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peace_rose_gw

Siding 101 - input please!

peace_rose
14 years ago

We're building a 15'x23' addition. Everything is framed, windows are almost in, and the Tyvek is on. We're working on getting it roofed while we buy some time to decide upon the exterior siding. We had just assumed we would use cedar shake siding, but then my DH had sticker shock when he went to price it out. Now we're thinking we will do a lap sort of siding that could be painted, and less pricey. We might use the cedar shake-type-siding on the gables only.

I've tried searching the archives here to educate myself on the options. Also went to Home Depot today and priced out the HD brand of wood composite, which I believe is called Harditrim? I saw the 8"x12' HardiPlanks that they carry in stock. The pros of the wood composite seem to be that you can use a regular saw and that it can be mitered on the corners (thus eliminating the need for 1"x4" trim on the corners). The Hardie, concrete blend seems so dang durable though...Any opinions on these?

As for the gables, I understand that James Hardie also has a special order shingle siding that resembles the cedar? In contrast, I called Lowes, and the guy there said they carry 4'x8' sheets of wood composite shake siding. Any thoughts?

Vinyl is out of the question because we need something that can be painted (the rest of the house is painted brick). We're going for a cottage look for our 1945 ranch and are in Denver.

Other random questions I'll toss out there:

- Aesthetically, how wide do you think the siding should be to coordinate with the existing brick? Or should we consider doing a composite Shake for the whole thing?

- Is there anything we can do to add extra insulation on the exterior?

I'm all ears - thanks in advance for your help and insight!

I don't mean to get off track here, so I'll stop now. But here's a photo of our progress:

Comments (14)

  • macv
    14 years ago

    That doesn't look like Tyvek to me unless Lowe's bought it from DuPont. I hope you checked it out to see if it was waterproof - many store brands are not and this is no place to be sloppy.

    It's difficult enough to design a house but offering design advice based on such a vague incomplete description would be pretty much impossible.

    I don't even know what kind of composite siding you are talking about. It's not an exclusive term.

    In general, I like to use shingles with a narrow exposure nest to brick but that might not apply at all to your house.

  • peace_rose
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    When I referred to "wood composite" I guess I was using it as a catch-all term because from what I gather, the big box stores have their Store Brand "wood composite" or "wood fiber" siding in stock. From what I gathered it's also available in both 16' planks (of various widths) and 4'x8' shake siding. But I'm having trouble figuring out whether it's a reliable product or not. I've heard good things about the JamesHardie product, but am not convinced that it's worth the extra effort.

    DH assured me that the sheeting around the house is waterproof. I just didn't know what it's called so I called it Tyvek, like people call tissues Kleenex. Of course if anyone has had a bad experience with the product above please let me know.

  • srercrcr
    14 years ago

    I like the idea of lap siding. I have Hardie and it's great.
    If the "wood composite" is a plasticky/little wood fibers, I would just call that "composites". Wood makes it misleading. Hardie and such are not composites, they are cementious. I would not do corners with some sort of trim. The joint at any mitered corner is gonna move over the years, and keeping it caulked nicely would be a career endeavor.

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • macv
    14 years ago

    A "composite" building product is one that is made of more than one basic material. HardiPlank is made of cement and wood fiber so it is a composite material.

    I don't know what the other material is that you mention. I suspect it is a medium density fiberboard or OSB which are not composites unless they contain plastics like Trex or Andersen Fibrex which is not structurally stiff enough for siding IMHO.

    There are only a few plastic air/weather barriers that are actually waterproof like Tyvek, Typar and WeatherSmart. I have not found a store brand that didn't leak when put over a bucket and filled with water. The ASTM test is for 10 minutes.

    Lowe's "store branded" Housewrap is made for them by Pactiv Building Products. It is actually GreenGuard Classic Wrap which is a cross-woven polypropylene fabric with a perforated plastic coating. It is not in any way the equal of spun-bonded, uncoated, unperforated housewraps like Tyvek, etc. but it is no doubt cheaper. This is not a place to save money on your house.

    It is best to carefully avoid common contractor/store "jargon" and generic names for critical building products (ie the ones that keep water out of your house). Casual unresearched DIY specifications or "common knowledge" can lead to expensive to correct waterproofing problems.

  • jeri
    14 years ago

    Srercrcr  Your house is beautiful. Would you mind sharing your house color with me? I really like it. :-)

  • srercrcr
    14 years ago

    Thanks so much. I don't recall the color, much less the brand. But I can recommend a brand...Pittsburg Paint Manor Hall. It's what all paints should be. I used it on all the white trim.

  • macv
    14 years ago

    Pittsburgh Paints offers an acrylic latex paint called "MANOR HALL" and an one called "MANOR HALL TIMELESS".

    The latter is more expensive but for exterior paint is important to use the paint with the most flexible plasticizers and that increases the cost of good acrylic latex paints.

    Unfortunately, paint companies frequently change their formulations to meet economic and supply conditions so you will find little agreement about what paint is best so one should always use the best paint offered by a company for exterior use.

  • peace_rose
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I found an article that helped clarify the difference between different types of engineered siding:

    Here is a link that might be useful: Engineered Wood Siding

  • srercrcr
    14 years ago

    Good article. I read all I needed to know...."Fiber cement siding also costs about half as much as real wood, is virtually maintenance-free, will hold paint three times as long as real wood, and is easy to clean. With strong warranties for durability (50 years), homeowners can be assured that little additional money will go into maintaining the siding."

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • macv
    14 years ago

    "Fiber cement ... will hold paint three times as long as real wood"

    Bob Villa's website is essentially a condensed version of various manufacturer's press releases.

    In time-honored tradition, fiber cement manufacturers justify such claims by using the best case for their product and the worst case for their competition. Paint does last longer on fiber-cement but if installed poorly (a common problem) it will need to be repainted about as often as well installed wood siding.

    Building a house is not like shopping at Walmart; how a material is installed is often as important as what is installed.

  • srercrcr
    14 years ago

    My Hardie was painted 13 years ago and still looks good. Better yet, the paint is bonded to the fiber-cement material, you can't even get a fingernail under it.

  • FatHen
    14 years ago

    Be wary of composite siding. If it gets wet it can swell an crumble like 'someone left the cake out in the rain.' When it comes into contact w/the ground, or if it gets damage and the paint no longer helps protect it from rain, etc, it can do this. We had hail in our area last year and every place a hailstone hit it, the next rainfall turned some types of composite siding to mush. Thankfully it wasn't my problem, but it was the problem of many around here. And a lot of new homes have this type of siding right down to the ground where it will soak up moisture similarly.

  • macv
    14 years ago

    You are probably referring to siding made of treated OSB with a water resistant surface lamination (like SmartSide from LP) which is an "engineered" siding because it is made of wood strands that are glued together. Unfortunately, the manufacturers will call these materials anything that helps sales and the use of the term, "composite", is apparently an attempt to ride the coat tail of composite materials like fiber-cement siding. This stuff is in no way similar to fiber-cement and probably has the shortest life and requires the most maintenance of all the materials you could put on your house. It's only advantage is that it is cheap.