First floor

Second floor

Not sure how interesting this is, but this is the roof.

I'd make a few small changes to the kitchen...and add some more windows!

The range now has windows on both sides, looking out over the potager garden (kitchen garden) behind the garage. This includes a bird bath and bench...I miss my garden, hope you don't mind my dreaming a bit with yours!

Also, moved the fridge and double ovens down to the 'bottom' of the plan. The pantry is now off the mudroom and dining/closet area.

Just a few ideas :)

A couple of pictures with windows on each side of range. Ideally, the prep sink/island should be across from the range, as it is in your plan!

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Tue, Nov 25, 14 at 19:54

What is the current sq footage? Which rooms are you willing to make smaller in order to reduce the size of the house?

I prefer the original to LL's changes because they force all traffic coming in from the garage to go through the kitchen.

This post was edited by dekeoboe on Tue, Nov 25, 14 at 20:42

Wow, that's tough! Really like your plan overall. My first cut down would be the music room. Do you really need room for a couch and chair in there?

None of the bedrooms are overly large, wouldn't want to go smaller than 12x12 for sure, but might be able to decrease slightly.

Best of luck!

Wow, that's tough! Really like your plan overall. My first cut down would be the music room. Do you really need room for a couch and chair in there?

None of the bedrooms are overly large, wouldn't want to go smaller than 12x12 for sure, but might be able to decrease slightly.

Best of luck!

Thanks lavendar_lass. We were thinking about a layout like yours with a prep sink in the island and stove on the right as well as clean up on the backyard side. As we move to CAD drafting and know the exact dimensions of the kitchen we should really decide which layout we like better!

With this floor plan we were trying to avoid walking through the kitchen to get to the mudroom. And just noticed that dekeobee mentions that too!

I did not know what a potager garden was before, and a bird bath is a great idea! I'll have to remember that, but for now the house comes first. :)

@dekeoboe: I think the current square footage is 3800 SF living space, but my architect sent me a confusing email so that is pending confirmation. The plan as is is currently over the maximum allowed, but it's just also more bulky than I was hoping for - my goal was to not be "the biggest house on the block. The current biggest house is 3584 SF living space.

We're open to making several rooms smaller. One problem is that my architect is trying really hard to get the garage not to stick out of the front of the house but as a result he made the office and music/living room bigger than necessary. I think we should just accept that the garage will stick out a little, or make the music room and office smaller but have a porch along the front, which will also shade the office and music room from the western sun and help with the garage sticking out as well.

- Music room: I originally said (and am still fine with) a music room that is 14' x 16'. It would be good to have room for seating for when we occasionally host small recitals with my piano teacher's other adult students. And my fiance likes to lounge on the couch while I play piano as well. :)
- Office: a 12' x 15' office is huge! We were thinking even 12' x 12' was big. I guess for resale we could pretend the office is a dining room (a dining room very far away from the kitchen, I know!)
- Secondary bedrooms: I agree with aam31; we were hoping for 140 SF minimum for secondary bedrooms. the two 12' x 14' ones could be smaller. The one in the front may be tricky because our architect was trying to make it the same size as the master bathroom for balance. On the other hand though, I suspect the master bathroom is much bigger than we need so perhaps both could be cut!
- Master bedroom: our minimum for master bedroom is 14' by 16' and this one is 14' by 18'. But, it might not make sense to cut it if it makes extra exterior corners which I hear are expensive?
- Family and dining rooms: We have no idea what size we want or need for these rooms. We should probably investigate more and measure rooms in other people's houses or something.

On the other hand though, I feel like the guest bedroom should be more like 13' x 16' instead of 12' by 16', and the garage is never big enough! I'm greedy. :) But it's looking like there's few spaces we can cut to shave off those square feet. I keep telling my fiance we could cut a bedroom upstairs as well but he thinks it adds a lot of flexibility for not extra cost. I think we will need to work with our architect once we have CAD plans to push and pull walls around and see how that changes things. The main thing for now is getting feedback on the general layout.

I also want to add that we'll have a small shed in the backyard for storing gardening stuff, so we don't have to use our garage for those kinds of things. At least I hope so; I'm not much of a gardener currently so have no idea how much space that stuff takes up!

The pantry is a walk through...so you could walk through the pantry to the other parts of the house or go through the kitchen.

I added the door on the 'dining room/hall closet' side, in case you didn't want the pantry always open to this area.

You could switch that to a hall with pantry cabinets on each side...then you could walk through the kitchen...or not. Flexibility is important.

Glad you like the garden! It's important to know where you want gardens and other outdoor features, even if you don't include them for now. Easier to add them on later and know the house plan will support your ideas down the road :)

We are hillside west facing in SoCal and your idea of making the front a porch is great! We roast and those rooms often have to keep the windows covered to not get blinded. A covered porch is also a nice place to sit and enjoy a winter sunset

Here is a draft of feedback I plan to send to our architect.

-------
Here are our thoughts on this plan. We agree that it's time to move forward to CAD drafting! We have several ideas for trimming and changing the plan but really need to see something with more exact dimensions to be sure of what we want. And I'm sure making slight edits like this is easier on the computer.

Front Exterior
- The exterior looks great! We should start thinking about what details we like; for example I am not sure I actually like the vertical line things above the doors and windows though I realize it's pretty common in Craftsman style homes. I'm sure it's not that important yet though.
- Thing to think about: single door with side lights or double door?

First Floor
- Minor note: we would probably just make the "hooks" area a big shoe cubby thing.
-In the mudroom, the flow was: 1) go from kitchen to mudroom 2) get shoes, sit on bench while putting on shoes 3) go to garage. So, we think it would be better to put the mudroom door at the end (closer to the laundry).
- We're a little concerned about whether the mudroom is deep enough but need to know dimensions to know for sure.
- It would be nice to get a dedicated coat closet in the entry area not shared with the stairs, but not required. We would only actually use the coat closet for coats when hosting parties/guests anyway.
- We think 12' for the guest room is a bit tight - 13' would be better.
- I have an awesome idea - make the extra closet in the guest room vestibule into a little kitchenette! A counter with a small sink with space for a coffee maker or water boiler, maybe even a space for a microwave above the counter. Not sure how big that area is though.
- Love the glass cabinet area next to the dining!
- The view from the entry is exactly what we were thinking. :)
- Is the extra roof area on the right side of the kitchen nice? We are not sure how we feel about it.
- We could make the music room and office smaller but have a porch along the front so it still looks like that part is out more than the garage.
- Music room: I originally said (and am still fine with) a music room that is 14' x 16'.
- Office: a 12' x 15' office is huge! We were thinking even 12' x 12' was big. I guess for resale we could pretend the office is a dining room (a dining room very far away from the kitchen, I know!)
- Family and dining rooms: We have no idea what size we want or need for these rooms. We should probably investigate more and measure rooms in other people's houses or something. But, the ones drawn look like a good size....

Second Floor
- Not sure if there's enough shared storage space in the hallway. Would need to see dimensions of everything though.
- The door placements on the second story look good now. Try to offset the door to the hall bath and the door to the master bath so they don't align as much as possible.

Secondary bedrooms
- The two 12' x 14' ones could be smaller - 140 SF is my minimum. I'm hoping by downsizing them a little we might be able to shift the master slightly to the left so it isn't as much over the kitchen. We might end up putting the cooktop on the south side of the kitchen instead and so I really want to avoid any possibility that the master bed ends up over the cooktop which is a big feng shui no-no. :)
- The kid's bedroom in the front may be tricky to downsize because we're trying to make it the same size as the master bathroom for balance. On the other hand though, I suspect the master bathroom is much bigger than we need so perhaps both could be cut!
- On the other hand, 12' x 14' is a nice size. xD

Master suite
- Our minimum for master bedroom is 14' by 16' and this one is 14' by 18' (although my parents will love it!). It might not make sense to cut it if it makes extra exterior corners which I hear are expensive? But, cutting it to at least 14' by 17' would free up more roof over the kitchen again.
- Master closet looks good!
- We're not really sure about that nook area in front of the bed. Maybe just give it to the studio.
- Still iffy about the master bathroom layout (looks like no medicine cabinets on the right and left side of the vanity). I'm interested in how large everything is (shower, tub, vanity, as I'm pretty sure it's much larger than our old master bath! The linen closet is a nice touch. The general shape of the master bath is good though. I'm sure we can figure it out.

I don't have much to add except for two things.

You mentioned the possibility of an SUV, you need a bigger garage. Certainly deeper, probably wider as well. Imagine kids/friends trying to navigate that space getting into the house.

The other thing is that I cannot wrap my head around the fact that your plans show a Nanawall in the dining area but no windows on the cooktop wall in the kitchen. If you are making that kind of investment, I would assume the outdoor space is important to you and would want as much view out there as possible.

Oh one more thing :-). I love that your mudroom traffic isn't funneling through the kitchen.

You definitely have a big great room/dining room. I think decreasing the size of those areas depends how often you have your parents staying over. ( it's not that big if there will regularly be 6 people in the house)

I personally would NOT changed the size of your master bed or bath. The bedroom would be difficult to fit 2 pieces of furniture in if it was 2 ft smaller. Also, the sitting area would definitely need eliminated. My biggest regret so far about our in process build: the size of the master bedroom when you factor in 2 night stands, a king bed, a chest, and dresser with mirror. (We're at 17x16 for reference) :(

As far as the bath, you want a minimum for 6ft for a double vanity. The bathroom doesn't look overly large to me, especially if you and your husband will be getting ready at the same time.

Taking

@lmccarly: Hmm, I was under the impression that an SUV is the same size as a minivan but I think SUVs come in many sizes, and we wouldn't plan on getting an especially large one. That said, I am interested in enlarging the garage, particularly the third stall, but we are limited by the city to 4,398 square feet, including living area, garage, and shed. So I will wait to decide until we have CAD drawings and a more exact idea of how much square footage we already have to decide what to do with the garage.

Good catch on the windows in the kitchen! We will definitely have a window along the backyard wall in the kitchen but right now I haven't paid much attention to window placement in general. Another thing we will need to spend a lot of time on once we get some computer drawings. :)

YES, our architect worked very hard to figure out a mudroom configuration that wouldn't push out the garage in the front and also wouldn't result in traffic going through the kitchen.

@aam31: We don't have that much clothes and are able to store all our clothes in the master closet so I think 14' by 16' would be okay even with the sitting area. Let's see how things hash out :) My parents and relatives would agree with you though! Maybe 14' by 17'?

Agree with needing a 6' double vanity at least. We're open to not having a tub which would probably be the biggest gain.

Hmm, can't wait till we get computer drawings!

a 20x20 garage is a minimum size. If you want vans/suvs, you really need a 24x24ish garage.

Check you area. Mine now requires garages to be set back a minimum of 8 feet from the front of the house. (for aesthetics)

What are the overall dimensions of this house and what are your required setbacks? I have a lot that is basically the same as yours and this house looks "longer" than I think I could fit on my lot...

I don't like that you'd have to walk "around" the garage door to get to the mudroom benches/hooks. If it were me, I'd move the garage door to the right--basically swap its location with the bench/hooks location. It does mean you'll be tripping over kid shoes at some point, but you can train them. I think it is better than having to get "stuck" behind the door. And, you'll have to train them up right anyway (not to leave their shoes/coats on the mudroom floor) because you've put the laundry room beyond the mudroom.

btw--are you sure? I'd want the laundry room up.

music room.. office .. and a large upstairs studio??

cant at least two of them be combined ..????

i did see that one of you is a music teacher.. so the music room is needed ...but couldnt the office and studio be combined????

what does that accomplish.. i dont know.. especially since they are on two different floors ...

and.. where is the 4th garage.. the ones all the kids stuff fills...??? either the sports car goes.. or its going to end up at dads.. lol ...

just playing devils advocate .... congrats on the new house ...

ken

@kirkhall: 24x24 would be nice, but we currently fit the BMW and the minivan both fine in a 22' wide by 20' deep garage with shelving on both sides. But let's see if we have any square footage left after shrinking the house a little. I have a feeling whatever is leftover will get added to the garage and shed, since those are relatively cheap square footage and are apparently never big enough!

The required setback for the sides is 5' minimum on any one side and 12' total, so we are well within the requirements.

In my second bullet point under 'First Floor' above, I put exactly the same idea as what you said for switching the bench/'hooks' (which would actually be shoe storage) with the door to the garage. :)

Laundry room down makes more sense to us for various reasons (we've had an upstairs laundry room and it is nice though...); one reason is then long-term guests don't have to go upstairs to do laundry. We're also more likely to be hanging out in the dining room while doing laundry so it's easier to change cycles this way. It was definitely a tough decision though; ideally we'd have laundry both up and down! But we're talking about cutting square footage right now, not adding ;)

@ken_adrian: Wait, so are you telling us to downsize by removing the studio or upsize by adding a fourth garage stall? :P We will have room for a shed in the backyard hopefully. By the way, I'm not a piano teacher; I just play piano but since my teacher doesn't have many adult students and the recitals are small, usually we students just host the recitals.

I do think we could delete the studio and just use the office. The studio is intended to be an exercise/hobby room and office for computer/book stuff. But since the office is so large (partially to make the exterior look nicer), those things would fit in the office okay. The real issue is that my fiance really likes the flexibility of having a fourth bedroom upstairs ("what if we have three kids??"). But combining office and music is not easy (and doesn't really make sense) - those rooms are perfect rooms to put at the front of the house - something has to go there!

We received CAD drawings today. They haven't been changed much from the previous hand drawings except for a few nips and tucks. The square footage is now 4,397 SF total, right at our limit of 4,398 SF!

We will be meeting with our architect on Monday to figure out ways to cut more square footage and shift square footage around. I hope we'll be able to cut out about 200 SF from the house to allow for my shed in the backyard, and to expand the garage slightly. I already see space to cut from the second floor bedrooms that will easily give us another 60 SF and I'm sure we can figure out more! :)

The architect thinks the current mudroom arrangement is better than the one with the door shifted:
"In the mudroom, with the bench in between the kitchen access and the garage door, it was looking like a pinch point in the circulation, so I continued with having the bench in the secondary location next to the door. Overall, I think the mudoom not roomy, but still very functional."

Other notes
- The glass cabinet area is 5' wide.
- The master shower is 5' x 5'.
- The master vanity is 84".

Here is a link that might be useful: Bigger version

Second floor

Hi girlguineapig,

Nice plan. I'd suggest you might just forget the shed and add a garage door on the back side of the third stall to provide easier access to the backyard? For now, you can park 3 cars. When/if there are kids/stuff someone could park in the driveway if necessary. [For the garage planning, an SUV will need more room than a minivan, because of the way the doors open]
Good luck!

This post was edited by Oaktown on Fri, Dec 5, 14 at 15:08

Hi Oaktown,

Thank you :) I remember from my other thread that you are from the Bay Area too! Hope your build is going well.

Thanks for explaining why SUVs need more space. Guess we will just be uncool and have a minivan. ;) I would love a cute little shed, but let's see how we do on the rest of the house!

Ha, well we're uncool then too. We used to have our minivan and sedan in a 22x20 garage (outside dimensions), a friend once put her SUV in our garage but then had to climb out from the trunk!

Welcome! We are nearly complete a new construction/remodel project in the same part of the world.

I know you've already explained this but the distance to laundry would drive me crazy. A chute would be better than nothing. Alternatively it's probably not unheard of to have a second laundry set upstairs. Even a stacking one.

My only aesthetic nit is to rethink the waterline stone detail shown on your elevation as it looks too much like a typical builder detail than would be merited for a house of this size in this neighborhood. You would be better off using stone on a full height wall segment or other accent.

I second getting a stack w/d in a closet upstairs somewhere. Maybe put the little MBR closet in the studio and slide down the existing studio closet to make way for it in your MBR entry area. Even if you only stub it in and don't plan to use it now ...

Wow, is the laundry placement really that bad? I always thought I would be closer to the kitchen while doing laundry anyway and this way it's easy to take the clothes out to dry. We did have upstairs laundry before though...Thanks for the suggestion nightowlrn, something like that could totally work to add a stacked W/D upstairs.

Another possibility would be to put the stacked W/D in the "mini-kitchen" area next to the guest bedroom, and the real laundry room upstairs but I don't know where I would put it upstairs without cutting a bedroom. Somewhere in the front perhaps. It might make the mudroom layout better and allow more space for the garage as well...or a pantry in that corner! Hmmm!

This post was edited by girlguineapig on Sat, Dec 6, 14 at 19:26

@caben: Would something like this house in Los Altos (linked) look good? We really liked this look in person, although the colors in the photo look a little strange.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:2134109}}

Traditionally, stone has been used to build the foundation of houses, because it's a substantial building material. Even though today most stone is just a thin veneer "glued" onto a substrate and house foundations made of reinforced concrete, it looks best when it's used in a manner reminiscent of its historic purpose.

Often in a historic house, there would be a core of the home built from stone, and added onto more economically later with wood siding giving the classic version of siding variation. Today's custom homes typically start large and aren't added onto, but we try to add such interest by choosing a few exterior cladding materials to give that effect. There's been a trend over the past couple of decades in making a more complex building footprint with many bumpouts, so you can better achieve that historically accurate look by choosing some section of the house, perhaps the core, and taking the stone all the way up to some logical termination point. For some homes that could be all the way up to the roof, for some, the top of the first floor, and for others, below the first floor.

The "water line" treatment looks wrong because I don't think there is a historical style that builds a foundation halfway up a single storey. But there are plenty of houses imagined by designers and builders that feature this detail.

I recognize the house you posted a picture of, it looks like one built by infill spec house builder Kansky/Nash and marketed last year. IMO the waterline stone doesn't look good there either. Also I'm not sure it's real stone, could be a "cultured stone" product. Nothing wrong with that, just you might notice some repetition in the pattern eventually as they are man-made out of concrete. I think they are cheaper than natural stone, but if you're budget sensitive you could go for a more careful/limited application of the product and save even more money.

Here's a snap of the front of our house with our stone treatment. We took it up as far as the top of the lower storey because it looked like a "ledge" that the upper floor was built on:

{{gwi:2134110}}

Of course this is all subjective and I'm conveying my opinion, which is worth as much as anyone else's here who's not paying for your project. You could ask your architect though, and he/she should be able to describe the options.

Hi ggp, I will be in the minority and say I think the laundry is fine. We have ours in a similar location, in part because we like to line dry some of the time. Also, if you expect that parents will live with you the first floor laundry will work better for them -- it does in our house, but we are years ahead of you :-)

I will vote with caben for no stone/stone on foundation only. I don't think your house benefits from emphasis on width. Though I think it would look fine either way my personal preference would be no stone on the house because of the attached garage.

If you are considering stone/veneer at this point, I think that most manufactured stone is not recommended for applications at grade?

Caben, looking good!

Oaktown - thanks!

Yes IIRC manufactured stone product is supposed to be held above grade by a couple of inches. This yields a weird effect where the stone wall appears to "float" over nothing, which looks odd to me and shows that the material is not actually structural. A minor detail which undoubtedly most people don't notice.

Okay, after looking at more photos of houses I understand what you mean. What do you think of some stone in or underneath columns?

Once we finish hashing out the floorplan I will definitely return to discuss if stone anywhere makes sense. No stone at all saves money, so if that makes my house look less 'fake', then why not! :)