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Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Posted by johndeere (My Page) on
Mon, Aug 15, 05 at 21:59

Gas is today $2.76 a week ago it started jumping $2.49 then $2.66.Some say it will drop after labor day weekend.To what by then it will be $3.00 easy the way its going up and already is someplaces.2.49 will seem cheap by then.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

You're right about that. I filled up for $2.49 this afternoon at a station which had not yet raised the price to the $2.69 being charged by all the others nearby. I had to wait in line. Just last week I waited in line to pay $2.29 when all the others had gone to $2.49. What's funny is that a lot of the people waiting in line to buy gas a little cheaper leave their engines idling. I wonder how much of their 20 cent a gallon savings they idle away? If they use 1/4 gallon of gas idling with the a/c on, they spend about 62 cents for the idling, which erases their savings on 3 gallons of gas.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Columbus Ohio this morning:
$2.69 - 87 oct.
$2.79 - 89 oct.
$2.89 - 92 oct.

Very depressing, but I guess not as bad as L.A.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

In the Pearl River Delta area of south China, they are having chronic shortages of diesel fuel and gasoline. There are long lines, and rationing. The government is proposing a fuel tax increase to reduce demand. It must be frustrating to have to wait in line for hours just to buy gas.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

The events in China are the result of poor government - they should send people over here to see how things should be run... lol lol
The day is coming when the tree huggers will lose their grip on power and influence and more rational men will run things.
People will operate Diesels using vegetable oil grown in the USA and Canada...
But I doubt if the price will drop very much..


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I doubt if gas prices will drop. I think they'll keep going up. I now have 4 cars (kids have 2), so cost of maintenance and gas is killing me! Just glad they all get reasonably good mileage. Guess we just better get used to it, because the Lone ranger isn't coming to save the day! The gas demands of the Chinese and India are growing quickly and will probably not let up any time soon. They're also getting more and more of our jobs, including engineering and high tech. I think our days of world economic superiority are slipping and fast!!


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

The big reason for China and India sucking up more oil and causing worldwide fuel prices to soar, is because they now manufacture more of the products that used to be made here. So all these cheap imports that people thought were such a bargain and bought like crazy, in the belief they were just as good as what was made here but only lots cheaper, have not only destroyed good jobs in this country, but have caused financial problems for the low and middle class citizens of the US because of the rapid rise in oil prices. Don't forget, most everything from manufacturing, to transportation, to utilities for homes and businesses requires oil, and with these big price spikes, many people will be in trouble in the coming months trying to deal with it. With oil going from 30 to over 65 dollars per barrel, and no way to offset these costs with any available wage increases, people will be hurting.

GG


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

must be nice to have cheap gas in the U.S.A. Canada's gas is $4.68 a gal. Diesle is $4.09 Propane is $4.22. Thing is,
your next.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I think things are going to get bad now.Its going to affect the price of everything except the average Joes pay check.The price of goods will be going up because of shipping cost.Trying to save a little by buying online will be affected.Because UPS shipping is probably going to go up.Those UPS trucks do not run on air.

Crime will increase because people will be driving off without paying for gas.I look for there to be a increase in credit card theft.I pay cash for gas.But it appears to me like if someone stole a credit card they could use it for gas easily?Poor people will get fed up with there small pay check going out in gas.Around here there are people working for Walmart or McDonalds and can only get partime hours.There forced to drive old beaters that get lousy gas mileage.

I do not drive a cheap import.I drive a cheap domestic.But I would not trade it for an expensive Full size V-8 right now.I look for the cheap compacts to start having a bigger price.While the large Trucks SUV's Full size pickups and large cars and those with Hemis to start dropping like a rock on the used cars lots.All these people driving them can not be Dr's and Lawyers?How can they afford a $90.00 fill up 52 weeks a year along with the huge car payment and insurance costs and still pay for there new house they bought during the housing boom out in the Suburbs when they have to drive 50 miles oneway to work?Plus feed the kids and put clothes on there back and put them thru school?

The only good thing that might come from this.Is maybe they will lower the speed limit back to 55 on the interstates.If there is truely a shortage then why not.They did it in the 70's early 80's.You never seen those Crosses littering are Highways and Byways then either.It was safer driving.We are in the Saftey Saftey Saftey crase so why not.We have to wear seatbelts and put kids in carseats.We need Airbags driver passenger side curtain.But were allowed to drive like were crasy.Everyone is in a hurry.

I will believe there is a shortage the day they lower the speed limit and build all passenger vehicals to haul people and not cargo holds that 90% are not even used.Put a stiff tax on pickup truck owners that do not own a business where it is needed.Put a stop to the Chrysler Hemis and all there modern day muscle cars.Make them build practical vehicals.As long as they do not I will not believe we are not being scamed.

It has been prooven Gasahol Gas made from corn works just fine.You can buy a few vehicals set up for it.Ford Taurus,The last of the Chevy S-10's were set up for it.There are a few others out there.Corn is only worth $2.00 a bushel.Also they have Bio Diesl made from Soybeans even more prooven.Why not go this route?Simple it would end the gouging.

Next they will up the minimum wage to make up for the problems at the pump and put the middle class one step closer to the poverty level.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

If the government is going to do anything at all about the high gas prices, it ought to be to look into the shortage of refinery capacity and consider modifying some regulations to permit some new refineries to be built relatiely quickly. They should also eliminate the patchwork of different requirements for unique fuel blends to suit the whims of different states and even cities, and reduce that to two or three different formulations.

EPA regulations should also be changed so that car manufacturers can put more diesel engines in smaller vehicles. The current regulations are written for gasoline engines, and they do not take into account the fact that diesels are actually cleaner in some aspects than gas engines. A separate set of standards for diesel engines, perhaps giving manufacturers three to five years to bring the emissions of small diesels down to current gas engine standards, would permit consumers to begin buying far more efficient vehicles much sooner. A diesel hybrid that would get probably 70-80 mpg is possible with current technology if the government would allow it. Permitting such a vehicle to be slightly dirtier at the tailpipe than current regulations allow would probably produce a net environmental gain, given all of the secondary pollution that comes with each gallon of fuel burned (finding, extracting, refining, transporting fuel, etc.).


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Put a stop to the Chrysler Hemis and all there modern day muscle cars.Make them build practical vehicals.As long as they do not I will not believe we are not being scamed
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So you are advocating forcing GM to eliminate the CORVETTE and Caddy XLR? Totally useless vehicles!
But yeah, lets make the companies builld "practical" cars. Like 4 door station wagons powered by 3 cylinder/hybrid/vegatable oil engines and force them to be sold for $10,000. No color choices either. You don't NEED a red car! You need a color that's not going to make you speed. So let's mandate all cars be GRAY. And govern the maximum speed to 55 MPH. No car in America can exceed this speed. And by making all vehicles station wagons you eliminate the need for SUVs and pickups.
Bring back the NASH METROPOLITAN!!!


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

2.75 quit yur complaining! a cup of starbucks costs more than that. you can always walk,ride a bike, drive a small car, spend less on other things, if your life revolves around your vehicle and the cost of gas. change your life.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Alternative fules from veggies does not save fuel. It takes more energy to grow and process the corn/soy beans etc. than is gotten from processing the veggies inot oil.

Gas is still cheap even at $3/gallon.

Problem is amny Americans feel they have NOT a right but and ENTITLEMENT to drive fule inefficent vehicles and have a plentiful supply of cheap gas available...it ain't so.

Drive your Hummer if you want, but don't complain about the price of fuel.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

JD-was wondering when your b---ching was gonna get to SUVs.I dont fill mine 52 weeks a year.Maybe ...every 2 weeks.Ive never seen one person complain about so much geeze.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Veggie oil?It is amasing how little people know about agriculture.This Corn we are growing out here is not sweet corn you eat on the cob or buy in a can.Alchohol comes from dry field corn.

We Average 200 bu per acre Corn 50 bu Soybeans we could raise more if needed.We could simply stop giving it away to other countries.Farmers could then get a fair price for there product that is deserved.I realise it would be a slow process and could not cover the complete fuel needs.But it could put a big dent in it.

However Im not really complaining about the gas prices anyway.I get 34hwy 28city on my Cavalier.32Hwy 24city on the Century and the old farm truck is terrible on gas about 10 mpg no matter what its doing.But it is going to be replaced with a small pickup very soon.

Yea they could do away with the Corvette and Cadilac XLR as well.But Dodge Chrysler Mopar what ever they push the Speed and power they alway have.What they need to do is build a vehical that will hold up like there competion.

As for driving a Hummer those people drive me nuts.Every time I see one in a parking lot its double parked.Taking two spaces to avoid a ding.There always spotless and have never been off road a day in there life?There a show off vehical.

If you drive a vehical that gets good gas mileage you have a right to complain about gas prices.If you dont you do not have the right.Thats the prices of Status and keeping up with the Jones.

As for walking LOL that easy to say if you live in the city.As for changing your life style I guess moving to the city.No thanks I would not do that if gas was $100.00 per gallon.I burn my gas driving down the road not sitting a stop lights.I would not want to live close to work anyway.Then they call you in all the time.If you do not answer the phone they could walk up to your door.I dont want all that over time.I do not have status vehicals to pay for.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

While I feel that putting ethanol into fuel is a good idea it WILL make the gasoline more expensive. The product cannot be piped across country like oil or natural gas. It must be trucked to the refinery. That makes the cost of producing the gas more expensive. And what happens in a drought?


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

The oil we recieve from other countries is not piped in.It is shipped in on Ships.The same way our grain is shipped to them.Corn is moved by barge all the time anyway.Perhaps just let the Midwest use this supply.Places like Illinois Iowa Indiana Wisconsin etc?We already have 10% ethanol blend here anyway.That works just fine in all vehicals.We have a drought this year in Illinois.But just Illinois the surrounding states are expecting a bumper crop.The drought here has not caused the grain markets to rise.So evidently a one state drought has not affect.There has not been a nation wide drought since the 30's

We could cut off several countries from are hand out grain supply.Also tell the Arab countries No oil no food.That alone would put a stop to a large percentage of our oil problem.

It will never happen so there is no need worring about how it could be done.We could have had electric powered vehicals years ago.But look at all the money that would be lost.We could have a engine that burns garbage if we really needed it?Its not about oil its about MONEY!!!!!!!!


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Posted by: NJRef (My Page) on Wed, Aug 17, 05 at 16:10

Alternative fuels from veggies does not save fuel. It takes more energy to grow and process the corn/soy beans etc. than is gotten from processing the veggies into oil.
Gas is still cheap even at $3/gallon.

Problem is many Americans feel they have NOT a right but and ENTITLEMENT to drive fuel inefficient vehicles and have a plentiful supply of cheap gas available...it ain't so.
Drive your Hummer if you want, but don't complain about the price of fuel.

NJ, from what I have read, it cost about $2 to $3 dollars to produce a gallon of "veggie oil", today..

This is a most hot subject on the various Diesel forums..
I believe , at this time that our government is anti-Diesel due to the fact that no American car maker has an automotive Diesel as do the Italians, Germans, French, and Japanese..
I agree with the other statements, in part..
Hummers and other monster trucks should not be allowed on the roads unless the states are willing to have much more stringent driving standards and the potential driver secures at least a "semi- CDL" at a very high cost...
And the insurance cost would of course be dreadful !


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Alternative fuels from veggies does not save fuel. It takes more energy to grow and process the corn/soy beans etc. than is gotten from processing the veggies into oil.
Gas is still cheap even at $3/gallon.

But $3 a gallon for gasoline doesn't really begin to cover the costs. Add in costs for emissions control out the tailpipe; the environmental costs of regulations friendly to oil companies, especially from the current Administration; and the costs of maintaining access to foreign oil sources, and the price is nowhere near $3 a gallon. Trouble is that those other costs are borne by 250 million Americans, not just the folks who buy gasoline.

I believe , at this time that our government is anti-Diesel due to the fact that no American car maker has an automotive Diesel as do the Italians, Germans, French, and Japanese.

IMHO, the U.S. government is not anti-diesel. Look at the number of commercial trucks, locomotives, and ships spewing soot, with no practical infringement on the part of the government. It also is not the federal government that has applied California's CARB air regulations against diesels; those are state rules. And I have to think that, since the Italian, German, French, and Japanese companies offering diesels are allied with American car manufacturers, GM, Ford, and DC could drop diesels into their models in a year or so if the demand were there.

As much as I dislike SUVs and the surprisingly large number of people driving them who apparently are utterly challenged by the experience, I think people should buy what they want. But they also should pay the freight for that choice. That means -- as you mentioned -- proving their competence to drive something that size, insuring the vehicle for the damage it can do to life and property, and paying what it really costs to buy a gallon of gasoline for it.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

There's a lot of "hidden energy" in any type of fuel. All of it has to be located, extracted, transported, refined, etc. Ethanol and bio-diesel both supposedly offer a net energy gain even taking into account the energy necessary to create them and bring them to market.

The government isn't anti-diesel. They have simply devised regulations which are somewhat short-sighted. If what you say about the real cost of burning a gallon of fuel is true, and I agree that it is, improving a vehicle's fuel economy by 25 to 40 percent in itself reduces pollution. You can't look only at what comes out the tailpipe. In addition, the tailpipe emissions of diesels are heavier in some contaminants, such as soot, but lighter in others. People perceive diesels are dirty because they can see more of what's coming out. Gasoline engines are considered cleaner because their pollution is usually invisible to the naked eye. We need regulations based on science rather than perception, and regulators are starting to see this.


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RE: 'real cost' of a vehicle

If any of us paid the "real cost" of driving, probably only the wealthiest could afford to do it. The roads, the accidents, the traffic deaths, the whole vehicle infrastructure is all amazingly costly. Yet even those who don't drive benefit from having a society where transportation is freely available and relatively inexpensive.

Yes, it would be possible for experts to get out their calculators and figure out how much it really costs to drive this or that vehicle, and then tax people or invoke some other form of penalties for not making the right choices. Of course, you couldn't stop there, for there'd need to be taxes on anything else that could have a negative effect on anyone else.

There's a point at which I believe people have to say that some things are part of the fabric of our society and way of life, and while these things do impose costs on others, they also provide others with benefits such as economic growth, jobs, lower priced consumer goods, etc.

Trying to nail down every cost and every benefit and make sure the right person pays it or receives the profit from it would have some unintended and undesirable consequences, such as a considerable loss of personal freedom, and very likely a drastic reduction in the standard of living of most ordinary people.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Couldnt Have Said It Better Myself Thank You!!!!!!!!Cowboyind...All Others WATCH WHAT YOU WISH FOR, IT MAY BITE YOU LATER..


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

i read if gas had kept pace with inflation, it would now be 3.99 a gal. so guess we are getting a bargain.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Last week, on August 14th, there was extensive sabotage done to the oil fields of Ecuador, in the provinces of Orellana & Sucumbios. Production of oil has since dropped from about 200,000 barrels per day, to 31,000 barrels per day. The damage will be repaired, and production will be back to normal in November, according to the estimates I have seen.

There is very little information available about the sabotage itself, and the local people living near the oil fields. I really don't know why this was done, or what they were hoping to accomplish. Given that we (USA) import oil from Ecuador, you might think that this story would get some attention in the mainstream news media, like the 6 o'clock news on TV. But I have not seen any such coverage.

Ecuador is said to be second to Venezuala in the amount of oil exported to the USA.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

There was probably more important news that would affect our security like Michael Jackson's trial, so disruptions like these probably aren't newsworthy.

GG

Here is a link that might be useful: Ecuador news story


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I found a pie chart that showed the USA getting 22 per cent of its crude oil supply from South American in 2001. I'm still not sure how much of the total comes from Ecuador, however.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Tis sheer folly for any nation to trust others as a reliable source of anything , particularly a substance as important as petroleum!
We must learn to "grow our own"(Diesel Biofuel).


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

EW,

There is so much we could use that exists or can be grown for Biofuel in this country, that it gives us no reason we couldn't be self-sufficient in energy.

If we could find a way to replace the Congress Critters with people who actually will represent the people instead of Big Oil and other industries, we'd be in a lot better shape security wise.

Perhaps we need to start filing recall petitions immediately after any elections, for each and all of the people who won their seats, no matter how much they've promised the voters. Make sure they have no security to their office so they can't sell us out to big business.

GG


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

**There is so much we could use that exists or can be grown for Biofuel in this country, that it gives us no reason we couldn't be self-sufficient in energy.**

Actually I've read several articals that said something to the effect that if we dedicated 100% of the available farm land to this purpose enough fuel still wouldn't be generated that way. Even if it did, would we be better or worse off to be dependant on other nations for food rather than fuel?


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

That's my understanding as well. The bio-diesel and alcohol fuels can possibly help us cut our dependence on imported oil to some degree, but they're by no means a magic bullet. Not only is there the issue of how much land it would take to grow all those crops we intend to turn into fuels, but also how much energy is put into that process. The "net energy" that you get from those fuels is reduced very significantly by the fact that agriculture itself uses a lot of energy.

But the fact that these fuels aren't "the answer" doesn't mean they aren't valuable. If we could just at this point stop the growth in demand and use the same amount of oil this year as we did last, that would be a huge step in the right direction. Beyond that, even a five percent reduction in demand for imported oil would have a dramatic stabilizing effect on prices.

The scary fact is that there just aren't that many primary sources of energy that are as good as oil. Coal is awfully dirty and not that convenient to put into a car. Hydrogen has some promise, but it takes a lot of electricity to extract from water. And we've got problems with electricity right now because we're getting too much of it from natural gas -- another problem area. (Back as recently as 1995, the experts said we had enough natural gas in the U.S. to meet our domestic needs for 60 years. Whoops. We're already not meeting our needs. The experts probably didn't think we'd start wasting it in power plants that turn gas into electricity at about 35-40 percent efficiency. If it weren't for the Canadians and their willingness to sell it to us, a lot of people would be awfully cold in the winter.)

The solution to the energy problems we have, if there is one, will probably be in a series of small steps rather than some new magical fuel that someone will discover or concoct in a laboratory.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

**another problem area. (Back as recently as 1995, the experts said we had enough natural gas in the U.S. to meet our domestic needs for 60 years. Whoops. We're already not meeting our needs. The experts probably didn't think we'd start wasting it in power plants that turn gas into electricity at about 35-40 percent efficiency.**

Thank the environmentalists and no-nuke crowd for that. Can't burn coal according to them because too much smoke and leaves a big hole the ground. Can't use hydro power because it reduces the number of fish, and we're not going to count hatchery fish as real fish to make it sound like a real problem. Can't use nuclear because it's nuclear. A lot of cheep electricity can be generated here if some well meaning but misguided people would get out of the way, and once the court has approved a power generating project, that was the end of it. Stop the endless appeals.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Hi guys,

I meant to have added to my comment about biofuels: ...along with other energy sources that are available in this country, or can be developed or built.

If this country wasn't controlled by Big Oil and people like GWB and Dick Cheney, who manage to convince our representatives that their way is the best use of resources, we would be in much better shape energy wise and security wise.

If we can't produce enough energy to power this country, even simple things like energy efficiency improvements can go a long way to offset the difference. My 20 MPG van can haul my wife and me just as well as an 8 MPG Hummer can haul my neighbor and his wife. Reducing gas consumption by even a few percent can go a long way to reducing energy needs.

One of the biggest mistakes this country made was to dismantle freight transit systems such as rail, and replace them with inefficient systems such as semis, and also the failure to fund and build mass transit rail systems in areas such as Detroit and other large cities.

GG


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I am old enough to remember what it was like when stuff was shipped by rail. Does that make me a living fossil? Anyway, it generally took more time to get your stuff. We accepted it. That was what we knew, and we considered it normal. If you wanted a special tool, or a piece of furniture with a unique fabric, you ordered it, and then you waited. Maybe a week or two, maybe a month. I'm sure it was a nuisance at times, but we survived and even prospered.

Since 1960 or so, there has been great emphasis placed on quick delivery, as a means to boost sales, I suppose. Along with being able to buy something 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. You can't pin this on one person, or one corporation. Its a sea change, and it has become the standard practice for all sorts of retail in the USA.

I suppose we could go back to the old system, moving things around by barge and railroad. We would have to learn to be more patient.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

That's a good point -- there is a large amount of "hidden energy" in things like express deliveries. Why not send it a few days early through first class mail rather than wait until the last possible second and then overnight it? A lot of the stuff that's sent overnight delivery isn't even needed the next day. I've gotten stuff overnighted to me before that's basically junk mail.

Gary, I agree with you about the endless appeals and dumb decisions that have been made regarding power plants. No one wants anything anywhere near them, yet I don't see many people requesting the local power company to disconnect their service. Can't build any power plants, can't build any power lines, can't build any oil refineries, and heaven knows we don't even dare talk about building a nuclear plant. But everyone wants power for their a/c and gas for their cars. It's fine as long as it's in someone ELSE'S town -- not mine.

Where does all this take us? Right where we are now: Sky high gas prices, sky high natural gas prices, looming shortages. I wish I could blame it on Bush and Cheney, for I didn't vote for them, but I think we need to blame it on ourselves.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

If people would slow down and not take off so fast.If they would cost some before a stop.Rather then flooring it at take off and slamming on the breaks to stop.If they would toss the radar detector and use cruise control and set it at the speed limit.We would save all kinds of gas.Everyone is in a hurry.I get passed several times daily.Yet I seldom ever pass.I drive the speed limit if traffic is heavy I drive over the limit its safer then getting rear ended.But I still get passed like im a slow poke.

A lot of the high gas price is the tax added to it.I say drop the tax.Then inforce the speed limits put extra patrols on the roads.Throw the book at the speeders.They would make more then the tax with all the nuts on the roads.

Then put a gas gussler tax on non business full size pickup trucks that haul nothing more then a bed of air 95% of the time and a Luxury tax on the big SUV'S with 4 wheel drive that never leave the pavement.These things alone would solve the gas problem.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

There's got to be a better way to save fuel than to lower the speed limit again to save a couple percent. That was a miserable 20 + years. Nothing worse than trying to drive 55 mph out on an expressway. I almost fall asleep. I just don't think that's the right answer. It makes more people break the law and then you end up with some people driving 50 and others going 70 which is really dangerous. I've got an old pickup that gets horrible gas mileage (maybe 6-8 mpg). Since I only drive it about 100 miles a year when I need to haul something, it doesn't kill me. I was thinking about replacing it with another one, but you bet when I do that I won't get another full size pickup. I'll get something that gets 25 mpg like a Colorado or something. Same with my car. I won't replace it with an SUV, I'll replace it with something that gets 30 mpg or better. I bet those people driving big SUV's right now that don't really need them are kicking themselves for buying those. If I had to pay $100 to fill my tank each week, I know I would. I bet you could probably pick one up fairly cheap. We need to get back to vehicles with better gas mileage.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

**I bet those people driving big SUV's right now that don't really need them are kicking themselves for buying those. If I had to pay $100 to fill my tank each week, I know I would. I bet you could probably pick one up fairly cheap. We need to get back to vehicles with better gas mileage.**

We bought ours new in '98. It gets 17 mpg and was a good purchase then. Don't really need it now. Kids are grown and don't go places with us much anymore. I am not kicking myself now. It's been a good vehicle for us. It's got 80k miles on it and I'm not planning on selling it till it's got another 80k on it. If I were to sell it today, I'd take no less than $9k - $10k which is what book value has been for it for the last couple years.

I'd like to see us install a bunch of nuclear power plants for electricity. Develop the infrastructure and make vehicle options available that will cost effectively use different types of fuel. Instead of using natural gas to heat water and space, use it to power a bunch of vehicles already on the road. Sell diesel powered cars like earthworm would like to see. Also bio-diesel and alcohol for fuel should be available. That way people still have a real choice without crimping anyones style. I have a hunch that the price of crude oil would fall like a rock if we got serious about doing these things. The market forces of supply and demand could then take over. At the moment supply and demand when refering to oil simply means the people with the supply are demanding more money because we have no other choice. jmo


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I guess we probably should look right in the mirror when pointing fingers about it costing $100 to fill a gas tank. Companies produce what consumers want. Car companies already make cars that get better mileage, but many people don't want them if they can afford bigger, roomier, more luxurious cars and the gas to put in them. Auto sizes have gotten smaller and more economical. Just look at the average car size on the highways today. Much smaller than the big cars of the 70's and much better gas mileage. But, consumers have bought up these SUV's so that's what car companies give them. I'd love to have one, but I wouldn't buy one now. I'd go for the smaller ones like Ford Escape. My sister has one of those and it gets good mileage. They're not as cramped as a mini size car. They're fairly comfortable. My brother in law got rid of his Ford F250 crew cab and replaced it with a Nissan Tacoma. Went from 10 mpg to 25 and he loves it. He doesn't miss that bigger truck at all. Says his Tacoma serves him well. Only down side is you can't pull a really heavy trailer with those smaller vehicles. But, I bet 90% of people never pull a trailer anyway.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I aint kickin myself either for buying SUV and its staying Im not trading..Its way too nice, nothing else would suit us.As I said I only fill mine every 2 weeks.So It doesnt cause a problem....


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Hard to say if automobiles have really "shrunk" in size from the 50s, 60s.
Maybe the state motor vehicle departments would know this, but I doubt it..
I do know that an average Volkswagen, Saab, or Subaru are quite a bit bigger and heavier than those of 40 years ago..American vehicles may or may not be bigger, but I'll bet they are heavier and a lot more costly to operate..
Yes, the fuel economy is better, but not nearly as good as it can be..


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, when in "inflation adjusted" dollars gas cost even more than it does now, there were still big pickups and SUVs. The only difference is, they were bought by people who really did have a strong want or need for that type of vehicle. People who work out of big pickups need them, farmers do, construction workers, tradespeople. SUVs have always been there for people who want to go off-roading, hunting, camping to remote sites, etc. The big Blazers, Broncos, Ramchargers, etc., those were all designed for very specific markets, and not everyone had them.

All that's going to happen is we're going to go back to that. I'm already seeing it happening now. Five or so years ago virtually everyone wanted a truck or SUV, but now I'm seeing a lot of people going back to cars. Trucks and SUVs will always be around but slowly they're going to go back to being specialty vehicles for people who really need them.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Hard to say if automobiles have really "shrunk" in size from the 50s, 60s. Maybe the state motor vehicle departments would know this, but I doubt it. I do know that an average Volkswagen, Saab, or Subaru are quite a bit bigger and heavier than those of 40 years ago

My ex-wife had a mid-70s Plymouth Duster when we first met. It was considered a "compact" car then, but actually was about the size of the more recent Ford Taurus, which was considered somewhere between intermediate and "full-size" (as if someone ordained how big a car ought to be...). If cars have not gotten smaller, the perception of their size has changed. And, heavy or not, I know which vehicles I would want to be in nowadays -- the one with all the safety equipment, air conditioning and some of the other creature comforts.

Trucks and SUVs will always be around but slowly they're going to go back to being specialty vehicles for people who really need them.

I think we're seeing a big change in cars already, with the line between SUVs and trucks and cars melding. The popularity of cars like the PT Cruiser, smaller station wagons, the Dodge Magnum, and crossovers like the Volvo 50/70 series and Subaru Outback and trucks like SUVs indicates to me that people like having a square back in which to put people and "stuff." They meet the needs to haul hobby gear, remodeling materials, and kids around without requiring a truck.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

If you're old enough to remember back, or at least think back, I think you'll find that vehicle size has been one of those things that run in cycles from the start. I believe the popular cars of the early 50's were smaller than they were in the late 50's. In the 60's the hot cars were things like the mustang and corvair. Neither one of them was very big. Chevelle's and Plymouth valiant's wern't very big or heavy either. Cadilacs and Buicks were always big and heavy. Octane of gas improved and so compression and engine size were greatly increased through those days. Cars started getting a lot bigger about 1968 and continued to get bigger in weight and size till 1977. I purchased a 1974 Plymouth Duster brand new and it was called a mid-size then. Compact cars were things like VW's, MG's, Datsuns, that kind of thing. In 1978 most all USA cars were put on a severe diet trying to meet government standards for fuel economy. A lot of people bought the smaller cars and didn't like them. Then came the sport-ute craze. IMO, that was the backlash to forcing people into the smaller cars. People liked the extra room and V-8 power that had become standard begining in the 60's. Through the 80's and 90's, what were the compact foreign made cars got bigger. I presume so more americans would buy them. That's my recollection anyway.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Very true. Look at the Honda Accord, which started out in about 1976 as a slightly bigger Civic, and now it's a luxurious and pricey mid-size model.

It's interesting how we got to the place where SUVs and trucks became the vehicles of choice for so many people. If I were going to pick one vehicle as the leader of the SUV trend, I'd say it was the Ford Explorer. Introduced I believe in 1989 to replace the flawed Bronco II (ever see one on its roof -- I did), the Explorer really became the modern day version of the Country Squire wagon. Roomy, comfortable, fairly powerful, and versatile, it would do a lot of things for a lot of people. And with gas prices sinking, no one really cared that it got 17 miles per gallon.

Of course, the car companies were delighted, because they could bolt a body on a relatively crude pickup truck chassis and sell it for as much as a luxury car. So, the marketing focus changed, and trucks and SUVs starting being marketed to mainstream consumers as daily drive-around vehicles. The rugged image, high seating position, and feeling of safety seem to be the things that buyers cite most often as reasons for preferring a truck or SUV.

With phrases like "command seating," and versatile cargo areas, manufacturers are now trying to convince buyers that car-based vehicles like the Ford Freestyle offer the best of both the car and SUV worlds. Yes, I suppose they do -- they're station wagons, and that's basically all an SUV is to most people. If gas prices stay high, I have no doubt that consumers will move toward these crossover vehicles. The only trouble is, the car companies don't make as much money on them as they do on SUVs.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I love how they market the "commanding view of the road ahead".

I don't care how commanding your view of the road ahead is, if you're not paying any attention to the road like most of the idiots around here, it's not going to help you.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Crude oil prices are now expected to reach 70 to 80 dollars per barrel, due to damage from hurricane Katrina in the Gulf of Mexico. I'm not sure if this will result in an increase for retail gasoline, at the pump.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

it hit 3.00 a gal at some places here in detroit, thats for reg. oh well thats life.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

So far it has not went past the already out of control price of $2.75.But there saying it will be going up.Because of the huricane.They use every excuse to up the price.

Winter is coming and home heating cost will be the next thing to jab away at us.Glad I sighned a contract for my years supply of Propane locked in at $1.45 as the ceiling price.Im sure it will also be going threw the roof.Even though it has nothing to do with gas prices.Im sure they will be ready to line there pockets as well.There all a bunch of vultures.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

In Europe gas costs more than $6/per galon and people do less than Americans...Its not the time to blame China and
India for using more gas, but start changing selfish habits
like having SUV when there is no real need for them (about 90% cases, they are used as a oversized shoping carts), stop idlleing cars whenever possible and in general start saving energy and take care of the enviroment instead thinking only about yourself.

A.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Yes, but most of the $6 they pay for gas in Europe is tax, and that tax goes to pay for things like government financed health care and low-cost public transportation that people here don't get. So it's not 100 percent accurate or fair to say, "Other people pay more so count your blessings."


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

You are right about tax, but you cant deny fact that public transportation which in Europe in oposite to US, works on time is better for enviroment, also cant deny the fact that people in America (in general) earn more than in Europe and they still complain how hard it is to live in this country...and how much it affect their live to fill up chevy suburban !!! The bottom line is that majority of country is isolated from the rest of the world in one way or the other. Whats more a lot of people dont see or even better dont want to see that there is a problem...in their own home....instead they want to believe that the rest of the world is the reason for all US problems. Its easier this way than changing habbits that were worked out for decades...isnt it?
....They call it ignorance.

A


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Some people in the United States do indeed live very well and have gas-guzzling SUVs and other luxuries. Others live on the edge of survival without health care or other basic necessities. Drivers in the U.S. do, on average, use more fuel than most in the world; however, if you compare the United States to a country such as Italy or Germany, people live much farther apart here and do not have access to other forms of transportation to substitute for motor vehicles.

I've heard people say that increased demand in China and India accounts for some of the increased demand for oil, but I don't think anyone with any reasonable level of intelligence "blames" Indians or the Chinese for this. These countries are industrializing, developing, and growing, and the only thing they're "guilty" of is wanting the same nice things and luxuries that they see people enjoying here and in Europe and Japan.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

**Whats more a lot of people dont see or even better dont want to see that there is a problem...in their own home....instead they want to believe that the rest of the world is the reason for all US problems.**

What problems are you refering too? Seems to me the rest of the world is always sending out an S.O.S. to the United States, not the other way around.

The only thing I complain about regarding fuel costs is when it's due to market gaming...which is 99% of all that's going on here imo. The sequence of events should be, $1 gallon gas, followed by problems keeping up with demand, evidence would be some gas stations running out of some grades of fuel from time to time, followed by slowly rising price for product, followed buy disaster that cuts off supply followed by gas lines due to shortages and a spike in fuel price.

What's been going on for years is the people with the supply are demanding more money for the product, period. Anyone who thinks that if everyone who has a suburban trades it in for a scion will change that situation in any way shape or form, and people who live away from the few major population centers can ride a train or bus everywhere, has their head up their arse...unless their building scions somewhere that run on something other than gasoline or diesel and has more than a 40 mile range.

Sport-utes are as resposible for the price of gasoline about as much Californian's were responsible for the sudden high cost of electricity in 2001 when Enron was gaming the system. The consumers fault in it was that they have become accustom to electric lights, heaters, stoves, ect. Yeah, those selfish Californian's. They deserved to get hosed! Don't they realize many people around the world don't have any electricity? They should want to be like them rather than complain!


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

What's been going on for years is the people with the supply are demanding more money for the product, period. Anyone who thinks that if everyone who has a suburban trades it in for a scion will change that situation in any way shape or form, and people who live away from the few major population centers can ride a train or bus everywhere, has their head up their arse...unless their building scions somewhere that run on something other than gasoline or diesel and has more than a 40 mile range.

Sport-utes are as resposible for the price of gasoline about as much Californian's were responsible for the sudden high cost of electricity in 2001 when Enron was gaming the system. The consumers fault in it was that they have become accustom to electric lights, heaters, stoves, ect. Yeah, those selfish Californian's. They deserved to get hosed! Don't they realize many people around the world don't have any electricity? They should want to be like them rather than complain!

I think the truth lies in between. Certainly crude-oil producers and petroleum refiners have chosen to charge what the market will bear. No argument from here on that.

But people make decisions every day that add up to a demand for oil that is way out of proportion to the quality of our lives. Buying an SUV when you don't need one (i.e., never fill it to capacity or take it off-road) is a poor choice, since SUV fuel mileage is so much worse than cars offering similar amounts of interior space and greater ease of driving. Idling at the Kwik-E-Mart or fast-food joint while waiting for your over-packaged order is another choice that adds up to wasted fuel -- especially in a populace that could use the exercise of getting out of the car and going inside to order. People who feel the need to live in (and cool and heat) 5000 square-foot McMansions because they (barely) can afford to do so waste fuel in housing materials, heat, and A/C.

I'm not saying we should choose to reduce our standard of living further than we already have (our standard is already behind that of several European countries). Just saying that Americans make a couple dozen little choices every day that add up to a lot of wasted oil, and that we could cut back considerably on what we use and not truly feel a pinch.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I guess I really can't say whether the market is being "gamed" or not. The supply and demand numbers they report in the media make it look like prices are high because of a very tight balance between what can be produced and what people are using. Of course, you can say that those are nothing but fabrications, and maybe they are. Some are predicting a major price collapse in oil, and most of the analysts say that $70 a barrel prices can't be sustained all that much longer. Katrina has made matters worse in the short term, but those supply disruptions shouldn't last more than a few weeks.

Gas went up 60 cents a gallon here today -- to $3.20. Well, one thing is for sure now: No one can say any longer that consumers are still paying less in "inflation adjusted" dollars than they did 25 years ago. Now prices are the highest ever in real dollars. If the politicians are still going to try to sell people on the idea that we are in an "economic recovery" (if so it hasn't reached here yet), it's going to be a harder sell than ever now, as more and more of people's disposable income gets pumped into gas tanks and less gets spent on everything else.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

**I guess I really can't say whether the market is being "gamed" or not. The supply and demand numbers they report in the media make it look like prices are high because of a very tight balance between what can be produced and what people are using.**

From what I've read, it costs about $4 to produce a barrel of oil. It's being sold at $70. I don't know what you call an 1800% mark up, but the terms supply and demand and free markets can't be correct without a shortage...and there hasn't been one. Besides, everyones been saying it's about lack of refineries. Well, if that's the case, the oil ought to be backing up somewhere waiting to be processed. Which is it? Lack of refining capacity or it can't be pumped out of the ground fast enough?...again with no gas line. To date I can order 10k gallons of fuel at a time and within 3 days it's here...and there isn't even one refinery in my state. What kind of shortage is that?


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

True, there's definitely not a shortage right now as far as being able to get as much fuel as you need. We have to be thankful for that, and one reason why it's true is because prices have been allowed to climb.

Yes, the oil prices are not set by the measurable value of oil, which would be the actual price of finding it, getting the leases on the land, drilling for and extracting it, refining it, transporting it, and retailing it. They are set by what people are willing to pay for it, as determined by what happens to the demand when the price goes up a certain amount.

I guess if you or I owned a factory and were making some product, we'd price it the same way: If you raise the price a dollar and people keep buying just as many, then you raise it a dollar more, and you just keep right on doing that until you see that you've reached the point where a price increase causes the quantity demanded to decrease enough that profits go down as a result of the price increase rather than up. Basic economics being what they are, it's hard to expect anyone operating in a more or less free market economy to behave in any other way than that.

The fact right now with oil is that the price keeps going up, yet the quantity demanded does not decrease enough that the suppliers have to roll back prices to hold their profits up. However, part of this is because most people can't make huge changes to their demand for oil quickly. But in a period of weeks or months, people do make changes, and this will probably ultimately cause the price of oil to drop at least somewhat.

So, the best thing people could do to stabilize the price of oil would be to use less.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

If there was a real supply problem.They would could go back to the old 55 MPH speed limit to save gas.Just like they did when they pulled this shortage BS in the late 70's.

Gas went up from $2.75 to $3.50 at one point today and then a few hours later went down to $3.19.They clain because of the Hurricane?But gas in this area of the country comes down from Canada.So why is gas higher here then in the southern states?I say its all BS just like it was in the 70's.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

its only money j.d., its only money. the real problem is the cost of bananas wil go up! i may have to switch to eating kiwi.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

**Gas went up from $2.75 to $3.50 at one point today and then a few hours later went down to $3.19.They clain because of the Hurricane?**

Back on the day when the terrorists hit us in 2001, a local gas station operator jacked the price of gas at his station several dollars per gallon immediately. A few panicing people bought from him. The story hit the news and the guy ended up offering a refund to people who bought gas from him that day.

**So, the best thing people could do to stabilize the price of oil would be to use less.**

Absolutely. That's why it would be nice to have an alternative to petroleum so people have a real choice. The way it is now, with no other choice, even if we started using 50% less today the oil producers response could just as likely be to raise the price to make up the difference. Then instead of sepending $65 to fill up your suburban, you could end up spending $130 to fill up your scion. Is that supposed to be better? If there was an alternative fuel, the price of oil would be kept in check by market forces. Right now there seems to be nothing but good will to do that.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

The answer, IMO, is the Diesel engine and vegetable oil - grown in our country !
I'd sooner use American "bio-oil" at $3 per gallon rather than Arabian or Venezuelan oil at $2.50.
These are, of course, old figures,from yesterday !

We do, and have needed for a long time, a clear-cut energy plan.
And the "tree-huggers" must stay away...


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Good point, JohnDeere
Until all this can be sorted out, I believe a national emergency should be declared - the national speed limit should be lowered to 60 or whatever is the most efficient..
And that the Federal Government must set the pollution standards, not the states..


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

3.00 to 3.50 a gal gas isnt really causing any problems that i can see, every other vehicle on the road is a big suv, or 4x4 pick up. i was down to the river for a while today the boat ramp parking was full, big power boats, jet skis. the highway has plenty of motor homes cruising along, cars and trucks movin at 80 plus mph. the side walks are empty no throngs of people walking or riding bikes to do their shopping, the city busses that go by the office are empty. my take is nobody really cares or is affected by these gas prices.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I see your point. I do think people are affected, but you will not see the effects as soon among those who own boats, motor homes, jet skis, and big 4x4 trucks. Most people with incomes high enough to afford those things don't trade the Tahoe for an Aveo or sell the boat as soon as gas hits $3. However, many will buy different vehicles and get rid of gas-guzzling recreational vehicles if fuel prices stay high.

The effects will be visible much sooner among lower-income people. Many of them already may be curtailing their driving fairly severely due to the higher prices.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

The number of people who are well off, compared to the average american wage slave is quite low. The people who can afford to drive the big SUVs, play with their gas guzzling toys, hop on a jet for a European vacation, and live in and maintain a 5000 square foot home, will do so with no concern for fuel prices, as long as they have access to it.

The wage slave, has no choice. when fuel prices go way up, the only choice is to cut back and make do with less, buying smaller and smaller cars, staying closer to home on the weekend or holiday, and doing their fishing from shore instead of gassing up and trailering the 22 foot bass boat, 3 hours to their favorite lake.

On Saturday, I had to make a 150 mile round trip to pick up some supplies, and normally there would be a lot of traffic. For a holiday weekend, traffic was extremely light,

Since the wage slave is the majority, they also make up the largest portion of the consumer economy. This will likely mean that all these oil price increases will ripple through the economy, and this majority of people will be forced to change their spending habits, which will continue to drag down our economy.

I don't see any chance of wage increases occuring to offset the cost of living created by higher oil costs.

GG


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

If I could afford a $40000 SUV or full size pickup truck or a boat or RV I would not be concerned about the price of gas either.But even those that do I feel many of them will soon be in a pinch.Because many of them also have a big thick payment book to go along with it.I know there payments might just be harder to scrape up every month now that there gas cost are so high.

I live in a rural area where the majority must drive atleast 20 miles oneway to work.There are a few factories within a few miles.But the high paying jobs require the locals to drive 30 miles and many even 70 miles oneway.These are the ones that can afford the boats and RV's for the most part.

Most of them also live in nice expensive unpaid for homes.That will also soon be heating for the winter.With taxes going up yearly.I feel many of them will also soon be efected.Many of them have poor money managment skills anyway.If they did not they would not be so far in depht and be living so high off the hog.

I went shopping yesterday to a near by city.I noticed traffic was low getting there however in the city traffic was about the same?Along the way there were several vehicals for sale.Many older cars I think because they were replaced with new ones during the Employee discounts sales going on.However there were also several newer SUV and pickup trucks for sale?I think because of the gas prices.

I recently bought a used work car.1994 Buick Regal from a individual who sold it because they bought a Chevy Trail Blaser.Im getting high side of 26 MPG on this vehical with 127000 miles on it.They said the SUV gets 17MPG LOL.My Caveliar gets better milage then 26MPG but I will not drive it to the job sight I have to deal with.But the Buick sips gas compared to the old 71 Chevy pickup that was my work vehical.I now have a little cash in my pocket at the end of the work week.That before was going out in gas.That truck was getting 12MPG so I feel im doing my part.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I just dont understand how you can assume everybody cant afford thier homes and vehicles.Both mine are paid for.....get over it .PPPLLLEE AA SS EEE.....................


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Good for you.But very few new vehicals are sold without financing.Same for boats RV's and certainly homes.Im talking the average Joe hear not Dr's, Lawyers,Mobsters.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

But very few new vehicals are sold without financing.

Financing is not a bad thing by itself. But when people finance themselves up to their eyeballs -- or, worse, start using questionable terms like interest-only mortgages -- that it gets to be a problem.

I bought my house for way less than the mortgage lender would give me. I bought my (2003) car on 1.9% credit (two year loan) because I didn't have to finance much of it and I'd rather stay more liquid. Now all I have left is the mortgage, and I've been reducing the principal on that. It's great if one can pay cash for houses, cars, and "toys." But there's nothing wrong with the judicious use of credit to buy these things, either.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I agree there is nothing wrong with it.I would not have my house or new cars if it was not for financing.My point was even those with nice things that are doing well could have a hard time with todays gas prices.

My home is older and modest.I know several people including my niece that live in a new home in the nice high taxed part of town.That also has a SUV she saids she not ready for a mini van even with 2 kids?Her husband drives a full size cab and a half pickup truck and of course they both have 4 wheel drive yet never go off road.There college graduates and have good jobs.Yet have no money for anything else after there payments.Nice house on the outside with handed down furniture on the inside and very little of it.Make shift curtains on the windows and there 2 children 3 and 6 come second.Thats the way they live and I see it all over.They have to go out on Friday and Saturday nights.Pass there kids off onto there realatives for free babysitter service.So they can booze it up at the local bars.Yet they took Grandmother school clothes and supply shopping?Ganny loves to spend money on the great grandkids.They never take there kids to family things like a movie or a circus.They have to spend there last dollar on material things that the Jones can see.Hint the home and vehicals.The Jones do not see the inside of there home?Its not just them either.I see it all over all the time.There hurting bad and it shows.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

There's no question that many Americans over-spend. We have among the lowest rate of savings in the world, and it's dropping. I heard a news report saying that last month American consumers as a whole spent more money than they earned. That's only happened a few times in history.

So when you have $3 a gallon gas, a family that drives a total of 2,500 miles a month at an average of 20 mpg will spend $375 on gas. Just a few years ago gas was $1.50, so that's nearly $200 extra going out. And this is for people who drive 2,500 a month spread between two cars. People who have long commutes to work could easily drive more than that.

So you take this extra $200 against the background of people whose budgets are already maxxed out, and then add to that the fact that "for the public's benefit" the government is pressuring credit card issuers to raise minimum payments to 4 percent of the outstanding balance instead of 2 percent, and you see that for many people lifestyle changes are going to be necessary.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

never use credit for anything but a home, always live beneath your means. best advice i ever got.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

All it takes is a little planning and self control if you want it bad enough you can plan, work to get it.Its called goals.we did with out for years,To get where we are now.Thats why it is so SWEET.....


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

The gas crisis of 1973 made me think long and hard. Based on what we learned back then, I have studioiusly avoided debt on anything but a house, and have done everything I can to reduce my need for driving. I have never paid more than $5,500 for a vehicle. In the past ten years, I have always found a house/job situation that allows me to cycle and/or take public trans to work at least part of the time. The family has always arranged things so that we only need to do once a month "serioius" grocery shopping...in between, one of us picks up fresh produce on the way home.

Net result: the family, in total, drives 3,000 miles per year for routine, plus one or two driving vacations that add maybe 2,000. Our family budget is not substantially impacted by the price of gasoline, nor the fuel economy of our vehicles. And, thanks to only purchasing vehicles which are cheap enough to pay for in cash, we have been able to benefit from the stock market.

Lots and lots and lots of benefits are to be gained by driving less and never using credit to buy a car which only goes down in value anyway.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Gas could go up to 5$ a gallon and people are stupid enough to pay for it.Boycot it for a few days and it will come down but no one wants to sacrifice and are to comfortable in there everyday lifes.I think people just like being takeing advantaged of.But I for one am not.I pay half price to fill up a tank of gas.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

**I pay half price to fill up a tank of gas.**

How do you do that, drive off without paying every other time?


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

You know that your allowed to own alchol stills.Moonshine mix it with your gas you buy.You would need to read up on it to make a properly made still to prevent explosions.And buy good pressure gauges and relief valves.If I can do this I am sure anyone can.I know a few people in my area that has them and do the same thing also.In older cars and trucks you could run them on pure alchol.I would run it straight but it would eat up the valve seals and other seals to fast on newer cars and trucks.But I am doing it and I would think many more will soon also.It's even better pollution control also.Best of both worlds.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Actually, zinc_man, there are many cars which come from the factory able to run ethanol ("E85"). Their mileage on ethanol isn't as good as it is with gasoline, but it's an option for them.

As for your earlier comment ("Gas could go up to 5$ a gallon and people are stupid enough to pay for it.Boycot it for a few days and it will come down but no one wants to sacrifice and are to comfortable in there everyday lifes"), that simply is not an option for many people.

Live a fair distance from work? Maybe that was a choice -- or maybe, courtesy of America's mania for corporate mergers and reduced "headcount," you now live quite a ways from your new job. Many good-sized metropolitan areas have pretty poor mass transit, too, so that's not much of an option unless you have a lot of free time.

Vehicle choice is similar. You can opt to make an SUV or pickup or a high-performance car your daily single-occupant commuter. In that case, you pay the freight -- it was your choice. Or you sell it for what you can get and move on. But there are people who need the power of an SUV or pickup for towing, or work in rough terrain, etc. It's a shame that the cost of doing their business goes up because the price of fuel skyrockets, but it is a cost of their business just as everything else is, and unless they can find some magic way to do without it, they'll pay the price almost no matter what it is. More correctly, we'll pay the price, since we buy their goods and services.

I think that, at a time when oil companies are announcing record profits, there's something fishy going on. But not buying gas on Tuesday when you'll just have to buy it on Wednesday isn't much of a protest, and some folks just don't have the choice.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Today gasoline in Bennington, VT is $2.65 per gallon. It has dropped 13 cents in the last week. I just heard on the news that forecasters predict gas will go down 35 to 40 cents per gallon by Thanksgiving.
And again, boycotting the gas station isn't going to affect the oil companies one bit. But it will hurt the guy running the station. And he's your neighbor!


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Gas prices have dropped here also.However Diesl fuel is $3.29 and rising.But they found a new way to rob us now anyway.Home heating cost have went through the roof.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

I suspect a lot of stores have started their Christmas-shopping season early because, once people start getting winter heating bills, their wallets are going to shut with a resounding thud.

It surprises me a little that truckers aren't making more noise about the price of diesel. Someone suggested (elsewhere, I think) that that is because they simply pass on the cost to their customers. But when the customers can't ship as much -- or their customers can't buy as much because the product is now more expensive or the customers are busy paying their heating bills and not buying widgets -- we could have a sizable economic problem on our hands.


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RE: Gas prices on the rise again!This is getting serious!

Funny how now gas seems reasonable at $2.50 per gallon?I remember getting use to paying $2.19 and now $2.50 seems to be where its going to stay.

I would be happy with $2.19 again but I dought it will happen.Funny how the prices go up and then a high price seems cheap.

Its going to be a long winter for many.Glad I use propane rather then natural gas or worse yet heating oil.


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