Rotor spec for your car is 1.102 nominal, 1.024 minimum thickness. That means when machining my preference is to not go closer than .030 of the discard or 1.054 for the unofficial minimum machining thickness. Rotors of course can be machined off the car and have been for decades. However the preferred method for your car is to machine them on the car. That provides automatic correction for any wheel hub run-out. That's one of the reasons they are fastened to the hub with those two screws. The other reason of course is so that during initial assembly they don't fall off on the assembly line before the calipers are installed. But when you need to remove them, how does a tech do it? I have two methods. One is an impact screwdriver that operates by inertia. There are spiral groves in between the inner and outer portions of the tool, and when you hit it with a hammer and force it to collapse, the inertia of the outer half not wanting to start turning, forces the inner section to try t turn and tighten or loosen a screw depending on the tools setting. Almost every motorcyle tech will be familliar with this tool, they have existed since the 60's at the least. In fact mine is probably the oldest tool in my tool box, having purchased it in the early 70's. But it does not always work, sometimes the screws are simply too tight, and I break the screwdriver bit pretty often. That forces me to use the second method, which ruins the screw. I take a large center punch, and start by making a deep pin hole into the edge of the screw, without hitting the rotor. Once the hole is there, I move the punch to an angle to force the screw to turn by driving it with the punch and hammer. With practice this is really simple and has never failed to remove one of those screws. On a few occasions I have even been able to re-use them. Lastly, 1 1/16" translates to approximately 1.060 (about .030 for 1/32) IMO you would not have been able to machine those rotors successfully, as they would be getting too thin to allow for enough material to deal with the heat generated by braking. Plus six years old on a vented rotor, the rust that builds up in the middle cooling vanes prevents the rotor from cooling efficiently. Plus, the same rusting makes the rotor structurally weaker and prone to "crushing" which is one of the primary causes of rotor thickness variation. All those things together make it unadviseable to have not replaced these rotors when doing the brakes. At the same time we haven't talked about how good the calipers really are, and the caliper slides, how free are they? What about the rear brakes, did you check them? The parking brake assembly? How is the fluid, should it have been flushed? There is so much more to replacing brakes, than just simply slamming a set of pads. That's why you will never see my quote things like the "$99.00 brakes, additional work extra routine".

My bet is, if we had to do it again, we could probably have paid about $500 less, if we'd really pushed. [snip] I wish people could just be totally honest and we wouldn't have to play these games. Good ol' hindsight -- always 20/20! :-) Seriously, yes, you probably could have done better. But that likely would have taken far more time and information than you could spend. I know the insides don't really matter.......but this thing was like new inside. I hope the engine, etc. is the same way! The insides do matter. First, it's most of what you see when you're in the car. Second, if the inside was well-cared-for, the rest of the car should have been, too. But, in the future, you really should have a prospective used car examined by a mechanic you trust to make sure you're getting the deal you think you are. I have another question for you. I'm seeing some really low-priced cars that only have something like 25,000 miles on them. Can we read anything into that? Why so cheap?? The market for most used cars has softened considerably. Incentives on new cars (0% financing, rebates) and cheap leases made the price differences between used and new cars marginal and so people bought or leased new cars. With the continual incentives for new vehicls, used cars flooded the market. Speaking of flooding, there undoubtedly will be a bunch of cars from Katrina-stricken areas which some unscrupulous people will attempt to fix and sell off with a -- er, washed -- title. Those cars will be cheap to keep them moving. Also, most of these cars had a big yellow sign on them that said "No hassle pricing". To me, that means they just don't want to deal. What does it usually mean?? I think that statement is just plain silly. Are we stupid or what?? Are we supposed to think "Oh, how nice! We can just pay the asking price and have no hassles!" hahaha (We're stupid, but not that stupid) Lots of people enjoy haggling for a car as much as they enjoy getting root canal. Personally, I would venture that most of Saturn's success comes from their no-hassle, we're-all-friends-here demeanor, because it certainly isn't the cars or the great deals that keep people coming back. "No hassle" is an attempt to bring the price down some from full list to let buyers think they're getting a deal -- which they are, without the usual confrontational aspects of negotiationg; just not as much as possible. It should also be a little cheaper for the dealership because they don't have to burden their sales reps with so much dead time spent "speaking to the manager" -- they can be out selling cars. You'll notice that no one offers "no hassle" trade-ins (not even Saturn). Besides, how many things do you buy for which you actually negotiate? Groceries? Patio furniture? Insurance? Mortgages? In a way, "no-hassle" puts car-buying on the order of buying something in a department store. Don't like the price? Don't buy. I guess I was naive in thinking that it was safer to buy a used car from a reputable dealer. Am I totally wrong on that? The dealer has been nothing but honest and above-board with me on a regular basis. I've even taken my Odyssey in for weird things I've noticed, and they've checked it, and said nothing was wrong, when they could have ripped me off (like the volvo dealer used to). Maybe I should only feel good about buying their used cars, if they are precertified? Some manufacturers put limits on the cars they will sell "precertified" -- like how old the car is, how many miles it has,.... Just because a car is not certified does not mean it's bad -- though I would think less of a two- or three-year-old Civic sold by a Honda dealer that wasn't certified because that certification is worth more to the dealer. And the salesman said he couldn't do any dealing at all on the warranty....when we asked it to be included in our price. Of course, we just lowered what we wanted to give for the car, but have you heard of that before....that they don't include those in "the deal"? Well, maybe he couldn't deal on the warranty. But I'll bet someone at the dealership could. I've done it (and still refused the warranty). And I could see why the dealer would not be tripping over himself to swallow the cost of a "$1200" warranty in the price of an $8,000 car. I hate buying cars.......new or used. The reality of everything is just so variable! You've just provided Reason #16 why people like "no-hassle" pricing. :-) Buying a car anymore is a considerable investment. We all want to make sure we get it right. Having to haggle over the price when you don't know the real cost makes it that much more difficult.

not having a trade you in a very desirable position. I HATE buying cars and all the bs that goes along with it. You really should try to use Edmunds to find your desired car then use the internet to try to get the car for that price. Once they agree to the price, just go drive it. If you like it they just have to write it up. Alternatively you can find the car at the price you want over the net. Pop into the dealership to drive it...don't tell them you've been in contact on the net. If you like it, go home ask them to write every thing up. You may need to email some info back and forth if you want a loan. Then just go in, sign the papers, pay and drive off---should be pretty quick if all the paperwork is much done. I do not know what you are looking for but 2010 Corolla LEs are selling under $300 invoice and had a $750 rebate last month. I am not sure what the rebate will for for Feb. We are talking out the door for about $16.7K or less. That seams like a great deal and I took advantage of it this week. If not pickly about colors, send for some quotes from local dealers. Then on or around Feb 25 say you want to purchase on 2/28 and tell them to send there drop dead best price. It should be pretty painless. Good luck. PS As far as Enterprise, I'd be weary. A low milegae car reccomended by consumer reports I might take a chance on...a car with a bed rep from Enterprise...forget it.

I'm a Honda zealot also so I'd vote for that. I've had four of them and none have ever had any type of problem and required nothing more than regular maintenance, new tires, etc. I've heard Volvo maintenance and repairs are very expensive. Not sure if that is true or not but I noticed when I had a Lexus all the maintenance was 2x the price of the same maintenance for essentially the same vehicle - Toyota Highlander. I also heard similar reports from someone I work with about another luxury/high end brand - I think Volvo fits in that category. I also haven't gotten the impression Volvo reliability is as good as Honda but that's based on my experience with Honda only and anecdotal reports from a few Volvo owners. I'm not sure what new cars are going for these days but I bought a new 2003 top of the line, everything but naviagation Accord for well under $30K. It's the best value I've ever gotten in a car (we always buy new). In fact, I guess that's the model you are looking at 2003 EX-L - if that's the 6 cylinder model. This is a fabulous car in my opinion.