Mike, "I don't give a kumquat whether we are warming or cooling..." I am offended by your implication that there is anything negative about kumquats. They are great. I grew up with a tree that bore way more fruit than I could ever eat, and the extras served as excellent ammunition for throwing at my friends--especially the green ones b/c they are much harder. :) It is pretty funny with this current cold weather how much people on both sides of the debate cite it as evidence in their direction. As if one piece of datum out of context can lead to any kind of significant conclusion. Whenever winter rolls around gardenweb seems to slow down, which I find annoying considering I live NorCal where we don't have much of a winter. So I appreciate discussion topics that I find interesting regardless of how "on topic" they are for the various forums. I do find it interesting all the people that chime in about how this isn't a worthwhile discussion. In a free society, isn't any any all discussion worthwhile? You are free to discuss and free not to. Cousin floyd, do you not think that colony collapse disorder exists, or are you just saying you don't think it is a new thing? I didn't realize that was even a controversial topic. ryan

I am totally and irrationally attached to my old car. We just got a "new" one - a 2008 hyundai santa fe, but I am already thinking about what to get next when we sell this one. We got a killer deal on a low mileage used one and could probably even make money if we sold it today (and would make money if we totaled it). I love having a bigger car with a toddler and I love AWD in bad weather but I do not really love the crappy gas mileage so hoping in a couple of years our options are better for a CUV with better fuel economy (some of the models coming out this year look good so we'll see how good they really are and then look for a good deal in a couple of years). But we just put a lot of money (where a "lot" is relative to the value of the car) our 2001 Honda Accord. NOTHING special about it at all but I just love that car. It needed a new CV joint, 4 new tires, an expensive 100k mile service and new brakes. Somewhat recently it had the timing belt done and a new clutch. It runs like new now and even though it's nothing luxurious or sporty and never was, if I am going somewhere by myself and the weather is OK I will always take the old car. To me it's like that perfectly faded, broken in pair of jeans that are just starting to get good after 10 years. yeah there are a couple of frayed edges but oooh so comfortable. DH wanted to sell it when we got the "new" car and go back down to one car again (we have shared a car for the last 10 years or so that he has been working from home) but it's really much harder to do that with a child... and I just could not bear to give up the old car.

"...My goodness, you certainly got a lot out of my brief post. Little bit of a chip on your shoulder there, guy?..." ***************** I'm just not afraid to debate the issue as you obviously are. Because you haven't refuted any of my statements. I have no chip on my shoulder. But I just get reeeeaaaallll tired of the people that say the sky is falling. Yes, the earth IS getting warmer and it always will. And then it will cool. As it always has. The ocean WILL rise, as it has in the past, and WILL fall as it has done in the past. So what? Do you REALLY think we can stop it???? I do care about the environment. After all I live in the Peoples Republic of Vermont! (Texas isn't the only independent republic to join the Union!) We elected a Socialist to the US Senate for god's sake! Yes, Bernie IS an avowed Socialist. And proud of it. He hangs a picture of Eugene Debbs in his office. But he's still an idiot. I drive a vehicle that's rated ULEV ("ultra low emissions vehicle") I use wood as the primary heat for my home. (fewer hydrocarbons and a constantly renewable resource) I recycle. Possibly more than you. So I AM aware of the world around me. I'm just not afraid of it. We live by a saying up here. Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do, Or do without. My computer is 8 years old. Because I don't need to waste money on a new one. I live in a small home. Because I like it. I like having land around it. And trees to burn. So if you'll excuse me I'm going to climb into my Ford Expedition (ULEV!) and go to the general store for a newspaper...

Until recently, we drove older vehicles. I had a 95 Chrysler Cirrus (bought in 95) and a 02 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder (bought in 05). The Chrysler had 107,000 miles on it when sold to 16 year old as her first car. I traded the Spyder in for a 14 Chrysler 300C. Hubby drove his 99 van until the frame rusted out and we replaced with a 12 Ram 1500 PU. My family has always driven older cars. My brother has my dad's 96 Chrysler Sebring convertible and recently ventured into the 2000s by picking up a 03 Jeep Liberty. He drives multiple cars every day (utility purposes), switching between a work van, his personal 00 Dodge van and a 73 Plymouth Gran Fury. He's got a bout 7 cars (never less; you'd understand if you knew our family). My all time favorite car to drive is now in a museum. A 27 Dodge Cabriolet that was in the family for 30+ years. I loved driving it. The heavy duty truck transmission requiring double clutching, the "grabber" brakes that required an oh so gentle touch on the pedal. I miss that car.....Here's a picture of the car being loaded up to take to the museum. The guy's head that you see is the guy who's in charge of the car. We've kept in touch and they haven't modified the car at all. Still looks like this and is driven very frequently. I've been fortunate to have driven cars from every decade starting with the 1920s and I've enjoyed the heck out of each one.