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Where to cut the budget?

cottonpenny
12 years ago

We are working with a GC to try to decide if we want to build a house. The prelim quote just came in based on a floor plan I picked and some specifications I wrote out. It's about $33,000 over what we wanted to spend.

It's 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths. All hardwoods on lower floor ($9.00 sq/ft). Ceramic tile in mudroom and bathrooms ($9.00 sq/ft). Built-ins in family room, study, mudroom. $4000 lighting allowance. $22k for kitchen and bathroom cabinets, $9k countertop allowance for kitchen and baths. It's 3400 sq ft total.

I think I could cut the cabinets a little - the quote was for painted inset with soft close and all drawers. The other stuff I don't know how much it typically costs so I don't know if the allowances are generous or no?

Any ideas where I could make up the rest? Where did you cut the budget?

Comments (33)

  • mydreamhome
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hardwoods @ $9.00 sq ft seems high to me--we were quoted $6.50 sq ft--GC is either pulling $2.50 sq ft off the top for himself or you've chosen a high end hardwood. You can definitely reduce that. I can't remember if you have bedrooms downstairs, if so, go with carpet in them--even with the higher end Smartstrand carpet, you will come out ahead. IS there a carpet allowance in there somewhere? $20 yd sounds like alot, but in the end, a little over 1/2 goes to labor & when you break the final down to sqft vs. sqyds you end up with something like $1.11 per sq ft for the carpet iself.

    Tile sounds in line--$6-6.50 sq ft for labor & $2.50-3.00 sq ft for materials.

    Depending on the built ins' cost & purpose, you may want to nix some of them altogether. For me, the mudroom one would stay. The study would go & if I already had an entertainment center I could use in the family room, those would go too. Both rooms are something that could easily be added down the road.

    Lighting-you may be able to come in under that, but you're going to have to find some great deals.

    Cabinets & countertops will be close--you'll be lucky not to go over that budget. 1 thing to check is to make sure you are dealing directly with the granite yard vs. going through the cabinet guy--this was where ours went partially wrong. We found out that since the builder contracts with the cabinet guy and the cabinet guy contracts with the granite guy, the granite cost went up 15%--the premium for those contracts. You also mentioned inset with soft close & all drawers--I would definitely make sure that was indeed what was quoted--that seems very low for those options (especially the inset). If the builder says that was what was quoted, make sure those specifications with a layout & elevation of the kitchen is duly noted and signed off on by both parties in the building contract with him. Those soft close things cost around $2.00 each according to our cabinet guy, so not much savings there really unless they are overcharging to start with.

    What about plumbing fixtures--those can get VERY pricey. You need to inquire about that allowance & make sure there's enough there.

    What were you quoted per sq ft for the house as a whole & where are you located in the nation? It could be that the builder is giving you a reasonable quote, a high quote or a lowball quote that will have you paying out for overages at every turn. No one can say without that info. You may find there is more wiggle room than you think.

    Another thought is to go back to the GC and explain that you're overbudget already with that quote (I'd up the amount you're over to say around $50,000). Then I'd ask him what you can do to help get the cost down (laugh & say "And I don't mean I want to paint the house myself!"--that's the first thing alot of people say not realizing what an undertaking it truly is and builders cringe when they hear it). We found that some builders in this market jacked the cost up for the quote just to see if you would bite, then if you didn't the cost would magically comes down with a little grumbling about profitability, but he'd reduce his cost just for you... If he comes down $50K, then you've got $17K wiggle room on the build if you go over.

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mydreamhome - thanks!

    I had specified maple for the hardwoods but I actually want the "natural" grade with a little variation - so I didn't think I had spec'd something expensive. I could go for standard red oak if it would be a substantial savings. The carpet allowance (for the upper floor) is $27/sq yard...high?

    Plumbing fixtures were
    kitchen sink $700
    prep sink $300
    kitchen faucet $500
    prep faucet $350
    vanity bowls $150 each
    powder room bowl $400
    master shower faucet $400
    guest and kids shower faucets $275
    master bedroom vanity faucet $275
    powder room vanity faucet $275
    other bathroom faucets $225.

    Appliances were $11.5k, but I already knew what I wanted on those so really don't want to cut that substantially.

    It's coming out to $200/sq ft counting the land. We're just outside of Pittsburgh, PA.

    I'm not sure cutting the built-ins will be that substantial of a savings...the built-in in the study would be a desk, which we don't own. And similar for the family room. So we would likely end up spending a fair amount of the difference on furniture anyway.

    Thanks for the advice on negotiating! I definitely don't want to paint myself...

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's the complete set of specs. Any feedback much appreciated!!!

    FOUNDATION
    FOOTER 10" X 24" 3000 PSI CONCRETE

    WALL HEIGHT 9' POURED WALL FOUNDATION PER BUILDER

    BRICK TO GRADE PER PLAN

    DRAINS EXTERIOR FRENCH DRAINS (INTERIOR-RADON MITIGATION ROUGH-IN)

    WATERPROOFING TUFF-N-DRI FOUNDATION COATING SYSTEM

    FLOOR 4" INTEG GARAGE / 6" ATTACHED GARAGE, 3 1/2" BASEMENT - CONCRETE, REINFORCED AS REQD

    BEAM STEEL WITH STANCHIONS

    FRAMING
    JOISTS 2 X 10" MINIMUM, PER PLAN

    FLOOR DECKS 3/4" T & G PLYWOOD

    ROOF STRUCTURE HAND FRAMED

    ROOF VENTILATION SOFFIT VENT TO THERMOSTATICALLY CONTROLLED POWER FAN (S)

    ROOF SHEATHING 1/2" PLYSCORE

    EXTERIOR STUDS 2 X 6" 16" O.C.

    INTERIOR STUDS 2 X 4" 16" O.C.

    GARAGE DOORS 1 - 16' 7' - 1 9' X 7' (WAYNE DALTON, THERMO WAYNE OR EQUIVALENT)

    WINDOWS PER PLAN WINDSOR WOOD, ALUMINUM CLAD W/ 10 CASEMENT SCREENS (20 YR. WARRANTY)

    PATIO DOORS WINDSOR WOOD, ALUMINUM CLAD W/
    SCREENS PER PLAN

    EXTERIOR SERVICE DOORS STEEL INSULATED

    INSULATION BOARD 7/16 O.S.B.
    EXTERIOR TREATMENTS
    SIDING/CEMENT LAP PER PLAN

    SOFFIT PER PLAN MYRTEC OR EQUIV. WITH VENT STRIP

    FACIA PER PLAN MYRTEC OR EQUIV. WITH VENT STRIP

    FIREPLACE(S) PER PLAN 1 MASONRY $2,000 FACING ALLOW FOR MANTLE HEARTH & SURROUND W/ GAS LOG LIGHTER

    CHIMNEY FLUE (S) 12 X 12 TERRA COTTA

    ROOFING 30 YR. GAF TIMBERLINE OR EQUIVALENT DIMENSIONAL FIBERGLASS ASPHALT SHINGLES

    GUTTERS ALUMINUM

    FRONT DOOR $2,400 ALLOWANCE (DOOR & SIDELIGHTS)

    PAINT 1 COAT OIL BASED PRIMER & FINISH

    BRICK $420 STANDARD SIZE $480 OVERSIZED PER THOUSAND ALLOW. GRAPE VINE JOINTS STANDARD

    INTERIORS
    INSULATION WALL - 6" BATTS (R21); CEILING - BATTS OR BLOWN FIBERGLASS (R30 / SLOPED R40 FLAT); GARAGE CEILING (R30);
    SOUND INSULATION - BATHS, PDR. RM & LAUNDRY RM* (* IF IN LIVING AREA)

    DRYWALL 1/2" DRYWALL GLUED, SCREWED

    PAINT 1 COAT PRIMER/EGGSHELL FINISH (LATEX)
    3 WALL COLORS / 2 TRIM COLORS/
    2 STAIN COLORS IF APPLICABLE
    DOORS PANEL SWING DOORS SOLID CORE MASONITE - PAINTED FINISH

    MOLDINGS (MDF)
    CROWN MOLDING FOYER ,STUDY & DINING ROOM - 2 PIECE DETAIL

    CHAIR RAIL WITH
    PANEL MOLD BOX DETAIL DINING ROOM

    BASEBOARD 5 1/4" COLONIAL MOLDED BASE
    WITH 1/4 ROUND ON HARD SURFACE AREAS

    CASING 361 COLONIAL MOLDED - PER PLAN

    BOOKSHELVES (PER PLAN) STUDY 12" SHELVES - PER PLAN
    10 LINEAL FT OF DESK AND BASE CABINETS

    EQUIPMENT

    HOT WATER TANK 75 GALLON GAS HIGH EFFICIENCY

    FURNACE GAS WITH AIR CONDITIONING LENNOX 95% EFFICIENCY - SIZED PER PLAN
    AIR CLEANER LENNOX FILTER SYSTEM

    ELECTRICAL 200 AMP MINIMUM SERVICE / SIZED PER
    PLAN

    EXHAUST FAN NUTONE 10 X 12 ALL BATHS

    APPLIANCES* $11,500 ALLOWANCE

    PLUMBING
    TUB - HALL KOHLER ACRYLIC FIBERGLASS (LAKEWOOD K1686 OR DEVONSHIRE K1184 TUB W/ CERAMIC WALLS
    GUEST SHOWER LAKEWOOD SHOWER STALL
    WATER CLOSET KOHLER WELLWORTH LITE ELONGATED

    SHOWER STALL MASTER BATH CERAMIC W/NICKEL TRIMMED SHOWER DOOR

    LAUNDRY SINGLE LAUNDRY TRAY/GAS OR ELECTRIC (220V)
    WASHER TRAY W/ DRAIN IN LIVING AREAS

    KITCHEN SINK $700 ALLOWANCE

    PREP SINK $300 ALLOWANCE

    KITCHEN FAUCET $500 ALLOWANCE

    PREP FAUCET $350 ALLOWANCE

    VANITY BOWLS $150 PER BOWL ALLOWANCE

    POWDER ROOM BOWL $400 ALLOWANCE

    FAUCETS
    MASTER SHOWER $400 ALLOWANCE
    OTHER SHOWERS $275 ALLOWANCE
    MAS &POW FAUCET $275 ALLOWANCE
    OTHER VANITY FAUCETS $225 ALLOWANCE

    WASTE LINES SCHEDULE 40 P.V.C.

    ICEMAKER ROUGH-IN WATER LINE TO REFRIGERATOR LOCATION, HOOKUP BY APPLIANCE SUPPLIER/HOMEOWNER
    BATH ROOM ROUGH-IN BASEMENT AREA, LOCATION PER BUILDER

    WATER LINES COPPER RISORS/1/2 COPPER LEADS/
    3/4 COPPER MAIN EXTERIOR FAUCETS FRONT - REAR - GARAGE (H & C MIXER)

    UTILITY SINK GARAGE OR STORAGE AREA

    STAIRCASE (MAIN) EXPOSED OAK TREADS W/ 1 TURNED VOLUTE ON ROUNDED BOTTOM TREAD
    (BSMT) BOX POPLAR/PINE STAIRCASE STAINED

    CABINETS & VANITIES
    KITCHEN & VANITY
    CABINETS & COUNTERTOPS $ 22,000 ALLOWANCE
    SPECIALTY COUNTERTOPS $ 9,000 ALLOWANCE
    MUD ROOM BUILT-INS $2,000

    MIRRORS LENGTH OF VANITIES IN BATH AREAS
    (MEDICINE CABINETS OPTIONAL)

    HARDWARE TOWEL BARS OR RINGS & PAPER HOLDERS,
    ALL BATHS TO MATCH PLUMBING FINISH
    $100 ALLOWANCE PER FULL BATH
    $ 75 ALLOWANCE PER POWDER ROOM

    FLOORING ALLOWANCES (INSTALL. & MATERIAL)
    FIRST FLOOR EXCEPT POWDER $9.50 PER SQ FT (MAPLE HARDWOOD)
    AND MUD ROOM
    TUB AND SHOWER WALLS 9.00 PER SQ FT

    LAUNDRY,MUD,POWDER,
    MASTERBATH,GUEST AND $9.00 PER SQ FT (CERAMIC )
    HALL BATH FLOORS

    CARPET $27.00 PER YARD (CARPET, PADDING & INSTALL)

    LIGHT FIXTURES $ 4,000 __ ALLOWANCE
    20 RECESSED LIGHTS
    1 DUAL EXTERIOR SPOTLIGHT
    DECORA PADDLE SWITCHES & OUTLETS
    1 FLOOR PLUG IN FAMILY ROOM OR ALT.
    DIMMERS ON ALL RECESSED LIGHTS,
    DINING ROOM & DINETTE
    CEILING LIGHT WIRING ALL BEDROOMS
    $500 UNDER CABINET LIGHT ALLOWANCE
    DOOR HARDWARE
    -INTERIOR SOLID BRASS HANDLESETS;
    INTERIOR LEVERSETS; DOUBLE KEYED
    DEADBOLTS ALL EXTERIOR DOORS
    (SOLID BRASS - $50 PER SET ALLOWANCE)

    CLOSET SHELVING VINYL COATED RACK SHELVING OR WOOD EQUIVALENT PER CLOSET PRINT
    (ISSUED PRIOR TO INSTALLATION)

    CEILING DRYWALL - SMOOTH FINISHED GLUED / SCREWED - FLAT WHITE PAINTED FINISH

    RETAINING WALLS KEYSTONE SPLIT STONE FACE BLOCK OR EQUIVALENT IF REQUIRED PER SITE

    LANDSCAPING $5,000 ALLOWANCE

    SPRINKLER SYSTEM OPTIONAL

    DRIVEWAY CONCRETE - 12 FEET WIDE TO TURN AROUND

    WALKWAYS POURED CONCRETE 3'6" FROM FRONT DOOR TO DRIVEWAY

    DECK/PATIO PER PLAN


    SECURITY SYSTEM GUARDIAN SILVER PACKAGE "B"

    PHONE JACKS ALL BEDROOMS, KITCHEN, FAMILY ROOM, STUDY, GARAGE - 8 LOCATIONS
    CAT 5 HOME RUNNED

    CABLE TV PRE-WIRE ALL BEDROOMS, KITCHEN, FAMILY ROOM & STUDY 8 LOCATIONS (FINISH BY CABLE CO)
    HOME RUNNED

    SMOKE DETECTORS PER LOCAL CODE (MONITORED AVAILABLE
    AND OPTIONAL) 110 W/BATTERY BACK UP

    GARAGE DOOR OPENERS ROUGH-IN 2 LIFT MASTERS INCLUDED

    ADDRESS PLATE CUT LIMESTONE

  • john_wc
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you obtained pricing from other builders?

    How much per SF not including land?

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you thought about finding a slightly smaller plan that might come in, under budget? Are there any similar plans that might work? Not always the easiest thing to do...but sometimes a smaller space is better than cutting back on materials and finishes.

    Also, does you current budget include the unexpected costs that come up, during construction? Many people recommend having at least 10% of the total budget set aside, for all the things that weren't anticipated in the initial budget. So, if your budget is $250,000...then $25,000 should be added for the 'unexpected' making a budget of $275,000. Some people recommend even more...depending on whether water, sewer, electrical hookups etc. are already on site. Hope this helps.

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    John - $167 per sq ft not including land. We have not gotten pricing from other builders because the lot we want is owned by this builder, so we do not have a choice. does that sound reasonable?

    Lavender - yes, I thought about it...I also wonder if there is a way to shrink the plan I like cause I really do like the layout...I wouldn't mind to come in at about 3000-3200 sq ft, but I don't know how much that would save.

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oops, forgot to answer second question.
    the quote is $33k over where we are comfortable spending, knowing that we may go over.

  • kirkhall
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What area of the country?
    For our area, that would be a very reasonable (to low price)/sq ft. And, the carpet allowance is just right if not low.
    What about toilets and showers/tubs? Is that included in your bath fixture cost at all?
    I think with all these "allowances" rather than actual amounts, you are going to find you are going to go over.

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kirk - we are 15 min outside of pittsburgh, pa. the builder specified all kohler bath fixtures (toilets, tub, shower enclosure) and ceramic tile for master bath shower.

    I'm not sure what you mean by allowances vs. actual amounts?

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    An allowance is like an estimate (I believe) that the builder is giving you for the budget. The actual price is what you end up paying and it can be higher or lower than the allowance...of course, if it's higher, you have to pay the difference.

    Can you post your plan? Maybe we can help you find something quite similar, but a little smaller. Or when Summerfield gets back...maybe just trim off a bit of what you don't need :)

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sure. Here's the plan. I don't think I'd miss it if it were 10% smaller. We're going to enlarge the laundry room and br#2 and br#3 in order to cut down the size of the master bedroom...

  • laurensmom21
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is a nice plan. The main way we are cutting costs is diying a lot of it ourselves. Are you or your hubby handy at all? Could you lay your own tile or hardwood? It's really not that hard if you have the time to do it yourself. You'd be amazed at the amount of money you could save in labor costs.

    $9 sq ft for hardwood seems really high to me. Check out Lumber Liquidators or other online flooring sources. We bought our handscraped maple fooring from builddirect.com for $4 sq ft several years ago.

    Your faucet & sink prices seem high also. Our faucets are not top of the line by any means, but are still quite nice and they were around $125 or so (hubby installed them himself). I'm sure you could find a nice kitchen sink for way under $700. Check out ebay and faucets.com or even craigslist. If you live in a metro area, you can always find great deals on materials, appliances, doors, etc...

    My advice is to spend your money on the things that are unchangeable at a later date. for instance, you can always update your faucets & light fixtures later - but it's pretty hard to add more sq footage.

    good luck!

  • mydreamhome
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for posting those specs! Here's what I see right off the bat...

    Windows--If you like the clad, have the Marvin Integrity windows quoted. Their cladding is actually a fiberglass type material that looks very similar to aluminum clad, have the same if not better warranty, a better track record vs. Windsor & should come in significantly lower. Windows were my hot button & we looked very seriously at Windsor, Pella, Marvin Ultimate, & Jeld-Wen aluminum clad. See the link below for a condensed rundown on the research--it's the 1st reply in the thread. If you'd like to cut the window cost even further, all vinyl would literally slash the price. Will you use the screens? If not, you can cut approx $20 for each window. To give you an idea of savings based on our house: All aluminum clad windows (from Windsor, Jeld-Wen, & Pella) w/ GBG including patio doors ~$35K, Marvin Integrity clad windows w/ GBG including patio doors ~$20K, All vinyl w/ GBG & fiberglass flush glaze patio doors ~$13K. Marvin also offers a 10% rebate for builders who are using them for the 1st time. Marvin Integrity Website is www.integritywindows.com.

    Patio Doors--I found a great alternative to the aluminum clad doors that looks just as nice IMO but at a MUCH cheaper cost. They are fiberglass with a flush glazed window made by Plastpro. The flush glazed window is what makes it look almost identical to the aluminum clad patio doors. (These look nothing like the doors with the plastic frame around them with the screw hole fillers that are never put in right and look so cheap.) I want to say the doors ran about $550 each vs. over $1,000 each for the aluminum clad ones. They match my windows perfectly even though they are from different manufacturers. I was able to see them in the local ProBuild showroom. According to their website, there is a ProBuild in White Oak, PA. You can see the doors online at www.Plastpro.com. If you'd like, I can take a photo of my doors & post it for you.

    Hardwood Floors--the maple explains the $9.00 per sq ft. You could go with a select grade white or red oak and stain it naturally for significantly less.

    Brick-Price seems high. We went with an upper end General Shale Brick & the contractor's price was $320 per 1000. Now that allowance listed may include your mortar & sand too and possibly even labor. I would make sure you ask what the allowance includes & ask for a copy of the invoive from the brick supplier to verify what was actually spent. Of course, you can ask the supplier ahead of time & see if they will tell you what they are charging your builder--afterall you're just wanting to make sure you stay on budget.

    Paint-Ditch the eggshell and go latex flat

    Doors-Use solid core masonite on bedrooms, powder room, door from garage into house & laundry. Use hollow core masonite on all others. Hollow core are significantly less expensive. You need the solid core to help reduce sound transmission, otherwise hollow core will perform well for you.

    Sinks/Faucets/Shower-Hop on Overstock.com & efaucets.com to see if you can get what you want for less than what the allowances are. Skip HD & Lowe's though as their faucets tend to be of lesser quality even if made by the same manufacturer. (Examples of deals I landed: I got my Kohler Bancroft bathroom sinks for $5 each on clearance @ Lowe's, my Kohler Purist tub was a plumbing supplier showroom floor model I got for $900, I picked up a Kohler Undertone 18" x 18" sink for the laundry for $20 in the Bargain Bin at a local plumbing warehouse, I saved over $100 on the laundry room sink faucet by going through IraWoods.com--they had it in on sale in their "Attic".) All of those savings really start to add up--they were all exactly what I had already researched & had on my list of wants.

    Bathroom Hardware-You can probably save about 1/2 going to TJ Maxx, Tuesday Morning or even Overstock.com

    Retaining Walls--Does your site require them? Looks like they are figured in whether it does or not with no allowance listed.

    Basement--Looks like you have one specced. Do you really need it with the square fotage you already have? Yes, they are nice to have for future expansion opportunities, & it's cheap square footage relatively. If you were to forgo it, you're probably looking at around $60,000 in savings right there. If you're set on a basement, what about a partial one vs. a full one?

    Cabinetry & Countertops--I think you will end up going over here. I really think the allowance is too low. I'd plan for at least another $5,000 on the granite & another $10,000 on the cabinets. I really doubt the inset cabinet doors and all drawers were included to calculate the allowance listed, but I could be wrong.

    Reducing square footage won't save as much as you think unless you're cutting areas that really count--kitchen & baths. Those are the pricey areas that run the cost up. Your everyday rooms--bedrooms, family room, hallways, etc (the areas you would likely try to cut sq footage from) usually come in around $70 sq ft.

    I know this was alot, but I hope it helps!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Window Research Results Link

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mydreamhome - Thanks for your very detailed reply!!!

    I had asked builder about windows...IIRC, he said that he thought Marvin windows were the best product out but that it was something about the distributor being less than ideal...will have to address that again with him. I had assumed they were more expensive. Good to know that cutting the windows would be a big $$ saver so I'll have to investigate that further.

    Builder swears that my cabinet allowance is for painted inset...the original allowance was $9k(!!) so I felt that was pretty low. Good to know that is cutting it close though, cabinetry is not an area I really want to skimp on.

    We don't have a finished basement specced, but we do want it to be ready for the future, so he would do a rough-in for a bathroom, etc. It's a downsloping lot so it would be a walk-out.

    Do you save money with flat paint versus eggshell? I never knew...

    I didn't do anything with the brick allowance - he showed me houses with what he said were his "standard" brick choices and they looked nice so I just said I would stick with that. May be worthwhile to see if there is anything cheaper though.

    I do intend to save on bath fixtures, etc., but it just seems like I can save a few hundred here and there, but not $30k, you know?

  • david_cary
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cutting basement won't save $60k. We have a larger basement and the cost was more like $50k and you still need to have a foundation. The further north you are increases the foundation cost enough that a basement really isn't much more (you have to get below the freeze line. Given your lot, you are not saving much by cutting basement. I'd think it would be $10k.

    Cabinets are a pretty variable price. I paid $28k which was for a slightly bigger house (with slightly bigger kitchen bath areas) and that included a study. Lots of drawers, frameless, painted maple with glaze. But our first quote was $35k and our cabinet maker went belly up. So but my guesstimate, you would be okay at $28k or so for inset (which is a significant upcharge usually) - but you might be okay at your estimate.

    Our granite was $11k for mixed levels with a larger area - so I think you are okay.

    $30k seems like a lot to cut by getting deals. It takes a lot of time and hassle to get those deals and you drive your builder and subs crazy. If you have the time, it is worth it but you are probably looking at $10k in savings.

    I agree that your hardwood is pretty high. I think we have wide walnut grade 2 site finished for less than $9 (or just about). Tile is on the low side.

    That plan looks like a production builder's plan and they may not let you do any of your own buying. I say that because of how many "options" there are. I love that you don't have a Jacuzzi tub but I really hate the large master bedroom (that is just me and you didn't ask so I'll shut up now).

    Are you 4 sides brick? You can cut out the back side for an easy chunk of change. I think our was $10k - that 3 story back costs a lot.

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mydreamhome - again, good to know! Do cabinet prices vary per the area of the country? Inset is gorgeous but it's not a must-have...I could be ok with full-frame too but wanted the quote to allow for it if I decided I wanted to go that way. Or I have seen some half and half that are pretty too. I do wish I could see the cabinets that will fall into that price range. I'm just so worried about getting crappy ones like we have in our rental - so cheap there's not even a shelf on the lowers!!

    David - I don't think it's really an option to cut the basement. It's pretty standard here so it would be quite weird not to have it. Thanks for your input on the cabinets - this def warrants a closer look before we sign anything to make sure I can get what I want. We are 4 sides brick but I don't think cutting the back will save that much because vinyl is "not allowed" by the HOA so it would have to be hardiboard or whatever. Ha - I don't like the huge master either - plan to expand the other bedroom and laundry room to cut it a bit.

    Laurensmom - unfortunately, we are not handy at all! And don't really have time to diy to any significant extent...My DH and I both work full time++, and we have a 3 month old son, so all our free time is spent with him! I wish I were more handy though - it sounds like a great way to save money!

  • mjtx2
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our plumber told us Kohler was the only brand sold at the big box stores that was the exact product at either those stores or plumbing supply houses. I confirmed this with Kohler. So if you get Kohler products at, say, Lowes, the quality should be the same as Kohler anywhere else, with better pricing.

  • tncraft
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mydreamhome... I'm really surprised with the quotes you got with Pella and Windsor. Our Marvin Integrity came in higher than Pella and Windsor. I don't remember the Windsor quote, but the Integrity Wood-Ultrex came back $4-5k higher than the Pella aluminum clad. Regardless, we are okay paying more on the window to get the Integrity. I have not gotten a confirmation from the sales rep, but I heard the Integrity has a limited lifetime warranty to original owners. Sounds great, if that's the case. :)

  • scrappy25
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    great thread! I have learned from the questions and answers.

    mydreamhome, could you post a picture of your windows and patio doors?

  • GreenDesigns
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your finishes are fairly realistic, and your overall home cost is quite reasonable, or even too cheap in some areas of the country. You will still need to figure in at least 15% on top of the price given to you by the builder for overages. Perhaps your budget is more realistic for a more builder's grade type of home than the level of build that you are envisioning. Going builder's grade with the finishes would be the only way I know of of cutting enough out of your price to reach your number plus your contingency given the simplistic style and size of the plan.

    Building new is always costlier than purchasing existing, and if you are at the limit of your budget, maybe buying existing is the better way to stretch your budget for your want list. You should at least check out existing homes for sale. In most of the country right now, the cost per square foot of existing homes vs new is a no brainer.

  • chicagoans
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You should verify this with the builder, but all those bumpouts could be adding to the cost because they make the rooflines more complex. For example, on the front of the house you have 5 different front walls. It's pretty clear you're not drawn to plans with one flat wall across the front, but do you need that much variation? Could you keep the garage one flat wall, and maybe reconfigure the master closet and bath so that you don't have a bumpout there? It might not make any difference, but you could at least ask the builder if simplifying those lines would make any difference.

  • david_cary
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When I was doing the comparable with the back wall, I was talking Hardi. It was about $10k more for brick. Now our house is bigger and the ceilings are likely taller but it would still be $6 or $7k.

    Cabinets from major manuf will not vary but if you are in an area with cheaper custom makers, that can save a lot. Possibly your builder is talking Merrilat and most people are using more expensive cabs. A lot of times there are just different expectations. In the South, we expect end panels on every open wall and possibly more complicated door styles. We have heavier crown and light rails. Other things that are done that cost money are boxing out fridges and decorative hoods. You can't expect that everyone is building the same.

    Generally building costs are less in the South so cabinets are relatively more. We build more ornate (I feel) and that transitions to cabinets. Since the south has more new construction, there are relatively more southerners here than you might think.

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    GreenDesigns - yes, we are looking at other existing construction as well as a spec house. The problem is that the lot is in the neighborhood that we really love the best - due to mature landscaping, convenience to our workplaces, best schools, etc. They always say "location, location, location", right? The other houses for sale in that neighborhood are above our budget or on lots we do not like. The number that we are aiming for does take into account potential overages. It's helpful information that the specs are fairly in line with the prices!

    Chicagoans - thank you for the advice! I will check and see if that will make a difference.

    David - how interesting about cabinets! I am a New Englander by birth and I actually like more simple styles...I have real Shakers in my family tree so Shaker-style for me! I am certainly not married to the idea of brick on the back so good to know it is a savings. Much rather have a range or something I would actually use.

  • robin0919
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    cp...you might want to ck out your local window mfgs. Brand names can be 2x or more for the brand! Local made windows can be just as good. Wouldn't hurt to see what they have and get several quotes.

  • mydreamhome
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    tncraft-I probably should have clarified on the windows--we compared Pella's Architect line (top of their line without going custom), Jeld-Wen SiteLine EX (top of their line without going custom), and Windsor Pinnacle Clad (top of their line without going custom) in the aluminum clad world of windows & coordinating patio door quotes. Lower end lines probably would result in lower prices more in line with Integrity, however at that point I think you end up with a lesser quality product compared to the Integrity. Just my opinion:-)

    scrappy-I'll see if I can snap a few photos for you Tuesday or Wednesday & get them posted.

  • david_cary
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cabinet style is definitely regional and shaker style would be out of place in a higher end home down here. A simple door style saves you some money for sure. We went somewhat modern which should be simpler but our cabinets have 7 lines of glazing on the door - that is the door has enough detail to have 7 boxes on each face of glaze. That isn't cheap. I think we have like 9 end panels - all with the same level of detail.

    Probably not what you usually see in your area and definitely not what it sounds like you want.

  • athensmomof3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I second the recommendation to look at already built homes. You are trying to cut quite a bit from a house where your allowances are conservative, if not a little low (except for your hardwood - we are doing 5" white oak in whatever the highest grade is with minimum 7' lengths and it is 6.00 a square foot or so).

    As far as cabinets go, that seems pretty low too. We are doing custom cabinets and got lots of prices and that is not enough, at least around here, for cabinetry for all your bathrooms and kitchen. You have a big kitchen with a big island - I would think that would take up most of the budget right there.

    We found no real difference in cost with door style - maybe because shaker inset is all the rage in Atlanta and slightly outside (where we live), particularly in higher end homes - funny that your part of NC is not like that David - my sister is in Charlotte and it is the same there) - although there is an up charge for glazes (which we did not want). . .

    Good luck!

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't tell you all how helpful this is!

    We are still processing this decision - looking at other homes as well - and wondering whether we should cut down the size of the house or increase our budget. Builder seems to think we can get things down about $20-25k by scrimping and shaving the plan a little bit. That still puts us well below our maximum to spend, but doesn't give us the full 10% overage in reserve. Of course, he swears we will not need that.

    The other option is to convert the plan (or choose a new plan) with an integral garage - garage on the basement level instead of on the house level. It's a pretty substantial savings because of the decreased size of the exterior and decreased size of the foundation. A 3 car garage takes up a lot of brick!

    Obviously it's less convenient but my 90 year old grandma has her house like that and has managed fine for the past 40 years she's lived there. We are relatively young so stairs are not necessarily a huge obstacle. What do you guys think?

  • athensmomof3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would not do the garage under the house. It would hurt resale and I would hate every minute of it! I have 3 kids and dealing with multiple trips to the car for kids and groceries would be terrible if you had to go up and down a flight of stairs each time. It is not unusual for me to have to make 10 trips to and from the car to carry in groceries, etc. Think of doing that carrying a car seat or with a baby on your hip - yikes!

    Have you talked to the bank to figure out what the payment difference is? With rates so low, it may be quite a small amount. . . on the other hand, if your budget is tight enough that building a house would stretch it to the uncomfortable level, maybe wait a few years?

    It is no cheaper to build now than it has been, generally, but is much cheaper to buy. Can you find something well under budget with a good floor plan and good bones to redo?

    Finally, after looking at your plan, I think you can do better if you are a new family. If you have any thoughts of adding children, where will the toys go? Where will they hang out with their friends? I think you need a dedicated playroom or kids den (it doesn't need to be big) to give you longevity in your house. . . Or is this going to be in the basement?

  • cottonpenny
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Athensmom - you are probably right...I just struggled in from our current unattached garage with baby, purse, and breastpump and the stuff from target is still in the trunk!

    It's not so much a matter of the payment or stretching our budget so much...we want to be able to stay under the jumbo loan amount to get a better interest rate. That's why we're being strict about the cutoff.

    There is unfortunately very little under budget in the neighborhood we want to be in...

    Yes, the kids' playroom would be in the basement mostly. We'd be able to finish it by the time our son got to the age he would have friends over.

  • athensmomof3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are ways around the jumbo loan limit if you have a friendly banker :). You can put the max on the conforming loan and piggyback another loan (at a higher interest rate, usually, or interest only with the idea that you can pay a little extra and eliminate that portion and keep the low 30 year rate). . . Sometimes they will call it a home equity line and it will float or they will treat it as a second mortgage with a fixed rate.

    This sort of thing will require a banker who is willing to hold your loan and not sell it on the secondary market - like a local community bank where you are a good local credit risk. . .

  • phoggie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing I would never do to cut costs is to put the garage in the basement. You may have no trouble doing stairs right now, but who knows when an accident or something happens that you are not able to do them~~