natural cleaning products. BW

BW
awh..thanks! That was very sweet! I guess when I really believe in something, I don't shut up about it...lol!
let me know if you ever try it!
Ree

Hi, I hope everyone had a very nice Thanksgiving, I know I did.

I have a question about vinegar as a fabric softener. I started using 1/2 cup in the FS dispenser. I find the clothes very soft and they smell clean without a vinegar smell. But my washing machine has a very strong odor of vinegar. Is this normal or is there a way to get rid of that smell in the washing machine? My daughter and her family were here for Thanksgiving and my grandson had an accident in the bed and we needed to wash the sheets and his clothes. She sort of turned up her nose when I went to put some them in the washer, ha. I haven't told my husband I am using vinegar in the rinse, but I am afraid that if he smells the washing machine, he will start griping about how I am doing the wash. Any suggestions? I haven't bought Charlies soap yet, I am waiting to use up the rest of my detergent. But I am planning on giving it a try for sure. BW

Hi,

Here is what my washer says to do about removing odors,from page 8 of the user guide:

"To clean and freshen the washer interior:

1. Make a solution of one cup chlorine bleach and
two cups warm water. Be careful not to spill or
splash the bleach solution.
2. Wipe the lower portion of gray door seal with
bleach solution and soft cloth.
3. Fill the bleach dispenser with chlorine bleach.
4. Run the washer through a complete cycle using
hot water.
5. Repeat the wash cycle if necessary.
Hard water deposits may be removed, if needed using
a recommended cleaner labeled clothes washer safe."

talk2bw
Happy holidays to you! I am glad you like the vinegar.. hmmm..my machine doesn't smell like vinegar..I wonder why yours does ? Are you using enough detergent? are you leaving the door open after the wash is finished? I am baffled, haven't heard that before... maybe just run it empty and give it the smell test? geez, hope that works! Let me know
Ree

Ree
Yes, I do close the lid as soon as I finish all of my washing. I too was wondering if that might be the problem. Is 1/2 cup the recommended amount of vinegar to use and do you dilute it with water first or not? I am placing the vinegar in the softener dispenser, is that what I should be doing also? The main reason I close the lid when I finish is because my husband uses the washer as his dumping ground for all of the items in his pockets when he comes in from work. I will try leaving the lid open over night and see if that works. I am using the recommended amount of detergent. I did all of my wash today and the clothes smelled clean like they had been hung outdoors to dry. Let me know what you think about the amount of vinegar I am using. I will let you know if opening the lid overnight will do the trick. Thanks for all of your information.
BW

Hi talk2bw
notice any difference with the door open? Maybe use a little less vinegar ..I do put mine in the fabric softener dispenser also, I fill it to the line where you would normally put reg. softener. I have a front loader, so it takes less of everything, so it may not be the same as your fill cup... hope your problem will be solved! Let me know how you make out, my fingers are crossed! Ree

Ree,
Well, I ran an empty load with hot water and a little bleach last night, then I left the door open all night. I also took the FS dispenser out and washed it really good and let it soak in water in the sink all night. (My washer is a top loader with a FS dispenser that sits on top of the agitator). The washer seemed to smell clean. The FS dispenser smelled better but still had the vinegar smell. So I think that is my culprit. My dispenser holds about 3/4 cup of liquid. I usually put in the suggested amount of FS, then fill the rest with water. When I put in the vinegar, I used 1/2 cup and the rest with water. Next time I think I will use less vinegar, more water and see how that goes. I don't want to give up on this vinegar thing. Maybe after I order the Charlie's Soap, that also might make a difference. My washer and dryer are almost 8 1/2 years old now and still in good condition, so until they go kaput, they will do till then. By the way, how do you like the frontloader? And what kind do you have?

talk2bw ,
wow! I can't believe you can still smell the vinegar! Try a little less and see what happens...I can't wait for you to try Charlies soap, I really think you will love it! (and it will make a difference) actually, when you use natural soap, you really don't need a fabric softener! (or vinegar) Clothes come out of the dryer soft, just like you would of used FS.

I have the whirlpool duet washer and dryer..I never had a problem with them..have them four years now. The only thing with front loaders, you have to leave the door open a little because they are air tight, and it will cause a sour smell..but since I have been using all natural detergent, I never had the problem..I really love Charlies soap..the clothes smell so clean and fresh, even my kids tell me their clothes smell so good!

let me know how you do with less vinegar and when you get Charlies (smile)
Ree

Borax, like boric acid, is safe for household use and has relatively low levels of toxicity. Like similar products, borax should be store in a safe place away from children and animals. Readily available at the hardware or home improvement store, borax has a number of practical uses around the house.

thanks so much for this in depth discussion.I am brand new to not only this forum, but any forum so hope i can figure out the stuff.....anyway, i just got home from a forum of mds and alternative healing modalites where i learned that in the sizing of all fabrics, unless organic, are stain repellents. Anyone know how to remove these creepy residues that it turns out my bedding, clothing, etc etc fabric related that touches my body, contain??!!

As far as carpets go when they are cleaned they have to be retreated because it has been washed off. I wash everything before I wear them.

repeated washing eventually gets rid of the sizing and other treatments. Don't know how you would remove them "instantly."