My new Veeblefetzer 5000 gets 100 MPG using Crisco and anybody that gets less should go directly to jail.

There is no law concerning minimum MPG. Otherwise Ferrarris would be outlawed. There are CAFE requirements that mandate what the AVERAGE fuel economy for makes of vehicles is but if they sell more little econoboxes they can sell more trucks.

But there are those out there that feel they have the right to tell others what to drive, how to live, etc. So if the guy in the HEMI can afford the gas, it's none of anybody's business.

Being under 30 years old I started driving when gas was around .90 a gallon.
Back then 15 mpg on truck was bad mpg to me.So I traded it in on a nissan car over ten years ago.
Today I think anything under 34mpg is bad MPG. I read about about people who were driving trucks and got a car now and are very happy getting 28 mpg. I find that 28 MPG is hard to be happy about.

I drive a car getting 28mpg for reference.

I believe that Humvee's (at least the original, not sure about the HII) get around 10-12.

To get 34MPG+ I think you're driving a POS little S(%^t box.

You can drive a real nice luxury or performance vehicle and still get high 20's cruising. I offer the new vette as an example. My 98 Mazda Millenia consistently delivers an average of ~23-24 which I think is pretty good.

My 0.02

pawprint1,

Many large-engined / low MPG cars, which includes exotics like Ferrari, have a *Gas Guzzler* tax on the sticker.

If you believe the EPA estimates or the DOE, you should rethink life in general. Excluding hybrids and non-gas variants, MPG above 20 is still better than average.

Consider all the SUV, RV and non-business related trucks on the road that are lucky if they get 15 MPG, let alone the ones that get 6-10 MPG... :-(

TJ

I didn't mean to imply it was "my" business. But with rising gas prices I am trying to remain positive. To remain positive I look around and take some sort of satisfaction that at least I'm not the one paying the "most" at the pump.

The matter is no longer WHO can afford it.
In the long run, that money could have been spent elsewhere, no matter how rich or poor you are.

sdello writes :To get 34MPG+ I think you're driving a POS little S(%^t box.

I averaged 50 mpg in a vehicle large enough to "convey" a ladder (extend-able to 52'). The doors were larger than the ones on the '80 Mercedes 300 !
Advanced engineering and the Diesel engine are the answers..
There is no need for any vehicle to have so much power that it can go double the speed limit..
But most people seem to be primarily interested in power and performance - hence the monster vehicles (Hummer H3 for one)....
When the fuel price hits $30 ($29.999 !) per gallon, maybe then practicality will take over...
As a boy, I owned a '48 Hudson and a '50 Buick -added together they would hit 20 !!!

The only "economy" cars on the market were the Crosley and, stretching it, the King Midget...

earthworm:
"I averaged 50 mpg in a vehicle large enough to "convey" a ladder (extend-able to 52'). The doors were larger than the ones on the '80 Mercedes 300 !"

You left out what the mystery vehicle was/is, or how you "conveyed" that ladder.

Anything can be loaded onto a vehicle..to a point (see link).

Sorry but "doors were larger than the ones on the '80 Mercedes 300" doesn't conjure up images of a luxury vehicle in my mind.

"There is no need for any vehicle to have so much power that it can go double the speed limit.. "
Agreed, but it sure is fun to drive.

"But most people seem to be primarily interested in power and performance - hence the monster vehicles (Hummer H3 for one).... "
I can't say that I've thought of a Hummer as a "performance" vehicle.

ew: I'm not knocking you but you haven't changed my mind at all.

Here is a link that might be useful: loaded up

"loaded up" is totally unbelievable - shows what can happen when one is completely devoid of common sense. That include the fool at Home Depot who should have refused to load up !! Or maybe he knew what was going to happen and decided to do some "lesson teaching"....For that he could have lost his job..

What I did was pretty bad ,IMO, as the ladder, even collapsed to 26 feet still stuck out about 14 feet in the '85 VW Golf. But it was secure...
I reasoned I could get away with this, on 35 mph country roads, as long as no one was stupid enough to tailgate !!
The '85 Golf II was a newer, more practical design than the old Mercedes..And I consider neither to be "luxury"...

AKAsTJ, I believe the EPA estimates, at least on the vehicles I own, because I usually get mileage at least as good as that posted on the window sticker, and often better. Rather than re-thinking life in general, I'd suggest that a person who can't achieve the EPA estimates re-think his or her driving style, or perhaps purchase a different brand of vehicle. All a person has to do is look around and see the excessive idling, unnecessary jackrabbit starts, speeding to stoplights and then slamming on the brakes. This is more the norm than the exception, so it's not too big a surprise that many people get poor mileage.

Unless a person drives an SUV, 20 mpg is not all that great. I can do better than that on the highway in my 10 year old Blazer. With a reasonably efficient mid-sized domestic car, 25-30 mpg in mixed driving is easily possible.

ew: LOL I was all set to guess you were talking about a VW Rabbit diesel.

"even collapsed to 26 feet still stuck out about 14 feet"
You really got 12 ft of ladder inside of a Golf? I can't picture putting a 12ft 2 x 12 inside one of those.

I concede that maybe "POS little S(%^t box" was a little harsh but you're proving my point that the high mileage vehicles are ALL small "commuter cars".

Cowboy: "I can do better than that on the highway in my 10 year old Blazer" Is this the smaller S-10 based Blazer (as opposed to the full-size Blazer)? What engine? (4.3L V-6?) If so, it should easily pull 20+ on the highway. SUV classification means nothing. Lumping them all as gas-guzzling SUV's is like calling a Ford Ranger a "gas-huzzling pick-up truck" and comparing it to 7.5L 460c.i. powered F-250.

Here's some examples of current "family" cars that are getting better but aren't solidly in the 30's but you really can't comapre these size-wise to the old sedans of yore like the 70's-80's Catalinas/Bonnevilles/caprice/Impalas/Sedan deVilles

2005 G6 21/29
2005 Impala 21/32
2005 Caddilac CTS 18/27

Let's compare apples to apples.
Thanks, this is a fun thread.

FWIW: my wife's full-size '93 Caprice wagon with a 5.0L (305 c.i.) V-8 and a 4-speed overdrive automatic pulls better than 20 on the highway. Average overall likely ranges from 16-20.

Yes, it's the 4.3 V6, and the EPA ratings on it when new were 16/21. It'll still get 21 - 22 mpg on the highway at 70 mph, and this is with 114,000 miles on it. I was responding to the comment above mine that most vehicles on the road other than hybrids and diesels do well to get over 20 mpg. However, the truck or SUV classification does mean something, because these vehicles do not get mileage as good as cars which offer similar interior space. The 4x4 equipment weights them down; their more upright profile and elevated ride height interferes with aerodynamics, and often they're geared for towing or hauling. A car of similar size with the same engine and two rather than four-wheel drive would probably get 5 mpg better. For example, there are V8 cars like the Ford Crown Vic that can get 25 mpg on the highway.

I feel if your getting 20 and above city or highway you can live with the price of gas.30 is better however.I get a kick out of people calling a small good gas mileage vehical a S- -t box.Yet a Corvette that holds two and has no room or a pickup truck that holds two or three shoulder to shoulder with a bed with a tonoue cover making it impossible to haul anything is not?I realise there is more room in a full size SUV.But unless you weight 400 pounds do you really need the room?I weight 270 and im 6.3 and drive a Cavalier sedan.Also a very roomy Buick Century that still gets 30 mpg on the highway.Just how much are people willing to spend on gas to have Room?If you weigh 400 pounds grease up the door frame and throw a Twinkie on the dash board.I also agree if you can afford the gas its none of my business.But it sure seems some are getting Pi$$y about it with just the mention of gas prises.I might just get my self a SUV I noticed the other day there was a few 1998 Chevy Blasers on the lot for $3995.00 two years ago you could not touch a used 1996 for under $7000.00.That tells me something and there not terrible on gas?I mentioned this to the saleman and he agreed.

I have heard gas gussler owners complaining about the price of gas.The other day a guy was filling up a GMC 1 TON dullie and griping about the price of gas.I asked him if he was considering trading it off.He said no he needed it to pull his camper trailer.I said did you know you could stay in a Motel8 for under 40 dollars?Campgrounds charge $22.00 full hookup these days.Plus you will not get eaten up a live by the Skeeters.You also will not have to listen to the loadmouth drunk camped next to you.As I drove away he was still filling the tank holding his hat and scratching his head.I laughed so hard I nearly wet my self.Why a guy would want to camp in a portable house on wheels.Out in the woods and take a chance on getting mugged or murdered and at the end of the stay.Have to put on the rubber gloves and pull the plug at the dump station is beyond me.You might as well live in a trailer court if you like it that much.

any car that gets less than 34 mpg is bad , any truck that gets less than 24 mpg is bad.

JohnDeere,
Thank you for showing me the error of my ways...I'm going to put my trailer in the paper for sale right now....how could we have been so stupid?

"any car that gets less than 34 mpg is bad"

I need to replace my wife's car. As stated above she currently has a '93 Caprice wagon. We have two sons 14 and 15 YO (they don't drive). My wife fits the stereotype of chauffering the kids to soccer/baseball/golf etc. Often we share driving duties with other parents so there are ~ two more kids in the group with equipment (golf clubs for example)

bill_h - Please give me an example of a "good" car to consider for a replacement.

VW Passat TDI
VW Golf TDI
VW Super Golf TDI not yet available, of course
Mazda 5
Honda
Toyota
Chevrolet
Ford 500
but,beware of the VW dealers

I would keep what I have now, unless it is really a gas hog..

get her a miata, and let the kids ride bikes.

All of the cars below cannot compare either by passenger carrying capability or cargo carrying capability to the present wagon
VW Passat TDI
VW Golf TDI
VW Super Golf TDI not yet available, of course
Mazda 5

Each of the brands listed below might have a suitable replacement in thier ranks but said replacement won't meet the 34+ MPG criteria for a "good" car
Honda
Toyota
Chevrolet

Ford 500
this is a decent car but only delivers ~20mpg therefore it is NG

"get her a miata, and let the kids ride bikes."
the miata is rated 23/28 mpg so it is neither "good" nor useful...and according to johndeere, as a two seater small trunked sports car, it is a S--t box to boot.

You're again proving my point that the high mileage cars are small commuter cars and do not fit everyone's lifestyle. Further, based on bill_h's stated criteria of 34mpg minimum defining a "good" car, there isn't a "good" alternative for this useage. Guess I'll have to be stuck with another "bad" car.

The "super" Golf TDI has huge capacity and does achieve the high MPGs - 40 plus.
Maybe a Diesel powered "mini-van" would fill the bill..
Of course, we will never see such practical vehicles, the marketers/so-called sales research men believe all Americans want "Hemis", monster trucks, and SUVs - gas mileage be damned....
These Ivory Tower marketers probably still think gas costs but a dollar a gallon......

I think Bill H had the right idea in staying on the threads orginal topic.
I think 34mpg is good gas mileage.
Needing a good car for hauling around kids and equipment is another topic.

My wife and I decided 5 years ago its a whole lot easier to travel in a car and then rent a motel for $30 than to spend money on a truck and camper.

Im sure im missing something by not enjoying the whole "RV expereince" but I wont miss what I never had.

good mpg bad mpg it comes down to what ever your willing to pay for and live with. for myself 24 hiway for a truck and 34 hiway for a car, are my minimums. my truck and car both meet those numbers. would this work for all of you? i dont know. i have no kids, i rairly drive more than 150 miles from my home, i dont pull any trailers, i dont haul any loads, other than 2 kayaks. in all honesty a 2 seat smart car would cover 98% of my needs when it comes to a vehicle.

Some people are so funny to me. Gas prices are way up as are profits to the oil companies. No shortage, nothing to explain the higher price other than market gaming. Some people want to point to the suv owner as the problem. Mini vans that get about the same mpg are ok for some reason. A person who gets 35 mpg but is still paying $2.50 per gallon for a product that can be sold at a profit at $1.25 is still getting screwed...and not by the guy driving the hemi.

Good/bad gas mileage is a relative term. I guess if a dodge hemi can tow a 6000 lb trailer and get 12 mpg, and a gmc with a 454 pulls the same trailer and gets 9 mpg, I guess the gmc is getting bad mpg. If one guy purchases a little yuck mobile and gets 40 mpg, and another buys a little ick mobile with the same capablities gets 35, the guy with the ick mobile is getting bad mpg.

GoodOleBoy, What kind of flop houses are you putting your familly up in for $30? Just got back from a trip myself and the cheepest room with two beds we found was $75. It cost a guy I know at work $65 per night for a campsite with hook ups at a KOA outside West Yellowstone a couple weeks ago. He knows he got jipped at that place. $30 sounds like those run down rent by the hour places in the questionable part of town.

""GoodOleBoy, What kind of flop houses are you putting your familly up in for $30? ""

Before I was married I use to sleep in the car and take showers at truckstops. Wife wont let me do that now.

I found a few $15 motels in Arizona but wife refuses to stay there.

Yes the rooms are run down at some places some are really nice though.. But Im not on vacation to get a nice motel room. We sleep for about 8 hours,shower and move on to our final destination if we are staying a few days or at our vacation spot we get a nicer place.

Ive seen to many people handling human waste in RV's to know I dont want to deal with that mess on vacation. I get enough "crap" while at work.LOL

**Ive seen to many people handling human waste in RV's to know I dont want to deal with that mess on vacation. I get enough "crap" while at work.LOL**

Me too! I'm afraid a Super 8 is as cheep as my wife will stay in as far as motels go. She will book us into a cabin somewhere for $100 per night for a week at a time that are pretty seedy though. She always brings our own bedding, a cot or two, and some fold up furniture in case the things provided are too creepy for her. Now you know why we need the sport ute to go anywhere!