I like the floor plan. Have you considered omitting the stone wall and extra gable on the garage? I think it competes for attention with your front door, and then when people look in the window, they'll see it's a garage and the illusion is broken. Or at least that's what happens to me when I walk past similar houses in my neighborhood. I've noticed some nice boats, though. ;^)

That's one long hike from the master bedroom to the master closet.

Have you considered placing the closet alongside the living room wall to act as a noise buffer,, reorienting the bedroom so it takes up some of the space the master bath takes and shifting parts of the master bath into where you have the closet?

THe reading nook is useless tacked on space that isn't in a convenient spot to ever be used. You could say virtually the same thing about the dining room. It's in a prominent spot, but it will never be used as it's too far from the kitchen and there are already plenty of more convenient areas to eat at. Except for the island. The kitchen isn't big enough to have an island that shape and size in it with seating. Without seating, maybe. But you'll have a hard time reaching the center of it to clean it. And the fridge is all the way in the interior, where people have to slide by sideways in order to reach it. Not gonna work at all.

The whole master area needs reworking. It's not laid out well at all. From that awkward closet/nook/bath area to the fact that there is no sound buffer between the bedroom and living room, to the fact there is another redundant sitting area inside the actual bedroom area.....

RE: the distance of a master closet: Our closet is similarly laid out and that is never something that bothered me in my home. What would bother me is the headboard of the bed sharing a wall with the living room. It will be noisy, unless you don't expect people to use that space often. At the very least, I would sound-proof that wall as much as possible and make sure your door is solid wood.

RE: The reading nook: I would put a door on that space to be able to shut out noise. If that room can be closed off, I could imagine using it in my own home. It could also be a place to take a phone call with some quiet from the rest of the house.

These are minor, but important, I think.

You can see from the LR to your powder toilet, directly.

I'd turn your powder room 90* and enter it from the "mudroom side". Yes, it means your guests will see your mudroom, but really, with that open of a mudroom, they will see it anyway. And, it solves the issue of seeing the toilet from the couch.

And, in your MB--I'd change your bathroom french doors to outswing. They will have walls to rest against/the space is there for the doors to swing in that direction, and you won't have to walk around the doors to get to either the toilet or the shower, which you will do daily.

I know you have the double stair thing going due to your DW, but which one has the basement stair under? Will the other have a closet or storage under? (just don't forget to utilize that space).

I also wanted to comment on your island/breakfast nook area. That area is way too cramped. The chairs/stools are never pushed in as drawn, and even as drawn you can see there is little space to walk.

So, I'm sticking to my original comments in your first post, that that area is too tight.

Your kitchen island can maybe be cut in half (lengthwise) and slid over a little and be there with stools only on the "fridge wall" side. But, you don't have the space for a wrap-around seating arrangement as drawn. The kitchen forum is a good place to read about necessary clearances.

Thanks for the responses.

@zone4newby
We actually set the garage back several feet (relative to the front of the home) in order to make it not so prominent, but of course there's only so much we can do about that. The stone there balances the front of the house out somewhat so I'm hesitant to change that, but I will definitely test your suggestion at least on my CAD model to see how it looks.

@AlexHouse
Our current master suite is laid out almost exactly like this one and we really like it that way. I guess that's just how we live. We dress in our closet & master bath, not the bedroom.

@hollysprings
The reading nook is only intended as a small space. The built-ins you see there may also include a bench to replace the chair/chaise lounge. Basically we intend to use it where one kid can escape to do some reading homework or alone work, or where we can take a phone call (we do intend to put double doors on it). We both work on-call shifts sometimes and need to take a quiet phone call. We are thinking about robbing a foot from the closet to make that nook 9' wide as well - that would help it feel not so cramped.

Our dining room is used rarely but for entertaining it is something we need. As our children age we plan to entertain more often in the formal spaces.

RE the kitchen island: You helped me realize that when I placed that I did not center it. I just did so, and even with the stools there is 3' of walkway left between them and the counter behind them. The back counter will just be extra counter space since it is not in the work triangle.

@lolauren
You and AlexHouse both mentioned the noise issue so that may be something we need to consider. We may even make that a 2x6 wall and insulate it as much as possible. We do plan solid wood doors on all bedrooms and bathrooms.

3 feet of space is not enough. That will be a walkway. 3' is a minimum without stools I believe they say 56" in the kitchen forum for this type of situation.

@kirkhall

I couldn't agree more about the powder room access and visibility. We have done it both ways (with the access on the mudroom side) but that way was nixed due to the garage door. I would personally love to change that back and am working on that one.

Great idea about the master bath doors. We have them in our current home and they swing out into the bedroom - it's perfect. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that - consider it changed - thanks!

Re the kitchen island, someone else mentioned that as well and when I centered it in the kitchen that gave me an extra foot behind those stools. I also just realized that while that is supposed to be a 5x5 island, it is 6' wide on these plans. So when that is corrected it will give me an extra 6" on each side (sink side and stool side). Once those are fixed I'll give the kitchen forum a crack at it and see what they have to say there.

In the other thread did I mention how dark that living room is apt to be?

@dekeoboe
If you did I missed it. But perhaps you transmitted it telepathically to my wife :) because she picked some large windows and doors for that wall, and we also decided to vault the screened porch ceiling to accommodate them.

Here is a view from the foyer. Ignore some of the finishes in this mockup - it is preliminary - but it will give you an idea of where we're headed with that wall.

I should also mention that the living room you see in that image will be open to the 2nd story above.

@kirkhall
My apologies - I completely missed your stairway/closet question. The family stairs will have the basement access underneath them and the foyer stairs will have a closet.

RE: the garage door-powder room door conflict.

I'm not sure I am actually liking your garage door location.

Put some parked cars in your garage (like you are doing with your furniture layout) and see if it makes sense? You may find that you are always walking around some aspect of the car.... I would argue you might want it nearer the side entry door. It might also help with drafts, and unless you have a particularly attractive garage door, it will be nicer to have a wall there than a door to see from the kitchen areas...

Something to consider.

Good suggestion to play around with that door location. Here is one to consider. We are meeting with the designer again this weekend so I'll add this to my list of discussion points.

Definitely keep the stone accent on the garage. If you have stone accent JUST on the front door, it's odd. With stone in two places, it's a plan.

The exterior is extremely expensive. Stone accents, a roof with so many twists and turns. And that roof'll continue to be expensive to maintain. And a front side porch too skinny to be used. Just be sure that's a considered decision before you build it; I'd rather spend that money on nicer finishes inside.

In fact, this whole house is very expensive to build, and costs could be cut in any number of places -- without loss of quality. For example, the master bedroom is 16-8. You're going to spend extra to frame, drywall, etc. those extra eight inches. Between labor and materials, that's an expensive eight inches.

The reading nook is definitely NOT wasted space. I like that it's small enough to be cozy, and it's out of the way to provide quiet in a house that's otherwise very open. I can see this room getting lots of use. I'd be sure to put a door on this room (perhaps a pocket door?) for quiet and privacy.

I totally agree with the person who says, "Rework the master bedroom." I like the small sitting area, but I don't like the orientation of the bed. I like the bed to be in "full view" when I walk through the bedroom door, so I'd place the head of the bed on the wall with the windows. This also means that the person who sleeps on the far side doesn't have to walk around the foot of the bed to get to his or her side. Most importantly, though, I would definitely like to see the closet form a "noise barrier" between the living room and the bedroom. If you move the bed area over to what is now the bathroom and switch the closet /bathroom to the bed area, you're going to take care of that noise issue AND have a nicer entrance to the master suite.

As for the closet-in-the-bathroom concept, this is something that people like or hate. I personally like it. However, I wouldn't like carrying a laundry basket through the maze of the bedroom door, bathroom door, past the shower and tub . . . finally we're in the closet. Another reason to flip-flop the sleeping area and the closet/bath area. If you reach the closet area first, the chore of laundry -- which is never-ending -- is easier.

I do wonder about the need for a sitting area in the master bedroom AND a living room AND a family room AND a reading nook. Having that nice area in the master suite, I'd ditch one of the public gathering rooms. When your kids have friends over, you have a place to which you can disappear. Also, since those two public gathering rooms are connected, you're going to have a problem with noise, so these two spaces aren't all that valuable. Plus, in South Carolina you're going to have outdoor entertaining space too.

I agree with the others that the island is vastly over-sized for the kitchen. I'm only 5' tall, so I know that I would hate cleaning the center of that monster. And, as I said earlier, I think that -- for two self-professed non-cooks -- you're putting far too much space and money into the kitchen.

I still think your entry areas and stairways are overdone.

I had never considered the issue of walking around the cars to get to the family entrance, but dbrad's picture makes the problem clear. The driver of the car on the left has an idea situation, but everyone else has to walk around things to get in the door -- not a problem really, but a constant annoyance. The kind of thing you want to avoid, when you're bothering to plan a house "just right" for yourself.

Here's a radical idea: Flip the dining area with the laundry/mudroom area. Yes, this would require moving some walls because the dimensions aren't identical, but think through the benefits. You elminate the problematic space between the dining room and the kitchen. And as for the garage entrance, you could have your entry door straight ahead of the cars . . . and you could enter into the main entryway with the staircase. This would mean you could eliminate the "by the family entrance" staircase (wheelbarrows and buckets full of savings). It would take some finagling to make this work, but I think it'd make a more functional house.

Finally, yes, you can see the half bath from the living room, but I also don't like the option of turning the door -- it would be odd to have to walk alll the way around the bathroom to get to the door, and the door would hit the garage door. I don't see a way to make this better, in its present position.

At this point, I'd say keep at the design. Changing things on paper is free. Getting them right is priceless.

Definitely keep the stone accent on the garage. If you have stone accent JUST on the front door, it's odd. With stone in two places, it's a plan.

The exterior is extremely expensive. Stone accents, a roof with so many twists and turns. And that roof'll continue to be expensive to maintain. And a front side porch too skinny to be used. Just be sure that's a considered decision before you build it; I'd rather spend that money on nicer finishes inside.

In fact, this whole house is very expensive to build, and costs could be cut in any number of places -- without loss of quality. For example, the master bedroom is 16-8. You're going to spend extra to frame, drywall, etc. those extra eight inches. Between labor and materials, that's an expensive eight inches.

The reading nook is definitely NOT wasted space. I like that it's small enough to be cozy, and it's out of the way to provide quiet in a house that's otherwise very open. I can see this room getting lots of use. I'd be sure to put a door on this room (perhaps a pocket door?) for quiet and privacy.

I totally agree with the person who says, "Rework the master bedroom." I like the small sitting area, but I don't like the orientation of the bed. I like the bed to be in "full view" when I walk through the bedroom door, so I'd place the head of the bed on the wall with the windows. This also means that the person who sleeps on the far side doesn't have to walk around the foot of the bed to get to his or her side. Most importantly, though, I would definitely like to see the closet form a "noise barrier" between the living room and the bedroom. If you move the bed area over to what is now the bathroom and switch the closet /bathroom to the bed area, you're going to take care of that noise issue AND have a nicer entrance to the master suite.

As for the closet-in-the-bathroom concept, this is something that people like or hate. I personally like it. However, I wouldn't like carrying a laundry basket through the maze of the bedroom door, bathroom door, past the shower and tub . . . finally we're in the closet. Another reason to flip-flop the sleeping area and the closet/bath area. If you reach the closet area first, the chore of laundry -- which is never-ending -- is easier.

I do wonder about the need for a sitting area in the master bedroom AND a living room AND a family room AND a reading nook. Having that nice area in the master suite, I'd ditch one of the public gathering rooms. When your kids have friends over, you have a place to which you can disappear. Also, since those two public gathering rooms are connected, you're going to have a problem with noise, so these two spaces aren't all that valuable. Plus, in South Carolina you're going to have outdoor entertaining space too.

I agree with the others that the island is vastly over-sized for the kitchen. I'm only 5' tall, so I know that I would hate cleaning the center of that monster. And, as I said earlier, I think that -- for two self-professed non-cooks -- you're putting far too much space and money into the kitchen.

I still think your entry areas and stairways are overdone.

I had never considered the issue of walking around the cars to get to the family entrance, but dbrad's picture makes the problem clear. The driver of the car on the left has an idea situation, but everyone else has to walk around things to get in the door -- not a problem really, but a constant annoyance. The kind of thing you want to avoid, when you're bothering to plan a house "just right" for yourself.

Here's a radical idea: Flip the dining area with the laundry/mudroom area. Yes, this would require moving some walls because the dimensions aren't identical, but think through the benefits. You elminate the problematic space between the dining room and the kitchen. And as for the garage entrance, you could have your entry door straight ahead of the cars . . . and you could enter into the main entryway with the staircase. This would mean you could eliminate the "by the family entrance" staircase (wheelbarrows and buckets full of savings). It would take some finagling to make this work, but I think it'd make a more functional house.

Finally, yes, you can see the half bath from the living room, but I also don't like the option of turning the door -- it would be odd to have to walk alll the way around the bathroom to get to the door, and the door would hit the garage door. I don't see a way to make this better, in its present position.

At this point, I'd say keep at the design. Changing things on paper is free. Getting them right is priceless.

Can you add eight or sixteen inches to the dining room, for a little more space between the chairs and the china hutch? This adds a little more space in the living room as well. Is there room on your lot to someday enclose the garage and then build a seperate garage? It seems so inevitable when the lots are large that it's nice to plan ahead for it.

The breakfast nook will not work unless you do banquette seating, which is limiting to easy in and out access. The kitchen is totally unworkable and too small as thought out, but much too large for your description of your lives. Too many duplicative spaces to eat and sit. All you really need is one well designed eating space that has a table (and space) to expand to serve more when entertaining. You've got 3 poorly designed spaces that don't work well for either family or entertaining. And all you need are two seated gathering areas, one for loud, and one for quiet. You've got 3 for quiet, and one for loud.

The flow on this house is greatly compromised by the dual staircases. That's 50K worth of engineering, building material, and HVAC that is totally unnecessary. On a larger, more luxury build, like a 6000 square foot house, two staircases can be functional because the house is so large. Here, it just eats up valuable space and dollars without giving you anything in return. That space could go to make the breakfast area usable, or to create a better layout for the master. It's a stubborn sticking point that you really don't have the luxury of keeping with compromising other elements in the home to their detriment.

I like the plan, but perhaps make the breakfast nook larger and rework what appears to be a kitchen island. Perhaps I am reading the plan wrong but if the nook was made larger/more functional, you could make the island smaller (eliminate the seating entirely) and the island would function as a work surface and a buffet during parties. If the nook were a little larger, you'd feel no need to cramp up your kitchen with island seating. I kinda like the two stair cases.

For what its worth - our master wall shares a wall with the great room (which has a tv on it.) We used cellulose insulation in that wall and noise hasn't been a problem. We have a ceiling fan on at night in the master and we keep the tv on a lower volume when someone is in the master bedroom sleeping.

We also have our master closet off the bathroom. It seems more convenient and easy to access when we're getting ready.
Our laundry room is at the opposite end of the house from our closet, but that doesn't seem a terrible chore to carry my laundry basket from one place to the other a couple times a week!

You know how "YOU" live and what you're used to. Its nice to get ideas here on ways to improve, but ultimately you have to decide if it fits the way you live.

I think it looks like a fantastic house and plan, fwiw.

I'm wondering how you are planning on using the living vs. Family room? I guess I'd want my family room to be the larger room as that is what I'd be using on a regular basis and if I wanted a living room it would be more formal, but wouldn't be used much in my house.

I'm not sure the large windows are going to do enough to bring light into the living room. It depends which way that wall faces, but the light is going to be blocked by the 13 ft porch roof and the family room. Your computer program will probably allow you to take the 3D image and see how much light will go into the room at different times of the day. I suggest you try that to see if you feel the room will get enough light for your lifestyle.

I haven't seen your previous attempt, so perhaps there's a reason, but I wouldn't consider building a house that size without a three car garage. A two car garage, especially once kids are driving, leads to juggling cars in the driveway all the time or parking them on the street.

Unless you'll have a shed, where will the lawnmower, shovels, various tools go?

@MrsPete
We have added a door now to access the reading nook.

RE the master suite: we are going to heavily insulate the shared wall between the master bedroom and living room (which will be rarely used when we are asleep) - maybe even frame it 2x6. While I don't disagree that there is a lot of space in that room that may be better used elsewhere, we are also trying to line up walls on this main level to support the layout upstairs - both for loading and cost considerations. Our only nitpick with the master as it stands now is that it can be seen into from the formal dining room - but we're not sure how to arrange it better than it is while maintaining the open feel as well as our views. You suggested moving the closet and bathroom to the back wall, but that wall provides us with our best private views (only our woods behind us, no neighbors) so I'd hate to have to remove windows there and put them on the side where the views won't be quite as nice. I think we may just need to ensure that the door stays shut when company is expected.

RE entertainment spaces: Wait until we post our basement plans - you'll really think we have too many entertaining spaces then. :) We do entertain a good bit, and have plans to increase that when we move. We did discuss this today though, and came away feeling that we had an expected use for all of these spaces.

RE the kitchen island: Everyone's feedback here has made us think harder about that one, and I think we are probably going to shrink that to a flat (no bi-level) 4x5' island. The seating arrangement (5) will stay, but making it 4x5 will give us a full 5' walkway for that main thoroughfare through the kitchen.

RE the laundry/garage/side entrance: I'm not even sure I can accurately picture the plan you were describing there, but what of it I was able to pitch to my wife was promptly put to rest. We did end up turning the powder room door to face the side entrance, and moved the garage access door to the left by a couple of feet. This does give me a few more feet to walk around her car I guess, but I just don't see that as an issue. Moving that door to the left removes it from view from the rest of the house, and also prevents it from interfering with the powder room door.

@landngarage
We could rob some space from the foyer, but if we ended up needing more room we would just shift the table to the right.

We are building on 3+ acres and I do plan to build a detached garage in the future - I hadn't considered enclosing this garage but I suppose that's an option should we ever want to do that.

@live_wire_oak
We are kicking around a banquette there as an option, and perhaps going with a rectangle table instead of our current round one. But already that space is bigger than our current one, and it is sufficient even when family/friends are over. With the island seating we should be in even better shape. I don't understand the kitchen size comment - is it too big or too small in your view? In terms of layout and work triangle it is identical to our current home which we like, this one is just a bit larger. We did decide to increase the size of the pantry to 6' wide, which pushes the fridge/wall oven/microwave up by a foot or so. This put the fridge in better reach, and that extra space will come in handy.

@downsy
Thanks for the input - it's great hearing from others with similar layouts!

@building_a_house
Thanks!

@lyfia
You are on the right track with our planned usage of those two rooms. We use our current formal living room less often, but it does get used enough to warrant it. We also plan to put a baby grand in there one day, so we're making it big enough to accommodate that.

@dekeoboe
That is definitely something we are working on. We've decided to vault that screened porch roof and we're hoping that will help. This software does indeed allow us to program in solar path orientation, and once I get the 2nd floor CAD'd I'll definitely be checking that out - I'll post an image here when I do.

@bethohio3
We are building on 3+ acres and do plan to build a detached garage off the breakfast nook corner of the house in the future once kids are driving - we have several years to go.

And the walk-out basement plan has some workshop/garage space that will hold lawn equipment, etc.

I see it mentioned here all the time about a room being "dark" because of an attached covered porch. Isn't that the trade-off? If so to me its worth it because my family uses the covered porch in our current home a LOT now and will use it even more when we have a wooded backyard.

Besides, isn't that what LED lighting was made for? ;)

RE: the 4 x 5' island... are you planning on having legs on it to support the overhang? I'm trying to think of how you can fit 5 chairs on those two sides, and I don't think it's really practical, especially with legs. If you are just squishing in little kids on little stools, it might be doable. For adults, it would be tight (the two stools on the corner would have the person's knees touching, depending upon how deep the overhang is.) Anyway, just something to consider.

I'd consider moving the garage door another 3-4 feet to the left. It is unlikely you'll have a door conflict with the side door since usually you will have one or the other open, or both closed. (and, change the direction of the door swing)

Just a consideration.

@lolauren
My initial plan here does have support legs for that island, but I see your point re how they will affect the stools. Food for thought - thanks.

@kirkhall
We are now thinking of just keeping the door in view (close to the powder room), having it match the other interior doors, and changing the swing direction. Of course, this introduces the problem of the door swinging toward those who are moving from the locker area to the garage, but I have a feeling we will flip flop back and forth among different ideas for that door right up until it is installed.

We spoke to the builder again and in an attempt to save costs we are making a few changes.

- Extending the master closet out to the side and eliminating that portion of the porch - porch will still wrap around the reading nook. This enables us to add another side entrance in the basement underneath so we can leave some space under the kitchen unexcavated and save $$ there.
- Since the master closet is now getting bigger we're robbing a foot from it in favor of the reading nook (which now becomes 9' wide).
- Removing a foot from each of the master suite spaces and the reading nook. Basically draw a straight line from the reading nook's front window and take it straight through to the back of the house - take a foot alongside that line. The master bedroom, bath, closet & reading nook all become 1 foot smaller left to right - the only room where I think we'll notice this is in the master bath, but we're willing to take the hit there. The additional foot we're already giving the reading nook from the master closet should alleviate the change there.
- Take another 1 foot slice (front to back) from the foyer & living room. Just a sq ft cost savings there.
- Leaving several hundred sq ft in the basement unexcavated around the garage. This not only saves concrete cost and sq footage in the basement but apparently those walls are the ones with the highest sideload and it makes the basement cheaper to engineer.

I hate this compromise phase but we are trying to hit a particular price goal before we go much further because we are expecting overages in a couple of other areas once we begin.

Some things that did not get cut during this phase but were discussed - double staircases, breakfast nook bumpout, screened porch FP, porch sizes.

We are also considering going with a 9' main floor wall and basement wall instead of 10' for each of those. Upstairs has always been planned at 8'.

I feel your pain! We are building a new home and when I posted the floor plan I was inundated with suggestions from GW, some of which were great and some of which were things I never thought bugged me until they pointed them out and some other things which we were not willing to change, despite the strong opinions of GWers. Obviously a lot of thought went into your plans and all the hours spent doing so can not be related here in one thread. I guess what I'm trying to say is take what you can from the GWers but you can't listen to everyone. The bottom line is the floor plan must serve your family's needs.

Thanks Laura517, that's what we're trying to do - digest all the feedback with our own list of priorities as a guide. Honestly though, the responses here have been more useful than I anticipated - I guess I'm just jaded toward most internet feedback, but what we've received here has by and large been useful.

We have incorporated several suggestions and are awaiting another set of plans with recent changes - hopefully we've about got this thing ready!

I'll post the new changes next week after the holidays.

Having 9' ceilings is totally acceptable, imo. See if you can search for AnnieDeighnaugh's house. (I am pretty sure it is the one). They have a wonderful walk out basement that has x tall ceilings (that is what I can't remember) that keeps the space from feeling like a basement. But, having those pictures might help you to know what 9' ceilings might feel like.

Found it!
And, in another post, she mentions they chose 9' ceilings...
But, I think you can get a good idea of the space of 9' ceilings in the pictures on this post (linked)

Here is a link that might be useful: AnnieDeighnaugh's basement

Here is another thread, in which I posed the question for you. We'll see if she gets notified of a comment, and responds.

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's post

Thanks kirkhall! We did decide to go with 9' in the basement (will remain unfinished for now), but we're keeping the 10' main level for now. My main reason for that is I want the taller doors. I may be able to convince myself to drop that level to 9' as well before we start building, but for now I'm keeping that one in my pocket.