Thanks for the feedback. The cabinets are mounted on top of the wood floor.

I agree with the point that removing base cabinets (and therefore countertops) and appliances comes with risk. I will check with the builder on their proposed process and make sure that they are taking all possible precautions to avoid further repairs.

Could removing the cabinets impact the installed tile backsplash? Any other watch outs?

Who mentioned quarter round? If the base cabinets aren't removed, new kickplates should cover any damage.

Could removing the cabinets impact the installed tile backsplash?

Anything could. But if the caulking to counter is removed it shouldn't. If it does, they are obliged to repair it.

I'm a builder and repairs are the name of the game in construction. And rather than get in discussions with the trades about every detail, I leave it to them to get it right.

Thanks for the feedback Worthy. My fear is that leaving the details to them will result in it not looking right.

My understanding is that kick plates can be done in the from of the cabinets, but what about the sides?

what about the sides?

If the flooring installer can't pull out the planks without damaging the cabinetry, possibly the side can be removed or the cabinetry lifted up. As I suggested above, it shouldn't be the client's job to figure out how the builder/trades can rectify their mistakes. It's not like any of these issues haven't arisen many times before.

It's not a big deal to use a multi tool to cut out the flooring right at the cabinets. You don't need to remove diddly.

Or, just negotiate to keep the floors at a discount. From what I can see of them, they are nice looking and woud work just fine.

it always bothers me when someone demands.
mistakes happen, such is life.
giving the contractor/floor co/installers a chance
to make it right...it is just reasonable.
seems like the responsible parties are in
agreement so far.

personally, 3/4" round doesn't set my blood
boiling. but that is just me.

best of luck

This post was edited by energy_rater_la on Thu, Dec 4, 14 at 13:45

I too wonder what floors are installed and what should have been? Perhaps there is a solution in between fully ripping them out and replacing.

I think the OP said that was soon as the floors were installed they were covered up to prevent any damage.

I would be unhappy w/ them leaving the wrong floors under the cabinets. You may want to remodel the kitchen in 10 years and if you do and your cabinets are not an exact match to your old cabinets you would also be forced to remodel the floors as well.

Our hardwood floors are under our cabinets and if we need to remodel or take out a cabinet for some reason, we would not be forced to also change all of the flooring on the first floor of our house...

There is the concept of serendipity. Where what you received is a better choice than what you originally wanted. Maybe roll with that?

Another vote for serendipity. Life is too short.

Just a clarification of my previous post. I didn't mean to sound heartless. We are at the drywall stage of a new build so I do understand the disappointment you must be feeling.

I should have added that your contractor sounds like a reasonable man; as you stated he agreed to your request to change out the floor. If there is anyway you can live with the floors you have now and negotiate a credit for another part of the job, you might have a win-win situation on your hands. And you will preserve your relationship with your contractor which, to me, would be paramount.

I am not sure, but it seems hard to believe that a contractor could handle the financial burden of pulling out and replacing cabinets, countertop, possibly backsplash and flooring. I would just caution you to think hard about your goals and the possible outcome of each scenario.

Well said Honu3421.

Not knowing what the nature of the material is, I can only suggest that
IF it is the kind that is installed with flooring cleats driven by a power nailer,

THEN the best thing to do is to remove the island, or there is virtually no room to swing the big hammer necessary to actuate the flooring gun. Which would mean that virtually all your flooring would need to be nailed with a small trim gun, which for a maximal traffic area like your standing space is inviting squeaking problems down the road.
The perimeter cabinets are less so.
If it is a type of material normally fastened by other means, then perhaps other remedies are in order.
Casey

I wonder what the floors look like,
as yet all we have seen is paper
covering the floor.

oh well...looks like op has left
the thread...

I wonder why no one, the OP, lifted up a piece of the paper to check the floors when they were initially installed? If it was my build, I would have done so. It's easy enough to do so in a low traffic area, re-tape it, and still protect the floors. It's unlikely that the cabinets were put in so soon after the floor that there was no time for this. I cannot imagine not doing so.

This post was edited by rrah on Sat, Dec 6, 14 at 9:19

"I think the OP said that was soon as the floors were installed they were covered up to prevent any damage"

I understand this, but *without *even *looking *at *them *even *once, *briefly *as *the *homeowner? This is the part I don't understand.

Looking at the enlarged pic, there is exposed flooring in the fridge alcove and DW space, and lots of other areas the ramboard missed. Plus, when the cabs went in the covering must have been taken up, because you don't fold ramboard out of the way like red rosin paper, etc..
Casey

pal....I agree.

The floors are similar color, but African tali vs. Acacia. We are not fans of the heavy grain of the tali. Certain sections look similar to the Acacia, but then you hit a very heavily grained board. It is not apparent until you can see a really big section of floor.

The fact that we didn't catch this until later is no reason for the builder to not make it right. They are in charge of quality and project management on the job. We are paying them to do this type of work.

Before the floors were installed, we had been approached about making a floor substitution to a chocolate maple floor to avoid a minor delay. The change would have saved us money and time. The look of that floor was closer to acacia than the tali they ended up installing. We said no to that request, accepting a project delay. So to find out that we accepted a delay, but got a floor we liked less and now have to figure out how this can be done without sacrificing quality or looks is quite frustrating.

I expect that they'll make us an offer to keep the floor(to avoid new materials and a ridiculous amount of labor). We're trying to figure out the $ that would prevent us from looking at the floors as the thing we had to settle for. Any ideas what it would cost to rip out 1000 sq ft of prefinished 3/4" hardwood?

Acacia is one of the most heavily grained woods that is currently available. I think your assessment of the flooring is off. What you received is actually much less grainy than what you planned. There is no way that your objection to these floors can be based on the acacia having less of a grain pattern. What is the real objection? The fact that they went cheaper and didn't fess up and credit the difference?

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I just googled the two floor types, and -- yes -- they're different, but not entirely different.

Personally, if it were my build, I'd be irritated -- no doubt I'd be irritated. But I'd be open to hearing a dollar figure from the builder, and I'd expect it to be a pretty high figure because this is a big mistake, and correcting it will cost him BIG. And whatever number he said, I'd ask for a bit more. And if it were an acceptable number, I'd take that compensation and put it behind me.

But I personally could live with the difference between these two floors. Remember, right now you're looking at JUST the floor. In the future, you'll cover it with furniture, rugs and other furnishings. It will be ONE PART of the house, and it'll be less visible than it is now.

Here is the installed floor.

Comparison of the installed floor(left) vs what we wanted(right).

I would take the discount and move on.

I like your pick better too, but not enough to damage the rest of the job

I absolutely agree you should get what you want, I have had a few similar mishaps myself. However, you want to make sure the fix doesn't compromise anything else. Seeing your pictures and the sample boards, I would take a big credit and splurge someplace else. If you wanted something that was substantially different I would say it was worth possible damage. I vote serendipity and splurge on something you had cut back on. The floors are lovely and although they are not what you wanted, they are at least in the same style. If they had put in knotty pine or something natural stained it would be more of a stark change.

Your sample board is not at all representative of what an acacia floor actually looks like. You really did luck into a case of serendipity if you prefer less grain! You would have been REALLY unhappy with an acacia installation.

I agree that just because you didn't catch this until later is a reason for you to have to accept it.

I just really don't understand why you didn't see the floors immediately after they were installed unless this is a long distance build. I can't imagine not closely inspecting every aspect of the project as it goes in, project manager or not.

I am probably biased because I don't like prefinished floors at all, but I don't see a big enough difference to take on the risk of damage to other elements.

In looking at the finished photo and your sample more, I think you might have gotten really lucky if you take that discount. Your actual floor looks very similar to your sample pick to me

Here are some examples of acacia in the darker stains. You can see that they are much grainier than the floor that you received. It was really hard to find pictures of acacia stained so dark as one of the selling features is the wild grain pattern. Most people don't go darker than a medium tone as they want to fature that wild grain.

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We've had acacia in our last house and we selected the floor after seeing it in a house. I can assure you that the look is exactly what we wanted.

My terminology may be confusing, but we prefer the the grain and how it is colored in the acacia.

Well color me confused then! You say you don't like the prominent grain, but then you say that you DO like the wild grain of the acacia? Can you explain further? Illustrate with some photos? I'd bet your builder is confused as well. That might even be the source of the incorrect flooring being used.

From the photos you posted in looks like the installed flooring is the floor you wanted (the one on the right).

This is a tough one. Based on the photos I see I would keep the floor.

Comparison of the installed floor(left) vs what we wanted(right).

What you are showing on the left is Elegance Wood Flooring Exotic Walnut, which is made from Acacia. If that is what is installed, you did get the Acacia you wanted.

Here is a link that might be useful: Elegance Wood Flooring brochure

The floor on the left is Elegance African Dusk. This is what was installed.

We selected Elegance Exotic Walnut (acacia).

But the floor on the left in the above picture says Elegance Exotic Walnut. (?)

Which one is actually which?

White label, on the left as posted, is African dusk. This is what is installed. We had signed off specifically on Exotic Walnut and were given the sample from our builder to use for matching other items. Ie, the mixup isn't over confusion on which is the right floor.

So I am going to meet with my builder to lay out the options, including specifics of how it will be done. Sounds like we need to discuss $ as well. Ballpark ideas on a reasonable settlement?. Material price was ~$5k.

Okay but in the Picture, There is a BROWN LABEL on the LEFT that says ELEGANCE EXOTIC WALNUT

and on the RIGHT is a WHITE LABEL that is illegible in the photo.

I don't think I am mixing up Left and Right. We can only know what is going on by what you say and that is not exactly the same as what the picture of the two samples is showing.

This post was edited by palimpsest on Sun, Dec 7, 14 at 14:29

pal, perhaps the confusion lies in the orientation of the photo. To me, on an iPad, your photo is upside down to the photo posted by the OP.

Get a 5K credit and move on. If a whole forum full of people are arguing about the differences between two almost imperceptibly different woods, it is seriously not going to matter at all in the long term after the furniture goes in. This is one of those mole hills that looks like a mountain because you are too close to the issue and too overly emotional to be objective about it.

I also see the different orientation on my phone vs computer.

Bottom line is the gain in visual difference will be minimal and the risk of damage high. In my book that is not likely to leave you satisfied either. I would want a 25-30% credit I think. No idea if that is realistic but that's a number I could live with. Whomever said it above was right, once you move all your things in the floor will be a small piece of a very large picture in your home. Keep us posted, let this post be a learning experience for future GWers.

Yes, it's on the left of my post. Again, there is no debate about whether the correct flooring was installed. Our builder agrees. The real question is the pros/cons of getting it changed and what is a reasonable settlement if we keep it.

I also see the different orientation on my phone vs computer.

Bottom line is the gain in visual difference will be minimal and the risk of damage high. In my book that is not likely to leave you satisfied either. I would want a 25-30% credit I think. No idea if that is realistic but that's a number I could live with. Whomever said it above was right, once you move all your things in the floor will be a small piece of a very large picture in your home. Keep us posted, let this post be a learning experience for future GWers.

The real question is the pros/cons of getting it changed and what is a reasonable settlement if we keep it.

Pros - The floor is done and you get to move on
African tali is a harder wood
The builder is happy

Cons - It is not the floor you wanted
Delay completion - If lucky, the delay is only while your GC orders and waits for the flooring to be delivered and then while the floor acclimates in the house as well as waiting for the other subs (cabinets maker, countertop maker, painters and plumber) to put everything back in place. If you are not so lucky, there will be further delays due to damage to the cabinets, countertops and appliances.
The builder is not happy and you end up with other issues where he may not see things your way.

Only you can determine if the pros outweigh the cons. There are always compromises to be made during a build. And, we are all human, mistakes happen.

Only you know how much this will bother you. if the difference between the two floors is so glaring to you and if you look at them and can only see that they are NOT what you wanted, then have them change them out. I personally think the installed floor looks wonderful and would gladly take the $ from the builder and use it to purchase something for the house.

I like the installed tone and grain .. FWIW

I think your flooring (installed) and kitchen are beautiful! I'd take the money.

ditto

Thanks guys/gals for the advice and compliments.