Usually if you have late stagglers they are either late season hatches that have not put on the necessary weight to start the migration or they are older or ill hummers that know instictively that they can't make the trip. Right now I have a juvenile that showed up here on Oct. 16th after our snow storm on the 12th. I have 3 different style feeders up for him but he obviously hasn't learned to use a feeder as he will only use the flowers of my surviving salvias and cannas. He is bulking up so I hope he will be able to continue on his maiden voyage to a warmer climate. I have posted pictures in a previous thread titled New Baby Showed Up 10/12/06 Penny

A few more details would be helpful: How long was her initial lease term, what were the dates? When did she move out? Did she give notice? If so, verbal, written? How far in advance? My someday future daughter in law was living in a apt in California with her roomies, she ended up leaving because one of the roomies moved in a boyfriend whom she does not trust. In all likelihood, this was in direct violation of the agreement that your future d-i-l signed, and is grounds for terminating the contract. The proper thing to do would have been to put it all in writing, voicing that it is in direct violation of the agreement, that she is ill at ease living in these circumstances, and that if Boyfriend is not removed from the premises in xx number of days she will be leaving based on violation of the occupancy agreement. That should have been sent certified (signature required) to each individual roommate and the landlord. Landlord at that point should have swooped in and made sure Boyfriend was removed from premises. If landlord did not remove Boyfriend who intimidated your future d-i-l, thus violating agreement, she would have had the right to send him a second notice that she would be moving out based on the fact that Boyfriend was still residing at premises in violation of their Agreement and she was ill at ease with this person's living in her residence. (But I'm going to conclude she's younger, and probably didn't know protocol for handling this type of situation.) I thought that if your lease is up you can move out. You can. The contract is up. Notice is typically given in advance that party(s) will not be renewing. This assists all concerned in making a smoother transition to new occupancy/new lease term. However, if I have a tenant who moves out at the end of their lease did not give me notice, I cannot legally force them to continue to pay rents once a contract has expired. It's my job as landlord to keep communication open and see what their intentions are. Also, contracts with roommates are in general a big pain in the ***. I have one house now that has had various roommates over a 5 year period. Only one young man has stayed consistently. Typically, one roommate will 'bail' for greener pastures at some point during the annual term, typically with the attitude that remaining roommates are sufficient to carry the lease and come up with rents. (Not always the case.) Since alternate roommates are pretty readily available to the remaining tenants in my case, it's simpler for me to terminate the lease and start a new one rather than take abandoning roommate to court. Typically what I do is send a "Termination of Lease Notice" to all involved indicating that I'm immediately terminating the lease because one of the roommates abandoned the premises, in direct violation of terms of lease, etc. I then immediately initiate a new lease with remaining roommates and adding the new roommate they got to fill the abandoning roommates place. And abandoning roommate has lost their deposit. Concluding there are no 'quirky' clauses in the lease, (it's written in 'standard' language), I'll toss out a few scenarios from a landlord's perspective. If she was on a term lease, and it's expired, her commitment has ended. Additionally in her favor, if since her departure and expiration of agreement she signed, the lease/contract has changed terms to month to month, and she did not sign the new contract, then she's no longer party to any agreement or bound to it. In other words, say she signed an annual lease that went from 1/1/2006 to 12/31/ 2006, she moved out 10/31/2006. When the annual lease term expired 12/31/06, that contract was exhausted. Subsequently, a new monthly contract was drawn up effective 1/1/2007. She didn't sign it expressing her compliance or agreement to the new terms, in fact she's not even living there. She's not bound to it. No two ways of getting around it that I can see. However, she is technically liable for rents through the entire term of the original lease agreement she signed. (Unless she got a new roommate to take her place, it was done in accordance with any roommate change clause in the lease, and all parties concerned were in written agreement). So if she left 10/31/06, term expired 12/31/06, no agreed upon roommate was introduced to take over the rents, then she is liable for rents for Nov 2006 and Dec 2006 using my example above. She can probably kiss her deposit goodbye, but she was probably anticipating that. Here's a different scenario. Lets say she had stayed on to the end of her lease period, resided there, paid the rent, tolerated the boyfriend. Then landlord decides to change terms of the agreement at renewal. Landlord and other roommates agree on it but future d-i-l does not. If she isn't happy with new terms of new contract (and it could be anything: change to monthly lease, pets are now allowed, increase in rents, etc.) the others cannot attempt to force her to accept a new lease wherein she finds any changes in the terms disagreeable to her. And that, in essence, sounds like it is exactly what they are trying to do here. Seems to be a double standard here. One roommate is allowed to violate the terms of the agreement by introducing a non-contracted party, and all other parties concerned are expected to 'look the other way'. Yet they are trying to force future d-i-l to continue paying rents on a contract she's no longer party to at a residence she no longer resides in. lucy above said it quite well, she cannot be held 'hostage' . If it went to court, she would in all likelihood be held liable for unpaid rents up to the time of original contract expiration, probably lose her security deposit, but that is likely where it would stop. It's almost laughable that the landlord has essentially introduced a new contract with new terms (monthly now) and is insistent that current lessees 'release' her. There's nothing to release her from at this juncture, because she didn't agree to the new contract terms. It just doesn't work that way. Can you clarify the details for us as asked above? I have a few more thoughts to offer on your future d-i-l creating a paper trail, albeit after the fact, that might be enough to get the landlord to back down and see reason. (Landlord sounds like they're thinking is 'off' based on what you've supplied so far.) But it would help to have some blanks filled in.

Sounds like maybe the darker color thing mentioned above may also play into it. My 2001 Grand Cherokee ( factory am/fm/cd/casette player) will not recognize burned CDs. i am currently using my laptop with XP and have tried windows player, I-tunes and BurnerXP but haven't noticed any different results from any of that different software. After going thru about 30 cds burning at different speeds and formats, I finally got it to occasionally recognize one I burnt at around 4X using PCM .wav (uncompressed) format but to recognize and play I usually have to fast forward it thru a couple of songs while it is doing the initial read. Once it recognizes and starts playing then will usually play the whole CD but doesn't always work for whatever reason. I may try the label thing or try to find some of the "dark" cds to see if that matters. We have a 98 KIA witn an aftermarket cd player and it will play just about anything burnt to cd no matter format or speed.

Silver Quite interesting reading. I have thought about EX and how he must feel about DD, or any woman that has been in his life. I do understand the conceptual thinking behind the term "limerance". I had a man that I felt that way about once. I never told him, figuring that if he felt anything for me he would approach me. There were a few mixed signals, I thought but he never made an attempt that was something that I knew for sure showed he was interested in me. He had enough chances to do that and he didn't. He thought of me as a friend or sister I guess. Or he would have gone for a little "roll in the hay" if I would have. He even introduced me to a girlfriend that he began dating and ended up getting her pregnant and they later married. Ouch! With EX's past ( if what he has said is true ) he undoubtedly has great fear of rejection. Again, if what he says is true, he wanted my DD to stay with him, build a future with him and he wanted a family with us. There are too many things though that are negatives to the success of their relationship that he is completely out of touch with which makes me think that he has a break with normal thought processes. This is evident with other actions...his extensive lying and his criminal behavior. My DD did not want to marry or have children ( my goodness, she is only 20 ) and he did. Very much in fact. I don't know that she will ever change her mind but he had said that he would rather have had her and no kids than to not have her at all. I don't know that it would have been something he could have easily lived with though. The age difference is something that was too vast....11 years...when dealing with her age group. Had they met when she was in her 30's or 40's or older then it would not have been as big a deal. I am sorry for him when it comes to honest, heartfelt feelings that he might have had for my DD. The fact that he could install such fear ( and continues to do so ) and the fact that he has told so many lies negates all of that though. It sucks to be rejected. Our family histories have a lot to do with whether or not we can process the rejection in a healthy way. Most of us have been and some of us have stepped over a line while dealing with it that we cringe at after having healed a bit. It is important to teach our kids that when they deal with peers or a romantic interest people have a right to reject them. In the long run it is for the best. I don't know how much EX has control over when it comes to his emotions about the breakup. I am sorry that I can't talk to him. It just can't happen. I want him to get help and to go onto have a happy life. More importantly though I want him to leave my DD alone and let her move on. Thanks for the thread and the link Silversword.