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chisco34_gw

Build up the lot or deeper foundation in Texas

chisco34
10 years ago

We are looking for some additional thoughts on our foundation prep. Our total foundation size is 3,600 sf. The slope from front right to back left is 4'. We are starting with a 12" foundation on front right, which means back left of the slab will be 5' high.

We have two options and will bid them out this week when our foundation plan comes back from the engineer. What are the thoughts on either option?

a. Bring in base/fill dirt to level out the building area. Foundation would then be 12" all the way across. This would require fill materials and labor.

b. Not leveling with base, and going with a deep foundation on the back left. This will require additional concrete, which is going for about $82 a cubic yard right now.

Appreciate any insight! We are essentially open to both options pending price and longterm quality of the slab.

Comments (17)

  • virgilcarter
    10 years ago

    It's almost impossible to give an intelligent answer without seeing the site plan, floor plan and perspectives or elevations of the front, side and rear.

    There is no universal answer. And it's not simply a dollar and cents answer since you and your neighbors will have to live with the aesthetic effects of your decision. And your resale value will be impacted as well.

    In my opinion, one of the primary goals of a well designed house is for it to sit well on the land and to draw it's design from the land, views and climate where the house will be located. Hopefully you have done this with your house design, which should give you the answer you seek.

    Good luck on your project.

  • User
    10 years ago

    You may not be able to build up the lot as it will increase the amount of runoff that impacts your neighbors. Since your lot is sloped, you will need to have a drainage plan in place to address that issue no matter what you do. Talk with the engineer doing those plans before you make any decisions.

  • ibewye
    10 years ago

    Whoa. Went through an almost identical situation on my new home we just started a few weeks ago. Here's what I learned and I'll show you the results.

    Our original plans were to also sit flat on land with 9' poured walls, we never wanted a walk out basement but because of our land but I did opt for a small 4' opening for backyard basement access using concrete retaining walls to offset the elevation change between driveway and house, similar to the tunnels teams use in athletic stadiums. A combination of minor things led to us having to modify our plans on the fly-The grade where the septic system had to be placed required house to be moved up into a slightly steeper part of the land, we planned on digging down a little further but them excavator said the ground was getting to really wet and soft and advised us to not to go any deeper to avoid foundation problems. So it was it is, what can we do?

    First thing I noticed was how much concrete was going to be exposed if I kept foundation as planned. I decided to go with a short 4' concrete wall along back and then building the rest of the wall with wood giving me enough height to install some windows and allow for daylight in the basement.

    The next challenge was to deal with the sloped side of the house, I decided to step down the concrete walls gradually and use wood wall to make up difference. Installed some smaller windows to break up the exterior and allow more daylight in basement. The picture I included is how everything turned out my front porch (on high sjde ) will still sit about 12" above ground but my back porch will have to have some steps to down into yard.

    Money wise it's extremely pricey to level off an area with that much slope and still end up with a backyard that isn't the backside of a giant hump. I actually ended up saving roughly $4k by adjusting the concrete to the slope and building the difference in wood.

    In the end I'm happy with the result. It's different than I had envisioned but that doesn't make it a bad thing, you just have to be creative to suit your needs. Best of luck with either decision and let me know if I can help.

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago

    As far as cost all you can do is wait to get the design back from the engineer and price each option. I would assume that an engineer's design would be good either way.

    I guess other than price the only other considerations are aesthetics and function.

    for example: A flat area may be easier to mow and make a better play area, a slope may be more aesthetically pleasing.

  • chisco34
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thank you for the responses. I realize it is helpful to add more info on the project, but I guess I was looking for more general answers. We are building on 3.81 acres. The right side is the high side and the left side is the low side and is partially in a flood plain. We have had a hydrology study performed and the engineer will submit the LOMA to FEMA soon. We won't affect any neighbor to the left because the closest neighbor is above the other side of the flood plain.

    Ibewye, I think you made a great choice! Aesthetically it looks good and was cheaper to boot!

    My thinking is that if the cost for either option is about the same AND the aesthetics aren't an issue, is one option better than the other? I would like to build it up, but my concern is shifting and cracking over time. I can't stand lots of foundation showing, but if we went that route we will likely fill it in on the low side and put a small retaining wall to the far left between the house and the flood plain.

  • chisco34
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    First floor

    Our lot is 380 feet across the front, and we will build in right corner in a space that's about 125x100.

  • LOTO
    10 years ago

    We built this year and are on 30 acres and the most flat spot was right in the middle. Where we wanted the house the land sloped 4' from the front to the rear corner. We excavated a 4' deep hole and have a 4' crawlspace and poured a concrete floor in it for storage and also to help control humidity/moisture in the crawl. There are no vents in the concrete foundation walls and our crawl is conditioned meaning it is heated/cooled and we have closed cell foam on the rim joists and on the interior of the concrete foundation walls. We have geothermal HVAC and our August bill (HOT) was under $200.00 and our home is almost 3,000 square feet.

    All the contractors loved the concrete crawl and the plumbers, HVAC, and electricians gave us a break on labor due to the easy access. The extra dirt from digging the foundation was place around the home and we now have a relatively flat yard which was important to us.
    We did NOT want a full basement in our home as we have had several and wanted everything on one level.

  • chisco34
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    LOTO, thank you SO much for the pics. I wouldn't have understood, but that makes perfect sense! How is the floor noise? Does it sound like walking on a two story? In Texas, we don't deal much with basements or crawl spaces so it's not something we really consider as options. Seems as though the crawl space could work really nicely.

  • virgilcarter
    10 years ago

    The most appropriate design for a sloping lot is one which has changing levels which follow the slope of the land. Placing a "flat" plan on a sloping lot creates lots of issues, both economic and aesthetic. It's a "forced" fit!

    From an energy conservation standpoint, a crawl space can be problematic unless properly sealed and insulated, which is often difficult and costly. Crawl spaces also have the potential for other problems such as water, mold and critters.

    Of course, with enough technology and money anything can be done, as the photos above demonstrate.

    With a nearly 4 acre site, is there somewhere on the site that is more logical for a "flat" plan? Or is there the possibility for a plan more suited to the location you have selected?

    Good luck on your project!

  • LOTO
    10 years ago

    chisco34....We have a lot of hardwood floors and there is a bit of noise on that flooring but that is normal. Many people say that a wood floor/subfloor is much more comfortable to walk on than a concrete/slab foundation even with carpet on either.
    The crawl space is great to put your HVAC in and center it under your home so the duct runs aren't excessive...our home stays almost the same temperature in every room.
    I was considering the dirt floor in the crawl and the "encapsulating" the floor and joist supports but it cost me less to pour the concrete floor.

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago

    I would have to assume that if the engineer says that building on top of fill will work than they are probably correct. (as long as it is done to specification)

  • ibewye
    10 years ago

    I'm in the northeast and its seems hard to imagine having a home without a basement. Can I ask why most homes out there (Texas) don't put in a basement? Is it strictly the cost factor? I would think given the stable cool temp of the ground it would be great to have in warmer climate. Plus not only is the extra storage space great but its a DIY-ers dream, man-caves and workshops are awesome. Not to mention the ability to finish for living space in the future.

    I would suggest that if you are gonna take the plunge, skip a crawl space and go full basement. Crawl spaces are for the most part useless, I could see how trades would love the crawl space when your used to having no open space at all, but being hunched over or laying on your back while your trying to work is certainly a step back from a full basement.

    Hey LOLO I have a quick question. I noticed in your picture that your joists were not supported with joist hangers, is that a standard practice in your area and not required by code? I only ask because our local code inspector me mentioned to me that every nail hole on our joist hangers should have a nail in it and it caught my eye in your picture.

  • LOTO
    10 years ago

    IBEWYE....the only place I had to use joist hangers was on my crawlspace opening and I just didn't have them on yet when the photo was taken.

    I purchased a couple of mechanic creepers that had seats about 18" high and a round tool tray underneath for working in the crawl and you could move very easily and work off of the creepers too.

    The crawl space design that we used might not be cost effective for some people/areas but it wasn't that much more to pour the concrete floor in the total cost of our project....after living in 6,000 square feet on 4 levels we just didn't want a basement or a sloped lot.

  • energy_rater_la
    10 years ago

    no basements in my part of La.
    or it would be called indoor swimming pool.

    OP have you thought about turtlebacking
    your lot.
    build up dirt where foundation will be
    poured with slope to the yard?
    flood plain would point me in this direction.

    driving around locally after heavy rains
    it is easy to see who turtlebacked their
    lots and who needs sandbags.

    best of luck.

  • texas_cajun
    10 years ago

    Where in Texas are you that a basement is a viable option? We are in Houston and like south Louisiana, the water intrusion issues are huge- we did the opposite and are up about 3 ft. on a pier and beam because Houston has such high flood potential. Another of our builder's clients (from the northeast incidentally) insisted on a basement and it added $150,000 to the cost of the home and it is only about 400 square feet (footprint of the house is about 2800). Their water pump system is impressive, but that is some expensive square footage because I doubt they'll get any value bump out of it- people who are from around here arent used to basements and any underground space is probably going to be seen as a maintenance liability. It flooded twice during unexpected rain before their drain systems were complete (tropical systems come in from the Gulf in summer). I imagine it will be a constant battle.

  • ChrisStewart
    10 years ago

    As far as I know the OP is using a slab and not a crawl space -(another poster was simply showing their crawl space foundation)

    Many areas in Texas also have very expansive soil but this could probably be engineered for. I think that often the choice of foundation systems is based on local tradition as much as anything.