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roper_dee

Please Opine on My Allowances

Roper_Dee
9 years ago

Hello Forum Friends,

We are breaking ground on a new custom build next month and I wanted to get opinions on our allowances. I know that having less allowances is better than more, but we are moving quickly and really haven't had time to pick out all these specific items yet. We are willing to compromise some to stay within our allowances, but don't know if these are adequate or inadequate.

Specs:
- Texas
- 6600 square feet @ approx $190 psf (house only) -
- 6 full baths, 2 half baths
- Need approx 20,000 sq feet of sod per site plan; lot is ~0.6 acre

Allowances:
- Plumbing fixtures: $16,000
- Gutters: $5,000
- Lighting: $16,000
- AV Pre-wire: $6,000
- Entry door: $6,500
- General cabinetry: $35,000
- Slab counters: $28,000
- Appliances: $26,000 (we know we will go over a little on this one)
- General hardware package - pulls, knobs etc: $6,000
- Outdoor kitchen: $11,000
- Sprinkler: $4,500
- Grass: $6,000
- Wood fencing: $17,000
- Trees: $5,000
- Shrubs: $10,000
- Driveway gate for porte cochere: $8,000
- Mirrors: $3,500

Any/all views would be greatly appreciated.

This post was edited by Roper_Dee on Mon, Dec 22, 14 at 20:19

Comments (44)

  • HerrDoktorProfessor
    9 years ago

    Wow.
    Can't even wrap my head around 6600 square feet.

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago

    Low on everthing but countertops and appliances. For a house of that size with that many baths, it's horribly low on cabinets, unless you want builder grade site built hackery. Double that allowance at a minimum for decent quality basic cabinets equivalent to your apparent level of appliance selection. Cabinets are 40-50% of a kitchen remodel, and will be a similar figure % of the kitchen in new construction.

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you all so much.

    I somewhat share your skepticism, but...I have had extensive discussions with the builder on the cabinets and he has many, many examples of what we like. I know what sub he uses and they do nice work. He assures me that we can do flush inset with the detailing we like within the allowance - and I will certainly be holding him to it.

    This is probably one of the least expensive houses he he ever built.

    I think I can do the plumbing inside the allowance, but I know the lighting will be tough.

    Any additional thoughts would be welcome.

    This post was edited by Roper_Dee on Mon, Dec 22, 14 at 22:21

  • Oldbluemountainbeach.com
    9 years ago

    We are just finishing up our new build in the Florida Panhandle. 3200 sf. Mid to Upscale finishes:

    Plumbing fixture allowance: $9,000
    We ended up spending $6,000 for some very nice plumbing fixtures. Did a lot of sale shopping and price matching

    Lighting fixture allowance: $6,000
    We spent $9,000. If you want nice fixtures, you gotta pay!

    Cabinets: $18,000 Allowance
    $24,000 for nice semi custom would have been more realistic. We ended up spending $28,000 for full custom.

    Door hardware: $1,800
    This will get you Schlage. We went with Emtek for door hardware and kitchen pulls/knobs. $3,200 with a discount.

  • Aims
    9 years ago

    I live in Texas and my house is 100 per square foot as and 2,200 sq feet.

    We have 1,500 for hardware. We picked an Emtek handleset and Kwikset interior door handles (Build.com had a great prices on both.) We still need to buy our cabinet hardware but I found some hardware for about $3 each. I am hoping we can come under budget on this. We have tons of cabinets and build ins for the square footage that we have so I am sure we will have a couple hundred worth of those.

    Lighting is $3,500. I have bought less expensive lighting fixtures for the bathrooms. They will look nice, but won't be costing me $200 for each fixture! Just scouring around online and using ebates has been helpful and other websites also price match. Also, Ferguson Showroom has had really good prices on pretty much everything. If you really want to save money on something, you can get ceiling fans at good prices. We are going to have a nice ceiling fan in our family room, but our bedroom fans and our patio fans are pretty basic. They will serve their purpose in Texas and stay on most of the time :)

  • dekeoboe
    9 years ago

    somewhat share your skepticism, but...I have had extensive discussions with the builder on the cabinets and he has many, many examples of what we like. I know what sub he uses and they do nice work. He assures me that we can do flush inset with the detailing we like within the allowance - and I will certainly be holding him to it.

    Inset doors and drawers are usually more expensive than overlay doors. How do you plan on holding him to the allowance? The reason for an allowance, to shift the responsibility for costs from the builder to the owner.

  • kayakboy
    9 years ago

    What style of house is it? What type of windows are you looking at?

    How large are the bathrooms and kitchen? Where else are there cabinets? Master closet? How many sq feet of counter space? What surface materials do you like?

    what about the other exterior doors other than entry? Garage doors and openers?

    How fancy are you thinking about plumbing fixtures? One of the largest money savers our interior designer taught us was to be very selective where you spend your money on plumbing - kitchen and master bath and scrimp on secondary baths. She got us great looks by better design and not more expensive fixtures.

    Where is the tile allowance? Flooring allowance?

    Also, one of the mistakes we made going in was not asking explicitly what is in what allowance. For example, is the counter for the outdoor kitchen in the outdoor kitchen allowance or the counter allowance?

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago

    An allowance is not a fixed price bid. If you go over, YOU pay, not the builder. No way will you come in at that cabinet price without having some hack spraying bugs and dust ito the finish on site. TX builders are famous for using site built cabinets with crap finishes. It seems to be the only place around that does that kind of low quality and passes it off as ''custom''.

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    [deleted] - double post

    This post was edited by Roper_Dee on Mon, Dec 22, 14 at 23:21

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    - It's a french chateau style - stucco and cast stone
    - Master bath is irregular shaped but around 240 sq feet
    - Secondary baths are around 60 sq feet each
    - Kitchen is roughly 22 x 18 - probably 150 sq (ish) of counter in kitchen
    - Any white granite is fine, as long as doesn't look cheap

    General flooring allowances (we met the flooring showroom people and they told us this builder gets their best prices - whatever that means) - I know we will need to do some more compromising here

    (a) stone - ~7.50 psf material only
    (b) carpet - ~3.50 psf material only
    (c) wood - ~7.50 psf material and labor (we compromised here and did finish in place vs prefinish)
    (d) tile - ~5.00 to 6.50 psf material only

    Some details below from the specs - probably more than you wanted

    .Interior Doors
    - All door sizes will be per plan
    ï± Downstairs 8âÂÂ0â Tall, 2 Panel, solid core
    ï± Upstairs 8âÂÂ0â Tall, 2 Panel, solid core
    ï± Study 8âÂÂ0â Tall, French Doors ��" Stained or painted (size per plan), 3
    panels with clear glass.
    ï± Doors to M.Vestibule 8 foot Tall, Solid Double Doors Painted (size per plan)
    ï± Doors to int. Balcony 8 foot Tall, Solid Double Doors Painted (size per plan)
    ï± Finish Oil base (semi-gloss) enamel paint

    Exterior & Garage Doors
    ï± Main Entrance Door: Double Iron door w/glass (7 feet wide, 9 feet tall)
    ï± Sliders: Family Center - 4 panel sliding wall @ 6 feet per panel
    ï± Dining & Foyer 5080 Custom, eyebrow, paint grade, maple.
    ï§ Dining: Operable.
    ï§ Foyer: Fixed.
    ï± All other exterior doors Fiberglass (or as plan requires)
    ï± Garage Doors: Cedar Doors (painted finish)
    ï± Opener þ HP electric opener with remote - Key pad w/codes (2)
    ï± Garages One (1) Pedestrian 3080, 6 panel metal door in each garage.
    Two (2) doors total.
    ï± Gate at Porte Cochere: Single Wrought Iron gate, per plan. See allowance table.
    ï± Fence Wood & wrought iron, per HOA Standards. See allowance

    Trim Specifications
    ï± Downstairs Baseboards: Style: 1x8 MDF with Cap - TBD
    ï± Door Casing: Style: C-3511
    ï± Garage Baseboards: Style: B-218
    ï± Upstairs baseboards: Style: 1x6 MDF with Cap - TBD
    Crown Molding
    ï± Family Center 2 Stage (Per plan)
    ï± Kitchen Coffered Ceiling. Crown inside coffer
    ï± Morning Room Crown
    ï± Dining Room Coffered Ceiling. Crown inside coffer
    ï± Foyer 2 Stage...

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    Realistically there is not one specification on that list. If you do not set the specifications in stone with solid pricing for almost your major items at the very least your in for a world of disappointment and or HUGE overages, if you can call them overages because an allowance is basically a wild ass guess that what you pick is what he attempted to give your pricing for.

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes, I understand that there is no specificity in those items. It's just not reasonable for us to pick every single door, specific trim piece, baseboard, stone before we start - we don't have time for that.

    My instructions to the builder were give me two/three choices for every item we need to make a decision on. We will choose immediately and move on to the next item.

    We are not all that picky on most items - as long as it looks nice and isn't too far out of step with the rest of the house.

    I have a fair bit of trust in the builder. I have seen the work that his same subs do on other houses that around the same $ psf and it's very nice work (well, good enough for us).

    I certainly appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice

  • jackson2348
    9 years ago

    $190 PSF in Texas should get you a really beautifully finished house. Congratulations! Some notes.

    Many of these items should NOT be allowances at this point. Your fence and gate should be hard bids, as the dimensions on the site plan and style required by the hoa aren't likely to change through the course of construction. Gutters, prewire, entry door, and landscaping should also be hard bids.

    You need to know you can stay within the numbers presented by your builder. When bills rolled in here, our builder compared them to the bids and required justification for any discrepancies. It worked beautifully; we finished 4% over on an 800k build. Most of that overage was me choosing something more expensive than what was speced.

    As far as your numbers, I think your appliances and countertops should be pretty close, if your outdoor kitchen allowance includes appliances and countertop for outdoors. I think you should get a quote on these based on plans, although both of these probably will not be binding. I'd def want a quote to include in the contract.

    I'll defer to your builder on cabinets, we use site built here as well and mine are beautiful. All of your flooring is likely low; you probably don't want this huge beautiful shell with cheap looking wood or tile.

    Hardware is prob low. We were at 7800 for ~4500 sf. We chose Baldwin knobs, again you'll want something that looks nice and feels solid in your hand. It would be hard to quote this in advance, because you don't know numbers on knobs, pulls, hinges, drawer glides etc at this point. Lighting is prob close, that's about what we spent minus the cans. Don't forget fluorescents for garage and flood or other lights for outside.

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    As others have mentioned, low. You'll easily eat up a 20% contingency fund on the inaccuracy here. I hope you have more than that in reserve in case there are functional changes that need to be addressed. There always is.

    Site built cabinets. Um, yeah. Nope. You simply cannot get a high quality finish on the usual builder site built. Not to mention the usual construction deficiencies. They usually look mostly OK. Looks are important. But, functionality and durability more so. That's where site built fail.

    You want a catalyzed varnish. Not paint. With a catalyzed top coat. It would be a giant red flag if the cabinet finishing is subbed out to the painter. You want the finishing process to be in a clean room, with no construction debris. By someone who only does cabinets. It should take about 10 days to finish a kitchen with one man doing the work and 10 hour days. Lots and lots of sanding, and dust removal,. Several coats, with sanding in between.

    You want adjustable shelving. Wall and base. You want individual boxes to constrain the content spillover. Not one long single box with a fixed shelf and no back. You want Blum or Grass drawer glides, full extension, soft close, bottom mount. Not Chinese knockoffs. You want the same brand for the door hinges, with the integral soft close. 6 way adjustable. If you want concealed hinges.

    If you want knife hinges, be sure that you understand that they aren't really adjustable, and the clearance between doors and the face frames can be inconsistent with site built, as well as be "gappier" than with shop built. I see awful examples on Houzz constantly. Usually from the TX, OK, KS areas. For some reason, builders there just don't understand the details that make quality cabinets and are more about the lowball bid than having a quality product.

    If they do stained alder, watch out! It's usually blotchy as hell and they'll tell you it's "normal". Not in the hands of an actual quality finisher its not!

    Good luck! You're going to need it. :) I just finished a whole house redo with cabinets from a true custom line, and just the kitchen was more than your allowance for the entire house. Omega does beautiful quality, with butter like finishes and nothing but the highest quality hardware. I suggest you get some quotes at a similar quality level to see what it would cost you. Really, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and if something is as cheap as your allowance, there IS a reason.

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you very much for the information. It sounds like you managed to construct a beautiful house and come in reasonably close to budget.

    On some of the items, like front doors, we know we won't even be using the full allowance as we already found one we like since we signed the contract. Also, I specced out almost all of the lighting last night and we are around $2k over, including all interior and exterior lighting (minus cans).

    Outdoor kitchen does include appliances and counters. I already sent the appliance/component list to the builder and we have ~$8000 to do 40 square feet of countertop, the understructure and hard coat stucco it, which seems reasonably do-able (to me at least) under the budget.

    We have already made a number of "value engineering" changes to the plans/design and know we will need to continue to be flexible to meet our cost expectations.

  • galore2112
    9 years ago

    Builders here in Dallas advertise "site built" as if it is higher quality. As in custom hand built and finished. Soft paint over MDF complete with dust nibs and brush stroke marks is apparently better than a clean room catalyzed hard coat ðÂÂÂ.

  • Michelle
    9 years ago

    I agree that the flooring finished are low. Very low. $7.50 for a site finished wood floor? Not possible in my neck of the woods. What wood species are you hoping for?

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Michele1973

    I am not wedded to any particular species of wood - oak, pine, hickory or anything else. As long as it looks nice - stain color is more important to me to fit in with the decor.

    You can get pine or oak finished and installed for 6 to 9 bucks a foot in my area.

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    Site finished wood floor in this area(Charlotte) runs around $6/sf. Go to several of your local cabinet builders and look at what they can offer. 35k is ALLOT of money for those cabinets. I built a 4000sf house a few years ago and the kitchen was 'huge' including large island, plus the cabinets in MB and jack & jill for just over 12k! And that price included installed by them. The big box stores were quoting close to 30k and I got 'more' options with the local builder and true custom cabs!
    Do NOT use MDF for baseboards, only for crown. If you do, they will look like &*&^%& in a few years, they dent 'very' easy.
    How much counter top do you that needs granite/solid? 28k is ALLOT of money. At $50/sf that would be over 560sf!!

    hs.....every time I see you post.....you must live in a very,very, very high end area where costs are thru the roof!!

    ditto what mw said.

    This post was edited by robin0919 on Tue, Dec 23, 14 at 19:51

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you very much, Robin0919.

    I will look into switching out the MDF baseboards with a harder wood. I had 10 inch MDF baseboards in my old house and had no problems or dents with them after 7 years (even with young kids) but it never hurts to investigate an alternative.

  • CCB3
    9 years ago

    Are you sacrificing size for quality? MDF has no business in a house that size. Anywhere. I can assure you, at those prices, you're getting cheap materials. We only have a 1500sq ft and we would have raised holy hell if our builder used MDF at any time during construction for anything.

    If that is your allowances for finishes, I don't even want to imagine what quality materials the builder is planning on using to build the actual house with.

  • mrspete
    9 years ago

    I am also wondering if you're sacraficing quality for size. Your allowances look quite low for a house of this size.

    6600 square feet? My current house is 2400, and we don't use all of it.

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Look, anything is possible, but most of his houses are significantly larger and more expensive than ours. We are using the same subs he uses on more expensive builds. I have also seen the spec sheets for some of the other houses and other than some more exotic finishes, exotic surfaces, mosaics etc, they are pretty similar to ours spec wise.

    We have a challenge ahead of us, we know. We have been to the flooring places with the interior designer and have seen choices in our rough price range. Not everything we like of course but enough that we would be happy with.

    We have spent probably 20 hours with the builder himself just in design pre-plan meetings and he has pictures of exactly what we want for almost every aspect of the house. He assures us it can be done to our satisfaction. Time will tell, of course.

    There are some items we just are not compromising on - framing for instance is 140,000 and that is high for Texas.

    Some allowances also seem high, so I think we have some play - ex: 300 linear feet of board on board cedar fence installed, with all end caps and trim and stained is under $12,000 vs $17,000 allowance - sure we can put that and any others we find to good use.

    Certainly appreciate everyone's feedback. It good to hear experience and advice from so many knowledgeable forum members.

    This post was edited by Roper_Dee on Tue, Dec 23, 14 at 21:11

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    9 years ago

    Sounds like you're happy with your allowances and are confident that you CAN find materials that you will be happy with for less than the amount of the allowances. You are definitely NOT LISTENING to any advice to the contrary. Rather than consider the advice you're getting, you keep arguing. So...why did you post asking for opinions in the first place????

    If you've spent so much time with the builder and "he has pictures of exactly what [you] want for almost every aspect of the build..." then why don't you incorporate those pictures into your contract documents. Simply stick a number on the picture that shows the dining room chandelier you like and specify that chandelier - or one of similar quality, style and price - will be installed in the dining room. Do the same thing for all the rest of your light fixtures, plumbing fixtures, tile, wood flooring, carpeting, doors, windows, pulls, knobs, towel bars, etc. Then insist that your builder for a "turn key" price with all the allowances taken out and all those items specified. That will make it his job then to figure out what those items will cost and to price his bid accordingly. I can guarandamtee ya that the price will go way way up because you are being low-balled on the allowance amounts for too many things. But, I'm sure you KNOW better so, good luck with your build. And please don't come crying here when you discover that your cabinetry is going to run you $60K instead of $35K.

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    9 years ago

    Sounds like you're happy with your allowances and are confident that you CAN find materials that you will be happy with for less than the amount of the allowances. You are definitely NOT LISTENING to any advice to the contrary. Rather than consider the advice you're getting, you keep arguing. So...why did you post asking for opinions in the first place????

    If you've spent so much time with the builder and "he has pictures of exactly what [you] want for almost every aspect of the build..." then why don't you incorporate those pictures into your contract documents. Simply stick a number on the picture that shows the dining room chandelier you like and specify that chandelier - or one of similar quality, style and price - will be installed in the dining room. Do the same thing for all the rest of your light fixtures, plumbing fixtures, tile, wood flooring, carpeting, doors, windows, pulls, knobs, towel bars, etc. Then insist that your builder for a "turn key" price with all the allowances taken out and all those items specified. That will make it his job then to figure out what those items will cost and to price his bid accordingly. I can guarandamtee ya that the price will go way way up because you are being low-balled on the allowance amounts for too many things. But, I'm sure you KNOW better so, good luck with your build. And please don't come crying here when you discover that your cabinetry is going to run you $60K instead of $35K.

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I appreciate everyone's advice and you have given me much to think about, one somewhat condescending post excepted.

    Seems like we are low on some items. Others maybe only seem low because people have very exacting expectations and/or live in a much higher cost area. Others are positing pricing (wood floor is way low) that are directly contradicted by the experiences of other posters. That is hardly ignoring advice, but I get it.

    I am more than willing to report back how we came out on a per item basis, no matter if I was right or way, way off. I am in no way afraid of the truth.

    Thank you all again for your thoughts; they are much appreciated and valued.

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    Roper_dee, it wasn't my home. Sorry to give that impression. I'm KD, and that's just one of the most recent projects that I've done. Cabinets only, no counters or install labor.

    Whole home projects that I've been involved with range the price gamut. I've done them under 10K for modest entry level homes, and over 100K for upscale luxury projects. Mid range projects generally run 30-50K for a medium sized home. Your home is obviously an upscale larger home, and while I could certainly fill the house with builder grade cabinetry for your budget, it would not be of a quality that would be appropriate to the home's size and scale.

    I've been in design for 30 years, and have specialized in K&B for the last 11 years. From my experience, for the number of baths and the size of the kitchen, and the level of the build, your cabinetry allowance is criminally low.

  • CCB3
    9 years ago

    If I was in your shoes and I'm building what sounds like a beautiful custom house, I would NOT want to settle with being given a small selection, not liking most of it and then just settling with the best of the worst.

    We just moved in a month ago in our new custom build. I can assure you that you WILL regret just settling with something because that is all you could afford that's in your price range.

    Instead of settling with the best of the worst, will you have an option to go a completely different direction and choose something completely different that you actually want instead of having to settle for?

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    MDF is excellent for crown. It's outta the way and it comes in 'many' shapes. Plus it weighs less than half of real wood and allot easier to cope(carpenter will love that as it's installed overhead) and the last time I looked it was half the price of real wood. Plus it doesn't shrink or expand like real wood opening up gaps.

  • Roper_Dee
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Live_wire_oak: Certainly appreciate your experienced advice.

    CCB3 - If I gave the impression that we were unhappy with our choices, that isn't the case. The only thing we really wanted that we did not fit into the budget was complete floors and walls in chenille white limestone in the master bath. We still may even do it. This isn't our forever house but why not...

    Overall, we just initially decided that this cost plus the lot was the most $$ was thought was reasonable to allocate to a house. If it's not enough, we either need to up the budget or build a smaller house - though if we go too much smaller it will be harder to sell vs the neighborhood.

    Thanks again.

  • houses14
    9 years ago

    Robin0919,

    I agree with Robin0919 about those prices and materials.
    Was just signed my contract and grading will started next week.
    Brick 4300SF (5 Full baths + 1 basement full bath) + 2116SF (unfinished basement). No MDF in my home even cabinets.

    Also, I have southern yellow pine #1 for lumbers, with select and better oak wood floors

    Robin0919:
    I am HIckory, could you tell me who did your custom cabinets and countertops? I am looking for quartz countertops with dark stained hard maple solid wood (No china made).
    Please email or PM me. Thanks!

    This post was edited by houses14 on Wed, Dec 24, 14 at 2:11

  • mrspete
    9 years ago

    This isn't our forever house but why not . . .
    . . . though if we go too much smaller it will be harder to sell vs the neighborhood . . .

    Reacting to these two comments: To place yourself in an ideal selling position, you want to own the smallest house in the nicest neighborhood. Why? Because the value of the less expensive houses is "brought up" by the larger houses. And the opposite is true: If you own the largest house in the neighborhood, the other houses are "dragging you down".

  • kayakboy
    9 years ago

    Do you have a rough estimate on flooring sq feet tile/wood/carpet?

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    houses....I tried to get them recently and all I get is that their phone is temp. disconnected. When the economy imploded, allot of the subs went out of business. I have heard that they are still building cabs with a skeleton crew for some local builders. Obviously they are only using their cell phone these days. I'll see what I can find out. You're not that far away and they do 'excellent' work. I'm actually in Belmont and so are they.

  • cardinal94
    9 years ago

    There are a lot of detailed opinions in this post. I won't even go into that kind of detail. Just want to tell you that you should be prepared to learn some things in this process. I don't know what they will be. For us, we spent several years designing and planning. We sourced a lot of things outside of the contract. Some of the allowances ended up okay, others we went over. When it came to change orders, we ended up double over what the estimates were the builder gave us. This was mostly labor.

    Just be prepared for parts of your planning to come unraveled and difficult choices to be made.

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    And with that many allowances more than the usual 20% for the inevitable overages and ooops......

  • Cross-EyedCat
    9 years ago

    Dee,

    For reference, we are right in the middle of our third (and LAST!) build in an area where most of the homes are MUCH larger and more expensive than ours. $200/SF is a low number here. Our home is less than half the size of yours, with 3 BR, 2.5 baths. We are in NC in a gated country club community with a large proportion of retirees, both full-time and part-time residents.

    We spent a huge amount of time and energy sourcing our plumbing fixtures (including eBay) --- and we still spent $10,000 on kitche, laundry and 2.5 baths. Granted, we did use colors other than white for the first time, and finishes other than chrome. If you are happy with white and chrome (which I was for every previous home), you *might* be able to do it for $16,000, but likely not if you use the suppliers your builder works with.

    Cabinetry -- hollysprings and livewireoak are both pros in this area. They know what they are talking about. My kitchen alone exceeded your allowance (fully custom by Miller Cabinet in OH, which was comparable to Plain & Fancy in terms of pricing) and then there are the baths, laundry, DH's study and GR entertainment center ....total is around $75K which is more than 10% of the entire build. Cabinets were the single most expensive line item for us. Granted, the entertainment center (12 feet long, VERY specialized, all cherry) is in the $18K range, but still... I think you should be prepared for the possibility that you will want to spend double or triple the allowance.

    MANY years ago, we bought a home in Charleston, SC with site-built cabinetry. It was truly abysmal. Nice neighborhood and the rest of the home was OK, but the cabinets were a (bad) joke. The builders there all bragged about their site-built custom cabinets, too. It seems to be a regional thing.

    Site-finished oak flooring here is in the $7 range; we are getting 2200sf of rift/quartersawn oak for that.

    I'm sorry that you feel that folks here are being negative - -- they really are just trying to help you avoid problems down the road. As has been pointed out above, there is NO downside to the builder if he gives you a small allowance. When you exceed it, YOU will pay (or switch to something that is not what you want). Have you visited some of his finished homes, actually touched the cabinetry, and talked with his customers? I

    Also, as MrsPete said -- the BEST position to be in is to be the smallest and/or least expensive home in a given neighborhood. The WORST thing is to be the biggest and most expensive. Trust me, I've been in that situation and waited 3 years to sell....

    Best of luck to you!!! You can be sure that everyone here offers their personal experience with the best of intentions.
    Susan

  • jammu2
    9 years ago

    At the risk of being redundant (sorry in advance if this has been mentioned) you have way too many allowances. This is a recipe for paying way more than you expected. Your cabinetry allowance seems quite low. Otherwise plumbing as well: it's hard to comprehend how 6 full and two half baths will be only 16K. You maybe can do it but you might be surprised at the compromises you will be making.

    Good luck!

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    houses....when I click on your name it doesn't give me the option to e-mail you.

  • mrspete
    9 years ago

    ... Otherwise plumbing as well: it's hard to comprehend how 6 full and two half baths will be only 16K. You maybe can do it but you might be surprised at the compromises you will be making ...


    We had some plumbing problems lately, and I had my kids' tub removed /replaced with a same-sized walk-in shower. My bill was $2600 for labor and plumbing materials -- that covered a new (basic) shower head, a new poured shower pan, grout, skinny granite ledge and new shower doors. I paid for the tile separately. A shower-over-tub would've been slightly more expensive.

    My shower looks GREAT, and when we build, I want everything in our bathroom to be this quality.

    Admittedly, part of that cost was for pulling out the old tub and surround out . . . but if you assume that HALF was for installation of the new shower, you'd be looking at 1300 x 6 showers . . . or 7800 /roughly half your budget just for showers. And remember, I paid for the tile separately.

  • burbmomoftwo_gw
    9 years ago

    I've been looking at building for some time (1 1/2 years +), and was like many when I started....I'll have a Wolf Range, Sub Zero Fridge, etc. until the reality of the costs of that were seen. If you can afford that, that's great, but as my husband says 'is that Wolf making Mac and Cheese any better than a GE?' :)

    The last time I was in our custom appliance store was 10/2013, so I figured I'd go see what my money buys today. Picked out a variety of items, and this kitchen appliance list came in just under $12,000:

    - Thermador 36" 6 Burner Range Top
    - Faber Insert Range Hood (add a wood surround)
    - GE 240V Advantium Oven
    - 30" GE Profile Double Oven (Top Convection)
    - Bosch Panel-Ready 3rd Rack Dishwasher
    - GE 26 Cu Ft French Door Fridge

    This list of appliances fits the kitchen plan I've had, and seems like a good mix. I've not used an Advantium Oven, but it seems very nice, but might be over kill for use as a Microwave.

    I think with this, the biggest 'sacrifice' is the refrigerator - not a built in, not as large as I might like (The new Samsung 4 door unit looks amazing), and a unit I could easily walk into a Home Depot and buy.

    I could save a few dollars with GE Oven, or all Kitchen Aid appliances, but it seems that an 'allowance' for appliances is going to need to be close to $10,000 to really get everything you want, at least here with Midwest pricing. With the original posters $26,000 allowance, I'm sure I could hit that if I went with the Sub Zero, better Wolf Rangetop, etc.

  • bird_lover66
    9 years ago

    I would build a much smaller house with nicer finishes. "Much smaller" will still allow for a very nice house, maybe 3500 to 4000 square feet.

    Then, when you go to sell, someone who wants a nice house in an upscale neighborhood but can't afford the price of the larger houses or doesn't want to maintain such a large house is going to snatch your house in a flash - assuming it is built well and wasn't done on the cheap. :(

    I think you are making a terrible mistake, but you did ask for advice. Those allowances are a nightmare.

  • Zoe52
    9 years ago

    We are building a 4500 square foot home in a gated community in the coastal plains of NC. It is a million dollar home.

    We cannot compare our cabinetry to yours at all bc our builder provides custom cabinetry from his own shop. This also includes his trim. However we paid him already for his basic provisions in our home when we started. mostly this is for interior and exterior doors, trim, cabinetry, garage doors, interior plumbing ( we haven;t yet picked out hardware or cabinet pulls)

    Our allowances for the remainder however are crappy and yours and some of the others above sound better to me:

    Here are ours:
    12k for appliances
    $9,400 for all exterior plumbing (including valves and drains) for 3 1/2 baths kitchen wet bar and laundry room (all interior plumbing the builder provides)
    7k for lighting (builder provides interior can lights and exterior lighting)
    $ 3.50 per square foot for tile (We are going to be charged extra to install certain tiles.. marble for instance is more to install due to floor prep)
    $4.00 per square foot for any Karastan rugs we buy.. includes an 8 lb. pad for exercise, bonus room and a back stair well
    $65 per square foot allowance for granite.
    On our brick allowance ] we were never given a price... but it was basically builder's grade brick and so was the grout (plain grey mortar anything we picked over that was over.

    We had a stone accent on the front of the house that goes two stories and the same in the great room for our fireplace. We paid 15k for all the stone as an extra even before we built but then we were charged $2k over that after it was installed. And it was not even real stone, it was cultured ledgestone. He had priced materials at 1k for a 15k job.

    We are allowed only 4 paint colors in the home at builders cost. Then all other colors are $200 more plus extra labor (not sure how much yet) if the ceilings are not painted white.

    In fact we were not given total allowances on a lot of our build (plumbing for one) but were given singular allowances on some things and had to ask about other things.

    So far we have had to pay extra on everything we have put into our home... including having any color on the windows.

    At this point we are currently in wallboard and can't wait to see our overages on the remainder of our home. At the rate we are going our 1 million dollar home will be 1 million and a half by the time we are done!

    We are already being told we need to bring in more fill in the back yard and to sod all the way up to the pond behind our home will be extra. Can't wait to see his bill on that one.

    So at least you have total numbers to work with. We decided to keep certain things down like rugs, lighting and some plumbing fixtures so we can change them out later, if needbe. I have drawn the line on tile and decorative glass bc I don't want to change them later on.

    This post was edited by zoe52 on Sat, Jan 17, 15 at 17:57