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daneish09

Plan Error in My Favor

Daneish09
9 years ago

Yesterday, I was at the job site talking with the Construction Manager. I asked when the playroom (which was an addition to the plan) doors were going to be put in. He went down looked at the plans and starting making phone calls to get the doors put in. He then called the property manager to note the mistake and he was told that doors shouldn't be put in there that they are an option. He showed me the plans and they are on the plan the plan that was submitted to the county and that we agreed on at the pre-construction meeting.

I went back to talk to the property manager and he said that he told us that they were options and he knows he did because most people want doors on the playroom. We were not told, but sure enough if you look hard enough you can see that the doors are ever so slightly dashed. Had we known that the doors were not included we would have factored the extra $720 into the price of the playroom.

The only other place on the plan where there are optional double doors are going into the office. By that on the plan those doors are dashed and next to them say "Opt. Door". At that place it is clear it is an option and in the price sheet all it lists is double doors where there are none and the playroom doesn't explicitly state no doors included.

But either way they doors are on our approved plans so should the builder honor those plans? Also, are they obligated to honor those plans? His argument would be that if something was wrong like they over charged me that I would expect them to reduce my bill. That is true, but if something was missing from the plan I wouldn't expect them to add it at this point (2 weeks from closing).

One final note. My appraisal came back like $250 over contract price. So I kind of wanna say to him ok, lets do the door then we wont get through underwriting.

Thanks.

This post was edited by Daneish09 on Tue, Dec 16, 14 at 10:04

Comments (34)

  • HerrDoktorProfessor
    9 years ago

    I think the appraisal is your leverage in this situation. If they were on the plan then the appraisal was done assuming they'd be there. I'm sure the bank is going to require a final walk through by the appraiser to confirm that all expected work and finishes are as they were supposed to be. In which case the lack of a door there may create a red flag.

    At the end of the day look at what is in your contract and the addendum that list all of the additions/options.

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Right it isn't in the contract or the additions/options. But my point is that I didn't know it was an option and it was never communicated to me that it was an option.

    The option drawing is not clear, especially since the other options doors have callouts designating them as options. Also we were led to believe it was included because the official drawings at pre-construction meeting included the door.

    It is expensive to increase the price of an option by $720 and that would have factored into deciding if we even wanted the playroom in the first place. I feel like they should honor the door and I agree my best be might be to put the appraisal in front of them and say well we thought there was a door based on the plans. We want the door and adding the door would kill the appraisal.

    Thanks

  • HerrDoktorProfessor
    9 years ago

    If they signed off on the final plans and it is in the final plans then I would expect the door to be included at the negotiated contract price. Otherwise what else on those final construction plans might they argue ought not supposed to be there?

    Had it not been meant to be included then it is on them to make sure it is not included in the final blueprints.

    Of course this is my opinion and the value of internet opinions aren't worth a whole lot. I'm not a contract/real estate lawyer.

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    What was in the separate window and door schedule that went with the architectural plans? If it was included there, then you might have leverage. What about the elevations of the separate play room? Just showing a cased opening on an overhead doesn't mean doors are included for a cased opening. What did that door schedule show? Writing rules. If it's not in writing, it's not included, whether or not it's standard or optional.

    The presence or absence of doors will not affect the appraisal. Unless it's the front door.

    Compromise with the builder. Offer to pay half. But, be prepared to have him not want to compromise with you if there is nothing on the door schedule or the elevations. Don't plan to die on this hill. Buy the doors if you want the doors. It's under 1K. That's a bargain for materials and labor. It would cost more later to have done.

  • renovator8
    9 years ago

    Don't see how the appraisal is relevant. It's just an estimate of the value of the house in the current market which is not detailed down to the number of doors. A pair of doors should not affect the market value of the house.

    As for the legality of the issue, a construction contract should always contain an Order of Precedence clause governing the interpretation of conflicting contract provisions. That order is normally 1) the Agreement, 2) the Specifications and 3) the drawings.

    But the seller should have enough experience to know that an owner should formally sign-off on alternatives and options in the Agreement or in a separate written document that is referenced in the Agreement.

  • amberm145_gw
    9 years ago

    I think the appraisal is relevant because the estimated value of the house, with doors, is whatever they've agreed to pay, plus $250. If they pay $720 for doors, they would now be paying $470 more for the house than the bank says it's worth.

    However, $470 on the value of a custom house with office and playroom, I'm guessing is less than .1%. I'm sure your down payment is well above that. So I doubt the bank is going to walk away from the deal over $470.

    You may be required to add that into your deposit out of your own cash. But if you tell your builder that's going to be difficult for you to come up with, he's probably going to become very uncomfortable with your ability to buy the house at all.

  • amberm145_gw
    9 years ago

    And even if they told you it was an option, if it's on the approved drawing, anyone would have to assume that you accepted the option. Or, if you were told and you declined the option, they should have removed it from the drawing. So the property manager's insistence that you were told is irrelevant.

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    Pick your battles, if you win over a $750 change order option, you very well may end paying for it somewhere else. So in the long run you may end up losing a hell of a lot more.

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I told my realtor about it and she agrees that I had no expectation to think that door was anything but an included feature. She is going to talk to the builders agent today. I'll let you know the outcome.

  • renovator8
    9 years ago

    Alternates are normally included in the drawings and accepted or rejected in the written contract. They would not be removed from the drawings if not accepted, that's why they were shown dotted. If the written contract doesn't list the doors as accepted, they are not in the contract. If this was not documented clearly you have a case. If the written documents do not support you, I suggest offering to split the cost while you still have some leverage and move on to more important issues.

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago

    Not in the contract not included. No matter what you ''think''. If it didn't get written in, it's non approved change order.

  • rwiegand
    9 years ago

    Your contract should specify how errors in the drawings are handled. Read it, the contract is what matters, not what anyone here says.

  • jfcwood
    9 years ago

    I can see both sides of the argument and it appears to me both sides made a mistake. The right thing to do would be to offer to pay half.

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    As I stated if you battle over $750 and stick it up his a**, I guarantee you will pay more than that down the road somewhere. Builders do not forget that stuff. SO pick and choose your battles wisely!!

  • amberm145_gw
    9 years ago

    millworkman, I'd normally agree with you. But in this case, OP is 2 weeks from closing.

    I'm impressed they've gotten this far and it's the first thing that's come up. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for the builder to get his revenge.

  • worthy
    9 years ago

    As for the legality of the issue, a construction contract should always contain an Order of Precedence clause governing the interpretation of conflicting contract provisions. That order is normally 1) the Agreement, 2) the Specifications and 3) the drawings.
    (emphasis added)

    This is the crux that has been ignored by the OP.

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Worthy,

    The problem is that how could we have known that that door wasn't included based on the option drawing we viewed. Its not like we are thinking that we lucked out that the door was included on the plan. We always thought the door was included with the playroom option and had no reason to think otherwise.

    I have uploaded 3 pictures (the second 2 in subsequent posts). The first shows the playroom option, the second shows the flexroom with the optional doors clearly called out and the third shows the plan.

    The builder is digging their heels in. I more have a pet peeve with people not being upfront and being willing to accept a mistake so I think we will pursue this. I guess the next question is should we not close and file a grievance or whatever, or go ahead and close and then pursue it?

    This post was edited by Daneish09 on Thu, Dec 18, 14 at 16:35

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    flex room with doors called out

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Picture from approved plan

  • njbuilding143
    9 years ago

    Yea.. I would definitely have to agree with you on this one.. Based on the plans you should not be paying for those doors.. Your approved plans has the doors on them and even based on the options layout they show them as included.. The reason they are on an option on the flex room is because you might just have wanted an open space.. I would definitely fight them on this, however in the end its going to be you vs them and you would have to figure out what the cost is going to be to fight compared to just paying the doors.. If it was a reputable builder who cares about his reputation then he would install the doors with no questions.. Especially being that they are clearly marked on the plans that were submitted to the county.. Perhaps you can talk to them and they can meet you halfway as far as costs go..

  • dekeoboe
    9 years ago

    I don't think you can compare the flex room doors to the playroom doors. The entire playroom is optional, correct? The entire flex room is not optional is it? I can't really tell based on what you have shown.

    Did you also get the raised ceiling in the playroom?

    You can't rely just on the drawings you should us. For example, based on the drawings alone one would not know if you were getting the 36" half wall or the pickets and rails.

    As has been asked before, did you get a door schedule and what does it say.

  • njbuilding143
    9 years ago

    Dekeoboe - I get what you are saying but based on those plans he is getting the 36 half wall unless he opts for the optional picket rails.. They show the playroom doors as every other door on his plans which, to me, would indicate they were being installed.. Now when the poster was presented with the plans for approval he would assume the same, that the doors were included.. Had they been shaded/dotted he might have said "wait, what about the doors on the playroom" but they werent.. The plans clearly indicate where an optional item is available..

  • pixie_lou
    9 years ago

    Your really going to refuse to close because of a door? Your really going to sue the builder over a door?

  • Michelle
    9 years ago

    I'm with pixie. I've had change orders in the tens of thousands of dollars already in this build. I'd be damn happy to get out with just $720! You'll pay way more in legal fees than what it's worth.

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Right I absolutely agree with the last few posts. What will it cost me to fight and what do I stand to gain? It probably isn't worth it and they know that which is why they say no. If you look closely at that option picture the doors to the play room are ever so slightly dashed. I never noticed that until they pointed it out 3 days ago when I asked about the doors. But that's the issue. Options should be clearly communicated. There should be no question about it. Also, I never received a door and window schedule which would have been an opportunity for them to communicate it wasn't standard early in the process.

    To whoever asked. Yes we got the raised ceiling and we went for the picket rails (nothing on that one step though), but atleast they indicate that is an option. The playroom is an option and the flex room is standard, just without the doors. The raised ceiling is clearly indicated on the option drawings as optional just like the flex room double doors are. Not so clear on the playroom double doors.

    Would filing a complaint with the builders association accomplish anything? Or is that a joke like the better business bureau?

    I think they are now punishing me for even challenging them on this. They have moved my closing to one day after my rate lock expires (coincidence?). So that costs me another $500. They overall are still early, but told me early November that closing would be December 12th so I got a 30 day lock to the 15tth. They slipped 14 days and just now tacked on another 2 days. I get delays but they shouldn't tell me in early December they can't meet the 12 and have to slip it to the end of the month. I've told them several times I'm in no rush to close. I just want to know so I can make arrangements.

    First time building. Is it always like this? The house is beautiful for the most part!

    This post was edited by Daneish09 on Fri, Dec 19, 14 at 7:47

  • millworkman
    9 years ago

    Unfortunately as I said you need to pick your battles, and I mean it sucks but the finish line and $750 ain't the place in my mind. A complaint with the builders assoc may carry less weight that the next to nothing with the BBB.

  • mrspete
    9 years ago

    If you want a door, pay for a door.
    Honesty and fair dealings are always the right choice.

    In two weeks, the builder can do plenty of things to "stick it to the homeowner", if he chooses to do so. And if you should find problems in the future -- a leaky window, a door that doesn't shut just right, whatever -- you don't want your builder to remember you negatively.

  • indiana_th
    9 years ago

    Why not offer a compromise, say you misread the plans and they did not clearly communicate the options. Offer to pay half if the will pay half and accept the minor cost and move on.

  • patriceny
    9 years ago

    I would do exactly what Indiana just suggested.

    Yes, building a house is almost always like this. :) Frankly, if this is the worst problem you've had, you've been lucky! I'm not saying that to try to make you feel bad, truly just trying to give you some perspective.

    There is no way I would delay anything over $720. I'm not saying that is a drop in the bucket....but in the grand scheme of building a house, it really kind-of is.

    Secondly, and far more importantly - as Mrs. Pete says, if something goes wrong shortly after you move in, you may find you NEED him to come back. If you tick him off now over something so minor, you could really be screwed down the road.

    I ended up almost hating my GC, but I've kept my mouth shut. We've had some ongoing problems that were only sort-of his fault, and he's ended up being rather helpful. I would have been screwed on a few issues that were manufacturers' defects if I didn't have his backing.

    Pick your battles wisely. To me, this isn't a battle worth picking.

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So I have another question. I have a light fixture in a hallway between my master bedroom and bathroom. It is a 40 inch wide hallway.

    The light is 17.75 inches from one wall and 22.25 inches from the other wall. I feel like 4.5 inches difference (2.25 inches off center) is out of spec. Am I being to picky or should they fix this?

    I haven't brought this up to them yet. Also, I went back and looked at pictures we took pre dry-wall and a joist being in the way isn't an issue. All the electrician would have had to do was put a 2x4 and a 1x4 in there to create the right offset.

    This post was edited by Daneish09 on Mon, Dec 22, 14 at 14:15

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    I'll bet the size of the hall was increased from the standard 36" to the 40". Not something you want to hold up closing. For sure.

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    As far as I know that hallway size is standard unless they accidentally made one of the closest too small that are on either side. They consider the drawings proprietary and wont give me a copy so I cant check.

    You're absolutely right, I shouldn't hold up closing for this. But it is going to be annoying to have to fix this after closing. Its one of those things where if they just spent 10 minutes extra on it than it would have been done right and there are several things like that. Another annoying one is that the framers must have put a bad piece of wood in one of the window jams. Now the drywall is noticeably wavy, which I'm there is nothing they can do about.

  • HerrDoktorProfessor
    9 years ago

    Wait. Your builder didn't and won't give you a full copy of your plans?
    WTF?

    We got both full size paper copies of complete plans and a flash drive with an electronic copy.

    Who is this builder and where are you building?

    sounds like someone to avoid like the plague.

  • Daneish09
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I don't think that it is uncommon for a builder to not give you a copy of the plans. It isn't a custom house. It is one of those where the development has 5 options you pick one and can customize a few options.