Back to the transportation issue. My 25 year old daughter finally bought her new car. She compared all the Japanese compacts and selected a Honda Fit. Despite my urging she refused to look at any American car because "They are not reliable". Its going to take Detroit a long time to overcome this prejudice that is probably undeserved at this time. I, besides the Moped, am still driving my 1990 4 cylinder Dodge Caravan because it never breaks and gets 28 mpg as long as I baby it. Several Chrysler dealers are closing in our area and giving huge discounts, way below their costs. I thought maybe its finally time to upgrade so I callerd one of them to see what kind of a deal I could get. I asked for a 4 cylinder Caravan. The unbelievable answer I got is that they stopped making the 4 cylinder available in the Caravan years ago! They deserve to go under. Their smallest 6 cylinder is rated at 18mpg city and 22 mpg highway. I told them 'Thank you but no thank you, talk to you in a few years if you get up to speed with what people really want.' Nick

The Toyota and Honda are the only ones most people need to look at. Toyota offers 4WD models that double as a light-duty SUV. They also have some way-cool Limited luxury vans that could easily pass for a Lexus. Loaded with useful toys - power folding 3rd-row seats, rear-view camera, driver seat and mirror settings memory, remote power open-and-closing rear and side doors, navigation system, 12v and 120v outlets, HID/xenon headlamps, Bluetooth wireless phone connections with nav integration, roll-up sunshades for all the side windows, laser-guided cruise control, power fold-in mirrors with puddle, side marker, and backup lights, parking assist, loads more. The Honda Odyssey Touring has most of this except for the AWD availibility, and has a more powerful engine and some underfloor storage. The DaimlerChrysler vans (Dodge, Chrysler) have nifty 2nd-row seats that fold into recesses to fold flat into the floor; when the 2nd row seats are in place, a huge underfloor cargo hold is available. But the rest of the van is a generation behind the Toyota and Honda minivans, such as available safety equipment, ergonomics, and a missing gear in the transmission. General Motors are selling four nearly-identical minivans through different brands (Saturn Relay, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana, Buick Terraza). The four put together are being outsold by the Toyota alone though. Not hard to see why; this is an old 1997 design updated last year with a longer hood and a revised dashboard. The behind the 3rd row cargo space is tiny in these, because it lacks the deep storage well all the other manufacturers use now. So they actually had to build the floor *up* so the 3rd-row seatback could fold forward (not tumble back) and line up with the rearmost floor section. The whole thing is nearly a foot above the floor in the front half of the van, where the 2nd row seats begin. Likewise, the Ford Freestar and Mercury Monterey are revamps of the previous Ford Windstar, also at least Ford ponied up for a new floorpan with a proper fold-rearward-into-the-well 3rd-row seat. Price (after steep rebates and incentives) drive most sales of these. The Nissan Quest is worth a look for its stylish, comfortable interior, which offers some elegant color choices and a neat aircraft-style 5-skylight and overhead console package that looks like it was pulled from a Learjet. The dash is a bit funky for some tastes (glovebox where the speedometer usually is), the 3rd row must be raised or dropped in one piece, and its reliability has been iffy. The 2nd row seats fold almost flat into the floor Kia has a redesigned Sedona van that is low-priced, and unlike the previous one, is reasonably conpetitive with the Honda and Toyota. Rich people can now buy a Mercedes minivan, the R-Class which is the only one with an available V8 (6 cylinder is standard). AWD is optional, RWD standard. Rear side doors open like a sedan's rather than being sliders, but they are just as wide as sliding doors, making them more difficult to open in parking lots than SUV or wagon rear doors would be. Configured alot like 10 year old Mazda MPVs. Competes with the Odyssey Touring and Sienna Limited, as well as the Chrysler Pacifica. The Mazda MPV is a standout for being smaller and shorter than most other vans. An again design, it still manages good design, a hint of sportiness, and lots of interior space in a small package. As for buying "American brands", be careful concerning recent changes in the automotive market. Dodge and Chrysler are now German-owned (DaimlerChrysler AG), and their vans are built in Canada, with 75% North American parts. Toyota is a Japanese-headquartered company, but they designed the Sienna in California, and build it in two U.S. plants with 91% North American parts. So despite the more foreign-sounding name, the Toyota is more an "American" vehicle than the Dodge is.

Posted by: earthworm "" The air cooled Volkswagen was the one know for this, but the location made perfect sense. I can see trouble down the road with the Buick's location, with long cables- VW had some trouble here with their ill-concieved type IV big car.. Here the battery was located under the front seat ! Cars are already safe enough, its about time "operating economy" and common sense were given their due.... "" Obviously You havn't dealt with many VWs'. The Volkswagen you're referring to is the TYPE 1 and I've personally worked on Dozens of them that had fried Wiring or worse a fire, and these were a direct result of the batterty being in the rear compartment, under the seat. The problem with this design was shorting out the Battery from the bottom of the seat. The METAL FRAME & supports would contact the battery and short out the system. Anyone that's been around VWs' long enough knows what I mean.

" Is it nuts to hold onto an old car?" Not no but He@@ NO! Whats nuts is buying a new car. First off, the only time you ever get a chance to drive a "New Car" is that brief period at the dealership when they allow you a test drive. During the test drive the car is still registered under the dealers "In Transit Title" and it is legally a new car. The moment the title is put in your name and you sign the document it becomes a "Used Car" and the value instantly drops from the MSRP window sticker to the "Blue Book Price" even before you attach your license plates or start the motor the first time. What is really nuts is taking a cash rebate instead of demanding they take that number off the selling price. Consider the facts. They artificially inflate the price by $2,000 and offer you a $2k rebate which you are to receive after the sale. You negotiate your best price (which still contains that artificially inflated $2,000) and you sign the contract. You now have two choices, you can write them a check for the full amount or you have to finance the transaction. If you have to finance it, you are now paying interest for the full term of the note on that rebate, even though you will get the money back at closing. Not a bad deal for them, they hold your money for perhaps one day and you pay interest on it for 5 years. Now, when you get insurance you are also paying insurance on that $2,000 rebate that you took back immediately and went shopping for other stuff you probably didn't need. Oh yes, Did I mention that you also payed sales tax on the rebate money tooo. But then it is not all bad, hopefully you don't live in my state where you have to pay an excise tax on the value of your vehicle every year, including that $2,000 artificial markup. Personally, I wouldn't buy a new car if I won the lottery.