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sirraf69

Please Help Leak Under Window

sirraf69
9 years ago

Building a new home and I have a leak under one window. The water is coming out on the subfloor. I noticed the leak before the roof was on, so I assumed that was the reason. After the roof, I didn't notice the leak after rains, except today. We did have a hard blowing rain yesterday. The exterior is bricked and all shingles are on. Any suggestions where this could be coming from? I have attached a photo. Thanks for any input.

Comments (46)

  • tibbrix
    9 years ago

    Wow. Not good. Get your GC to fix that, pronto, and be there when he does. Something wasn't installed correctly, probably a window.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks. I had talked to my framer, which installed the windows. He suggests it might be because I hadn't caulked the gap between the window and brick. I understand that needs to be done, but I was thinking there shouldn't be a leak anyway.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago

    that is bs.
    flashing seals windows, not caulk.

    better the window leak now so that trades
    are still on site. determine what is leaking,
    and correct it.
    I'd want to see how they installed
    the window...flashing methods & materials.
    very specific install directions are on every window..
    just waiting for someone to actually read them.

    do you have pics of windows before the brick
    was installed? bricks are porous & get wet all
    the way through quickly. it is the weather resistant
    barrier under the brick...& flashing that keeps water
    out of the walls.

    I'd be questioning the install on all of the windows
    & testing them for water leakage.

    caulk isn't a fix on windows.

    pictures?

    best of luck.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The thing is I trust my framer very much. I used the Huber Zip system and my framer used the Zip tape as recommended for flashing tape around windows and on window sill. He also caulked behind nailing flange on all sides except bottom. I have attached a photo of the house with windows installed. May have to zoom to see detail. The leaking is in the room with the twin window to the right of the porch.

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    ditto what er said.

  • rollie
    9 years ago

    Not seeing a sill flashing or pan flashing of any kind on either of the double windows.

    Depending on caulking as a long term fix is not in your best interest.

  • rollie
    9 years ago

    Not seeing a sill flashing or pan flashing of any kind on either of the double windows.

    Depending on caulking as a long term fix is not in your best interest.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    "I had talked to my framer, which installed the windows. He suggests it might be because I hadn't caulked the gap between the window and brick. I understand that needs to be done, but I was thinking there shouldn't be a leak anyway."

    I just installed 5 impact windows and 2 doors. They were watertight when we left the job as his should have been. If my name is on it, it doesn't leak. End of story.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    "I had talked to my framer, which installed the windows. He suggests it might be because I hadn't caulked the gap between the window and brick. I understand that needs to be done, but I was thinking there shouldn't be a leak anyway."

    I just installed 5 impact windows and 2 doors. They were watertight when we left the job as his should have been. If my name is on it, it doesn't leak. End of story.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So does everyone think this leak is coming from around the window? If it is, what would be involved to fix it now since the brick has been put on and it has been drywalled? Thanks to everyone for their responses.

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    Could also be the ''rooflets'' over the window. Those don't appear to have any flashing at all in the pic. Any penetration through the drainage plane needs to be flashed.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago

    take brick off. fix the flashing.

  • klem1
    9 years ago

    Realisticly noone can say for certain after only seeing the picture. It is often difficult to find when one has access to the house. I agree that odds are on a flashing mistake but it doesn't have to be the window. I also agree that caulk is not the answer but that's what will be done unless you watch them. Is that a step between shingles on small gable and main roof? If so that is odd and one place to inspect.

  • jdez
    9 years ago

    Also, make sure there are weep holes in the brick for the water to go out after a rain.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the replies. As far as the flashing, I'm not sure why it's not showing. I remember him putting sill flashing on. There is weep vents around entire perimeter of house. It's not that I don't trust my framer. Known him for a long time and he has excellent reputation. I realize things happen to the best of them.

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    Just because there is window flashing doesn't mean it's working. If the flashing is not sloped towards the exterior and there's no backdam, driving rain might still penetrate and cause the leak.

    As mentioned earlier, missing caulking around the windows is an unlikely cause, as water entering that way should just drain down the sheathing and out the weepholes.

    Check that there is flashing at the bottom of the brick courses, though it's hard to imagine any competent mason forgetting such a basic step.

    The penetration of the drainage layer could also be from further up as mentioned by others.

    To help narrow down the source, try reproducing the condition by spraying water at the suspected leakage points. Also, next time it rains, go outside and look at what's happening.

    This could even be a roof leak from the top roof or that second inner gable if it's not flashed properly.

    This post was edited by worthy on Sat, Dec 27, 14 at 11:39

  • renovator8
    9 years ago

    A leak like this is usually from bad sill flashing but because it is only at the center between the windows I suspect it might be from bad head flashing or both.

    Show us a photo of the exterior.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I originally thought it was a roof leak because I would see water in that spot each time it rained. I chalked it up to not having shingles on or tar paper. Once shingles were on, no leaks even after some heavy rain. This is first time I've seen the the water since shingles. There is no issues with any of the other windows. I hope it is a roof issue since the brick has already been put on.

    I only had the one photo of exterior before the brick. I didn't tske any close ups.

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    Any pictures with the brick on?

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Here is one with brick. I would have to take a close up if that's needed.

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    Need several close ups.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It's definitely coming through the window. I sprayed water on the window for several minutes. Once I sprayed around the bottom, the leak appeared. Talked to my framer, and he's not ruling out the possibility of a faulty window. He did flash on the sill as I had thought. This time though the water came all the way to run down the outside of drywall. Not sure if that's because I put a hose to it. I have attached a pic.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Pic of outside of window.

  • renovator8
    9 years ago

    Take the photos at an angle and show a corner so we can tell the slope of things. I suspect water can penetrate that sill brick and some part of the sheathing below it is not flashed properly so water cannot get back out and finds its way into the interior.

    Also post a wall section (if you don't have one, make your contractor draw one) or construction photos so we can see how the wall was built. Is the brick shelf below the floor level?

    Without better information we can only guess which is unlikely to be helpful.

    This post was edited by Renovator8 on Sun, Dec 28, 14 at 18:31

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    faulty window

    The need for window flashing is based on the premise that all windows will eventually leak and the water needs a route out and away. Hence window flashing that is sloped to the exterior and preferably with a backdam, though the latter step is usually not taken.

    As implied by renovator8 above, there could be some blockage between the sheathing and brick that defeats the working of the drainage plane. (Too bad the masons didn't also use brick paper rather than depending on the Zip.) Redundancy is your best defence.

    As well, I don't see--at least in the pictures you have posted--either throughwall flashing or weepholes under the windows.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Window Leaks aren't necessrily Window Failures

    This post was edited by worthy on Mon, Dec 29, 14 at 18:23

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Here is a pic of the window from an angle.

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    How about straight on, close up sill, head and then back up just far enough to get the entire window. The pics so far do not enable anyone to tell much of anything.

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    The brick sill appears not to be sloped to the exterior. The slope should very noticeable, at least 1 in 6.

    As well--at least in the photos you have posted so far--I don't see flashing or weepholes below the windows.

    See illustration below.

    This post was edited by worthy on Mon, Dec 29, 14 at 18:15

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    "Not sure if that's because I put a hose to it."

    I don't care if you put a fire hose to it, it shouldn't leak.

    I doubt the window is faulty. I'm betting on faulty flashing details/installation. The framer may be the nicest guy and the best contractor, but if he installed the windows, he's on the hook.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The brick does have a slope, but not as much as in that last illustration. The framer did say he could cut the window out and re-install. I'm just wondering how that would work since it would have to be installed like a replacement window since the brick is on.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    9 years ago

    If you don't want a red tag from inspection, your window flashing will look like this in southern Florida. Notice the Red Guard on the jamb? It extends under the flashing.

    The pitch is obvious as worthy has noted.

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    Pulling he window and reinstalling like a replacement window will not do a thing for the brick not properly installed and may increase the likely hood of leaks.

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    Pulling [t]he window and reinstalling like a replacement window will not do a thing for the brick not properly installed

    True and nothing for damaged sheathing or a block somewhere below. But it will at least allow the window to be flashed properly.

    Even removing a section of brick is not that much of a deal.
    ***
    Nice flashing! Even copper.

  • renovator8
    9 years ago

    There is little reason to flash a window sill twice. Grace Perm-A-Barrier flexible wall flashing has been the preferred flashing for brick cavity walls in commercial construction for 30 years. You can recognize it by its bright green color.

    A brick rowlock sill is obviously very porous and must be steeply sloped to keep water from entering the cavity during a heavy/windy rain. If the low sloped sill has no drip groove it will also draw water into the cavity from below the sill brick. If the sill must be low sloped it is better to use a continuous cast stone with a cast drip.

    In this situation I can see no other solution than removing a foot of brick on all sides and down to the brick shelf and flashing the window properly.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Perm-A-Barrier

    This post was edited by Renovator8 on Tue, Dec 30, 14 at 0:07

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    If the sill must be low sloped it is better to use a continuous cast stone with a cast drip.

    Every decision has consequences in building. After a few years, water damage will be evident under all the windows, first likely as efflorescence.

    In this situation I can see no other solution than removing a foot of brick on all sides and down to the brick shelf and flashing the window properly.

    The question is whether the OP will bite the bullet when he/she is also the diy gc? I'm not taking odds!

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I appreciate everyone's input on this. Gives me an idea of what is wrong.

    Worthy, I'll do what I have to do to get it fixed.

  • avossohouse
    9 years ago

    We have this type of leak too. From behind the Sheetrock and on to the subfloor. The GC removed all interior Sheetrock around the window. Still no idea. A few days ago I stepped on two stacked paint cans and noticed our transom glass and the frame around it wasn't attached properly just by a millimeter on one side. I'm guessing that's our culprit. Hopefully. No one else looked there. I'm the shortest by 10". Good luck.

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Update, It ended up being the window itself is leaking. I narrowed it down by caulking the perimeter of the window first, and once again got out the water hose. I sprayed in the middle of the window for just a minute and it started leaking. Guess this means a little chat with the window company.

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    Windows always leak, now or later. The point of flashing is to provide a route for the water coming in through the window to leave the wall without damaging it. Replacing or repairing the window without addressing the flashing defects is a short-term cure.

  • BrianKnight
    9 years ago

    Agreed! Swap out the window without addressing the pan flashing and its just kicking the can down the road. I wonder what other surprises are in store for the future owners.

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    Was the window put in 'square'?

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It is the window mullion that is leaking. Where the two windows were joined at factory, it wasn't sealed properly.

  • robin0919
    9 years ago

    How do they plan to repair?

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    That is what I'm waiting to hear from the supplier. He is getting in contact with the manufacturer. I'm assuming replacement. Not unless they have some way of repairing it while installed.

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    Don't bet on replacement. They will probably partially pull it and caulk the hell out of it if your not watching!! What brand window? Is is a zero mull or is there an actual joining strip?

  • sirraf69
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    millwork,
    It is a Wincore window. There is a joining strip, or I think that is what you mean. There is a previous pic on here that shows where the two windows join, if that helps.