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ramc_gw

Floor plan - thoughts wanted

RaMc
9 years ago

Apologies that this isn't in what seems to be the "standard" format. If the format is awful, please let me know.

I've attached the attic (master, office/guest, two baths, laundry; dormers are a bit speculative) and the main (yes, there are two living areas separated by pocket doors - I really hate "great rooms.") We must have a full bath and guest room on the main level; my father is in a wheelchair and my m-i-l is headed there too. There will likely be a walkout basement, because that's normal for Colorado, but except for the utilities, not much would be down there (thinking ahead for resale; I'm not a fan of basements.) The furniture pictured represents what we already own and will use.

We already own the land; the best view is to the west/southwest. Otherwise, no constraints.

Happy to provide more info, but don't want to overwhelm anyone!
Thanks,
Ranee

Comments (21)

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's the main floor.

  • mrspete
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't work up a whole lot of love for this house:

    - In Colorado, don't you need a coat closet for guests? For a cold-weather area, I'd think you'd need more than the modest mud room.

    - You walk in the front door, and what greets you? An off-center view of the bathroom. I think that's a big, expensive switchback stair only feet away -- why not move it into the position to present a nice view for guests as they enter? In fact, none of the areas have nice sight lines.

    - As you move into the house, that tiny dining room isn't adjacent to the kitchen. Is it big enough for you? It might be -- we're planning a small dining area, but we're in the South and will have a larger space outside. You can't really plan to extend this table when people come over because it'll block the walkway. Because this area works as a hallway, you need to stick to a NARROW table. I'd consider a banquette against the back wall. OR -- better yet -- move the dining area forward to the window area, which makes more sense: It's a larger area, and it's closer to the kitchen.

    - Typically people like the kitchen /pantry to be convenient to the everyday entrance. You're going to have to weave your way through the mudroom, the entryway, between the dining area and sitting area, then through a fairly narrow entrance into the kitchen. No thanks.

    - I'm thinking that the back corner room -- living room? -- is where you'll spend most of your time. Why, then, don't you orient this room towards what you say are your best views?

    - In this back corner room you've placed the TV as far as possible from the seating area. I'd think you'd want it on the wall shared with the guest room.

    - Concerns about the guest /future master: I'm fine with a small master, but this one has three doors -- it will seriously limit furniture placement. In your "first master", you have a large closet and bath -- when you eventually move downstairs, are you going to be okay with "downsizing"?

    - Upstairs you have a "seating area" in both bedrooms . . . why then do you ALSO have a seating area at the top of the stairs? And remember, you also had a small seating area downstairs. Do you really need FOUR small seating areas?

    - Flip the washer /dryer to the opposite side of the laundry room. This'll keep your plumbing lines consolidated into the wall shared with the bathroom, saving you money. Also, reconsider the 30" space in front of the washer/ dryer. That's awfully small.

    - Master bath: I think the big problem here is that the bathroom has "flow problems". A bathroom this size really can't afford two entrances. Where will you hang shower towels? I'd want some IN ROOM storage.

    - The upstairs office /guest bath is tiny . . . yet you have a wasted-space hallway leading to it. Incorporate that hallway (and the unidentified box next to it) into the bathroom, and you can have a comfortable bathroom. Since the upstairs is just two bedrooms and two baths, I'd also switch the door to have the bathroom enter directly into the bedroom.

    Really, this house could stand some editing!

  • methoddesigns
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This plan needs a lot of work. I don't know what program that is, but it is not good. I will just do one room. The upstairs bath. Right off the bat you walk in and where are the switches going to be? You can't put them to the left because that will be too close to a water source. Secondly, if that corner shower is bigger than 2'6" X 2'6", it won't work. I don't even know how the shower would work if it is that small, plus where would the door to it open? I don't see how you will have any room between the shower and the vanity. There is no storage to speak of in there either (towels, hand towels, toilet paper, etc.) Also need to look at space for the toilet to make sure it meets code. I am not a fan of opening a door and seeing a toilet either. I also don't see any 2X6 plumbing walls anywhere.

    I am not trying to be mean, but there are a lot of things that were not thought of when this was designed. I know it is not easy, I have been doing it for over a decade, and still miss things from time to time. You really need to start at the front door and vision yourself walking through it. Where are you going to put switches, furniture, storage, etc. Also need to be mindful of how much room is actually needed for a staircase. There are codes and you need to remember that there needs to be extra clearance for the handrail. You don't want to get too large of spans on the first floor. Engineerd beams can get very costly. I also don't like laundry rooms on the second floor for leaks and load purposes. You need to beef up the floor system or your house will shake when the washer is spinning.

    Sorry, I am going on and on. Just step back and really look at everything to see if it makes sense and picture yourself walking through it. Good luck.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmmm. Easy to expand the bath (the sink should have been on the left wall; not sure how it ended up on the entry wall), either into the office/bedroom or into the hall (that unidentified box is a linen closet but I'm not attached) and also to put the laundry on the other side. I will do that right away.
    I'd be willing to move the stairs to the right (and yes, we did the math) but I want that downstairs bath attached to the office/bedroom, and the stairs have to come up in the center of the house or there isn't enough headroom. The door to the bathroom would be mostly closed most of the time anyway. I don't like walking into a house and seeing the living areas, thus the entry hall (which does have a 5' wide opening into the dining/sitting.) The dining and sitting could be easily swapped, but I like the chairs in front of the window better.
    Don't want a coat closet - have one now, never use it - and it has never bothered me to walk through the house from the garage to get to the kitchen. It's not THAT far. And my parents have almost the same set-up. Opinions are split on upstairs laundry rooms; my opinion is, if you do it right, it'll be fine. The house is 32 feet deep; I was under the impression that was not too bad (it's that or do a bump out; not sure which is more expensive: non-rectangular house, or engineered beams.)
    I have done all the measurements, and am okay with things like the small entry into the kitchen (it's over three feet.) The doorway to the kitchen in the house I live in now is 32" and has tall things on both sides as you go through. The "long" distance from the den's chairs to the TV is what we have now. In fact, a great many measurements are what we have now.
    I did not put in the 2x6 walls for plumbing, but I will do that, as well as think about light switches.
    My husband and I have lived in 18 different houses in 27 years...we know how we live, and there are some things that we know we want - like very few windows in the room with the TV, so the view is almost irrelevant - but it is interesting to hear the points of view - yes, I've thought of that, but not THAT, etc -
    What design program would be better? I have a Mac.

  • methoddesigns
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It all depends. I use Autocad which is very expensive and probably not very user friendly if you don't do it for a living. Not sure if you plan on using your plans for construction or having somebody redraw them. You could always use the student version of Autocad which is free. I don't know too much about other programs. I just find the plans a little messy and hard to read.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, we'd have someone redraw them, obviously, someone who could make sure all the plumbing walls were right, etc. All I wanted from these was for someone to point out that the kitchen is all the way across the house (yes, that's okay) and that the laundry ought to be flipped (yes, good idea.)

  • methoddesigns
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wouldn't worry too much about plumbing lines. It all depends on where the water heater or heaters will be. Typically they run seperate lines off everything and tie them into a main one. If the water heater was to the left side of your house, flipping the washer and dryer to the other side would actually make the lines longer. The little bit of cost really isn't worth worrying about.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    At the moment the utility stuff is pretty much straight down (from the laundry) in the basement, but subject to change. I've got all that plumbing in that small bath on one wall now though, which I assume helps. And I reworked the master closet so it only has one door, NOT in the bathroom...

  • mrspete
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Stairs coming up the middle of the house: No, they don't HAVE TO be placed in the center; in fact, they're really off-center now. We are talking about a new build, right? You're not forced to build around something that already exists.

    About the entry: You say you don't want the entry to have a clear view into the living areas. Okay, some people like that. Other people like the openness of the entry being connected to the living areas. But no one likes an empty hallway with a view of the bathroom (even if the door's closed). You can have a "private" entry that isn't a plain hallway.

    How to do that: The most common thing, of course, is to place the staircase in the entryway. I'm thinking of my aunt and uncle's house too: It's MCM, and their entry is lovely. When you walk in the double doors, you're staring at the back side of a huge stone fireplace, and in its center is a piece of artwork. You can walk around the fireplace, either to the left or the right, to enter the living room . . . or to the left to enter the bedroom hall, or the right to enter the kitchen. Because the door is glass, the entry hall is filled with light. You can't see into any of the living areas from the entry hall, but it's a nice entryway. You have a lovely focal point ahead of you, you have light. It's inviting, comfortable -- not just a way to reach the living areas.

    As for measurements: You say many of these measurements match what you have now. Okay, but they're clearly not ideal. I mean, the dining room table is essentially stuck back in a corner, hindered by a pathway, and the TV is on the far end of the room. When you're building, you have the chance not to have "what we have now, and it's okay" but to have things "just right or optimal".

    What I'm hearing is that you've already made up your mind that you like these things, and you don't really want to hear opinions.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Regarding the staircase, sorry, I was unclear - I meant centered (more or less) back to front, since the upper floor is not a "whole" floor but basically only an attic room - with sloped ceilings. That said, there's probably a little wiggle room, and I love the idea of the stonework fireplace (even if, on the other side, in my case, it wasn't a fireplace.) Sounds beautiful!
    The dining table - I think what you're seeing in the TV room is a little pub table, about 24 inches around, that I use sometimes for eating in front of the TV. The actual dining table is in the other room (it is 3' x 3' and does expand, but not very far.)
    We are trying to #1, build on a budget, so the house has to be small and uncomplicated. And #2, get certain things the way we want them, like the TV room, which works for us. Some *other* things - like the fantastic entry - were a lesser priority in the design. That said, because you've all mentioned these things, I'm taking a harder look at the entry to see what I can do better there, and I've redone the small bathroom and the master closet upstairs, and I'm reconsidering the kitchen. So, I value other opinions, but some things *are* the way we want them, and I felt I must explain why.

  • pixie_lou
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If your views are to the south and west, why stick the garage on the west side? Flip the whole plan, and give the kitchen and living room the optimal views. Even upstairs, you are giving the optimal, views to the guest room, not the master.

    As for the front entry, as Mrs. Pete said, it doesn't have to be grand. But I think I'd rather see an unfinished Sheetrock wall as opposed to a bathroom door.

    Where is the dining room? With the 3x3 table?

    You mention dad is in a wheel chair and mom is headed there soon. I can't really read your dimensions on the plan, but is there enough room in the bathroom for a wheel chair to turn? Enough room in the kitchen for a wheelchair? Enough room around the table for a wheelchair to access?

  • mrspete
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What you're talking about is a "story and a half". The half isn't really an attic, given that it's going to be built for full-time habitation.

    Yeah, I see the table -- and I like the name "pub table". It's descriptive. The issue is that this small square table is placed in a spot that's not going to work comfortably: The main downstairs walkway cuts between the table and the sitting area . . . which prevents you from expanding the table.

    I understand building on a budget, but that means that a good layout with a flow that works is all the more important.

    With budget in mind, here are the things I'd attack:

    - You have four "small sitting areas" -- one downstairs, one in each of the upstairs bedrooms, and one in the upstairs landing. I'd get rid of three of them. I think I'd keep the downstairs sitting area . . . and I'd lose the gables on the upper floor . . . and just have two bedrooms, each with windows on the end of the house. That would also simplify the roofline. This would be a monumental money saver.

    - I'd downsize the entry significantly by moving the door more towards the sitting area -- this will also free up some space for the pub table -- though it won't bring it any closer to the kitchen.

    And here's an entirely new idea: Swap the downstairs bedroom and the kitchen locations. This will consolidate your plumbing all to the center of the house, AND it will get the table and the kitchen closer together, AND it will give the bedroom windows on two sides.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually had the house flipped to begin with, but the winter wind comes from the north west. Putting the garage on the northwest end creates a barrier, and also allows a porch on the south/southeast side (where the view isn't bad either.) However, if I lose the dormers as MrsPete suggests (HUGE fan of a simplified roof line) then it is true the master would have a better view from the other end. It would also be colder in the winter, however, because I'd lose the southern exposure.
    The square dining room is 3x3 table, expandable. We don't often have company, but when we do, it's generally a LOT of company, so we end up rearranging and setting up other tables anyway. The walkway between the table and the sitting area...yeah, that's a compromise.
    Yes to all questions regarding the wheelchair, at least as far as my dad's manual one is concerned. Not sure about an electric.
    If I said that downstairs bathroom door led to a closet, would anyone think to object? It's over 16 feet away from the front door...
    I like the idea of making the wall to your right (as you walk in) shorter to make the entry shorter, but then I'm not sure there will be room for the piano on the other side. I think I could bring it down a foot...will check that again. Could possibly put the piano in the entry, to the left of the bathroom, on the stair wall, but would lose some railing.
    Really want the bathroom and bedroom attached, so that prevents putting the bedroom/office where the kitchen is (as far as plumbing goes.) But - speaking of complete re-works - I've also thought about doing a true two-story for the main house (regular roof over the garage) and then I'd be able to put that staircase any old place I wanted, plus gain windows on the top front for the view without worrying about dormers.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can reduce the right hand entry wall down to 6' long and make the opening 5'6" AND increase the length of the wall on the other side of the opening to a little over 5' (or leave the opening at 5' and make the 5'6"...not sure which is better.) Leaves 6 inches clearance on either end of the piano, and more space for the square dining table. If those chairs in the sitting area were smaller...but they're what we have right now.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WELL, just for grins, what do you think of this rework? It's the same footprint, the stairs are in the same place (so the upstairs is the same at present), and the orientation of the Den to the Office is the same - I should have mentioned that my husband wants that set up because he can sit at his desk and see the TV through the French doors :) I can see a couple of things I'm not...sold on, but would like to know if this looks any better to you all...?

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Swap kitchen and DR? Oherwise, there'd be a lot of traffic thru the kitchen. Also, when you have company you can add table(s) more easily. Can't really read the dimensions, but maybe an L and a small island for the kitchen can work.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes...or the island could be drastically reduced in length, which could divert traffic through the dining room. The original plan had the walkway through the sitting/dining...not sure this one is better, other than the mud room is much closer to the kitchen.

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I come up with something for you for the main floor.

    Kitchen close to Mudroom, and bath and laundry next to it. Den got much smaller, but I made sure your DH can see the TV from the office lol. I have 7'10 for the stairs. Later noticed you have 8', but left it as is. Since I'm no expert there are zillion other things I missed anyway.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sena01, my goodness. I thought everyone had given up. It's amazing what you've been able to do with the place! I will have to study this and show it to my husband. I see the bathroom is right off the sitting area, which isn't ideal, but I wonder...if the bathroom were pushed back to where the laundry room is, there would be a bit of a hall where a washer/dryer stack could be put into a closet (maybe where the toilet is now) and that would create a little separation (I think - but not sure where the closet would go.) I see the wood-burning stove is missing (although it wasn't easy to tell what that was on the original plan)...but I'm wondering about the possibilities of pushing the sitting area chairs back just a hair and putting a two-sided fireplace on that wall between the sitting area and the den...
    So interesting! Thank you!

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I see the bathroom is right off the sitting area, which isn't ideal

    I agree, I tried to find a solution for that in 2 previous versions, but stairs are only 6'9 and I'm not sure about bath sizes. No stove, but Dens are bigger, so you'll probably find an appropriate place for it.

  • RaMc
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So...back to the drawing board, literally. My husband said, "If we have to spend a bit more to get a house that flows well AND does what we want, then we'll spend a bit more." Looking at it from a new direction, with your comments and advice in mind!